OT Alternatives for U of M for HS Senior?
My son will be a HS Senior next year. He has a 3.5 taking mostly AP classes and a 30 ACT the first time around with zero prep (just retook the test and I think may see a point or two improvement). Michigan is his first, second and third choice but we're looking for some backup plans.
Initially looking for schools within a 5 hour drive at roughly the same cost as U of M instate.
No defined major but will apply to LS&A and Art School. Has an interest in Environmental Science and Psychology but is pretty wide open at this point. Plays HS Sports so a good intramural program would be nice.
We're probably going to visit Hillsdale and Grand Valley and I've poisoned him on MSU. I can't see CMU/WMU/EMU Ferris, Northern, Mich Tech - any suggestions?
Harvard is a good safety school.
Only if I retire at 85.... My niece graduated from there this year and was on the womens crew team. My poor (literally) brother.
There are many other Big Ten institutions aside from the two, MSU and OSU. However, education is education. Where exactly do you live? Illinois might not be a bad option, Wisconsin, also not a bad option, with the scores you have listed. Keep an open mind, there are tons of great schools out there within reasonable distance of the Great Lakes.
EDIT: I am not implying MSU and OSU are bad schools, but it seems, with respect to the poison comment, he wouldn't want him there. Although... MSU....
OSU is not an option but the others might be, although a bit pricey. Thanks!
and while the education, faculty, resources, etc. are wildly better at UM you can still receive a good education at MSU if you really want to. At UM you are basically guaranteed to have a strong course load with many difficult and demanding classes whereas at MSU it can be very easy to "coast" through with few demanding classes. You can still receive a good education, but it has to be your priority and of your own doing.
and a 30 maybe 31 on his ACT you better slap someone at U of M if he does not get in.
...but, be careful. Make certain he takes physics in high school. I know 4.0+ student who took plenty of AP classes and scored well on the ACT who did not get in because of not taking physics. I think the danger can be mitigated by applying to LS&A, which you mentioned was likely.
Have him apply very early...September or early October.
I remember applying to college. I didn't have a backup plan...literally. I put all my eggs in the Maize-and-Blue basket, and it worked out...but my numbers were not as good as your kids'.
Good Luck!! Go Blue!
Have him apply very early...September or early October.Cannot stress this enough. With the rolling admissions, early application is key.
generally considered to be less competitive than fall enrollment.
But with those grades and test scores, he really should be just fine.
I wondered about that. So he could apply for a Spring/Summer as opposed to the Fall? Ann Arbor is so cool in the Summer I don't think he would mind starting a bit early. He could commute for the summer and head to the dorm in September. Great idea, thanks!
A high school friend of mine definitely went this route and started during summer term.
I started during spring term when I transfered so it is definitely a possibility.
Amen Brother! I always stress this to UofM hopefulls. I have seen the same credentials go either way based on when they apply.
I had a 33 on my ACT and a 3.8 GPA and didn't get into U of M because I applied too late.
It was 2004 and all that, but I didn't take physics and that had no impact on my admission to any school. Otherwise good advice, and GOOD LUCK!
His first two years at International Academy IB program (International Baccalaureate) which was brutal and included Physics and Chemistry, not a lot of fluff classes. This depressed his grades a bit (playing football and basketball and doing a IB program). U of M does not significantly value the IB so he moved to regular HS AP classes his junior year.
can't stress it enough ...
unless the date has changed in the last 2 years (when i applied), that means pre oct 31st (i was lazy and had to finish my essays on halloween)
the numbers look decent, if he has extracurriculars like sports (mentioned) and something thats not a sport (suggest he join a group like nhs or sadd if he hasnt already)
also, alot depends on what kind of high school he attends ... my gpa was better (act 32) but i had no APs, but i was fine cause i went to a hick highschool who rarely sends kids to umich and offers only 1 ap anyway ... a big comparison they make is too other students from his high school
also, write a bomb ass essay and get a good letter of rec
as far as back up schools, the only other in state school i considered was michigan tech because it is quite strong for ungrads if you want to go into enginerring or chem
you mention an interest in art, if he really wants to do that he should look at kendall in grand rapids or ccs in detriot ... my sister (freshman last yr) is an art student and actually turned down michigan art because the programs at ccs (her eventual choice) and kendall are better
hope that helps
if you want, but from an honest standpoint, this statement is extremely untrue, personally I was worried about getting in with a 35, 3.85 and mostly AP's. His best shot is to apply very early as he is well below the average for GPA and only slightly above the average ACT
I think his ACT will come up and he was in the International Academy IB program for two years which was brutal so I think the grade point comparison may be different. In regular high school taking AP classes he is more like a 3.7+
The real question is what are potential alternative schools? I think he has a good chance to get into M (he will also apply to Art school which has different requirements) but want to look at backup plans.
so i dont know too much about other schools in art, but northwestern is an amazing school and it isnt too far away
lsa is a little different ...
plus like i said above, umich rates you more on other students in your high school then on base numbers ... i have friends in umich that barely got 3.0s in high school ... it really is a case by case thing
I totally agree with that (case by case basis) I was just disagreeing with the "guaranteed spot" someone said he would have.
