This is awkward. One minute apart?
OT: Another Gordon Gee Facepalm Moment
would be so proud.
I don't really even get this comment. Why is it offensive? Just seems like a weird analogy to me but maybe I need to brush up on my Polish history. I also just looked up Gee on Wikipedia and saw that this is his second nonconsecutive term as president?? Why would they bring this idiot back?
I don't understand where he was headed with the comment but I don't see the slur part of it all. Maybe there's lines we need to read between?
He basically referenced the failure of the Polish army during, I assume World War2, when the entire country was invaded by two powers, torn apart, victimized by, much of the country destroyed or used as a battleground, widespread famine, marched off to Siberia or Nazi work camps, etc etc.
There are better things to reference than an extremely tragic and painful memory to Polish people everywhere.
I'm pretty sure you just described Ukraine. Pardon my ignorance, though, if this series of events also occured in Poland.
It was pretty horrific there, too.
Relevant quote: "When we had these 18 colleges all kind of floating around, they were kind of like PT Boats, they were shooting each other," Gee said. "It was kind of like the Polish army or something. I have no idea what it was."
I believe it's part of the stereotype regarding the intelligence of Polish people. It may not be a joke anymore, but it used to be about 20 years ago. Obviously, these types of stereotypes are ignorant, but I believe he was referencing that.
Have you heard of this little event called World War Two? it started when Hitler invaded Poland on the 1st of September 1939. The Ukraine did not exist as a nation until, oh, 50 years later.
of any polish joke you've ever heard. I can understand the offense.
There is a sterotype that Poliosh people are stupid. Gee says that all of his divisions were like PT boats that were shooting at one other making it like controlling the Polish Army. Hence, his departments don't work together = they are firing at each other = stupid Polish.
Thank you for explaining, the good thing was that so many young people on this board didn't actually get his reference, I found to be a good thing.
He is a complete embarasment to OSU and to the B10. He should be fired.
but I didn't get it. I should state that I live in Canada though, so maybe the jokes about the Polish just never caught on here. We just make fun of our own....The Newfoundlanders.
Newfoundlanders and Labradorians. Danny Williams would be so disappointed in you.
You leave my dog outta this!
Maybe he should be fired... is someone going to give Tressel a call?
here's a hearty F-CK you to Mr Gee.
Then he goes off and tries to downplay the scandals. Those people down there are genuinely contemptible.
"When we had these 18 colleges all kind of floating around, they were kind of like PT Boats, they were shooting each other," Gee said. "It was kind of like the Polish army or something. I have no idea what it was."
Does this mean that some of these 18 colleges will escape to the West and fight with the Allies (such as Michigan), or will a few stay in Columbus and form a rather formidable resistance movement against Gee?
We will never flee or surrender. We will live in the sewers and fight until this terrible war is finally ended by General Hoke and his soldiers.
Seriously though, I'm not offended by Gee's comments or Polish jokes in general. I expect someone who has a superiority complex to perpetuate stereotypes about another group's perceived stupidity. My understanding of the ineptitude of the Polish Army during the Blitzkrieg was mostly due to the fact that their forces were in Spain helping fight the Fascists. I know that Poland has helped many other countries fight for freedom. Pulaski and Kosciuszko helped us train and fortify our forces during the Revolution.
The Polish == stupid meme also came from a time in American History when there was a large Polish imigrant population and as in the past the last group in is the one getting made fun of. In WWII Poland never stood a chance, they were between Russia and Germany and had no support from any other nation. They were doomed, they were doomed from the end of WWI since all the territory from which Poland was reconstituted was taken from Russia (mostly) and Germany and they both wanted it back.
this day. They did the heavy lifting on more than one operation in Iraq.
Mixing PT boats and a reference to the Polish Army seems a bit odd. I'd have stuck with the tried and true goat rodeo. Goats can't type.
Poland has supplied some very good troops to ops in Afghan and Iraq.
PT boats are mainly affiliated with the PTO, not the ETO. Gee is confusing the two theaters.
