Just beat these guys...
does one normally change in response to success?
Just beat these guys...
Agreed. I'm sick of hearing how "shady" all of the SEC recruiting and scholarship abuse is, particularly Bama, LSU, and UF. We have a chance to show that it doesn't matter, and the good guys (homer sentiments abound) can win. Go Blue, September 1!
I was googling this story and came across this website. I always wondered why ever team and fan is so concerend with SEC recruiting. It just always seams that the teams who play the best are always the ones who are the cheeters. Good luck on Sept 1st!
Great! I wonder what who this might be! RDT/WiaB is that you with your third account?
I joke, but welcome to you, sir! (Assuming of course you are a man)
Not sure if serious and have no idea what you are talking about
I really wish the NCAA would come down on the SEC. It's pretty obvious at this point that there is a lot of shady business going on down there and they just ignore it. Ohio and USC both got hit for stuff that is relatively minor compared to what Alabama and Auburn are doing. While schools from other conferences are lossing scholarships and postseason play the SEC is winning MNCs and oversigning like there's no tomorrow.
Providing a player's family with a house isn't exactly minor, but your point is taken.
It seems the NCAA is willing to overlook a semi-public auction for Cam Newton, massive oversigning and questionable elimination of players to open up still more scholarships, and now transfer of entire families to get kids fake grades....about to get questionably political here.....Pretty soon they'll be shopping for high schools like Rush shopped for pain med docs.
If you are referring to Reggie Bush, USC didn't provide him a house and was never accused of doing so. The program was found guilty of not being aware of the private financial dealings with an agent of a very high profile player. It was a groundbreaking ruling. So far it doesn't appear that it is serving as precedent given the relatively light penalties Ohio got for allowing Terrel Pryor to run free and take overpayments from boosters for his signature, awards, and used equipment.
The NCAA doing what the NCAA does: pick and choose who gets nailed and who doesn't using arbitrary standards.
Rereading my post I see I did accuse USC of providing the house and I strand corrected. It is my understanding, though, that an assistant coach was fully aware of the arrangement. To me the really offensive part of the story is Pete Carroll's squawking about everyone being punished for the misdemeanors of 1 player. It's my guess that those USC teams were as dirty as the Miami and Oklahoma teams of teh 80s were.
I have a good friend who went to Auburn and is from Alabama. He even complains about how Alabama gets away with all of this...every one down there is in it together. Seems to be working as most of the latest schools on probation are BIG (Us, OSU, and the PSU disaster)...if everyone is with you, it makes it easy.
Won't someone please think of the children and their brains!?!? Oh wait, concussions and what not. Ah well, just win baby... and uhhh... don't pay them. Seems legit.
So, who are you?
Can you talk some shit about our incoming freshmen based on 1:14 of grainy youtube clips please? I'll hang up and listen.
Why don't you tell Coach Mattison who he should be recruiting in 2014 because I mean obvsly, ammirite?
For the record - I am not you. I like you though. You're alright with me. What do you think about LTTs knee bend? I mean do you think he has more or less knee bend than is needed to become academic all conference? I mean I am just a lowly middle school gym teacher, but i think he has the foot quickness to get mostly Bs with a few Cs mixed in for good measure, but what do I know? That's why I am asking you. Can you tell me things that you just thought of about things you know very little about? PLEASE??!
Looking good too, buddy. Not fat at all from what I can see.
Magnos, how do you feel about this young man's upside? Does he have a football body?
Me and you have a lot in common. I mean, we both have our passions in life. I teach high school physics and am very passionate about it. I write Stephen Hawking probably like 5 to 10 times a day to tell him about my sweet ideas. If you haven't already you should probably write a blog about our football recruits I mean because you know so much about football recruits. Kind of like me and physics. That would be really cool.
"God damn you Walter! You fuckin' asshole! Everything's a fuckin' travesty with you, man! And what was all that shit about Vietnam? What the FUCK, has anything got to do with Vietnam? What the fuck are you talking about?"
Yeah, that sounds a bit like something someone would say about you
Doesnt just happen in the SEC. In 1999 (I think) the much heralded QB Justin Zwick's entire family moved from Massilon to Canton so young Justin could play QB for the NorthEast Ohio HS football factory Canton McKinley instead of a mediocre Massilon squad. Justin's dad was "lucky" enough to get a job with the city of Canton (for two years) which made the move possible. And following Justin's matriculation from McKinley he attended the Ohio State University where he failed miserably to live up to expectations.
