OT: Advice for young couples (actually, mostly for guy fans)

Submitted by StephenRKass on

This is way, way OT, and certainly irrelevant to many of you. I feel compelled to give some gentle advice that may be helpful to one or two of the readers here. The reason is the struggle I see in my own daughter's marriage, significantly caused by sports.

I myself have been a Michigan fan for many years, attending games when I can, making it out to several Rose Bowls, and watching Michigan football and basketball games whenever I can catch them. Oh, and obsessively reading mgoblog. So my daughter knows casual fandom.

My daughter was ok with this, and has even been to games with me. However, she didn't really know what she was getting into when she got married to a diehard sports fan. My son-in-law's life revolves around sports. He loves watching games all day Saturday and all day Sunday, along with whatever games are on TV Thursday, Sunday, and Monday night. And basketball games the others nights. He knows tons of stats for the NFL and NBA, and watches all things Green Bay, and goes to Bucks and Brewers games regularly. He watches the WWL, and follows several blogs. And his addiction to sports is breaking up their marriage.

I actually don't blame him:  I think my own daughter was clueless about what it meant to be married to an obsessive sports fan. I can't predict whether or not their marriage will last. Because following sports is so much part of his life, I don't think it is fair to ask him to change. But I also don't know that she is prepared to live life with someone whose every waking moment revolves around sports and cars.

My advice? Just make sure, if you are heavily addicted to sports, that your potential mate really understands how far your addiction goes. And that your mate either shares your addiction, or is fine with doing most things separately. Because if your partner expects to be doing different things with you on the weekends, and you expect your weekend to go mostly to following sports, there is going to be a problem.

wahooverine

December 18th, 2015 at 11:28 AM ^

I know you're joking, but you have an inadvertant point.  Being single for the past year I've totally amped up my sports consumption in all mediums. It's sort of like reverting to my natural state. Now in my 30's I'm much more aware of how much of my time is devoted to sports (watching, reading, fantasy sports, mgoblog). It's a lot. Whenever I've had a girlfriend or dating someone, even "cool" girlfriends who likes sports, I have to dial it back. Most women don't want the sports obsessed nut. They want a well-rounded, accomplished guy. At the end of the day you have to realize it's a form of entertainment, and you're obsessing over the accomplishments of other men. No woman, no matter how cool, really wants to sit there all day staring at the tv with you or hanging at the bar with all your buddies week in and week out.  Sharing a love of the same sport or  same team with a girl is awesome and brings you closer to together, but bottomline, balance that love of sports with other things in your life for optimal results with the ladies.

pescadero

December 18th, 2015 at 10:04 AM ^

My advice? Just make sure, if you are heavily addicted to sports, that your potential mate really understands how far your addiction goes.

 

When it comes to getting married:

 

1) Any habit/foible/issue/personality trait you don't like about the other person will NOT get better with marriage. It will almost certainly get worse. If you can't deal with that - don't get married.

 

2) If you or your partner aren't willing to make the number one priority in your life your marriage - don't get married.

 

Note: I've been happily married for 15 years.

 

azian6er

December 18th, 2015 at 10:19 AM ^

I think this is a good rule of thumb, however, as a marriage progresses, the novelty wears off, and the mundaness sets in.  When this happens, people tend to gravitate towards things that they enjoy more i.e. addicitions, hanging out away from house, sports, etc.

Therefore, IMHO,  it is truly impossible to gauge how far your addicitions may carry you after you have experienced 3-5 years of a "normal" marriage - and you are looking for other things to keep you happy/ satiated.

I have been married 5.5 years and have gone through much counseling with my wife as I have battled addiction and beat it - and am finally fixing my marriage.

 

EDIT: Just re-read what you said about habits getting worse.  That hits the nail on the head.

 

pescadero

December 18th, 2015 at 10:25 AM ^

I think this is a good rule of thumb, however, as a marriage progresses, the novelty wears off, and the mundaness sets in.

 

Marriage is WORK. It requires constant attention and upkeep. If you aren't moving forward, you're moving backward.

 

I think most marriage problems are the result of unrealistic expectations.

People think marriage will "fix" relationship problems. People think they and their partner won't change. People think they and their partner will change. People think once they're married they're done with the work and can just coast. People think the infatuation of early relationship is "love". People have a fairy tale view of love and relationships, and all too often bail because no relationship can meet their utopian ideal.

 

 

 

azian6er

December 18th, 2015 at 10:39 AM ^

yes believe me, I know.  It is a vocation in the truest sense of the word. 

At the same time, however, sometimes couples don't put the requisite amount of work in the beginning which sets them up for harsh realities and many disagreements in the long run.

