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November 30th, 2012 at 11:20 AM | Sympathy For The Bagger (Score:5 Normal)
Everyone Murders
Everyone Murders's picture
Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 572

If the ESPN story can be taken at face value, the sentence seems unduly harsh (not just "harsh").  The guy lost his job, goes to prison, and has a permanent record, a ton of notoriety, undoubted familial stress, and you have no sympathy for him?  C'mon man. 

The teabagging was an impulsive, stupid, disgusting, and criminal act to be sure.  Especially for a 32 year-old.  And deserving of punishment (in my mind on the order of a buttload of community service).  But if everyone who did an impulsive stupid act is an "asshole" for life, then I suppose the world is filled to the brim with assholes for life.   

It's probably worth noting that the victim here (who is undoubtedly a victim) got so shit-faced that he passed out in public and had no memory of even being at the scene of the crime.  The people who put burger wrappers on him are technically guilty of assault and battery.  Should we throw those "assholes" in jail too? 

Justice without context is no justice at all.

  • "Of course I care about that stuff.  To the point of irrationality.  It will always be Michigan first, cancer second."  Jim Mandich (RIP)
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November 30th, 2012 at 11:29 AM | He gets all that... (Score:2)
Njia
Njia's picture
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6050

And free lunch in Tuscaloosa for the rest of his life.

"If life is the road, then Ohio is simply a place to stop for gas." -- Scott Burgess, Detroit News, 9/16/2010
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November 30th, 2012 at 2:21 PM | Ummm, yeah (Score:4 Normal)
JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

So someone gets drunk and has no memory of being at a crime scene, yet others witnessed an unwelcome sexual advance.

If this is a drunk girl at a frat party does it change your attitude? This was sexual assault.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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November 30th, 2012 at 3:49 PM | Where to begin? (Score:3 Informative)
Everyone Murders
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Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 572

I'm just responding to the second and third sentences because I'm having difficulty interpreting the first sentence of your reply.  I certainly don't think that any of this "teabagging" stuff is OK, and my post certainly did not say that.

Anyway, the answer to your question is yes.  When you change many of the facts my attitude changes.  It wasn't a drunk girl, it was a drunk man.  It wasn't at a frat party, it was at a burger joint.  If it was a girl at the burger joint, it's a hard call for me because the "sexual" nature of the assault is more questionable.  It probably makes me think the crime is worse, but I'd need more information.  If it's a drunk girl at a frat party (a private place) then my attitude almost certainly changes.  Now you've got a girl surrounded by a bunch of guys in a non-public area.  That seems like a bit different animal.  How much my attitude changes depends upon the facts (and I'd want to know more about any hypothetical before deciding how much my attitude changes). 

To take an extreme example, if the teabagging victim was a young child here, I think the punishment should be much, much more severe.  On the other hand, on several occasions I've had friends grab my ass (technically "sexual assault" in some states) during a group photo and really didn't think much of it.*   Context matters.  The same way that many are (rightfully, IMO) pointing to the defendant here's age.  It matters to me that the guy was 32 - if he was 19 I'd probably view the incident differently. 

None of the above is to defend the teabagger here.  He did a wrong and stupid thing, and is suffering the consequences.  The bottom line is that IMO you can be sympathetic to someone without condoning their actions. 

*Didn't think much of the grabbing, that is.  My opinion of my ass isn't at issue here.  Yet.

 

  • "Of course I care about that stuff.  To the point of irrationality.  It will always be Michigan first, cancer second."  Jim Mandich (RIP)
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November 30th, 2012 at 4:00 PM | OK I didn't phrase my reply well (Score:3 Normal)
JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

And I agree that context is everything. But let's say the only thing that changes is the victim is now female instead of male. Does that change your thought at all?

My point is that it shouldn't.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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November 30th, 2012 at 4:14 PM | That's a tough question. (Score:2)
Everyone Murders
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Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 572

In theory, it seems the gender of the victim should not make a difference.  It's a tougher question than it seems, though.  On one hand we have gender-power issues but on the other hand we have a societal trend of ignoring/denying sexual assaults on males.  While sensitive to the historic gender-power issues, I'd err on the side of saying it does not make a difference.  