Zwick transferred to Massilon Washington as a sophomore for to play for a better football program. He may have been recruited by Massilon HS which is kind of shady, but I don't blame a student and his family for transferring HS to get a better HS experience.if it is on the up and up. Kids transfer HS all the time for academic or athletic reasons. The Wangler kids are transferring from Royal Oak Shrine Catholic to Warren De La Salle primarily to play in better football competition.
But when a college coach steers a recruit to another feeder high school (in a different state) to get taken care of academically (i.e. shady grades), you are talking a whole different ballgame.
His dad did get a job in the Athletic Department conveniently so he could transfer without having to sit out a year. Also, Massillon is a school that was notorious for recruiting players from other schools and other shady activities.
You are right that this situation is at a much different level than transferring to a different local school district.
He was originally from Orrville, just SW of Massillon. He transferred to Wahington HS, home of Shawn Crable and Herein Conley. His older brother was a QB for the Vest at YSU when they won their last title in 97.
Who is Herein Conley? What year did he play for the team? Is he brothers with Gareon Conley? Cousins?
/yes I am aware it was prolly a phone typo/auto-correct
Yeah it may be redundant, but it must be said again.
First double post in probably a year! Got a Gateway Timeout then posted again.
Nothing to see here.
Was Justin Zwick not going to make grades? The implication that this article is stating isn't that they would keep in a feeder school, it's that the feeder school will keep him eligible and make sure he has the grades to go to Alabama. That would indicate academic fraud. A school bringing in players has always happened. De La Salle is bringing in John Wanglers kid for his Senior year. The bringing in of academically borderline players to keep them eligible to go to their connected university is much different. Sick of it.
"......make sure he has the grades to get into Alabama."
Just thinking about that made laugh. How bad would grades need to be to NOT be able to "get into Alabama"?
De La Salle is a private school and can recruit all they want. Typically, public school are barred from doing the same.
I don't know what the exact guidelines are for private schools, but private-school coaches usually get very defensive if you suggest that they recruit players. Even if it's technically allowed (I'm not sure if it even is), it's considered a dirty tactic.
I'm pretty sure LSU did this with Craig Loston a couple of years ago. In his case it was done to avoid the Texas standardized test required to graduate. I suspect a similar dynamic may be at work here.
Florida does have the FCAT and it can be bothersome for some individuals to pass. My nephew made the minimum score on his second try and was allowed to graduate. Lots of athletes relocate to different states due to that test.
where Dj Fluker and Julio Jones came from. Not sure if it's illegal or just working the system.
If Julio Jones came from there, it's obvious that the school doesn't care about grades. That guy could barely muster a whole sentence when he got to Bama.
He don't need no damn sentences, man.
Like Ricky Williams shy..
Moving across state lines, having to quit your job and find another in an area where you don't know anybody to be taken care of academically? It may be on the up and up, but it sure looks shady.
We've been Godwinned!
I didn't, nor would I ever, neg for an opposing viewpoint. I actually upvoted you when I saw you were negged down. Your point is very valid. If this were a one time shady event, I would dismiss it. It seems that, in the SEC, shady things happen more than in most conferences. You will never hear me say shady things only happen in the SEC, but they do seem to push the rules further than any other conference.
a) We mods don't label or rate posts. Other users do. We don't have time or inclination to read every post and label it. There's like three of us, and two of us are drunk at any given time.
2) You can change your settings so that you can read stuff that is rated as -1.
d) You're that guy who shows up at the party uninvited and complains about the music, aren't you?
Hartselle or metro Birmingham would be better choices.
Anniston. From all accounts Anniston HS a football factory.
And why Foley HS in Alabama? There are no other high schools in his school district that could provide educational support? Where is it documented that Foley HS is some kind of academic power that can help teach a troubled student in one year what he needs to know to be able to succeed in college? Where is it documented that Pensacola HS isn't looking out for their students' best interests? And most of all, how would you know any of this?
