didn't pursue charges, doesn't that open them up to investigations of corruption bythe FBI? That whole situation and culture is just disgusting. If a retired offenseive coordinator could command so much power, it makes you even sicker to think what could have happened if a man like Joe Pa had been inclined to the evil ways of Sandusky.
O.T. Associated Press Investigation Into Sandusky Is Released. They Knew.....They All Knew
Hopefully. If anyone in a position of real power (police, prosecutor's office) knew, I hope they go all end of Shawshank Redemption on them.
If Paterno knew and used his influence to cover the case up, hopefully there can be some type of civil liability for victims after the reports he heard and ignored.
shhhh spoiler alert...
A newspaper article is different from a court ruling. Maybe it would read better if I had said "if they can prove..."?
I believe he was referring to the end of Shawshank Redemption reference. I still have not seen that movie.
Seriously though, brilliant movie. I think IMDB or Rotten Tomato's has it ranked as the second best movie ever, and it lives up to that, IMO.
I've seen a lot of movies, and it is easily, hands down my favorite. The last scene is just the perfect ending.
It is a great film, but best or near it? Wow!
What about Godfather 1 & 2 and Step Brothers?
I'd put it in my top five, but I can never decide which order those five should be in: Shawshank Redemption, Star Wars IV: A New Hope, Requiem for a Dream, Godfather I, The Departed. Honorable mention to Casino and Deer Hunter.
Stars Wars over Empire? Suprised at that. I thought Empire was the universal choice of the 6. So I commend your orginality.
Requiem is amazing, but just too dark for me. I saw it and literally felt ill after.Dont know if I could watch it again by choice. Aronofsky is a hell of a director.
No Godfather II though?
I am impressed you can narrow it down, dont know if i could do just 5.
Empire Strikes Back scared the shit out of me when I was a little kid, the first time I watched it. I'm still not sure why, but it is what it is at this point. Godfather II is up there, but I liked the first one better, and I agree about Requiem, but when the mood hits I love seeing it.
Because you're heroes get their ass kicked for 2 hours, ending with one getting his hand violently chopped off, and the other turned into an ice cube. And, oh, yeah, the most evil son of a bitch in the galaxy (as far as we knew then...and SPOILERS) is YOUR DAD. There's a concept for a little kid.
I like GF 1 just because I like Brando in the movies a little more than DeNiro. Both great.
Don't forget Saving Private Ryan. Also, Bring It On was both an excellent piece of artistry, as well as a cultural phenomenon. Any list would be incomplete without the two of them.
(Paraphrasing) I'd like to think the last thing that went through Warden Norton's brain . . .
I think the statute of limitations is up on spoiler alerts for Shawshank.
There are high school seniors younger than that movie.
That is all that can be really said about this situation. I pray that Michigan never has anything near this bad happen to it, and I hope that the coaches stand up for what is right before anything else. Well lets not think about that. Still is really sad for those kids and the football players who had nothing to do with the choices that the administration made.
This reminds me of something out of a sociological horro movie...
Agreed, very Michael Crichton-esque.
This is going to get really ugly. Over the weekend I was at a conference with some CiC folks (academic arm of the B1G+UChicago). A number of folks told me about 1/3 of the CiC was ready to kick PSU out and that they were busy rallying support for their cause. No one would say which schools were making the push, but it was implied the Presidents are convinced everyone at PSU knew about this and are furious.
One person said apparently most of the B1G Presidents knew about this (hence why no one ever tried to lure Sandusky out of retirement to coach). However PSU had made it sound like they'd retired the guy and were just keeping him on ice until the DA charged him. When the other Presidents found out he still had his keys to the showers and the like, a number of them blew their lid.
It's all hersey but at the conference I didn't hear anyone say anything good about PSU. Basically that letter the CiC sent is not some idle threat, as most of the non PSU folks seem to want a pound of PSU's flesh.
I have also heard that the concept of PSU being removed from the Big 10 is not as far-fetched as originally thought. The other sleepting giant in the room is the NCAA. The article implies that they have also been watching the events unfold closely and are preparing to take very direct and significant action if the allegations of a wide-spread campus cover up are true.