Consider this, though.  If the victim here was a woman, the burger employee likely doesn't just walk by laughing.  And people don't cheer and egg the teabagger on.  The teabagger likely gets his ass kicked before he gets his sack anywhere near her face, and gets thrown in the alley with his teeth knocked out.  Yet, all-in-all, everyone ends up better off than what really happened.

  • "Of course I care about that stuff.  To the point of irrationality.  It will always be Michigan first, cancer second."  Jim Mandich (RIP)
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November 30th, 2012 at 4:20 PM | It sounds like we actually agree here then (Score:3 Normal)
JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

And I think harsh sentancing by the judge is a step in the right direction. I agree with you that society sees this as not-as-big-a-deal because it was a male victim.

I think your 2nd paragraph is a better result. And maybe, societally, sexual assault on males will be seen as enough of an issue that the scenario in your 2nd paragraph happens no matter the victim.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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November 30th, 2012 at 9:59 AM | Sentencing and punishment are all over the map (Score:3 Normal)
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 5175

in the American justic system, but I'm glad that some kind of example is being made of this guy and the act. The fact that a lot of young people think that this kind of thing is okay, or even that they sleeping drunk LSU fan deserved it, is really troubling. One also can't forget where this kind of thing originates, in a sort of disdain for one's enemies that is also. . . ungallant to say the least. We can all do better. 

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:04 AM | in a sort of disdain for one's enemies that is also... ungallant (Score:3 Normal)
Don
Don's picture
Joined: 06/30/2008
MGoPoints: 19380

One of the best measures of a culture is how it treats those who are defenseless, such as the mentally ill, the terminally sick, or prisoners of war.


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November 30th, 2012 at 10:16 AM | Which is why I am disgusted (Score:1 Flamebait)
1484
Joined: 06/21/2010
MGoPoints: 14413

Which is why I am disgusted by all the MSU hate on these boards.  These people can't help what they are.  Shame on us all.

Hail.

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:33 AM | 33 Years Old! (Score:3 Normal)
Two Hearted Ale
Two Hearted Ale's picture
Joined: 06/10/2011
MGoPoints: 447

You didn't say specifically that the Alabama fan is young but it's worth pointing out that he is 33 years old and married with a kid. He's way beyond "young and stupid".

Something else worth noting is that there were a lot of people who witnessed the event and no one did anything to help the LSU fan who appeared to be dead. It is more evidence to my theory that the south sucks.

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:39 AM | Better be careful. My uncle (Score:1)
michfan6060
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Joined: 01/22/2011
MGoPoints: 1247

Better be careful. My uncle Cletus said the south will rise again.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

- Vince Lombardi

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:58 AM | Your Uncle Cletus (Score:4 Normal)
Sopwith
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Joined: 06/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1658

totally sounds like a slack-jawed yokel.

"You know, for a bartender/bookie, you're pretty judgmental."

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:00 AM | I agree with almost (Score:5 Normal)
Trolling
Joined: 02/22/2012
MGoPoints: 27

I agree with almost everything you've said (especially your username) but it's important to remember that groupthink and the mob mentality are very powerful situational factors that can influence the judgement of people everywhere, not only in the south. The more people you involve, the more morally disengaged everyone can become. And, of course, everyone being drowned in alcohol doesn't help.

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:51 AM | What should they have done? (Score:-1 Overrated)
GetSumBlue
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Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 292

What should those people have done to "help" an idiot who was drunk and passed out? Block the guys sack from touching him? This is kind of ridiculous.

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November 30th, 2012 at 12:11 PM | Read The ESPN Story (Score:3 Normal)
Everyone Murders
Everyone Murders's picture
Joined: 12/14/2010
MGoPoints: 572

It's not like this was some instantaneous act.  It played out over a matter of time, and the guy was giving plenty of notice as to what was about to go down.  I'm assuming you don't have that info in asking your question.