"To stop the blitzkrieg, the polish put thier army on PT boats and lined them up on the german boarder? Were they just laying there or were they on trailers?"
"Also,Mr. Gee to you agree with Billy Madisons view on American Industry and the puppy/dog theroy?"
Maybe he thought this was more PC than referencing a Chinese fire drill.
Seriously, though, people take "offense" way too easily these days. Suck it up.
Where's my participation trophy!?
Seriously, though, people take "offense" way too easily these days. Suck it up.
I don't think it's about anyone in particular being offended. I think it's about expecting more from a university president. If I'm talking to someone who uses racial slurs, it doesn't hurt my feelings. It just makes me think the person I'm talking to is beneath notice.
Yesterday, I happened to be reading some comments by UNC fans on their impending NCAA sentencing. They were waving their hands about and screaming hysterically about how the NCAA was like Stalinist-Russia (but not like Leninist Russia or Suslovist Russia) and Nazi Germany. Well...no, it's not. Those two regimes killed about 50 million of their own people and engaged in ethnic cleansing and brutal totalitarian tactics that stripped the humanity out of wide swaths of an entire continent. The NCAA, whatever its faults, is nothing like that. You're being a self-dramatizing child.
Likewise, running a University is NOTHING like organizing an underfed, underpaid, under-equipped Army that's about to get pulverized into dust leaving the country in such a state of ruin that it will be three or four generations before it's able to stand on its own.
Furthermore, Columbus State was not a victim in all of this. If you're punished for breaking the rules, that's YOUR fault. Poland didn't start the war with Germany (unless you want to be truly melodramatic and claim that, Yes they did...the end of WWI and the Armistice and blahblahblah...Deutschland, Deutschland Uber Alles). The NCAA didn't INVADE Columbus.
in the carving up of Czechslovakia. The Poles were also visciously anti-Semitic. The brutality exhibited towards Jews by Poles is well documented. Poland has much to be ashamed of in its own right in that war.
How did you go from UNC equating the NCAA to the Nazis to Ohio State?
At first I wrote off this stupidity to him just being a doddering old man who says things that might have been ok to say 50 years ago but not anymore. I think everyone has or has had an older relative somewhere that has said something like this, or referred to black people as "colored" or something. Then I read the article and realized that he is only 67. My parents are about this age (one older, one younger), and no way would they ever say anything this stupid. I remember jokes like this from when I was a kid, and that's where they belong: with 11-year-olds that don't know any better, not with supposedly-adult university presidents. What a jackass.
Not taking offense although I can see why people would, but the comment doesn't even make sense. What did he mean by it?? Has he got 18 different colleges fighting each other and trying to screw over the next guy for their own benefit? And how does that even apply to the Polish army, or any for that matter, in a time of war. Maybe he should have used Russian during the Bolshevik revolution as a better analogy (getting out of WWI then quickly falling into revolution), but that still doesn't fit.
I just hope this guy didn't start his career as a historian or anything close to it. One thing we do know, he certainly wasn't a public speaking coach because he is a billboard for what not to do.
a technocrat with Aspergers to run your university.
You're going to insult someone who made a racist comment by insulting people with Aspergers? I have Aspergers, and I assure you things like what Gee said don't pop into my head, and I have the mental filter to not say them if they did.
So much for enlightenment.
I live in Milwaukee where one side of town doesn't stop making Polish Jokes and the other doesn't stop making German ones. The problem here is that it wasn't really all that funny and sounded more like a straight up comparison
Neither side of town is the President of a major University.
To believe that Time magazine named this dufus the number one rated president of American universities in 2010.
Really? By what standards? I read the article, but it does not seem to track with the comedic public persona of the past year.
Ohio needed Gee's connec tion to Mark Emmert while the investigation was being completed . Now that they were able to take advantage of this connection and got away with about a fifth of the punishment they actually deserved, they really have no use for Gordon Gee or Gene Smith anymore. I am guessing that Gee "retires" at the end of the school year and the next president brings in his own guy at AD.
You mean Urban Meyer brings in HiS guys as President and AD?