I have to say; I am so unsurprised by all of this. Not because I am terribly smart or well informed about Penn State because I am not. But rather because of the obvious; we all know how close football coaching staffs are; they are guys who, during the season, live and work together 20 hours a day. There can't be any big secrets. And there was never anything to explain Sandusky's abrupt departure from the staff, with no other job, when he had been regarded by many as a possible heir to Paterno.
It's possible but I don't think so. They deserve it but don't think the NCAA would do it.
Having said that at a minimum there has to be a complete removal of all football related personnel - including staff - everyone goes - no faces remain. PSU should want that anyway but who knows if they actually get any of this even now.
Also, and this may sound strange, but the building(s) where any of this occurred will have to be removed - razed and carted away. Who the hell would want to walk through them? Can you imagine showing those locker room/shower facilities to a recruit and parents?
And, the statue. Someone should have the good sense and decency to get rid of that before next term begins.
About the razing. I've thought that the Carthage treatment would be the only appropriate action PSU could take with regard to the existing football buildings.
From a purely moral perspective, I feel as though that if there were a CFB situation that deserved the death penalty, this is it. I doubt the NCAA will do it because of all the $$$ that PSU can bring in long term.
I do agree with the CiC members who are pushing to get PSU removed from the B1G. The major problem is who do you replace them with? Pitt is a good school with great football history, but very little interaction with the B1G in its prior history.
One person said apparently most of the B1G Presidents knew about this (hence why no one ever tried to lure Sandusky out of retirement to coach).
"Knew" is a fuzzy concept in situations like this.
There were a couple of attempts to lure Sandusky out of retirement (Maryland, Virginia) but they were both aborted abruptly with odd-sounding reasons like "we're not sure he's ready to commit fully to coaching" and "he's spending so much time on his charity"--the same reasons PSU gave for his retirement in the first place.
I have the impression that it was known that there was something out there that made him unhireable, and the two times someone didn't know they were quickly informed. That doesn't necessarily mean they knew precisely what that something was; they may have decided not to inquire further.
let them. IF THIS IS TRUE, fuck psu. Kick them out of the B1G and give them the death penalty. Take away their wins too.
As a father, I am apalled that "men" allowed this to happen. I've always had tremendous respect for Penn State as an institution, but after this? Fuck them.
unbelievable doesn't even begin to cover it.
With the ongoing investigations now by both the NCAA and the B1G, I'm not sure there is any way that PSU is going to escape some severe punishments in reagrds to athletics. I think the "death penalty" is certainly not out of the question. What's really unfortunate ts that, any sort of punishment to the athletic program does nothing to right the wrongs.
I initially thought that the NCAA was out of its depth to try to deal with this situation and that it was better left to the DA. I now think that PSU football should get the death penalty. A message needs to be sent that you don't get to have your football team if you're going to behave like this.
Well, if PSU is thrown out of the conference, we wouldn't need that championship game.
Please don't try to put a silver lining on this. I know, this is a Michigan football site (with sides of basketball and hockey), and almost everything we talk about here can be turned around in terms of how it helps football or recruiting or whatever. However, the wrongdoings in this case far transcend football, and to dampen what has been done by comparing it to how it affects a game is purely wrong against those who have fallen victim to these terrible actions.
Totally agree that this case is about kids and a community first. Football is a distant second. But while the criminal proceedings play out, it's still reasonable to also inquire whether NCAA or B1G statutes have been violated, particularly around the area of Institutional Control.
Personally, I don't see PSU Football surviving this "intact." As an Institution, the article fairly points out that they essentially were accessories. While LOIC surely wasn't designed for THIS kind of violation, it still qualifies under the literal interpretation of the rule.
I have to believe a "significant" NCAA action will be forthcoming.
The theories I've heard mostly have us booting PSU rather quickly and inviting Missouri in (figuring they'd drop their move to the SEC, al la TCU dropping its move to the Big East). It seems the academics really wanted Missouri as an expansion target. The ADs get more of the Saint Louis market to placate them.