So with that context, the answer is the bystanders should have intervened, harshly, and said "look, we know this dipshit is passed out in public, but you can't put your scrotum on his face".  If necessary, they should have physically restrained him.  In no event should they have cheered the primary assailant on in his battery of an unconscious person.

(To be clear, I'm not attacking GetSumBlue here, but once you read the story there's plenty of blame to go around here.  The biggest serving goes to the teabagger, but the people filming it, laughing, egging it on, etc., all also acted shamefully.)

  • "Of course I care about that stuff.  To the point of irrationality.  It will always be Michigan first, cancer second."  Jim Mandich (RIP)
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November 30th, 2012 at 3:58 PM | I saw the video (Score:-1 Trolling)
GetSumBlue
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Joined: 09/07/2011
MGoPoints: 292

I saw the video, in its entirety. Personally, I wouldn't have done anything, even now. If the tea bagger was causing physical harm to the guy via a beating or something, now that's a different story. To me, this is disgusting, but not really worth my time.

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November 30th, 2012 at 5:41 PM | Your theory needs work. (Score:1)
User -not THAT user
User -not THAT user's picture
Joined: 06/05/2012
MGoPoints: 364

You should spend some time here.  There are a lot of things I don't like about living in the south, but if you think the behavior of a small group of wasted 'Bama fans is indicative of an entire region of people, you couldn't be farther off base.  Even most of the Tide fans I know (and in Atlanta there are A TON of them who manage to find work here) are generally collegial folks who are glad to talk up their own program, but absolutely won't mind sharing a drink with you while you extoll your own.

Google "Kitty Genovese".  Stuff like this happens all the time, in all locations, and in varying degrees of seriousness.  This was a vile act which shouldn't be excused and being that I am someone who has had his share of alcohol-related arrests, I'm going to go ahead and claim with Absolute Moral Authority that yes, the 'Bama fan got what he deserved and should consider himself damned lucky that he was given the opportunity to plea-bargain his way out of sex offender status.

But to say that something like this could only happen in "the south" is patently absurd.  There are dirtbags everywhere.

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November 30th, 2012 at 1:14 PM | This is a very sad case of (Score:2 Normal)
Amaizeinblue
Amaizeinblue's picture
Joined: 01/18/2011
MGoPoints: 289

This is a very sad case of mob mentality or herd behavior. The part that bothers me the most is when what looks like an employee of wherever they are walks by while the guy is humping the LSU fan with his testicles clearly hanging out and does nothing, he even looks at whoever is filming this as well. Also, at no point does anyone bother to check if this guy has a pulse or not. I wouldn't do something like this to my worst enemy let alone a complete stranger because he's an opposing fan. For all those people saying this is too harsh, he was probably given this harsh a sentence knowing he would mostly likely get a lesser sentence through good behavior and opting to take some sort of program and not see as much jail time to learn that this isn't something you just get slapped on the wrist for. Kudos for having the balls (pun intended) to lay them down on this idiots proverbial face.

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:12 AM | 2 years so he'll probably (Score:2 Normal)
michfan6060
michfan6060's picture
Joined: 01/22/2011
MGoPoints: 1247

2 years so he'll probably serve like 5 months at most when you factor in good time. Now listen folks I've been known to be a drunk asshole, but don't go slapping your balls on someone's face.

Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.

- Vince Lombardi

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November 30th, 2012 at 10:58 AM | The ESPN article (Score:4 Normal)
Sopwith
Sopwith's picture
Joined: 06/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1658

says 10 months if he completes a "boot camp" the judge recommended.

 

I'm ambivalent about the sentence.  If you read the story, his life has been turned upside down, and the guy has a kid.  On the other hand, would anyone be howling about a harsh sentence if the victim here was a passed-out drunk girl?  They might be howling the sentence wasn't steep enough.

"You know, for a bartender/bookie, you're pretty judgmental."

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:06 AM | 2 years is a long time.What a (Score:1)
redwhiteandmaize
Joined: 02/04/2012
MGoPoints: 1058

2 years is a long time.What a terrible National Championship game that was anyway.

"Are you an official here?Because you've officially given me a boner."