Pensacola HS wouldn't allow him to take extra classes? Should a student in academic trouble be taking extra classes he may not be prepared for? Taking a whole bunch of extra classes in a student's senior year is a red flag for the whole thing being dirty and the motivation behind the NCAA rule changes in 2016. Is the goal to get eligible or to be prepared for college? For example, how can a student possibly take geometry and algebra at the same time? There is a natural order for students to learn many subjects especially math and science.
It is not illegal for him to transfer high schools. It is illegal for a college coach to steer him to a high school. I'm sorry, but this whole story stinks of shady grades and dirty dealings for Alabama to get a recruit eligible and Foley HS to get a star athlete more than a bitter ex-coach.
Hes going to a school that is better academiclly that will allow him to take extra classes to make up for previous bad grades.
OK, so the kid couldn't handle a regular high school academic schedule, so now the plan is for him to take an overloaded schedule? I'm sure everything will be handled above board.
I Bleed Crimson Red: truly an institution in the world of journalism and investigative reporting. Is that where Mike Wallace and Bob Woodward cut their teeth?
I have no dog in the Alabama/Auburn rivalry and don't know much in the details regarding the Reuben Foster transfer, but I do know that Auburn HS is recognized as one of the best high schools in Alabama, and I doubt he transferred there to get "eligible."
As I said before, I don't think there is anything wrong with kids transferring to different high schools to seek better educations or athletic competition. But I do think there is something extremely wrong with college coaches steering kids to high schools to get eligible and cut corners on their education by getting grades they didn't earn.
I don't have a dog in this fight either, but I think it bears acknowledging that these coaches & recruiters have had the opportunity to see a lot of prospects at a lot of high schools over the years. They've seen athletes face the challenge of getting and staying eligible and how that has played out at dozens of high schools with their various requirements, coaching staff, teachers, special programs, support systems and athletic-academic relations. Their knowledge of high schools probably extends pretty far beyond which ones cut athletes the most slack.
There are a number of things that can make a school a better or worse fit for an aspiring athlete whose grades/credits aren't where they need to be. Being "easy" isn't the only one. It's too bad that college coaches' professional interests mean that knowledge may be applied in shady ways, because they are probably the best informed people to advise a young person on this topic.
Ah, that's it! He's just one of those kids who needs a block schedule instead of traditional one. With the wonderful benefits of block scheduling, he'll suddenly be able to pass eight classes in a semester after not being able to pass six before! And of course, there are absolutely no schools in the state of Alabama that use block scheduling, so he must attend this school.
Please. He's going to this school because they'll cut him breaks that his old school wouldn't. If you don't believe that, I've got a bridge I'd like to sell you.
How you could possibly expect a student who could not handle a 6 credit load satisfactorily to now magically be able to handle 8 credits and raise his GPA?
I could buy the "block schedule will help him" argument if he were taking the same number of classes - I taught at a school with block schedules, and in some ways it can help kids manage their time better, because they don't necessarily have as much homework per night. But not when he has two additional classes in his courseload. That pretty much offsets the gains from the schedule switch. And when it's final exam time, good luck passing eight of those when you couldn't pass six before.
Actually I would say it almost definitely doesn't happen at Michigan.
See: Burbridge, Aaron and Dorsey, Demar
Michigan didnt even try to gamble with Burbridge potentially being ineligible and we all know that Dorsey was denied even after he worked his tail off to make the minimum standard.
I imagine this will not result in an NCAA violation, because Saban seems like the kind of guy who scours the rule book to find whatever loopholes he can (e.g., his use of the medical exception). I'm sure this kid's grades will dramatically improve at his new school. The how and why that improvement will occur is another story.
The riddle has been solved!
treyanastasio = THE_KNOWLEDGE
Foley isn't renowned for their tutoring/mentoring program. If it truly was about academics I think he would be able to find a tutor in Pensacola to help his situation. Seems shady.
Please don't get excited, because nothing will be done. Saban cold pay a recruit on camera while smoking weed..Nick.... The recruit dropped the money and I didn't inhale........ NCAA...... Sounds good Nick.
This definitely looks shady, but I also find it depressing that some basic competency standards for HS athletes (a 2.3 GPA, 10 core classes in english, math, and science, etc.) are still not met by around 1/3 of all football players entering college. I know this will come off as arrogant, but the fact that these standards are causing consternation with large swaths of HS football players is one of the more depressing things I've read today.