Also PSU's football program is likely going to be toast for awhile after all the dust settles. So Mizzou may actually be a stronger team. Regardless of what the NCAA does to PSU, their football brand is going to be radioactive (note how they ended the season ranked, have massive fanbase that travels and still just barely avoided the Motor City Bowl).
So we likely keep the championship game. The only change would be a chance to shuffle divisions and get in the same one as tOSU.
I don't understand why 'expanding into Missouri' could possibly matter from an academic standpoint. I get that logic - even though it's often overstated - in terms of television markets for football, and even for recruiting.
But why would the Big Ten be interested in taking on a thoroughly mediocre school just because it's in a state that's currently outside the geographic footprint of the conference? Are we that excited to potentialy get more applicants from the state of Missouri?
I think he was saying the AD's want to expand into St. Louis, and the academics want the University of Missouri. In terms of research funding (and assuming that the SEC, Pac and ACC members aren't leaving their conferences) Missouri is behind Texas, Cincinnati, Rutgers and USF, but is ahead of everyone else. You can add TAMU and Pitt if targets who haven't made their move quite yet are counted.
I haven't been a fan of adding Mizzou, but if it means taking something the SEC wants, it might be palatable, although I still think Pitt is the best solution, especially if PSU is gone.
We are not going to boot out PSU...
What makes you so sure of that? If the knowledge of this was actually known throughout the administration, then why would the other Big Ten schools choose to keep PSU around as the issue transcends sports. Academic and administrative standing are as big a qualifying factor to being in the Big Ten as athletic prestige.
could be the reason that psu has not contacted any "major" coaches about the vacancy. On XM91 (college football) they hinted that the search committee is waiting for the bomb to exploded. They do not want to hire a coach, coach asks for guaranteed money and the "out" if needed. The committee does not want to take that chance.
There will be a time for sorting these sorts of things out. Now is not that time.
This makes me feel sick. I truly hope that its not true that the police and others knew about it and did nothing.
If everyone knew, then was it really a "culture of silence?"
Also, do people think that JoePa looks less culpable if the police knew but refused to act?
No, not less culpable. My assumption will be that it was his influence that caused them to "not act" since he was the godfather figure in all this.
Joe Paterno could have got the governor of PA on the phone at 3:00 AM if he needed to. We're not talking about your typical private citizen here.
Part of the reason people always loved Joe Pa was because he was humble and didn't throw his considerable weight around. There is a time and a place for it, no doubt, but it sounds like that particular part of his character was too deeply ingrained for him to ever tell anyone what to do like that (aside from his players.)
How much and how often Paterno threw his weight around is very much an open question.
Sorry, but a moral leader steps up and makes sure that kids aren't being raped...Also, I don't think your picture of him as a man who didn't throw a his weight around is at all accurate. He was the de facto mayor of Happy Valley.
Well, I've never been a Penn State follower nor lived in Happy Valley or Pennsylvania. But I've always thought that that de factor mayor status is because of what people would've done for him, not because of what he actively made them do.
My impression is that he threw his weight around quite a bit. Joe Paterno did a great deal of good in his life, don't get me wrong, but he also had a tremendous amount of power in Happy Valley...My grandfather went to PSU in the pre-Paterno days. PSU was a largely-unknown agricultural school at the time. Paterno changed that. He didn't just put PSU football on the map - he put the whole school on the map, sometimes by donating a great deal of his own money. He wasn't above cultivating worldy power, though, and wasn't a saint. He had a great deal of control over what happened in Happy Valley when he wanted it, something he often used to protect his team and legacy.
I think the record shows that Paterno has always been willing to throw his weight around, albeit in his Joe way. He muscled the administration for years. He demanded that he, and not anyone else, by the arbiter of disciple for scofflaw football players. Joe just seems to be one of those guys who uses the aw-shucks effect to great effect.
Paterno was really reluctant to play the bigshot card when he told Graham Spanier that he'd withhold any future donations to the school if he didn't fire Vicky Triponey - the university standards and conduct officer who kept trying to discipline football players. (Link)
Such an unassuming man. What a legend.
That is such bullshit, I can't believe people are still holding on to paterno the saint myths.
