OT anyone still following tigers?

Submitted by Rodriguesqe on

9 outs, 8 strikeouts so far. its 2 nothing but tigers could have been down many more. 

This team once again is teatering on collapse and with 3 in Cleveland next week I don't think its unthinkable Ausmus is down to his final 3 series. The deadline is in 6 weeks. I don't think the boss will allow for a fire sale but something akin to last year might be possible, though there are less obvious names to move.

not TOM BRADY

June 28th, 2016 at 8:14 PM ^

Yeah. They suck one week they play well the next. .500 ball club right now. Important to remember Rangers were below .500 at the deadline last year and the Blue Jays were 8 games back. Not saying the Tigers are going to make push, but that it's a long season.

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:16 PM ^

And Pelfrey has given up 8 hits now, and we're only in the 4th inning. 

It all starts with the pitching. It's not because we let guys like Rajai Davis walk, unlike what some of the jackasses in the Detroit media like to stir the pot about. Pelfrey and Sanchez have taken turns pitching like steamed shit, and since Zimmerman returned from his injury, he hasn't been overly sharp, either. Having Cleveland absolutely paddle our asses 9 straight games hasn't helped matters one bit. I mean, we haven't even been close to touching Cleveland. 

The bullpen is burnt, due to the fact that we've got to go get the starter in the 4th or 5th inning 3 days a week, regardless of who is starting. If it's not Pelfrey or Sanchez, it's Zimmerman or Verlander getting shelled like he did on Sunday. They're taking turns getting shellacked. 

As for Mr. Ilitch, he will not give up willingly. Period. We're going to ride this rapidly aging core straight into the ground as long as he's alive, although there's enough contracts expiring and/or moveable after 2017 to really start to rebuild. The key is going to be what we're going to do with Miggy. After next season he'll be 35, with 6 years still left on that deal at about $30 mil/year. The rest of it can be dealt with at that time. 

Wolverine Devotee

June 28th, 2016 at 8:15 PM ^

Pelfrey is just terrible. 7 hits in the first 3 innings.

Actually, the whole pen is a dumpster fire. Verlander getting lit up on Sunday where he was visibly upset at not being pulled earlier (I was 5 rows from the field) tells me something.

Ausmus wearing that stupid jacket over his jersey is the Tigers version of the Hoke headset.




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ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:24 PM ^

The reason Verlander went as long as he did was due to the fact that the pen is already overtaxed. Someone had to give them some innings. Ausmus tried as best as he could to keep Verlander in there. I don't blame Ausmus too much on that one.

Zimmerman and Sanchez were utter horseshit the prior two games. At some point a starter has to get some outs. You can't run to the pen in the 4th inning every night. 

As for the jacket, there's a lot of managers that do that. Much different than even 10 years ago. I don't know why they all do that now. *shrug*

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:35 PM ^

The only problem I see with both of them in the pen is, then you've got Boyd back to the rotation (not such a bad option on its face, mind you). You would then be out of viable options in Toledo, and you'd have three starters now that, frankly, you'd have to put on innings limitations unless you want a bunch of spot starts from Sanchez and Pelfrey (Fulmer-Norris-Boyd). 

As for cutting guys loose, Mark Lowe is probably on notice first. 

hunterjoe

June 29th, 2016 at 8:47 AM ^

Don't forget in doing so you also have Sanchez and Pelfrey taking up spots in the pen.  They're not exactly the type of guys you want in the pen.  One of them for long relief situations....  Sure.  But they're not power arms you can bring in in any situation to get a strikeout when needed.  

Eat Your Wheatlies

June 28th, 2016 at 8:46 PM ^

The Pelfrey signing was terrible when it happened, and is currently as bad as I had anticipated. What moron thought signing a guy with an ERA of 4.91 over the three previous seasons was a good idea...for 2 years...and $16 million dollars?!?! Hell, Bartolo, at 43, got a one year deal at just over $7 million. Other names included Rich Hill, Doug Fister, and Colby Lewis...all who took one year deals and are exponentially less shitty that Pelfrey. 