It's very frustrating. I teach at the university level, and truth be told, there is nothing more frustrating than dealing with athletes. Not all of them are poor students, some are fantastic, but as rule the propensity for poor performance is something to be aware of. That and the expectation of getting a good grade.
"I need to get an 'A'"
Then earn your grade. Some people pay they way through college. You get scholarships to do it. The least you can do it show some respect for the extraordinary opportunity that you've been given.
Opportunity? Blasphemy! These poor men deserve, nay, need an additional $2000 a month.
I mean, every student at Michigan has made the university the same amount of money as Denard, right?
Why should athletes get special treatment because they make the university millions more in profits than regular students?
They do get special treatment - it's called a Full Scholarship. This means FREE education to the University of Michigan, not to mention free food (lots of it - over $1 million worth annually for the football team alone), exclusive and useful study resources like tutors, and oh yeah, rent checks.
Rent checks ARE your stipend. Each athlete gets $1000/month for rent alone. Most places where the athletes stay (usually closer to South Campus) go for $600/month tops. Where does the other $400+/month go? In their pockets.
Ever wonder why someone like Denard, who gave the speech talking about his rough roots, can be seen taking videos in the Sugar Bowl locker room on a new iPad? Or why he can rock expensive Polo sweaters that most regular students can't even afford at basketball games? Rent checks.
NCAA athletes are not hurting for cash.
If students are now allowed to major in "Dance" and "Theater", couldn't we solve this problem by allowing athletes to "major" in their sport of choice? I'd imagine many aren't destined to become nuclear physicists, nor do they want to be, so why force them to take classes they don't want to? It is such a farce for the NCAA to push the whole "student-athlete" mantra.
So I'm not 100% sure of your tone, but while people can certainly major in "Dance" and "Theatre", they still have to take other courses beyond their discipline. I'd be fine with athletes earning a degree in "exercise science" or whatever you want to call it, but they still should have to take english, math, science, history, etc. courses like everyone else, and pass them. The issue here seems to be that a subset of athletes can't even reach the minimal bars set for them in the classroom, and yet they still get passed along because of their football skills. All those dance and theatre majors (and basically anyone else) can leave school whenever they want and try to make it in their field without a degree, and some are successful. Athletes have that route as well, and while the barrier is incredily high for them to succeed this way, if they are going to go the "easier" way through college, then they have to meet those standards.
I know they have a million responsibilities, but so do other people who find a way to get through their courses. And again, they don't need to be geniuses, but when I was at UM I noticed that some athletes in my courses truly worked hard to earn the grades they did while others figured it was just HS+.
There's nothing arrogant about that. It's ridiculous how many kids out there put all their eggs in the athletic basket. There are 310 million people in this country and fewer than 4,000 roster spots in the four major sports leagues (and those spots aren't reserved for Americans, either). To plan for sports to be your career long-term is madness.
Reading what constitutes a "bona fide move" in the eyes of the Alabama High School Athletic Association certainly makes this seem like it was no small task to make this happen, and because Paige was indeed academically ineligible in the spring makes it definitely seem like that is at least part of the motivation (as well as Pruitt saying that Foley would "take care of him academically")
I have to wonder if the OP is onto something here - will the inequities across districts and schools be exploited, at least in some places to make as much talent as possible eligible under the new rules? I could definitely see transfers happening among those "on the line" academically as well if they were that motivated to play at the collegiate level. After all, not every school's 16 core courses and 2.3 minimum GPA in said courses are alike, and sadly, it seems like it could very easily become a game in itself of sorts unless it is monitored closely.
I'm from Pensacola, and my youngest brother played football for Washington High. He is going to HATE this kid with every single ounce of his being. I can't say I blame him either. What a douchey way to teach your son that there is no accountability for your actions.
Also, Troy Faucheaux (the AD) was one of my football coaches when I played for Woodham High in Pensacola. He will (hopefully) sort this out as best as he can.
If only Alabama coaches used their powers for good, world peace would be inevitable.
Alabama is NCAA royalty their allowed to purchase national championships and no ones gonna do anything about it.
If your kid was struggling academically, so much so that his future plans were threatened, and someone who knew about various high schools suggested he transfer to a place where he's likely to struggle less, what would you do? A lot of parents would transfer the kid. I'd sure consider it.
Don't we all know someone who chose a less-selective college because they thought they'd have a better shot at med school having top grades from East Back Porch University than with mediocre grades from Fancy Private? Same deal.