Ever watch an interview where Paterno gets asked a question he doesn't like? I mean, he wasn't exactly an arrogant guy or anything like that...but I wouldn't exactly call him humble either. He made the football program seemingly larger than life, which to me is the opposite of humility.
Penn State football and Joe Paterno have been synonymous for decades. It's no accident that the leading PSU football blog is named "Black Shoe Dialogs" after Joe's constant footwear. In those press conferences you mention, one can see that Joe takes any criticism of the program, whether explicit or inferred, very personally.
It isn't that everyone "knew" exactly what Sandusky was doing. It is that many knew something was wrong, and knew better than to ask too many questions. There was indeed a culture of silence in the AD, the University Admin, PSU, & Happy Valley.
The easy analogy is the towns in Nazi Germany holding concentration camps nearby. The guards and other employees knew directly what was going on. They didn't talk about it much, if at all, but spouses and others had a good idea. They all perpetuated a culture of silence.
I'm afraid the death penalty is quite possibly appropriate. The counter charge will be made that the NCAA is unfairly punishing students and a school who weren't responsible. But to the degree that the administration hid and covered this up, all of Penn State is responsible.
There is one thing in the article that I have been thinking about more, and that is how responsible someone is once they have handed matters over to authorities. Both Paterno and McCreary come to mind. I believe that it was appropriate for JoePa to go. I also believe that Sandusky should have had zero access to the athletic campus, and feel that JoePa could have done something about this.
However, I also believe that it is questionable to say either JoePa or McCreary should have done more. If I report a crime to the police, it isn't my job (or my place, for the most part,) to continue to pester the police about what they do with the crime. Without going into personal detail, I'm beginning to rethink this. In the future, I may go the extra mile (when reporting something inappropriate) and followup until I know what action the governing body has taken. I have had to remove someone from a professional position in the past, and report actions to the adjudicatory body. As I think about this, I might choose to followup to know exactly what action was taken, or why action wasn't taken.
I think you raise a good point about what one's responsibility is after handing something over to the authorities. However, Paterno was in a unique position of great power at PSU. I see this as being like a situation in which the president (any president - I'm not making a partisan point) says, "The FBI did what? Well, what do you want from me? It's the FBI." No, sir, you're the president, and the buck stops with you.
As i read the story I too thought of the Nazi's and how entire groups of people are able to "look the other way" in horrific situations when everyone around them are looking the other way as well. Being one of the most vocal protagonists against McQuerry it does begin to help me understand why he didn't act more forecfully - he already knew.
for these people to be more than just ordinary men or ordinary people. They had an opportunity to do the "right thing" and make certain that the "right thing" was done and followed up on by raising a ruckus to the high heavens. Joe Pa let his university and those who respected him and himself down when he did not rise to this occassion and make sure that this was all followed up and handled appropriately. If Jerry Sanduskey truly is your friend, the best thing you could have done for him was to get him help and get him away from temptation back in 1998.
Similar to your Nazi analogy, who is my brother's keeper? I am, and I am responsible to make sure that my brother is properly protected both from himself (reporting Sandusky to put an end to this so he might get treatment) and to protect others from him (at least one of those whom he abused has moved on to abuse others, as I recall from all these stories). Who will stand up and say No, that is not right, that is not how we do things at PSU?
People are always saying it is not their job, but, my friend, it is our job. Those of us who are college graduates and went to higher class learning institutions (like Michigan) where our society has invested much time and money and capital must demand more and expect more from ourselves than we do others. We must set the standard under noblesse oblige.
Is messed up? When you compare it to the Nazi's and it's not an internet hype thread ender, but accurate.
How can this be sorted out in a way that makes sense and doesn't punish the kids? Really there's the problem, does this warrant the death penalty? Yes-because its institutional complacency about children who are in an IDLH and a long-term health situation.* It is also complacency and tacit approval of criminal activity against children. But is there any way the the players deserve this? No.
What the NCAA should do is allow these kids out of their committments NOW. Give them an extra year of eligibilty if its needed and ring the death knell for PSU football before more careers are lost and more hardship is created for the next round of recruits. The inability to react is doing more harm than good at this point.
