One year ago today was the rumor that he was fired. Damn, time goes fast.
OT: All signs seem to indicate RR will get Casteel
For those of you who don't want to read about RR anymore, please skip this thread before it turns into a "not our coach" bitch session.
Probably after the game tonight Casteel will make his move to join RR in Arizona. The fact that he hasn't named one, yet, seems to be an obvious sign that RR was willing to wait until after WV plays tonight.
I also was on a flight with a WVU sports management grad student who said the athletic dept. believes Casteel is gone, as well.
If true, could be a great get for RR. Hope it works out.
RR's first Pac 12 game next year will be against Oregon - rough way to start.
EDIT: sorry, I put this into the wrong section. please move into Mgoboard.
that was a rumor?
Frankly, I hope RR does exceedingly well @ AZ. I hope he builds a power in the Pac12 South and recruits the hell out of AZ, TX, NV, AND CA!!
I would love to have him do so well he has USC screaming that he is taking all their recruits! Then they won’t be the only strong program there and get EVERY 5*/4* in CA, especially southern CA.
Plus, I just like the guy, what can I say.
That is great news for Arizona
Haha key phrase: for Arizona.
or Nathan Arizona?
but it doesn't have anything to do with MICHIGAN. When Rich Rod takes a dump, we don't need to know what kind of TP he used.
he learns from his past mistakes.
Which is why he hired Gibson?
In his defense, wasn't Gibson on staff with Casteel when they had a top 5 defense?
Casteel and Gibson has had defenses that perform at a similiar rate to Greg Mattison's defenses in college.
Not getting Casteel was the single biggest factor in RR failing at Michigan. It would have solidified his staff from the start.
So he has learned.
Gibson was on our 2008-10 defenses, and they certainly didn't perform like a Mattison D. Pitt's secondary got worse when he came there, too. The evidence suggests he's simply a bad secondary coach. I don't think a good DC can completely mask that.
I'm not sold on Casteel. I don't think he's had to face that many top-notch offenses in the Big East. Scott Shafer (the guy we shipped out after one season) went to another Big East school (Syracuse) and promptly turned them into a top 20 defense. That doesn't make Shafer another Mattison.
he said staffs with both casteel and Gibson. your point about Gibson for that last four years has absolutely zero to do with what he said.
Anyone negging the above post didn't read Bacon's book. RR wanted Casteel here. Bill Martin wouldn't fork over the cash - and it wasn't a lot of money either.
Casteel was making what, $265-75k? He could have probably been swayed at $350k or so. Rodriguez should have offered to take $150-200k or so off his own salary to make it happen if he really wanted him here.
Or he could have taken the money from the demands he made to revamp the weight room at a cost of over a million dollars.
BTW, is the Hoke regime using that weight room as-is, or did they demand some changes of their own?
They added more free weights and traditional plate lifting materials, changed some of the "messages" on the walls and it's a blend of what Michigan used to do pre-Barwis and what they did with Barwis.
They also added sleds and old school power training materials.
why was the above post negged? is it not true?
Dude, a state of the art weight room is not a benefit to Rich Rodriguez - it is an investment for the University of Michigan that is, and will continue to pay dividends in player development and recruiting. We had a bunch of old equipment sitting around that did not satisfy the requirements for the new, much-lauded, strength and conditioning staff. And that's not to mention that a coaching contract is OVER TIME, whereas the $1 million upgrade is a ONE TIME investment.
For fuck's sake, of ALL the decisions RR made, complaining about this one is just plain ignorant.
Why can people on this board just LET IT GO!?
Calm down. It's a fair point, and even John Bacon (who is hardly anti-RR) makes it.
If the budget was tight, maybe we didn't need to spend $1M right then on weight room updates. Maybe we could have spent like $700K on the weight room and used the other $300K to seal the deal with Casteel. Or maybe RR could have insisted on getting both. He chose to focus on Barwis and let the chips fall where they may on defense. We saw how that turned out.
Having a good DC is a good investment, too. Even if Barwis got our defensive players in good shape, the terrible coaching made it all for naught.
There is a difference between being unwilling and unable to pay for something. Michigan had the resources to do both, but elected not to out of misguided arrogance. These are all counterfactuals that have no relevance to the main issue, which is that it is not RR's fault that the AD was unwilling to give any of his assistants contracts; for Casteel, unlike the others, this was the dealbreaker.