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:11 AM | Lesson to be learned here. (Score:5 Normal)
MaizeAndBlueWahoo
MaizeAndBlueWahoo's picture
Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 11914

Lesson to be learned here. Don't get so wasted in public that you pass out in public.

I mean, yes, that too, but I think the real lesson is, don't get so wasted in public that you think it's a good idea to stick your nuts in a stranger's face.

"We've beaten Michigan the last four years.  So where's the threat?"

- Mark Dantonio

Blogging the Virginia Cavaliers at http://fromoldvirginia.blogspot.com/<

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November 30th, 2012 at 2:22 PM | Exactly (Score:3 Normal)
JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

Saying "don't get so wasted that you pass out in public" is saying that this guy was asking to be teabagged.

Again, gendering it here, is a drunk girl at a party asking to be sexually assaulted?

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:14 AM | No Empathy (Score:4 Normal)
Hemlock Philosopher
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Joined: 02/12/2009
MGoPoints: 1280

He's a grown-ass man. This guy got what he deserved. I do feel bad for the wife and child who will have to suffer through his stupidity though. 

Brewer. Wolverine.

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:25 AM | To me, the most appalling (Score:3 Normal)
Brhino
Joined: 09/08/2009
MGoPoints: 1367

To me, the most appalling thing in that story was not the teabagging, but the fact that the group encountered a guy so drunk that they were seriously unsure if he was even alive or not, and their response was to screw around with him and them leave him where they found him.

By comparison I had a party a couple years ago where one of my friends did drink way too much, pass out, and get teabagged by another friend.  The difference is we also took care of him, cleaned up his vomit, and kept tabs on him through the night to make sure he was not in serious trouble.  Nobody bothered to do that for the victim in this case, so I have a lot less sympathy for the defendant.

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November 30th, 2012 at 4:48 PM | Maybe not to you and your friends specifically (Score:2 Normal)
M-Wolverine
M-Wolverine's picture
Joined: 10/04/2009
MGoPoints: 39217

But in general for the thread....when did dudes all suddenly get the urge to rub their balls on another guys face? Anyone can see why you wouldn't want it done to you....but why would you WANT to do it?? When I was in college you didn't want to pass out around any markers. What changed that guys suddenly aren't getting enough male on male scrotum contact?

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

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November 30th, 2012 at 4:58 PM | You wouldn't understand (Score:3 Funny)
Njia
Njia's picture
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6050

It's a Southern thing.

/s

"If life is the road, then Ohio is simply a place to stop for gas." -- Scott Burgess, Detroit News, 9/16/2010
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November 30th, 2012 at 11:28 AM | The only reason I can see him getting such a stiff penalty (Score:1)
WingsNWolverines
WingsNWolverines's picture
Joined: 04/27/2011
MGoPoints: 220

is that the judge must of ruled this as sexual assault. It involves the unwanted contact of physical violation but to me it does sound very harsh. 6 or 8 months sounds more appropriate not 2 years the guy didn't kill anybody.

We hate Michigan State. We don't like Penn State too. We don't care for Minnesota, Wisconsin or Notre Dame but we all hate O-S-U.

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November 30th, 2012 at 12:16 PM | Touché (Score:1)
Drbogue
Joined: 07/22/2011
MGoPoints: 410

Touché

In Hoke we trust...

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:09 PM | Depends (Score:1)
oHOWiHATEohioSTATE
Joined: 11/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1371

who it is.

If an OSU fan divorces his wife are they still brother and sister?

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:34 AM | I'm sorry but that is a ridiculous sentence for (Score:0 Overrated)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 855

a stupid prank.  No way there should have been jail time for that, let alone two years.  Only in the South.

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:45 AM | Maybe (Score:1 Normal)
joegeo
Joined: 12/09/2009
MGoPoints: 199

Maybe if you do it to your friend,  then you can just be considered a huge asshole playing a stupid prank (and hopefully have a friendship terminated).  However, I agree with the decision that putting your balls on a stranger's face should result in jail time....  though 2 years does seem excessive.