*To me child sexual abuse is an immediately dangerous to life and health situation. It may not happen right away but it can be a bomb that just needs the right fuse to ignite, even decades later.
That is an excellent suggestion. If the NCAA truly wants to make a statement without punishing the innocents then simply waive the current transfer requirements for PSU players. That way no one can claim they were unduly punished - if the choose to stay that is their choice and they have to accept the consequences of that decision.
SMU Football, 1987 :
As a result of the "death penalty," a full release was granted to every player on the team, allowing them to transfer to another school without losing any eligibility; most immediately announced they were considering going elsewhere.
I swear if I hear one more comment about feeling sorry for students being unfairly punished by the NCAA I may blow a gasket. They chose to attend this institution and it turned out to have an obscenely corrupt football program run by a czar who was above question by anyone, including apparently law enforcement. Their school is responsible, not the NCAA. They can still stay and get their education, or transfer. Same with the players - give them the right to transfer without penalty.
How many of them had the unmitigated gall to run out and riot in protest the night their exalted icon was fired? Enough already - their beloved football program is actually a cesspool and the whole thing makes me sick. If you have to feel sorry for someone make it the victims whose lives have been literally destroyed by this monster and the system that enabled him.
I'm shocked George Dohrmann's name wasn't attached to that.
Here is a piece from the State College newspaper that states hat the PSU police chief, a neighbor of Sandusky, ordered the case closed in 1998.
The personal connection between the chief and the architect of “Linebacker U” now has lawyers for Sandusky’s alleged victims questioning what role those ties may have played in closing the 1998 investigation, which they argue was a missed opportunity to stop Sandusky from assaulting more children.
Is there very much that's new in there? Did I miss anything? We already knew that Penn State gave the guy a ton of privileges after his retirement, let him stay around, people like Curley and Schwarz and the janitors supposedly knew of all the allegations.....the only new thing I saw was the county's refusal to do anything. I don't get why the county claims that the existence of the charity prevented them from taking any action. Sounds like a very stretchy rationalization.
I don't know if you could say anything was new necessarily but certainly it represents a confirmation of a lot disparate speculations on who knew what and when did they know it.
I dunno, I thought it was a lot more concrete than speculation that Sandusky had all these privileges and access that were OK'ed by a lot of people high up in the university hierarchy. I assumed that was well-known already. What's new to me is the behind-the-scenes legal stuff on the part of the investigators (county, police), that's where I see what you mean by confirmation of speculation.
Also new to me how was unusual it was for Sandusky to get some of those privileges in retirement. He was practically the only assistant professor to do so. I imagine the explanation will be that he was rewarded for his length of employment and that academics pretty much never remain assistant profs for 30 years there.
Schultz didn't even read the 1998 reports.
Sandusky brought a kid to a PSU football game as late as 2005. He also allegedly assaulted a kide at a PSU football facility in 2004 - two years after the McQueary incident.
If this is true looks like a lot of jobs will be opening up in Happy Valley.
the new way sports is, where everything is a media sensation, it can be good sometimes. The Good Ol' Boys Network (still exhibited in such institutions as Penn State), which, in the past, included most teams out there, preferred to handle everything internally and avoid disgracing the program at all costs. So in cases where bad stuff went down, you didn't hear about it. I think there are the same number of scandals in college sports as always, it's just now the perps are being brought to justice.
that guy. In all of this the people that suffer the most are the kids some of whom are adults now. May God give them peace
I always say that the measure of a country/person/government/institution should be based how they treat the most vulnerable of its contituents, usually children and the aged. My friends PSU and certainly other governmental/social agencys who knew certainly failed that test.
Normally, I do not subscribe to the notion that the cover up is greater than the crime. In this case however I make the exception because the silence or the refusal to treat this man like the criminal he is perpetuated more assaults on children. The other sad part is that Sandusky is still allowed to walk the streets, He is paraded on television in interviews to make a buck for the media outlets. He is innocent until proven gulity by a jury of his peers but that innocence is not license to have an opportunity to be paraded in front of a camera and for media outlets to make a buck. God this is sickening.