Remember: the strength staff spends MORE time with the players than the football staff does. RR said that Barwis is a key component of his entire football program. All you have to do is listen to RR talk about Barwis, and Barwis about RR to understand that they share a vision of what a football program should be like.
He did not believe Casteel was as important to the program as a whole. Maybe in hindsight he would change things, but my argument, and the one Bacon made, is that this was a choice that he should not have been forced to make in the first place. Suggestions like skimming of 300k for a weight room upgrade, or asking him to pay Casteel out of his own pocket don't address any of the key problems: no contract for Casteel, and a meager pay raise.
The difference between the offers was $10k. That's all. As I said elsewhere it wouldn't have taken much to pull Castell here.
RR didn't need to lower his own salary, nor should he have. Michigan with its vast resources could have easily offered more money to Casteel but they wouldn't match WVU's simple offer of $10k extra and a contract. What's Michigan's endowment, multibillions?
Dave Brandon said himself Michigan needs to pony up the money for coaches instead of paying middle-to-low end salaries; something Michigan was doing for years due to the loyalty/frugality of previous coaching staffs.
It wasn't just about money though. According to Bacon's book none of RRs assistance at M had contracts. Casteel staying at WVU offered him more money, job security in the form of a 2 year contract, and allowed him to keep his family in WV where they were comfortable. All of this happened due to the fact that WVU decided to hire Bill Stewart from RRs previous staff.
So, yes M definitely needed to start forking over more cash for assistants but some contracts would have helped.
Actually, Bacon says that Rodriguez didn't push the issue enough and didn't seem to regard luring Casteel as a top priority. He was absolutely adamant that Michigan do whatever it took to bring Barwis, but didn't seem to insist upon Casteel. If he really wanted Casteel, he could have talked Martin into making it happen.
The fact that he's held open the DC position on his staff pending the end of Casteel's season probably indicates that he has at least realized how important Casteel was to his success at WVU. What he doesn't seem to have learned is that a good coach should be able to focus on what he knows and hire top assistants to handle what he doesn't know. Casteel isn't the only great DC Rodriguez could have lured to Arizona, he's just apparently the only great DC he felt he could work with.
Actually Bacon's book on page 88 says Casteel had a Michigan cell phone and was ready to come here until WVU made a counteroffer.
Michigan could have easily matched WVU's offer of only $10k more. But they didn't. That's not up to RR, ultimately that was up to Bill Martin.
I know, but what I'm saying is that Rodriguez could have insisted upon bringing Casteel with him. He did that with Barwis. Rodriguez had plenty of leverage in his dealings with Michigan; if he really wanted to, he could have persuaded Martin to pony up and beat WVU's counteroffer to Casteel. If Rodriguez had told Martin, "This guy was crucial to what we built at WVU, I need him here in Ann Arbor. Please do whatever it takes to get him," do you think Martin would have said no? Rodriguez didn't push the issue the way he did for Barwis. Bacon himself has made this point in radio interviews. The fact that Rodriguez has held the DC position on his staff open for over one month after he was hired at Arizona just so Casteel could finish his season indicates that he has come to realize just how critical Casteel was to his success at WVU.
Why couldn't this have aligned for us...
Wish him well.
Truth. I finally got Bacon's book and while I'm only 2/3 through it, it's pretty obvious that had RR had Casteel here, things would have been very, very different.
I don't think it's obvious. Just because one of Rodriguez's closest friends said that in the book doesn't mean it's definitely true. I think Casteel has morphed into this kind of white whale to Rodriguez's Captain Ahab after the fact as a way to justify Rodriguez's failures. Heck, the book itself makes it clear that landing Casteel wasn't even that high of a priority for RR at the time.
Reading it left me with a few distinct impressions.
One, that I really wished RR would have worked out at Michigan, and that he's a great coach (not excusing the reasons he failed). He's going to find the top as he did everywhere else he's been.
Two, I genuinely feel like a friend of his. It's amazing how spending two days reliving the last three years through his eyes has endeared him to me.
Third, it made me wish one of our at bats with Les Miles had connected. That we chose to take the walk when the pitcher was intentionally gifting under hand lobs irks me.
And fourth, I really needed to read the book on Hoke and his first season. The story that is this year and our future is the perfect follow up to a real, poignantly beautiful, but heart-breaking tragedy.
....will make the Pac-12 South an intriguing division given time.
A "not USC" year that isn't the result of a postseason ban would be nice. I wish them well.