I had a 3.9 with a bunch of AP courses. Went down to like a 3.5 when UM butchered it by removing the honor points. A 32 (33 math and 35 science) ACT and I still didn't get into the Engineering school back in 01. Thought for sure it would have been enough, so I didn't really have a back up plan. Ended up at UM-Dearborn. FML.
To A2? If you have great grades, it is very possible.
I already graduated like 5 years ago, but yes, I explored the transfer thing. I got accept for transfer, but Ann Arbor was basically not going to accept most of my credits for anything degree related. I was pretty pissed and finished in 4 years at Dearborn rather than going to Ann Arbor. Still a little bitter about how it all played out, but it may have been for the best.
With those scores, he could probably get a pretty decent scholarship at either Hope College or Calvin College and bring the cost down to par with UM in-state. Both have good academic reputations within the state, and place well within UM's graduate programs. If he's thinking of staying around after graduation, he'd be fine. I'd say those are (by a fair margin) better academic options than any of the Michigan directional schools.
We will look into those. How Religiosly focused are those schools?
Both are pretty religious. Calvin may be a little more conservative than Hope, though neither is still posting professors outside the local movie theaters to prevent students from entering like they used to :-).
I think they're both Dutch Reformed. I don't know as much about Hope, but I know the Calvin administration is somewhat "conservative" (read: more orthodox) and sticks to its religious roots for the most part. From what I've heard, the school definitely pushes the kids to be involved, but isn't a stifling atmosphere that takes away kids' freedoms to pursue their faith by their own volition. All my friends who have gone to Hope/Calvin have loved it, for whatever that's worth.
"Responsible freedom" and discernment are the mantras over at Calvin. That whole statement is true.
very religious based. If you want I could put you in touch with a current Hope student for the inside scoop. She is a conservative Baptist.
If you're not looking at Christian colleges, disregard this, but it's worth considering. With those grades/scores he'd qualify for a $10,000 a year scholarship at Calvin at least. I've heard that there are very few graduates from Calvin that apply to Michigan's engineering graduate programs that are declined. I got in with a good, not spectacular, GPA and decent GRE scores. Someone told me at some point that when UM is considering applicants, Calvin students are considered to have GPAs about .2 above their actual GPA. No idea if that's true, but it's just what I've heard. I do know that for a long time while Calvin didn't have an ABET accredited engineering program, there was a 3/3 program where students could do three years of undergrad at Calvin and finish their BSE and MSE at Michigan the next three years, so Calvin and UM have a great relationship. The same may be true for Hope.
Both campuses are great, depending on what you're looking for. Hope's is right in the middle of Holland, and Calvin's is just outside of downtown GR. Tons of stuff within walking distance of both.
Anyway, I just wrote a book, but they are both good schools. Calvin was very tough at times, and it's liberal arts, so I had to take classes in history, philosophy, religion, English, etc. but I thought that was a good thing. Much better to be well rounded than just focus on one subject for four years, IME.
He shouldn't really need a back up, but the 5 hr drive and in-state tuition is gonna hurt. Once you look out of state, it is not going to be cheaper than umich. If you have poisoned him on MSU, I think you have to take a huge step down in academics to meet your criteria.
My best friend went to Hillsdale, it is a small private school and is strong in Science (Biology and Cemistry IIRC) but not much else and is in a small town and feels like a high school.
Good Luck to him, I doubt he will have any issues from his GPA and ACT though.
EDIT: my cousin got a bunch of scholarship dollars to go to Indiana which made her college costs less than umich in-state. So with those scores (and great odds at scholarship money), look to IU, Purdue, Wisky, and Illinois.
Nebraska baby. Get him in on the ground floor of Big Ten-dom.
My sister had a 4.0 and a 30 ACT and got waitlisted. That 4.0 included college classes. I think if she'd have gone to any Ann Arbor schoo,l she'd have been fine. Unfortunately, I don't think they look as kindly upon unknown, tiny private schools.
