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OT: Adreian Payne returns for senior season with Spartans

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
#1
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
OT: Adreian Payne returns for senior season with Spartans

This will make MSU the early favorite to win the BIG. Going to be another great season of BIG basketball

http://www.mlive.com/spartans/index.ssf/2013/04/adreian_payne_announces_he_wil.html

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
#2
el522351
el522351's picture
Joined: 03/01/2013
MGoPoints: 184
Screw Paine

FML

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:00 PM
(Reply to #2) #3
david from wyoming
david from wyoming's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 2981
So mature of you.

So mature of you.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
#4
WMUgoblue
WMUgoblue's picture
Joined: 12/06/2009
MGoPoints: 12142
So they've got to to be

So they've got to to be ranked top 5 preseason right? That's a whole lot of talent returning but they have little depth unless Alex Gauna progresses.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
(Reply to #3) #5
lilpenny1316
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Joined: 11/19/2009
MGoPoints: 28721
Probably #2 or #3 behind UK and L'ville

All the pundits seem to love this team with everyone returning.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
(Reply to #3) #6
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
They'll probably be 3, after

They'll probably be 3, after Kentucky and Louisville, maybe 4 after UNC if Wiggins goes there.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:28 PM
(Reply to #3) #7
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
Yes, I would think top 5 for

Yes, I would think top 5 for sure.

3  5* stars and 2  4* in  the starting lineup. They will be formidable.

2 seniors a junior and 2 soph's in the starting lineup is a nice mix

Valentine and Trice coming off the bench is pretty good too. They need one of their Bigs to be serviceable, but with Kaminski, Guana, and the freshman they will find someone.

If ex Michigan target Russel Byrd ever gets it together they will have a nice 3 point threat.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:39 PM
(Reply to #20) #8
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2971
Michigan will also have three

Michigan will also have three 5-stars and two 4-stars in the starting lineup. Just think about that for a second.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:39 PM
(Reply to #26) #9
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
Oh yes, Michigan is loaded. I

Oh yes, Michigan is loaded. I wouldn't trade rosters with MSU, but with Payne's return they are going to be tough.

comparing 5 stars in regards to next season? IMO

McGary > Payne

GRIII > Dawson

Harris > Irvin

as for the others

Appling and Trice > Albrecht and Walton. Only because Appling is a senior.

Morgan > Costello. It's the senior thing again

Michigan bench > MSU bench

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
(Reply to #38) #10
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2971
State will be good.  They

State will be good.  They were good this year, and Michigan was better.  I don't see any reason to expect otherwise next year.  We're upgrading at every single position other than PG, and Walton should be solid.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:46 PM
(Reply to #42) #11
Bosch
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Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6680
How, exactly....

are we upgrading at shooting guard? 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:53 PM
(Reply to #77) #12
1 percent
1 percent's picture
Joined: 09/09/2010
MGoPoints: 11173
Stauskas will have a year

Stauskas will have a year under his belt and be able to make 70 out of 76 3balls next time it is raining on court!

Idk if it is as much of an upgrade at SG but have Sophomore Stauskas, levert and throw in Irvin for a big boy line up and I'd take that. Hardaway to me was a really good player but definitely a replaceable player.

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April 29th, 2013 at 11:01 AM
(Reply to #78) #13
Bosch
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Joined: 04/03/2009
MGoPoints: 6680
A lot of supposition in your....

post.  Perhaps we'll be better off.  I certainly hope so, but I think it is a reach to say with conviction that we are going to be better at the 2 even after losing a first team B1G player (coaches pick) at that position.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:45 PM
(Reply to #42) #14
gwkrlghl
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Joined: 04/13/2012
MGoPoints: 71
I dunno about us being better

We made it deeper in the tournament than they did but the season series was 1-1 with us winning by 1 at home and losing by 20+ on the road.

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:02 PM
(Reply to #88) #15
grumbler
Joined: 08/17/2011
MGoPoints: 8085
Win

Win more games + lose fewer games + against better competition  = better 

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:09 PM
(Reply to #88) #16
SysMark
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Joined: 11/15/2008
MGoPoints: 13931
we were also a lot younger

We were also a lot younger - the biggest reason for the 20+ road loss earlier in the season

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:35 PM
(Reply to #88) #17
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Head-to-head results don't

Head-to-head results don't always tell the whole story.  Sometimes a team is just a bad matchup.  Wisconsin went 2-0 against us, but I don't think they were better.  

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April 29th, 2013 at 7:13 AM
(Reply to #88) #18
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 30564
W-L column

A 20-point loss looks the same as a one-point loss in the W-L column.  I am going to go on NCAA Tournament results and say that Michigan was a lot better than Sparty when it counted the most.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:29 PM
(Reply to #38) #19
tbeindit
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Joined: 01/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1944
Appling is not a good point

Appling is not a good point guard.  He's a shooting guard who really doesn't shoot that well.  They put him in at point guard because he's insanely athletic, but he doesn't pass nearly well enough to be considered one of the conference's best point guards.  The minute he has to face a tough defender who can negate his athleticism, he struggles and does nothing.  I would take Walton & Spike all day over Appling, especially considering the shooters Michigan has on the outside that can nail a basket off a quick pass

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:06 PM
(Reply to #38) #20
willirwin1778
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Joined: 03/09/2013
MGoPoints: 100
What

What about Jabrill Peppers?