I have it on good authority that UM won the Sugar Bowl yesterday.
#1 or two at worst with Barkley and his receivers all coming back. RR's 1st year in Zona should be fairly brutal.
Idk, USC is the only good team in that division. It's probably gonna be brutal regardless, but less so than if the Pac12 south wasn't a one pony race.
Will he run an offense similar to Tulane or use them like he did Threet and Sheridan at UM?
There's a good sample size now of Rodriguez first years (Glenville State, WVU, Michigan) where one can conclude that Arizona's first year will probably be pretty tough. That said, I think he will be successful at 'Zona as I see the AD and fanbase being more patient than what was present at Michigan.
Great news for RR and Zona. Bad news for West Virginia.
Good for RR. Casteel and him can obviously work well together, and Casteel does field some pretty consistantly good Ds.
I believe Brian put all of these threads to rest with a post a couple weeks ago. The only time i want to hear his name is when Zona plays a b1g team in five years. Otherwise...forget it.
Casteel believes he is typecast as a coach with deep roots to West Virginia and the WVU program and would be difficult to pry away from Morgantown. Casteel feels this perception has kept him from being considered for jobs he would otherwise be a candidate. His rationale for making a lateral move to Arizona is to break the stereotype and show his willingness to move on from West Virginia.
He thinks he's not getting offered because schools don't think he'll accept? If they really wanted him wouldn't they toss a tentative offer out to gauge his interest? It doesn't ring true--it soundls like something dreamed up to avoild discussion of the more relevant issues, like his relationship with Torgerson.
I don't see going from WVU to Arizona as a lateral move. I see it as a step down.
Thus, I'll be surprised if it happens. But if it does, I guess it'll be interesting to see how RR does with the one DC in the entire world he is able to work with well.
No, IMO it is a strong lateral move and maybe improvement for a couple of reasons (especially in Casteel’s case):
1) Going from a newcomer in Big12 (Which itself may or may not survive) to a very strong Pac12 conference.
2) If AZ defense turns around and becomes a strength he will get all the credit as his head coach (RR) has the “No Defense” label already.
3) Some concerns of animosity with present coach, yet he has shown he works well with RR.
4) Will have demonstrated he can come out of WVU apron strings if he feels that is a deterrent to recent bypass on a head coach positions.
Casteel's gone from being the heir apparent under an over-his-head Stewart to a coordinator with no future at the school under Holgerson...aside from the prevalent rumors of friction between the two (understandable under the circumstances).
Holgorsen seems like he would be a dick to work for.
To be fair, he inherited a minor personnel clusterf*ck at West Virginia considering that the transition from Stewart to himself was rather clumsy from a PR standpoint. It doesn't give him the right to look a bit uptight on the sidelines, but I suppose I can't totally blame him at the same time. The "coach to be" thing just doesn't work when egos are involved.
The guy looks like a belligerent drunk on the sideline. I wonder what he's like when he's really drunk (which is apparently often). He also came off as a prick when he publicly complained about students not showing up early enough to the games. He said something to the effect of, "You want to talk about elite programs, LSU is an elite program. I don't know about this place."
...when the heir apparent is passed over for an outsider or when the choice is finally made between two possible heirs, the coach not chosen usually has to go, for the program's sake as well as his own. They can be great guys with all the good will in the world and it's still going to be awkward.
I don't necessarily agree that Casteel was the heir apparent. He seems to be content being a career coordinator. Bacon says that about Casteel in the book (though I'm not sure what he's basing that on, since he never actually talked to Casteel). Casteel has been considered a top DC for a while now, so if he wanted to be a head coach, he would have tried to position himself for a head coaching job much earlier on. When Holgorsen was brought on as the HC in waiting, he asked Casteel and all of the defensive staff to stay. I don't think he would have done that if Casteel was a candidate for the job that eventually went to Holgorsen.
I think Casteel agreed to stay on because he didn't anticipate that working for Holgorsen would be any worse than working for Rodriguez or Stewart. I think he realized Holgorsen was a dick as the year went on.
Fickell might take issue with this analysis. Am I the only one who sees his staying as co d-coordinator as emasculating?
I was thinking about Fickell as I wrote that. I was also thinking about Carr/Miles.
Maybe I've misread the situation but I'll be surprised if Fickell actually stays. I think he'll get a HC offer somewhere and I expect him to take it when it comes.