I totally agree with you on all accounts. I think the "instant gratification" nature of us Gen Xers and even moreso with the younger generations is setting many couples up for devastation - as there is always a simple fix, way out, alternate - right at their fingertips.

This is a scary proposition, and I agree with you, unrealistic expectations can level a marriage real quick.

ijohnb

December 18th, 2015 at 10:48 AM ^

don't think it can be said that "your marriage" in the abstract can be the most important thing in your life though. To say that is to reenforce the idea that you can simply "will" the relationship to work as you did in its original stages. I think it is your overall performance in the "contract" portion of the marriage that sustains marriage in the long wrong. I.e. fiscal responsibity, parental responsibility. I think a good marriage is more a bi-product of upholding your end if the bargain than trying to keep your marriage front and center in your life to the detriment of other responsibilities that determine what kind of partner you are able to be.

In reply to by ijohnb

TheCool

December 18th, 2015 at 11:13 AM ^

So you're saying fiscal responsibilities (work) and parental responsibilities (kids) should take precedence over your marriage? No. No, they shouldn't.

ijohnb

December 18th, 2015 at 11:37 AM ^

discount these things as though they are petty bothers when in fact they are the foundation for a lasting union. The real meaning of a marriage cannot be found or tested by the size of the smiles in Facebook pictures, it is the work in the trenches that defines commitment. I believe that the viewpoint you advance is fairly common though, and goes a long way in explaining the near 50% divorce rate in the country.

In reply to by ijohnb

TheCool

December 18th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^

Taking precedence as I said and balancing the three are not the same. I said they, kids and money, should not take precedence over marriage. Did you bother reading? Lack of understanding is part of why so many marriages fail.

In reply to by ijohnb

mgomiller

December 18th, 2015 at 11:20 AM ^

I have been married for only 5 years, but I think that this is correct.  There are responsibilities that are held by each party in the marriage.  These responsibilities were traditionally gender defined, but have become more up for negotiation in recent years.

My advice would be to be sure to define those responsibilities before getting married.  As with any other endeavor in life, a plan is needed in order to succeed.  

Example: My wife is great with finances, but I am horrible with them.  I am a very good cook, my wife can only make a few dishes and cannot follow a recipe to save her life.  We agreed early on, that she would handle the finances with my consultation and I would handle the cooking with some exceptions.  It may seem a small thing, but I know that it has led to a much smoother relationship.

The Beatles sang "All you need is love."  They were wrong.  You need love, planning, respect, security, mutual interests/commonalities, communication, and so much more.

M go Bru

December 18th, 2015 at 11:48 AM ^

You need to have compatible views about money, politics, and religion.

You need to be understanding, tolerant, and flexible.

Don't get married too young or too quickly.

Your wife will do things with you prior to marriage that she won't do with you later......

......and I thank God my wife is the most selfless person I have ever known!

tjohn7

December 18th, 2015 at 10:17 AM ^

"If you or your partner aren't willing to make the number one priority in your life your marriage - don't get married."

Amen! If you're doing it for the right reasons marriage is always better than being able to watch a ton of sports.  I am able to be a season ticket holder because on the other 40 weekends of the year I do stuff my wife wants. Sure, I'd love to watch every game of every team like I did in college.  But that's not fair to my wife and straight up isn't healthy.

stephenrjking

December 18th, 2015 at 10:47 AM ^

This is basically correct. I will say, to point one, that it is possible for people to change. Sometimes in a drastically positive way. However, it is extremely unwise to EXPECT that change to occur. When one gets married one should assume that their spouse will remain basically the same person they are, and if there is a characteristic that is unsustainable, that should bring pause.

On point two, this is basically correct, though my wife and I share a higher priority than our marriage that a cursory glance at my sig line should make obvious. The net effect is the same.

Quibbles aside these are both excellent pieces of advice.

pescadero

December 18th, 2015 at 11:21 AM ^

I will say, to point one, that it is possible for people to change. Sometimes in a drastically positive way. However, it is extremely unwise to EXPECT that change to occur.

 

Absolutely.

 

People can change - but don't expect it.

 

The corollary? You can't change people - they can only choose to change themselves.

ZooWolverine

December 18th, 2015 at 4:54 PM ^

First, I've had multiple divorced pastors at my churches over the years--it may depend on the denomination, but it's hardly disqualifying for all. Anyone who expects their ministers to be perfect is going to be disappointed.

