I do not believe that either potential B1G participant is guaranteed to beat Stanford, if they are the opponent.
I do not believe that either potential B1G participant is guaranteed to beat Stanford, if they are the opponent.
Why neother of them can beat Stanford.
RichRod was a failure here, no doubt about it. But the fans/alums/former players, collectively, never even gave him a fair chance, so it was never all his fault.
I'm happy for RichRod, but karma really is a bitch sometimes. Oh well. We deserve it for the way we treated him.
I don't think karma means what you think it means.
I'd say its karma in the fact that we got rid of him because he was fielding a sub-par product, he wasn't a "Michigan Man" or whatever that means. Michigan collectively treated RichRod like shit, and when we fired him, we went out to get one of "our guys."
Well, now we have our guy, and things haven't been improving much, if at all. Meanwhile, RichRod is somewhere with a fan base that actually accepts him, he just pounded the #6 team in America, and the direction of his program appears to be trending upward. We can't say the same for ours right now.
Maybe it's more under the category of ironic, but karma seemed appropriate as well.
Oregon isn't the 6th best team in the country. No one believes that.
Michigan could beat Oregon 42-16 today? Do you feel we would have a prayer of winning? Arizona dominted that team in much the same way Stanford did.
Listen, I tried drinking some of that same stuff yesterday but it gave me a turrible hangover and the shits.
Karma because he got one decent win? We were going nowhere with RR. Offense tire up shitty teams but was brutal vs teams with a defensive pulse. Defense was embarrassing .... Kinda like the offense now.
Not karma because of how RR is doing. Karma because of how our program is doing.
Most Alums and fans gave RR a chance. I was 100 percent for RR even suffering through 2 losing season. Though I faltered a bit after seeing how the defense just crashed in '10. IMO, he should have been given 2 more years and allowed to hire his DC. I think there were talks with DB about doing this after the OSU game but the major collapse in the bowl game against MSU lead to his firing.
I just hope we don't make the same mistake and give Hoke a 5 year chance. There seems to be a gap in experience players but hopefully in 2 more season this gap will be filled with seniors. 2015 should be an excellent year unless DB dumps the coach again!
Yeah but Mattison wouldn't come here if RR was here
Yeah but Casteel would have from day one if we would have paid the man.
This is patently false. The money wasn't the only thing he was considering. His family was happy at WVU and he had aspirations of one day moving up to Head Coach. Once it was clear that wasn't going to happen and RR had a new job he made the move.
a lot of people say this.
and if it's true, maybe Mattison doesn't love Michigan as much as he should.
Do you not remember the only reason Mattison left Baltimore was to coach under Hoke? We may still have GERG if Rich was still here.
If the athletic department would have backed up the assistant coach money truck earlier. Unless people honestly believe he wasn't coming to Michigan under any circumstances, but yet decided to go to Arizona along with RR.
Of course, that is past history and there is nothing anybody can do about it now.
I agree. Who knows what may have happened if Casteel came with him. I wanted Rod to stay for another year, but it iddn't happen. Time to move on. Hoke won 12 B1G games in two years and beat all three of the big rivals.
Now he has a bit of a gap in depth. 12 scolarship seniors this year and 13 next year. We currently have 39 true and RS Freshmen. I can't express enough how much people need to chill the fuck out about this.
So many of those pining away for what could have been say "well if only we paid Casteel more!" which makes two gross assumptions: (1) That money was the only reason holding Casteel back from the move to Michigan (it was not), (2) that Casteel would have made RR more successful at Michigan (impossible to prove, though obviously there's good reason to believe this).
If not having Casteel was the only thing holding RR back from being successful, what does that say for RR as a head coach? The two aren't joined at the hip. What happens if Casteel gets successful enough at Zone to jump to a head coach position? How does RR fare?
And the rest of this thread....ugggghhhh. Yes, that win over Oregon was very big. But folks acting like RR's team are SO VASTLY superior forget that his record and Michigan's record are identical. RR lost to Washington State. WSU is not that good, and I have no idea why folks think they are that good. They're no better than the Penn State or Nebraska type teams that Michigan has faced and lost to. If you look at the teams Arizona has beaten this year...other than Oregon it's a bunch of nobodies. N Arizona, UNLV, UTSA, Utah, Colorado, Cal. Which win was their best? Utah? Wow, amazing victory there. And even oregon...Stanford exposed them, and Oregon has been much shakier recently than they ever were in previous years.