Yea admissions is weird. I come from a Michigan family, (My mom was Captain of the Women's BBall team, my uncle is head of the Computer Science Dept.) and my little bro, with a 3.7 GPA and a 1520/1600 SAT, got flat rejected. Worst day of his life.
1520 on the S.A.T come on there is no way he was flat rejected
I refuse to believe that a legacy with credentials like that would get rejected. I had a 3.8 and 1240/1600 SAT and was first of an out-of-state family to get admitted.
He must've applied late, I applied in September '01.
The issue is here that I just got into UM with a 3.8 GPA and 2300 SAT, so the issue here is did the sister apply before or after they redid the SAT, because if it was after, those are very mediocer scores at best.
No bull he got rejected. He applied in September of his senior year of high school, and was also Captain of the Wrestling team. And yes, 1520 out of 1600.
He's starting his 2nd year at Clemson this fall.
well then yes, he belongs in the book of college admissions horror stories. Here's the truth, as soon as you get beyond a certain stage in the admissions department, after they have weeded out all the obvious people, after that it is a crapshoot. Obviously, the odds were with your brother, but even with a 97% chance, there is still that 3%. He should have gotten in. Sorry.
Um, the SAT has been out of 2400 since I was in high school, and I'm two years older than your brother. Unless he got that score when he was in middle school (or unless I'm missing something about the SAT), he took the test out of 2400
First of all, I can all but guarentee he will get into UM. He's got the grades, the ACT score, and the extra-cirriculars from the sound of it, and I highly, HIGHLY doubt he won't get in.
As much as it pains me to say it, MSU is also worth a look, so long as you trust your son not to do anything, uh, irresponsible we'll say. They do have a pretty nice campus (Just not Ann Arbor), and like it or not, MSU isn't a bad school.
Michigan Tech will be far more than a 5 hour drive from wherever you are. It takes that long to get there from Mackinaw alone. If you can overlook that however, my best friend goes to Tech, and if you're looking for a smaller school with a good engineering background, Tech is also worth a look (If your son plays hockey, he might even be able to look at walking on. Tech's hockey team is going through worse straights than our football team right now). They are NOT, however, an art school. No Tech art students stays there, from what I've been told by my friends up there. I'm not even sure they have an actual art program up there, they just get art students from time to time somehow.
GVSU also has a nice campus, being that the place has only been around 50 years, but personally, I never liked it that much. It feels like a gated community to me, and far too shut off from the outside world. Grand Rapids is just down the road, of course, but I always got the impression that the general atmosphere of the place was isolation. To be honest though, I never seriously considered GVSU, so I might not have given it the attention you may consider giving it. I applied to Michigan, MSU, and Tech and had them ranked in that order of priority. I got accepted to all of them and therefore picked my #1, although MSU kept sending me e-mails like I was going to go there until months after the deposit deadline when I guess they finally figured out I wasn't coming.
Can't speak for any of the Michigan directionals, as I've never been to one nor do I have any close friends that attend. Somebody else can probably speak to that.
I applied to MSU and U of M a long time ago and got into both. My brother went to State and I've been there many times. My son is just too rabid of a M fan at this point to go to State. We will visit GVSU but it does seem like it's kind of in the middle of nowhere. I've never been to Hillsdale so we will see how small it is.
I transferred to Grand Valley last fall and i like it a lot. Although the campus in Allendale is pretty much in the middle of nowhere, i don't really feel like it is isolated. Most of the students live out there and it is a fun place to hang out. The campus is nice and easy to get around. They also have a great golf course which is really cheap if your a student. Downtown GR is close and there are free busses that go back and forth all day. The downtown campus is cool but that mostly for Business classes and engineering. GR is a fun town that usually has a lot of concerts going on and other activities so a lot of kids from Allendale make regular "trips" to GR. With those scores i would think he would be able to get some pretty good scholarships.
is in the middle of nowhere, sort of. Allendale isn't too far from downtown GR, which had a decent downtown atmosphere. Allendale has come a long way though. There are quite a few options in town and around campus for student "socializing," and the area keeps growing.
The intramural program is pretty solid, as are their sports in general. GVSU has dominated The D-II equivalent of the Director's Cup this decade.
Kalamazoo College and Calvin are excellent schools, but the tuition will be higher than U of Ms without any scholarship redux.
The environment at Western, academically and socially, is in my opinion the best of any of the directional schools (though I've heard you get tons of free schwag at Northern). Kalamazoo has a better culture than Mt. Pleasant or Ypsilanti.
....but we have a casino.....and seriously I have yet to meet anyone that went to Western that is not an Asshat.
just my e-pinon ...
but being from mid-michigan and with 30+ high school friends at central ... i admit i may be slightly biased ;)