Second, I don't think the sig line reference meant he was listing things in order of priority, just that we can infer God is the #1 priority--which is very different the priority of being a pastor. I would guess, probably even presume, that being a pastor is simply a way to serve priority #1, and that he would listen if called to serve in another way.

kehnonymous

December 18th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^

I mean, yeah, I'm posting on MGoBlog with >1000 pts so it's pretty clear I don't have the answers to life in general but as someone who's been in a very happy and loving relationship for the last 12 years - the number one thing I'd add is this:

Your significant other isn't always going to be loveable and neither are you.  But you still have to love that person even when he/she isn't deserving of it.  There've been plenty of times I can't stand to be in the same room or house as my girlfriend.  (And on the flip side, she may or may not have (correctly) verbally smacked me down when I may or may not have exasperatedly flung a dish at the wall during the second half of the OSU game - not super proud of that, but I digress)  But every time we've had a fight we've come out stronger than before because we worked it out like adults and it ultimately reaffirmed our committment to each other.

Note that this isn't the same thing as 'if you can't accept me at my worst than you don't deserve me at my best' which is shorthand for 'It's my prerogative to be a horrible person' - it's an acknowledgement that you and your partner are both flawed people and you both commit to making each other better people, albeit in fits and starts. 

UMAmaizinBlue

December 18th, 2015 at 9:58 AM ^

I never saw marriages broken by this, but I did see the first signs of this problem in college, mainly when my ex hated when I got crazy about UM football...on a Saturday...in the fall...while we both attended Michigan...including the 2006 season.

Anyway, now I'm engaged to a woman who understands me and even agrees to but season tickets when we can barely afford it AND she sat through the entirety of the OSU game with me in the cold because I told her that is what fans do, and she needs to earn and embrace her OSU hate like so many of us have. Love of my life.

robbyt003

December 18th, 2015 at 9:59 AM ^

I told my fiancee that 09/01 to 12/01 is off limits for the wedding because of college football and no March or April wedding because of college basketball.  I have no idea why anyone would get married during football season, because the guests are just going to try and find a tv or watch the game on their phone during the wedding.  

hainesjr

December 18th, 2015 at 10:31 AM ^

My now wife really had an issue with this when we were planning our date for the wedding - I had to explain to her that it is not that guests don't want to be at the wedding, but that there are conflicting interests and with technology today, people will be distracted. It worked out way better to not have a fall wedding

My cousin got married in 2004 on the MSU weekend - I was constantly in my car listening to the radio rather than enjoying the wedding.  To this day, our family still is annoyed that she got married on that day

Badkitty

December 18th, 2015 at 12:35 PM ^

Maybe my opinion on this is not that popular on this blog, but I have a hard time comprehending this idea of blocking off 4 months of the year during the football season for a possible wedding because it's football season.  

Sometimes it's hard to get a reception hall or a venue until later in the summer or early fall. And frankly, if I had to make a choice between watching a bunch of young men whom I don't share anything with except for the fact that they went to the same school as I did play a game versus getting married to the woman that I love and want to spend the rest of my life with, I'd have to choose my wife.  

Furthermore, if and when you have children, do you not attend their recitals, plays, games, parties, tournaments, etc just because of football?  As your kids get older, their demands and schedules will also intrude on your football watching habits.  Sometimes I have to miss things because of work but it always bothers me hearing the disappointment in their voices or see it in their eyes when I tell them I can't make it.  But at least I can rationalize to myself that I'm providing for them when I do that.  I'm not sure how to rationalize missing out on some special event involving my children because I need to watch or go to a football game.  

amaizenblue402

December 18th, 2015 at 10:01 AM ^

I agree on that sentiment as I myself, admittingly, am addicted to sports. My wife even makes comments about how addicted I am. It does negatively affect a marriage by having so much time wrapped up in sports. It's something that definitely competes with time spent with my wife. It's hard to change, but I know I need to do it. I'm sure my wife would appreciate it if more time and passion were directed towards her.

atticusb

December 18th, 2015 at 10:42 AM ^

Let me just say that our first born was three days old when I made a pilgrimage to the cable company's local office to pick up our first DVR... This was back in 2006, and I hadn't even really thought of getting one till that point.  Only took the first few hours of fatherhood to realize that DVRs save more than marriages....

azian6er

December 18th, 2015 at 10:14 AM ^

An addiction is an addiction regardless if it's porn, drugs, sex, or sports.

Addicition is a disease which many cannot control on their own and which ultimately "looks" selfish to their spouse/mate/family.

I dont know if your son actually has an "addicition" to sports - as in - he cannot stop watching it regardless of negative consequences to himself or others, but if so - then I think counseling is most definitely necessary.

Your daughter in law may feel ignored, slighted, unimportant, and ultimately supremely resentful becasue your son pays so much more attention to his sports than his own wife.  If I'm her, I totally get it.  The resentment just grows and grows until it is too much for the relationship to bear. Your son, if he loves his wife, needs to Stop this resentment in its tracks. And unfortuantely, the only way is to cut back on what's making her resentful (duh).