I'm not saying Arizona isn't better than Michigan right now, but folks here are acting like Zona is the greatest thing since sliced bread when the reality is both teams are 7-4 and closer than you think. Michigan beat ND and Minnesota handily this year...obviously nowhere near the accomplishment of beating Oregon but those wins count for something too, ya know (Minny is 8-3 and only lost to Wisconsin by 13 yesterday...not too shabby).
And we cannot ignore that Arizona is more experienced right now than Michigan. It matters. A lot. As Michigan fans, given the past 5 years, we should know better than most that it matters.
The same year that Brandon hired Hoke, he tripled the salary of the Michigan defensive coordinator. That means Rodriguez gets Casteel, or at least someone he wanted more than GERG. The only way GERG could still be here is if Rodriguez decides to keep him and give him a raise; given his quick firing of Shafer, this is unlikely without him also losing his job.
I like RR and hope he does well...after 3 yrs he has NOTHING to do with the failure of this regime in year 3. Simple as that.
Also, I do like to watch Kadeem Carey run the ball that kid reminds me a lot of Chris Perry.
I think he does still have something to do with it. See the 2010 and 2011 recruiting classes.
Just like how a lot of Carr's late recruiting had a massive impact on RR's lack of success.
If you want to know why your program is struggling, one of the easiest ways to answer that question is to look at 4 recruiting cycles ago. If the class(es) that should be Seniors(and Juniors) is(are) a flaming crater, chances are your program is going to have some issues.
"Michigan Men" undermined recruiting in Rich's second and third years.
The so-called "Michigan Men" are reaping what they sowed.
As opposed to so-called "Michigan Men", there are genuine people with same moniker who know that today's unfortunate situation could be very much different.
You break it, you own it.
Said this numerous times. People on here don't seem to care. Just want their torches and pitchforks.
Everyone is so quick to say ''Arizona has the same record as us'' but guess what? Have we even beat anyone worth a shit in the Hoke era? Hoke's best win is probably Nebraska in 2011. Also Arizona would destroy Michigan right now and I hope to god we don't have to play them in a bowl.
Arizona is starting a sophmore, 3 juniors, and a senior on the o-line. They have 5 senior and 5 junior starters on defense. RichRod did not recruit those guys. Mike Stoops did. And they are basically the same team as they were under Mike Stoops.
Sorry to the RickRod folks, but he was a failure here and won't ever be back. Thank God.
You can't compare those records one to one. The Big 10 is a dogshit compared to the PAC-12 this year. UM also doesn't even have a win over a top 25 team.
You are right on your second point though, it is past history, and RR was not succesful here. It is still disgenous to try and compare records when one team is clearly playing in the better conference though.
form of argument.
Arizona lost to Washington State who is worse then every team that Michigan has lost to.
Auburn 31 WSU 24
NW 44 Cal 30
Oregon 59 Virginia 10
UCLA 41 Nebraska 21
USC 35 Boston College 7
Washington 34 Illinois 24
Oregon 59 Tennessee 14
Ohio State 52 Cal 34
ASU 32 Wisconsin 30
ND 37 ASU 34
SEC > Big 12 = Pac 12 > ACC >> Big 10
Auburn 6-1 WSU 4-4
NW 0-7 Cal 0-8
Oregon 6-2 Virginia 0-7
UCLA 5-2 Nebraska 5-2
USC 5-2 BC 4-3
Washington 3-4 Illinois 1-6
Oregon 6-2 Tennessee 1-5
Ohio State 7-0 Cal 0-7
ASU 6-1 Wisconsin 6-1
ASU 6-1 ND (overall 8-3)
Auburn > WSU, Oregon > Virginia, Tennessee, OSU > Cal should all be gimmes.
UCLA > Nebraska, USC > BC, and ASU > Wisconsin, NW > Cal should have all be fairly even.
Washington slight favorites over Illinois.