Yeah yeah, I get why it COULD be shady, and I understand that it's problematic that the person giving the advice stands to benefit from the transfer. I understand the concern that "better able to take care of you" could mean "will give you a free pass on all things academic." But we don't know all the details, and I wouldn't trust a disappointed former high school coach to deliver them fully either.
I imagine it would be difficult as a parent to make a decision on allowing your child to cut corners on their education in order to receive a scholarship to a university.
But I think this is separate from the issue of a college coach steering a recruit to a high school to potentially bend rules academically to get a kid eligible.
I was wondering how the parents could afford to get new jobs in a new community, but it looks like the schools are only 54 minutes away from each other.
While it is certainly shady that the college coach is telling the player where to go in order to get good grades, the practice doesn't seem that much different from basketball players who transfer to private prep schools their senior year or even a fifth year of H.S. in order to get eligible. Athletes that go to those private academies never end up ineligible.
Exactly. We hit on much of the same points, but I started typing before you posted (didn't want you to think I was trying to steal your point).
I get that the general reaction here is "OMG that's outrageous", but the OP omitted something substantially important from the narration of this story: Foley, AL is less than 30 miles from Pensacola, FL. Yes, the family would have to actually move to Alabama, but that's it. No need for parents to change jobs, not leaving friends, etc. This relocation requires him to move a shorter distance than many kids who live in Detroit and travel to attend Catholic Central or Brother Rice.
The reasons for a student to transfer to a Brother Rice or CC are different than the reasons stated in this story. How many times have you heard of a college coach steering a recruit to transfer to a feeder high school to get "taken care of academically?"
Foley HS is not just some random HS. The Alabama assistant worked with the Foley HS head coach in the past. Numerous players on the Alabama roster have come from Foley like Julio Jones, DJ Fluker, and Robert Lester.
Come on, man. Don't go there. That happens all the time in any state that had school of choice. For lots of reasons, but most often to get a better education (which often translates into better grades). Take out the fact that this was across state lines and an Alabama coach is involved, and this is pretty much a non-story.
I have never heard of a college coach steering a student to transfer to another high school. And a better education does not always translate to better grades. And when did Foley HS become some kind of academic power?
It happens, but the better question is why are you outrages about a kid being steered to another school if that other school will get him a better education (which it undoubtedly will because it will help him go to college for free).
This Alabama assistant coach was part of a staff at Hoover HS that was involved in academic fraud involving unauthorized grade changes and pressuring faculty into better grades for their athletes. How is that better education? All evidence points to the conclusion that there is very likely little educating going on here.
Other than one item of past history, you have nothing to base that on. It's just your opinion; stop pretending it's more than that.
This recruit is going to be taking a heavier credit load at new school to get eligible. No school of "better education" would do that with new transfer student with a bad academic record. It is your opinion and assumption this is "better education" with absolutely no evidence at all. If anything you are the one pretending here.
You have no idea that it isn't. Again, you're just running with your opinions like they are facts.
Edit (to address your edit): Who cares? That also happens all the time. I'm willing to bet at least one of the players you mentioned moved, at some point in their youth (even if just within the district), to attend that school. Which also happens all the time, for academic AND athletic reasons. Happened between the two high schools where I grew up in MI all the time; just usually in middle school.
I see no problem with a student transferring high schools to seek a better education or athletic opportunities. But I do see a problem in a college coach steering a recruit to a high school to get "taken care of academically." This may or may not involve academic fraud, but this Alabama assistant coach coached at Hoover HS when it was cited in an academic fraud case involving athletes, unauthorized grade changes, and pressuring teachers to give athletes better grades.
Just as plausibly as your allegation is that Foley is a better school and by "taken care of" he meant get a better education.
This Alabama assistant coached at Hoover HS when it was involved in an academic fraud case involving unauthorized grade changes and pressuring teachers on grades for their athletes. Is this assistant more likely to help steer a recruit to a place with better education standards (that may or may not make it more likely to be eligible) or a school that is going to bend rules and inflate grades to get the recruit eligible?
And I don't understand how a better education gets a kid eligible in his senior year. Dropping a kid from community college into an Ivy League school is not going to get the student better grades. Better teachers may be able to help the student get better grades with time, but I highly doubt that process would involve him taking a higher credit load (6 credits to now 8 credits) and able to be done in less than a year.