Your son is married to your daughter in law, not to Espn. He should truly introspect and attempt to value what means more to him.

/dr phil hat off.

speaking from personal experience too, on the addiction end.

 

 

TheCool

December 18th, 2015 at 11:32 AM ^

I think it's his son-in-law and daughter. I think it's unrealistic and selfish to expect him to change and limit something he loves. If she married a sports fanatic it's too late to complain now. The only way I can see this as his fault is if he completely hid his fandom, which seems completely unlikely. Lying about what he's watching and where he's going while watching and attending games isn't impossible but seems less likely.

StephenRKass

December 18th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^

First, yes, it is my son-in-law and daughter.

Second, you are partially correct that it is unrealistic and selfish to expect him to change and limit something he loves. But his fandom, to be blunt, is out of control. This is true for many young men. The fact he is 22 and married means he has to make some hard choices. (i.e., do I want to be married, or do I want to continue to follow sports to the same degree I do now). Where you are right is that you can't "expect" him to change. He doesn't have to change. This is who he has been. Having said that, if he doesn't change to some degree, if there isn't compromise, the marriage won't last.

I know he didn't completely hide his fandom. I think my daughter was a bit naive in her understanding the scope of his fandom. While I am not a fan of living together, as several readers have suggested, it possibly would have given her a better feel for how much sports someone in their young 20's will actually watch. The other thing is that when you're dating and courting, you aren't watching sports all the time. I know that when I myself got married, my wife and I looked to be transparent, and to warn each other about who we really were. I don't know that my daughter and son-in-law fully undertood how helpful it would be to have that level of honesty with each other.

azian6er

December 18th, 2015 at 12:23 PM ^

Ultimately, it needs to be decided by your daughter if there is any chance of reconciliation - or if her resentment is just too great to even try.  This would best be asked by a trained counselor.

If there is some residual hope left on her side to be willing to work on the marriage, then a course can be set to right the ship.  If not, then I think you know what is likely to happen, unfortunately.

I highly recommend some professional counseling for them - however, that is a decision that they need to come to on their own with the meddling of others (parents and in-laws included).

 

StephenRKass

December 18th, 2015 at 2:17 PM ^

I completely agree with you.

First, they both need to decide whether or not they want to put the work into their relationship to make it work. Second, they need to decide whether or not they are open to professional counselling. We can give advice, but realistically, we're too close to the situation, and neutral, impartial trained counselors can do things we can't.

One complicating factor, as mentioned elsewhere in the thread, is that my daughter is in the Navy. A vet in this thread commented on how difficult it was for him to come home from deployment to his wife. You aren't regularly communicating, you have each been living in a different environment, and then you come back together, and each of you have different expectations and needs. Adding to the stress is that guys in his workplace razz him about his wife being the one "wearing the pants" in the relationship.

Fortunately, the Navy is extremely aware of the strain on marriages, and counselling resources are available. There is still a stigma attached to getting help, but that seems the best possibility at this time. We're not meddling, but hoping (at a distance) that counsel helps them out.

Moe

December 18th, 2015 at 10:05 AM ^

And I have seen a few failed relationships in my time because sports took on a greater importance than a meaningful connection with someone.  I learned the hard way to have a better balanced life, watching a few games I really care about each week, while also devoting time with my girlfriend.  

The Mad Hatter

December 18th, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^

Hey, at least I'm not smoking crack and fucking the nanny.  Is that what you want instead?  Because if you take my sports away I'm going to smoke crack and fuck the nanny.

 

/In all seriousness though, he should probably dial it back a bit.

His Dudeness

December 18th, 2015 at 10:08 AM ^

Disagree. Your daughter is right.

Sports are an outlet. At they end of the day they are completely meaningless outside of an escape from what you HAVE to do.

I watch a football game or two on the weekends, usually just one and only in the fall. I even drive up to Michigan for most home games (from Louisville) and that makes me feel guilty.

Sitting on the couch and watching games all weekend as your wife runs around and does the day to day cleaning, cooking, etc is flat out wrong. "Obsessive sports fandom" is actually just laziness.  I love baseball too , but you dont have to watch every game in a season. I would ask your son in law if he understands proiorities and responsibilities. He clearly doesn't.

StephenRKass

December 18th, 2015 at 10:14 AM ^

His Dudeness, thank you. Well said.

As regards my daughter and my son-in-law, this has been building, and they are indeed going to start to get counselling. There are plenty of issues, and as you say, sports can be an escape. Not just from what you have to do, but from dealing with other things. Of course, my hope and my prayer is that the situation helps open the door to deal with dysfunction and other things. It doesn't help that my daughter is in the Navy, and when she gets off the Destroyer, wants some of his time and attention.