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November 30th, 2012 at 1:12 PM | So if I'm just "horsing around" (Score:5 Normal)
jabberwock
jabberwock's picture
Joined: 07/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3589

and discover your 15 yr old daughter passed out at a party it's ok if I just put my penis in her a few times?  As long as i don't kill her or anything right?  Oh, and have some freinds video/upload it too?  

Cool.

The gender, age and degree of sexual conduct might differ, but it's all in the same category.

2 years is a pretty lenient end of the spectrum sentence considering what's at the other end.

Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.

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November 30th, 2012 at 1:22 PM | Those situations could not be more different (Score:1 Insightful)
93Grad
Joined: 07/26/2011
MGoPoints: 855

and that is a preposterous argument. If you think those situations are even remotely analogous I don't know what more to say to you. 

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November 30th, 2012 at 2:07 PM | oh theres plenty more to say (Score:5 Normal)
jabberwock
jabberwock's picture
Joined: 07/04/2008
MGoPoints: 3589

You don't think it's in the sexual misconduct category?  That makes them analogous, which is precisely why this was prosecuted as a crime.  
One end of the spectrum is an adult putting his genitals on a helpless adult's face, one is an adult putting his genitals inside another (equally helpless) person with more serious circumstances.
 Welcome to the spectrum of sex offenses.  
This is a relatively lenient senctence (out in probably less than a year) as opposed to forcible rape of a minor which can mean inprisonment for the rest of your life.  

I don't know what more to say to you.

Love & Hate are horns on the same goat.

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November 30th, 2012 at 2:24 PM | I agree Jabberwock (Score:4 Normal)
JeepinBen
JeepinBen's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 9572

What if he did this to a woman instead of a man? it's still sexual assault. Men can get sexually assaulted by other men, it happens. That's what happened here.

 

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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November 30th, 2012 at 5:51 PM | Only in the south? (Score:1)
Louie C
Joined: 11/16/2009
MGoPoints: 2034

I believe in places in the north and possibly Michigan, once he gets done with whatever sentence he would receive, he would have to register as a sex offender. That's a much worse fate than working at the Olive Garden.

"It's the only place to get the inside story on Wolverine football, so blee bluhh tahh!" - Bo

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November 30th, 2012 at 11:41 AM | The guy should not only be (Score:3 Normal)
RedGreene
RedGreene's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 1329

The guy should not only be humiliated that he has to spend time and prison for such a stupid act but also that his bald-headed giggle stick is almost too small to take out of his pants.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=337SEmLIZx8

Yes I got him a gift. He had a kidney stone. You piss a rock through your pecker, you deserve more than just a pat on the fucking back.

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November 30th, 2012 at 12:59 PM | I hope he enjoys his two year (Score:0 Flamebait)
Amaizeinblue
Amaizeinblue's picture
Joined: 01/18/2011
MGoPoints: 289

I hope he enjoys his two year stint in Pound Me In The Ass Penitentiary...

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November 30th, 2012 at 12:35 PM | DirecTV (Score:4 Normal)
Njia
Njia's picture
Joined: 09/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6050

Maybe we're all missing it, but this is a real life ad like "Don't wake up in a roadside ditch"...

When you get really drunk, you black out. When you black out, you get stupid. When you get stupid, you might teabag someone. When you teabag someone, it will be posted to YouTube. When it's posted to YouTube, you'll be arrested, lose your job, wind up in prison for two years and wait tables at an Olive Garden. Don't wait tables at an Olive Garden.

"If life is the road, then Ohio is simply a place to stop for gas." -- Scott Burgess, Detroit News, 9/16/2010
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November 30th, 2012 at 1:06 PM | Two years is absolutely (Score:1 Normal)
TheGhostofYost
TheGhostofYost's picture
Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: -7276531

Two years is absolutely ridiculous.  4-5 months at the most would have been appropriate.

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November 30th, 2012 at 2:45 PM | Some people chop down trees (Score:3 Normal)
Run 2 Daylight
Run 2 Daylight's picture
Joined: 09/01/2009
MGoPoints: 2384

Some people chop down trees that fall on their house, others place their hand on hot stoves, and then some do things like this. It's a rough life if you're not that bright. 

Go Blue!

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