It absolutely can help that late in the game, especially if the new school has the resources to provide tutors. Like I said, it's oh so easy to twist "help" into allegations of "academic fraud", when it's just as plausible that help literally means help. Of course the Alabama coach wants him to become eligible so that he can go to Alabama (to play football and get a college education), but you've yet to make a compelling (or any?) argument why that's a bad thing for the student, when the alternative is not going to college at all.
You keep glossing over the only past history we have so far in this Alabama assistant's profile: he was on a high school football staff that was involved in academic fraud. It's easy to twist help into academic fraud when you were ALREADY involved in academic fraud. Much easier than twisting one of Alabama football's feeder schools into an academic powerhouse with special needs tutors that will allow a problem student to achieve at a higher level while taking a heavier credit load.
What good is college if the student is not prepared to take advantage of it? What service is that actually providing the student besides an opportunity to play college football?
So everyone who commits a wrong in the past always repeats it, got it.
Regarding being prepared - you have no evidence that this move will NOT help him become better prepared. All you have is a belief that since this particular assistant was involved with something untoward in the past that he just HAS to be doing it again.
But there is a higher degree of suspicion when someone who commits a wrong in the past is now suspected of same crime in the present. I don't get how you can shrug off a past history of academic fraud when suspected of allegations of academic fraud. I don't see how hard that is to see.
If a person with a history of armed robbery is caught at the scene of a potential robbery with a gun wouldn't that person be the prime suspect?
It's not hard to see, but it's easy to ignore.
Prime suspect? Maybe. Inadmissible at trial? Almost certainly.
I see no problem with helping a kid attend college and pursue college athletics. It may seem shady or unfair... but realistically so are the societal issues and disadvantages that a lot of kids face. (Not saying that's the case here.
But at the end of the day another kid going to school and playing college ball is good for the student and essentially harms no one else.
assistant coach is heading down a slippery slope. It starts by moving recruits to a different school where they may get preferential treatment with grades. Next thing we know the assistant coach is clubbing hobos which as we all know eventually ends with five dead hookers. We have all seen this before.........
Allegedly* killing five hookers.
Who is downvoting a post that doesn't see a problem with kids getting help attending college?
There are some wierdos on the internet boy I tell ya...
Pretty sure its your handle.
I don't think it's that because I've had numerous upvoted posts etc. But maybe you're on to something.
Favorite part of only visiting this site via the app: down voting and up voting is absolutely meaningless to me.
Couple things. First I want to say I hope the best for the young man and hopefully he will be able to become eligible through tutoring or greater engagement.
I looked around the Hoover HS / District website and I didn't find the EOG and violence disclosure metrics that are commonly posted at least in NC. If someone can find these and compare them to school in Pensecola it might provide some insight into the kind of help he will be getting.
With all of the litigation going around, and the blatant cheating by multi-million dollar businesses disguised as "athletic departments," I can't see the NCAA lasting in its present form for more than about five years, or maybe as many as seven.
Sooner or later, they are going to have to just admit that they are a business that exploits employees who don't even get to call themselves employees, and that they have as much to do with education as an order of french fries does with France.
Considering how many players major in "eligibility" and either don't finish degrees or get worthless ones, why should they even require students to go to class? Why not just drop all pretense and hire well-paid football players to represent "their" schools?
The NCAA needs to decide whether they are all about the money or all about the ideals for which they pound the bully pulpit. As it stands now, they are about whatever benefits the administrators who run the NCAA and its member schools want the most.
Most of all, the NCAA's true "mission" has nothing to do with the welfare of any "student-athlete."
I think you guys are missing the point. Isn't the assistant coach directing the kid to a school that will give him "fixed grades"? Isn't that against the rules? Some of my fellow MGoBlogers love to type lol
There is absolutely no evidence of that.
Why is every SEC comment always in quotes? "Cams dad got "help", "story", Nick allowed him to "transfer", Nick didn't influence the professor he just "clarified and issue". Crazy!
Bama is starting to give me that slow burning and itching like hemorrhoids. Usually accompanied by the mud butt. Not that I know what that feels like.
Come on your have to admit the entire situation sounds kinda shady, but even if the bama fan is correct, seems a little like preferential treatment don't you think?