I don't think it's emasculating, and I don't even think most people see it that way. Keep in mind that Fickell is only 38 years old, whereas Meyer is 47. If I were him, I would relish the opportunity to stay on as an assistant and learn from one of the best coaches in the game. Fickell was unexpectedly thrust into the top job out of necessity. He probably wants to be a permanent head coach at some point, but he's not ready now.
Fickell has two options at this point. Go out and try to basically replicate the path of Brady Hoke or stay home and wait for Meyer to have more health issues (aka get caught nailing grad students by his wife). The issue with replicating the path of Brady Hoke is you have to struggle to avoid a career killing school. All it takes is one mid major school with a shitty AD and your career can be killed early on.
Whereas at tOSU he is the DC of the top school in a top talent producing state. All he has to do is put good defenses on the field and make it clear he's growing as a coach and he has a solid shot at replacing Meyer or jumping right into another BCS job in a few years.
I'd say Fickell is fairly smart to hang out at tOSU until he is in his early 40s. At which point if Meyer looks like he'll be a long term fixture then Fickell can see if any of the bigger schools are hiring. Or if Meyer looks to be heading rapidly for retirement, he can wait.
According to Bacon's book WVU offered Casteel a small raise and a contract to stay. Michigan (read Bill Martin) refused to match either of those things.
The difference between the UM and WVU offer was only $10k, IIRC. Surely Michigan with its $262 million dollar stadium rennovation and multibillion dollar endowment could find $10k to match WVU's offer? If I were Casteel I would have felt insulted.
What are we talking about, a 3 or 4% difference in annual salary, with Michigan having the advantage in terms of national profile and resources? If he wanted to be at Michigan $10,000 wouldn't have made a difference. If he wanted to be at Michigan he wouldn't have made it a bidding war or listened to counteroffers. If he wanted to be at Michigan, he would have been at Michigan. If Rodriguez really wanted him, he wouldn't have let 10,000 stop him. Just like a corporation, the powers depend on the front line guy to propose the deals that they need, to tell them what needs to be done. They don't sit back and get in blind bidding wars.
More important than Casteel for Arizona is that Tony Gibson and his distinct style of yell-coaching will be presiding over a secondary that finished 118th in pass defense in 2011.
and then he still sucks.
The nerve of him. Giving everything he had as the head coach of Michigan football, with all of his contributions. What an asshole. I love wishing our ex-coaches ill will.
How old are you, three? I can understand people not being happy with the records RR had while at UM but anything more than that boggles my mind. The guy busted his ass for this program and did so under some pretty difficult circumstances. Many would even say he wasn't given a fair shake and yet still he tried everything he could to stay on as HC.
Honestly, I wouldn't have blamed RR if he chose to quit after the OSU game when most people felt it was inevitable that he would be fired. That would have given him time to find a new gig while the iron was hot instead of sticking with DB's timeline which made it impossible to do so.
I won't lie, I loved RR and supported him throughout his time at UM. I knew after the bowl game it was time for him to leave and I couldn't be happier at how things have turned out for UM. I can also understand why people weren't happy with the product he delivered here, but to turn that into a personal hatred so intense that you would wish that person fails in his lifes work is insane to me.
Even if they do suck, it still won't matter. He'll just blame his players.
This is great news. Best of luck to him in AZ.
I am very glad for both Rich AND the board. Because either way the issue of what might have been will be settled if JC heads west. If the defense sucks then the faction that thinks it wouldn't have matter will be vindicated. If the defense does well (and i think it will) then the people like me who think JC would've made a huge difference here will have their day.
BTW...just got home from New Orleans and need to rest up and dry out. My 52 year old body just took a very nice three day pounding of too much food, too much booze and not enough sleep. But it was SO worth it......
Barwis, Magee, Dews and Casteel! But who's going to play drums?
I hope Michigan plays Arizona in the Rose Bowl someday.
Admittedly, I don't ever watch West Virginia but their defense is far from impressive tonight. Clemson has oer 300 yards and the first half isn't over yet.
there is one thing you can bet the house on, the zona offense will be fun to watch.
remember, the only reason why we have D. Rob and D. Gardner is because of RR.
Said it better myself. I have hated Lloyd with a passion for many many years and my hate just continues to grow.
This topic goes here http://forum.goazcats.com/
It's an easy enough mistake to make. I myself will be tempted to do a full page writeup when they get curbstomped by Colorado.
For the record though, good luck to RR and coach Lombardi-er-Casteel.
don't be a jerk.