Obviously, Gordon Gee is a brilliant military historian.
1/2 Polish as well. Have a "ski" at the end of my name, as well. I think Gee would have looked more intelligent if he would have just used the old "Did we give up when the German's bombed Pearl Harbor" shtick instead....
Just suggests, as so many of his remarks, that he's silly and out of touch. The fact that someone so unappealing is considered a marvelous administrator in 2012 is worrisome.
Glad he ain't ourn.
Either Gee is the best fundraiser on the planet or has something on every trustee/regent's wife/husband. Why else would he be retained?
Everytime I see Gee, who reminds me of a circus barker, I say thank God for Mary Sue Coleman.
Haters gonna Hate
Unfortunately, the wrong one.
If you gave President Obama a break on his Special Olympic bowler comment, you probably shouldn't be commenting on this. People say stupid things all the time. People say insensitive things all the time. I think the general population looking to pounce on any slip up someone makes (as long as you already have a inclination to dislike the person) is the problem more than anything.
dispariging remarks about Polands Army..Poland has been one of Americas staunchest
and most reliable allies during the the Iraq and Afghan conflicts..He should be thanking
them for their loyalty instead of making fun of them
My buddy brought up a good point in that Gee kind of looks like the old man from the Six Flags commercials, you be the judge. He probably danced like him when he found out their "sanctions".
Can't edit on my phone but obviously a bald version of Gee anyways...
First it was T.Pryor's "Everyone murders.." and now this.
Gee is so fired. Urban won't stand for this.
proves why Gee was when hired, and remains, the perfect man to lead Ohio. Bravo, Gordo!
But I think many are giving this Gee too much credit. The reason there's "a mixed reference of PT boats and the Polish army in WWII" is because there is no WWII reference. It was a "Poles are dumb" reference and nothing more.
Sorry MGoCommunity, I just have to vent a little bit about the selective outrage many of us display on this board and in our nonsensical politically correct lives. This has been on my mind quite a bit lately as I peruse the Blog and I've kept my feelings to myself for the most part, but it seems to apply to this discussion so I thought I'd share (and I don't think it is worthy of its own thread).
If a university president makes a reference to Polish intelligence we get a larger than average discussion villainizing the guilty party. If a recruit calls the fans/recruits of his soon to be rival 'fags" we have a pretty sizeable discussion about it. Judging from the discussion the other day, it is fairly acceptable to slander "Evangelical Christians" or "Christians" in general because their ideology does not mesh with ours... and because some hate mongers claim membership to those groups. If there were ever a slur about any other group I can only imagine the outrage on this board... and rightfully so; however, the use of the word retarded is used almost daily on this board and rarely if ever is there an objection raised.
Since the topic of WWII was brought up, and many of you seem very knowledgable on the topic, you have to know that individuals with intellectual disabilities were the first to test out the Nazi Gas Chambers...in fact the Nazi's perfected their techniques on this population and others that were too burdensome to feed and house because they couldn't work up to the standards that were expected. Even today in the USA, 90% of the Down syndrome babies end up aborted for many of the same justifications the Nazis used... too much of a burden on parents, think of the cost to raise these kids. Anther we use today is... they will never be able to live a satisfying life so we are doing them a favor. Yet it is perfectly acceptable to remain silent on this issue, even amongst members of this community who pride themselves on being the most tolerant and accepting of any university or community (speaking of AA).
In my own community, Sarasota county, when a triple scan test comes up positive many families are sent to a specific specialist in Sarasota (He may have retired as its been 8 years and he was no spring chicken). He does the 3D ultra sound to take measurements and look at the ratios, look for heart issues, neck size, etc. When that is all done the doctor gives you a probability that your child has Down syndrome (ours was 1 in 250). He then goes on to recommend amniocentesis (at the time my wife was pregnant the risk of terminating a pregnancy from this procedure was 1 in 250). This doctor literally recommended this procedure so that we could make a better decision on whether to keep the "fetus" or terminate the pregnancy. This is repeated, I am sure, all over the world on a daily basis. In some countries there isn't even a choice in the matter. Yet, silent acceptance. However, if someone steps on your lawn, and offends your cause, behold the outrage.