If/When all of this is adjudicated PSUs fate should be administratively equal to that of Mr. Sandusky's fate. This is the opportunity to set precedent, this is the opportunity to say to any other institution that there is no tolerance for such institutional behavior. This is an opportunity to say to other instiutions of higher learning that people will be protected and the villan will be punished. Many other college campus police, adminsitrators ect. are very very affraid right now. Because of how they have handled date rape, and other campus sexual assault cases. PSU's treatment will say to other colleges and institutions that it is either okay to continue to cover up or it is time to change and truely protect the innocent regardless how it looks to the outside world, reputation be damned.
Anyone else think that the involvement of senior non-athletic administrators in all of this might really complicate their accreditation? IIRC, Auburn got put on probation for, among other things, the appearance that their president didn't have ultimate authority ofver the athletic department. If the football program's reputation was more important to senior university officials than prevention of violent crimes on campus, and proper federal crime reporting (a big, separate issue), it seems to me they could be in even more trouble than the NCAA or CiC can bring.
but that's a very good question. Given the Sandusky affair and the other things in the story about special treatment for the football program--Paterno could dictate policy for student affairs among other things--I think there's a valid argument for probation.
If they did lose their accreditation, or if it was placed on probation, would that force the B1G's hand in terms of kicking them out? Given the apparent fight over Nebraska's academic standards, I can't imagine the other schools would be happy to have an unaccredited institution.
Most involved seem to be in cover-my-ass mode now. Before they were trying to protect the university and football program, and in doing so, they enabled Sandusky to continue his horrific behavior.Not only was he not prosecuted, but he kept his reputation and keys to the locker room so he could continue raping children unencumbered. When we think of coverups, we usually think of some past crime that remains hidden; here, we have not only that, but a continuation of crimes over and over again.
A quote from BSD on this article...
In this article published this morning Sports Illustrated repackages the common knowledge of what has been known for a month and builds it into an indictment of Penn State building thin and circumstantial bits of data into the worst case scenario.
Bury head in sand much?
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...the article, not the post.
The media won't let go of this, and all they are doing by shoving this down America's throats is making the victims, if there are any who actually were abused, live their abuse over and over every day, with pretty much no way to get away from it.
Nobody wants to believe the worst about a trusted friend or collegue, and abusers don't shout their crimes from the rooftops. The reason most abusers get away with it for so long is that they are clever at hiding their crimes and intimidating their victims.
Most people really don't know that their friends are closet criminals until it comes out into the open. At first, they are surprised. Then, in retrospect, they see "signs" they should have noticed. The next step is to "realize" that they were "making excuses" or "enabling" the behavior, when in fact all they were doing was refusing to believe the worst about a freind.
If it turns out that the alleged crimes actually were committed and that someone helped cover them up, knowing that multiple crimes were committed, I will share in the outrage-fest. Until then, I don't think it is possible to say anyone really knew anything beyond a reasonable doubt. Ultimately, a person can't be expected to have retrospect in realtime.
Mike McQueary was a PSU QB and then, in 2002, a grad assistant. He either lied to a grand jury for no apparent reason or went to Paterno and told him what he saw with his own eyes. Do you know how many child abuse cases have witnesses other than the victim? Not many. Here, you have a first-hand account from someone whom Paterno had known for more than five years and whom Paterno trusted to be both a QB and coach of his football team. No retrospect was needed.
With all the class action lawsuits, fines, crimes, and sactions, PSU is in risk of facing a class action lawsuit that could financial ruin to the school. PSU could decide to pull a University of Chicago and eliminate the football program all together.
IMO is that the campus police were aware of what was going on. The cops are supposed to be the people you go to, to stop this sort of thing.
If McQuery didn't go to the cops maybe its because he was told by the upper-ups that "it's being handled."
The cops claim they dont have a record of McQ. going to them; maybe they simply didn't file the report.
Who knows at this point. But all this stuff is the tip of the iceberg.
I'm still against shutting down the football program. To my knowledge none of the players there had any knowledge of what was going on, besides maybe McQuery. Taking away scholarships from current players isn't going to fix anything.