His Dudeness

June 29th, 2016 at 8:04 AM ^

The problem is the fans ran off a HoF manager and then the owners inexplicably fire the second best GM in baseball. And we all think *that* is going to make us better?

Congratulations Detroit sports fans, you've got exactly what you asked for.

Look, the GM tried over and over and over to adress the bullpen. Sometimes in baseball it just doesn't happen like you planned. That doesn't mean you nuke the management team. We gouged our farm system to put together those runs we had from 2006 to 2014. It was great. We came up just short.

At this point we should sell off all of our big timers to re-stock the system. I'm talking Miggy, Verlander, V-Mart, etc.. That will at least make us good again a little quicker. Right now this teams window has shut and we are dying on the vine. Unfortunate truth is you can't stay great forever. Sell high, build a core and hope for the best by adding pieces. We used to have a pretty good GM who did these types of things. Now? Good luck.

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:21 PM ^

The JV contract isn't the killer. There's only 3 years left on that deal, at a reasonable cost, as far as pitching goes today (which is absurd as a whole).

It's Miggy's contract that is going to kill this team. After this season Miggy is still owed $214 mil over 7 years. Guaranteed. And that's BEFORE the two option years kick in. Oh, and shortly after Opening Day 2017, Miggy will be 34. 

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 9:24 PM ^

It's been like this for over 40 years. 

Charlie Finley (former owner of the A's) had it right. In the mid-70s, once the Reserve Clause was dead and free agency was upon us all, he had a very simple idea: make them all free agents every year. Everybody's contract is up every year, and everybody is free to go where ever they like. 

In the mid 70's he tried to convince every owner that you can offer one contract to, say, Thurm Munson. Tell him that if he doesn't take it, you're meeting that afternoon with Johnny Bench, and Carlton Fisk in the morning. One of you is going to be my starting catcher next fall. If I don't get Jim Rice, I'm going to get Fred Lynn or George Foster....you get the idea. 

The owners, thinking (rightfully so) that Charlie Finley was a Grade-A asshole and cheap fuck, A) didn't trust Finley any farther than they could throw him, and B) didn't grasp the concept. Marvin Miller (head of the MLBPA) later said that he was glad that the owners didn't go along with it. Miller later said that he would have had to go back to his own union and explain to the players why they had to turn down the idea of free agency. 

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 10:03 PM ^

Steinbrenner already tried to buy up all the free agents. That's the reason he went 18 years without winning a World Series. In the years he was suspended in the early 90's Bob Watson and Brian Cashman built the core of the 90's dynasty by properly drafting and trading. Once Steinbrenner returned, and commenced opening the checkbook, things started to go downhill for them again.

I do not believe it to be a coincidence that since they went nanners in the FA market that they've won exactly ONE World Series in 15 years now. One. 

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I think it's safe to say that the Yankees were far more successful and had far bigger periods of dominance (and fewer championship droughts) in times where there was NOT free agency, than they have had where they could just open up the checkbook and run everybody over. 

ckersh74

June 29th, 2016 at 11:54 AM ^

Partially true, but what they also had was superior scouting and a superior front office to sign these kids and put them in the NYY system in the first place. Back then there wasn't much of a disparity in the money. And even so, the Yankees low-balled the living shit out of a lot of guys, Mickey Mantle being one of them.

But by the time the mid-60 rolled around, Ed Barrow was long dead, George Weiss was starting to build the Mets, and the scouts were either about to join Barrow, or were already in the graveyard.

For the most part, superior front office management trumps the checkbook. That's why the Yankees have 1 title in 15 years, the Dodgers haven't won since 1988, and the Red Sox, Cardinals, and Giants have 3 rings each in that same time frame.

Muttley

June 29th, 2016 at 2:35 PM ^

w/ a 0.658 winning percentage, on pace to win 106.6 of 162 games.