For those of you who are curious, my wife and I opted against amnio, abortion was not an option, and risking termination just to know 20 weeks earlier didn't seem like an option. We were not really worried as 1 in 250 seems to be odds that were definitely in our favor. Low and behold, my daughter was born with DS, though I suspected (knew in my heart) that she had it the moment she come from the birth canal, the doctors at the local hospital would not make a diagnosis. She was transported to All Children's in St. Pete where 2 geneticists in a team of 3 predicted she did not have DS after physical inspection. After the karyotype was done she was diagnosed with trisomy-21 (DS). I can assure any of you who are facing a similar decision or who will in the future, kids with Down syndrome are no different than any others. They will make you laugh, they will make you cry, you will celebrate milestones (some may take a little longer), they will accomplsh things that you never thought that they'd be able to (my daughter has been able to read since 1st grade and has a ridiculous number of site words in her vocabulary). The love, compassion, and loyalty that she displays to everyone around her (though she has her onery moments too) I have not witnessed from any other child that I have known. She brings joy to our family and especially to me as a father. I typically try to educate people in my private life (usually high school students as I am a teacher and coach) when they say something, or someone is retarded. I don't typically get offended. I have friends (usually the ones from New Jersey) who just can't seem to help themselves. I think the point is that there are plenty of real reasons that we can find to be/get offended than scrutinizing a person's choice of words. It seems that people can treat others horribly (attacking an individual as opposed to a group) and its ok as long as they use language that is PC (especially if we seem to be talking about groups that are not under the PC umbrella of protection) or their political/religious/social/etc. views don't allign with ours. If we found ways to love one another and built each other up instead of looking for ways to tear each other down, we'd be living in a much better world.
End Incoherent Rant. Thanks to those of you who didn't TL/DR.
I'm with you on the "retarded" remarks. It hurts, especially if you are a parent of a child with an intellectual disability. My 8 old year old son has autism. He's very well behaved for a child with his condition and improving his social and comm skills, but he'll likely always seem very odd to others. This opens up a lot of different fears for me when he gets older, but anyway.
My skin is no doubt much thicker than it was 8 years ago when my wife and I didn't have to endure the complaining glares, incredulous looks and head shaking by other parents about my son's sometimes odd behavior in a restaurant, on the soccer field, the baseball diamond the public swimming pool or on a 3 hr flight to Chicago. He's usually silent, and communication skills and social skills are a significant deficit for him.
To strangers, "he's retarded". It's how they make sense of the situation. I try not to let it bother me. And I'm definitely NOT in the paedogic mode of "educating" people who in 2012 should a.) know better and b.) have the upbringing to demonstrate manners and compassion.
Most people I find are understandably very busy, self-centered and just don't have any wisdom on the subject.
I have little cousins with DS, by the way, and honestly no child lights up a room and melts hearts with their smiles and laughter quite like they do. They receive more love and attention than the other children do and to me that's cool.
Kids with autism intrigue me so much. I was majoring in psychology with hopes of going to medical school to specialize in orthopaedics. I volunteered to work with an 8 year old boy with autism for one of my projects in applied psychology. According to his mother he was normally developing until 2 years of age, normal speech development, affectionate, etc. Parents realized at some point during his second year that he quit talking, didn't want to be held, and had many of the other characteristic traits of autism. Through my work with Ryan I decided to change my major to special education and wanted to work with students with autism. Life being what it is sometimes, that didn't work out, but I do teach special education and have had many students with autism and asperger's syndrome, I just have them in a varying exceptionalities setting. I hope the research turns up some answers sooner than later as to what is causing autism to become so prevalent today. Thanks for sharing about your son!
Are an amazing parent!!! I can only Imagine the ignorant people you run into and refrain from putting them in their place. May you and your family be blessed.
At least he didn't say OSU lost to Florida because UF ran a bunch of "Jap plays" (see Bill Parcells, 2004)