I told people that I'd begin my investigation with the local police department and work from there. I don't claim any knowlege or claim to be prescient, but there did not seem to be any way all of this could have taken place without the local authorities knowing and doing nothing, for whatever reason. It was also the only thing that made sense of McQueary's actions, to my way of thinking. You can't just happen across Happy Valley, you are either lost, or you intended to be there. It is just too small an area, and totally dominated by a once-proud institution for anything else to make sense.
I mentioned the missing DA a couple of times to friends, and was met with the "well, he was investigating drugs" argument. Yeah, like no DAs in Detroit, or New York or Chicago or Laredo have ever investigated drugs. How many are we missing? I'll admit to being cynical, but coincidence is seldom happenstance.
It is so disappointing to see something like this happen inside college football. I know that every coach involved has talked about moral choices, doing the right thing, being accountable, and any number of other life-choices to the players. To know that they failed leaves me feeling near-ill. While I suspected that the administration and community had to have some knowledge, knowing for certain (as it seems) that the academic side of things continued the cover-up is just beyond the pale. I'll admit to being reactionary, but once the facts are in place, I would be happy to see a few University Presidents leading a charge within the Big 10, at the very least in terms of competing with the football program.
seem, that people can be mistaken, and that other people would profit from a bad situation. Until all the facts have played out, I (or we) are just as guilty of prejudging the situation. I still suspect there is more to this story, but check this article out.
McQueary has apparently made a bad witness of himself a couple of times over. I'm still inclined to believe that he told the truth when he was talking to the police/under oath, as that was when he had something to lose by lying, but this does complicate things, as you say.
I disagree, kind of - let's say Dranov is telling the truth about what McQueary told him.....but McQueary told the truth to the grand jury when he said he witnessed a graphic sex act.
In other words, he witnessed everything but told other people (Dranov) less. Now we get to the grand jury and he tells the grand jury what he saw, and their next question is, "What did you do and whom did you tell?" Yes, there's something to lose if you lie to the grand jury, but now he's got a lot to lose if he tells the truth, too, because no matter what he will never admit to the grand jury that the entire cover-up began with him. I think that would be mostly on his mind, rather than perjury charges.
At some point, he fucked up. Either back then, or now, or both. I don't even know what to think.
There's very little new information in this report.
First, Sandusky was apparently able to bring boys to PSU facilities as late as 2005. He allegedly assaulted a kid in one in 2004.
Second, Shutlz didn't read the 1998 investigative reports.
be known as pedophile U. I spoke with the HR Manager at my company at the Xmas party. She said that the psu degree has lost value in the market place. She indicated that is was not fair, but it is reality.
There is a perception that this is much bigger than reported. This HR manager would not "take the chance" and hire someone from that time-frame only to find out that the candidate was involved.
What a flipping mess. JoePa covered up multiple rapes. Most of the football program knew about it as well. Now it appears that most of the B1G knew about it.
I hope the DOE pulls the plug and knocks all the buildings down. They can use the proceeds to pay the millions of dollars in counseling for the victims.
God bless the vicitms and may they all receive peace and comfort during the remainder of their lives.
I don't really understand the relation between a degree from Penn State and the HR Manager? If she thinking that anyone hired from 1983 till today that went there was involved? Does this include peopple that had nothing to do with football? It is a stretch to castigate a school in which 20K+ people attend at a particular moment when only a relatively few had any involvement, directly or indirectly.
Penn State had better give itself a damning internal investigation on this whole thing. If there's even a hint of withheld information, I can see some almost unimaginable sanctions coming from the Big 10 and the CIC. I'm not sure whether or not any of it falls under NCAA regs or not, but I can see the CIC and Big 10 imposing some serious conditions on any continued association.
Reading between the lines, it appears that some people did nothing with Sandusky because they expected the hammer to come down, and didn't want to interfere. I guess I'm curious if it is appropriate for the CiC / Big 10 to impose sanctions now, or to wait until the findings are completed? (Ohio is somewhat similar . . . when and how do you punish, and do you allow people to play or participate while waiting for findings.)
For the program and Sandusky ....
Can't help but think of Gordon Gee's "I hope Jim doesn't fire me" comment. Looks like this was the overriding problem at PSU. I wonder how many other football powers have this problem?