Up until a couple of weeks ago, there were plenty of people arguing that top-to-bottom the PAC 12 > SEC this season.
Using FEI, the average rankings of conference teams:
Pac 12 36.5
Big 12 44
Big 10 49.83
assuming you were comparing the Pac 10 to the Big Ten. B10 has 3 good teams--period--OSU, MSU and Wisconsin. The Pac 10 has 5-6 teams that would beat everyone else in the B10. Let's see how the Rose Bowl goes.
ND was ranked this year when we beat them and somehow scored 41 points. We always beat them though. That's why they stopped playing us.
Oregon was too focused on the Hyundai Sun Bowl to carry out their superior game plan.
Let's not let this happen again. Everyone stay positive and patient. Hoke is going to get us there just like RR was before we pulled the rug from him.
On a side note. Hey Section 1 give me a call and we'll talk about how we'd be undefeated and averaging 50 a game in this rum dum league heading into this monster showdown with OSU. We can talk about how great we would be right now and how much shit we took from this board for sticking with RR until he was out the door singing Josh songs.
His defense and special teams were the worst UM has ever had. Certainly the offense was good, but it continuously failed in big games.
Question Hoke all you want, but RR still did a horrible job here even considering that he was treated like horseshit.
"His defense and special teams were the worst UM has ever had"....kind of like our offense right now. Setting records in futility.
Kind of hard to know where he would have taken us seeing that he was shown the door before any of his recruits could have 2 years starting experience in his system.
And then, once we boot him, we decide to give the next guy the kind of budget for assistants RRod could only dream of.
Let's start treating you like horseshit at your job and see how well you do.
One, recognizing the importance of Casteel. There wasn't any doubt he'd move to Arizona. Now that's not saying he didn't pursue Jeff to come to Michigan.
Embracing Arizona traditions. Making it a point to say things even in his introductory press conference.
Football-wise, it's been a much bigger balance on offense. Denker has made huge improvements throwing the ball as the season has gone on. I thought after Scott graduated, they'd move into the primarily run-oriented style.
That offense will really take off next year. A young group of WRs, Carey, 4/5 OL. 4 star redshirt freshman QB. Already a top 20 defense. 5 P12 home games.
UM will be returning 3/5 of their OL and they too will return a top 20 defense.
Illogical post anyway. Arizona consistently creates holes. Returning OL from that group should continue, if not improve their running game. Michigan isn't getting running room, is getting blown off the ball, and lose more OL. You'll get it next time.
Also, Michigan loses their two best offensive linemen.
He is a running back. He would be insane not to.
Why anyone would list Michigan returning 3/5 OL as a positive is beyond me, especially considering which OL are returning vs. the quality of those headed to the NFL.
Denker is first year starter, so was Matt Scott who played last year at Arizona and they've managed despite being a team of 2-3 star players.
A lot of these things you say at the end can equate to the current Michigan team. 3/5 OL will return more experienced. 4/5* Sophomore QB will be ready if Gardner pulls some more Gardner things.
Almost the entire defense comes back (I think only players that played plenty that are gone are QWash, Gordon, Avery, Cam and Black). Everyone else (JMFR, Clark, Countess, Taylor, Wilson, Wormley, Mario, Beyer, Morgan, Ross) and guys liek Stribling will be a yearwiser, stronger from the offseason, and be able to finished those plays like against Penn State.
Our experienced depth is crap this year. However, we only lose 12 guys to eligibility.
I'm not talking about Michigan...
Besides, like I said to the other guy, Arizona's OL is consistently creating holes. If you return a group that's consistently getting good ypc... there's more of a chance they'll continue to do that. If the group that's returning less people isn't getting good ypc... there's much less of a chance they'll be able to get good ypc.
Arizona's OL currently consists of 2 RS Juniors at the tackle positions, a Junior at Center, a Sophomore at LG and a Senior at RG.
That is a lot better than having 2 RS Seniors at the tackle positions, a RS Sophomore walk on at Center and a true Freshman and RS Freshman at the guard positions.
They have one underclassman on the OL. We have three. Arizona's entire offense has four underclassmen starting. Three of them are WRs. As we see from their typical stat sheet, they don't pass much.