In football over 16 games, that winning percentage would translate to 10.5 games.  In basketball over 82 games, just 54.0 wins.  (The Chiefs/Vikings and Clippers were closest to those regular season win totals.)

Tonight, unseeded Coastal Carolina plays unseeded Arizona for the College World Series Championship.  Did anyone think those were the best two teams at the end/over the course of the regular season?

Baseball has too much randomness in it with eight playoff teams for the number of World Series wins to be the best measure of franchise production.

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 10:22 PM ^

Yeah, but those option years are for 2024 and 2025. He's guaranteed through 2023, a season in which he'll turn 40 a couple weeks after Opening Day. 

I'm telling you guys. That contract is going to be trouble. 

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:44 PM ^

Let's make no mistake. I'm NO fan of Ausmus. I have no idea why they did not fire him after last season, and let him start this season as a lame duck manager. He should have lost his job last October. 

However....I don't think there's a whole lot more that can be done with this particular team in this particular season. There's always a few niggling things like putting Aviles in RF and batting him 2nd from time to time. But then again, why does the front office think it's such a good idea to have only 3 healthy outfielders on the roster at any given time. Oh, at the same time it's such a smooth idea to carry two backup shortstops posing as utility men. 

We've got 40-60% of our rotation that can't get out of the 4th inning on a semi-regular basis, and we were handed a set-up man that now has an ERA that resembles a credit card interest rate. 

All in all, this is a .500 team. That's right where we're at now, and that's probably where we're going to finish. 

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:28 PM ^

If big changes come, I suspect that it's going to happen after 2017. That's when a lot of contracts either come off the books, or become quite moveable. 

There is NO upgrade available when it comes to starting pitching this fall. That's part of why the starting pitching market went haywire this last fall. Andrew Cashner and Clay Buchholz are probably the 2 best options this fall. Yeah. 

P.S. This is NOT to absolve Daddy Avila of blame for giving Pelfrey a 2-year deal. That was absolutely absurd at any rate. 

coldnjl

June 28th, 2016 at 8:25 PM ^

I watch but I am not invested. I enjoy when they win, but I have always understood what this team was/is...If you thought this team was a contender at the beginning of the season, then that is on you.

ckersh74

June 28th, 2016 at 8:31 PM ^

This team could have contended....if everything had gone right. Had Sanchez rebounded. Had Norris stayed healthy in spring training and continued to progress. Had Pelfrey not gotten shelled like a field of corn on a regular basis. Had Victor been healthy. Had Upton gotten off to anything resembling a reasonable start. Had Mark Lowe not gotten lit up like a Christmas tree on a nightly basis. 

We wound up going 0-for-a-bunch. And I don't see a whole lot improving in the next few months, either. 

coldnjl

June 28th, 2016 at 10:02 PM ^

I guess it could have contended, but fans always over-value the parts of a team and assume that most players will improve. This is a team that is older (more likely to decrease productivity), a team that has a poor farm system (therefore less likely to get free parts that can contribute to a winning team), and is coming off a poor year. All the while, they have a dearth of quality pitching and have a poor defense not capable of getting extra outs (which means more runs given up). They are who they are, but there was a reason no one outside of Detroit thought that they were real contenders. Going down the stretch, expect Maybin to come to earth some while success stories in the rotation, Fulmer and Boyd, to level of and have their workload decrease. 

rob f

June 28th, 2016 at 8:26 PM ^

that I've decided instead to start following a much more wonderful things: Tiggers!

Besides, not nearly as dangerous as 'following tigers'.

LSAClassOf2000

June 28th, 2016 at 8:32 PM ^

Yeah, I still watch games and I still have tickets for several yet this season which I intend to use at the moment, save for one which presents a conflict. As frustrating as it is sometimes and has been for much of this season, I love baseball and I love the Detroit Tigers. Of course, I do keep a show in the preview screen sometimes in the event that I should need a mental break - "Hotel Hell" at the moment.