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:38 PM
(Reply to #20) #21
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Who was the third 5-star guy

Who was the third 5-star guy besides Payne and Harris?  Appling?  He hasn't lived up to it if so.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:40 PM
(Reply to #37) #22
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
Dawson

Dawson

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
(Reply to #39) #23
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Really?  I'm surprised.  He

Really?  I'm surprised.  He seems like a pretty raw talent to me.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:51 PM
(Reply to #43) #24
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
Dawson has an NBA body and

Dawson has an NBA body and NBA talent he just needs to put it all together.

He tore his acl late in his freshman year and  missed the NCAA tourney. His soph season was a bit of a disappointment, but I would expect a major jump up this season. He is a talent.

MSU may be better going small more often next season; Play Dawson at the 4 and get their more skilled players on the floor.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
(Reply to #3) #25
snarling wolverine
snarling wolverine's picture
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 42990
Everyone is saying that, but

Everyone is saying that, but I'm not totally sold on them as national-championship material.  I think they need to shore up the point guard position - they committed a ton of turnovers this year.  Also, defenses can key in on Payne more with Nix gone.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:33 PM
(Reply to #21) #26
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
Losing Nix is addition by

Losing Nix is addition by subtraction. He did more to clog everything up and slow down their offense than help them with rebounding and physicality.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:52 PM
(Reply to #28) #27
TheGhostofYost
TheGhostofYost's picture
Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2971
Are you being serious?

Are you being serious? Losing 10 points and 7 rebs a game isn't addition by subtraction.  Another guy on their team averaged 10 and 7, and his name was Adreian Payne.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:35 PM
(Reply to #28) #28
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
I disagree.  He made them a

I disagree.  He made them a tough matchup for a lot of teams (including us) with their two-big lineup, especially after Payne developed an outside shooting touch.  I think we match up with MSU a lot better with him gone.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:52 PM
(Reply to #32) #29
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
Yeah, this is what I mean.

Yeah, this is what I mean. Nix could be tough in the post, but he was wildly inconsistent. Even after he lost all the weight, he still couldn't move very well. In addition, since his range was so limited, MSU basically had to put him on the block, clogging things up for Harris and Appling, who are good off the drive. Payne has a much more offensively diverse game. He's more mobile and has range to the 3. MSU will be more diverse offensively and able to play at more than one pace. As for Nix's rebounding, Izzo's teams are never going to struggle on the boards.

He was a bad matchup for us, because we didn't have (at that time in the year) two bigs we trusted defensively. But MSU without him has a higher upside.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:55 PM
(Reply to #49) #30
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
To me Nix's biggest liability

To me Nix's biggest liability was pick and roll D. Anybody who got past MSU's perimeter D had an excellent opportunity for an uncontested layup. Aaron Craft absolutely ripped Nix a new one on dribble pentetration resulting in layup after layup.

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:50 PM
(Reply to #59) #31
MGlobules
Joined: 11/17/2008
MGoPoints: 16433
Yes; a micro-managed offense

and a meat-grinder D. Expect MSU to win at home against us by 5 next year, and us to win by 15 in A2. Nothing creative or fun about playing for Izzo.

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April 29th, 2013 at 7:17 AM
(Reply to #115) #32
Tater
Tater's picture
Joined: 08/13/2008
MGoPoints: 30564
Recruiting

That's another reason he is finding it harder to recruit.  John Beilein's offense is the "fun" offense, while Izzo is the stern taskmaster whose offense is more like work than play.  Of the two schools, Michigan is finally becoming the "destination" school again.  

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:23 PM
(Reply to #49) #33
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
But if it's true (as posted

But if it's true (as posted below) that Payne will remain at the 4, then that means a guy like Gauna replacing Payne at the 5, and that's probably a step down.

 

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April 29th, 2013 at 10:32 AM
(Reply to #70) #34
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
I really don't know that it

I really don't know that it will be.

I may be exaggerating the limits of Nix's game, but most players big enough to plausibly play the 4 or 5 are going to approach his production just as a function of being large men on the floor. Even if Izzo's not offensively innovative, Nix's absense frees up the offense from having a big blob on the low post clogging things up every position and potentially add something as a pick and pop player and in the open court, two things Nix could never do. 

He did give them a good post option when their offense got stagnant, but I think a lot of their offensive stagnancy (is that even a word) owed to his presence on the floor.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:03 PM
(Reply to #21) #35
CR7
CR7's picture
Joined: 10/21/2012
MGoPoints: 1585
I agree with snarling

I agree with snarling wolverine. I don't see them being better this coming season than last. In fact, they'll likely be worse.

I've never seen anything from Dawson that would make me think he's gonna accel at anything other than defense, rebonding and the occasional open-court jam. He's not an NBA player by any means as he's undersized at the 3 and not at all a scoring threat as a 2. The fact that he doesn't have long arms like Draymond Green means he can't even carve out a niche like he has. Athlete or not, I just don't see it. Never have.

Appling regressed as a Junior and I'm not sold on him improving this season. Harris is a good player and will be their best but if Payne has to play the 5, you won't see the best of him. Conversely, this means more Gauna and Costello, which is laughable TBH.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:07 PM
#36
NFG
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Joined: 04/24/2012
MGoPoints: 30699
Meh, we will be alright.

Meh, we will be alright.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
#37
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
MGoPoints: 2971
Damn.  Why can't we ever have

Damn.  Why can't we ever have a Top-20 pick big man return for another year? Oh wait...

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:34 PM
(Reply to #5) #38
steingr3
Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 1
Well, Taylor Lewan is a big

Well, Taylor Lewan is a big man returning for his senior season for you guys, but I get your point

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:13 PM
#39
Michael Scarn
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Joined: 01/21/2011
MGoPoints: 1603
Not worried:

Not worried:

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:14 PM
#40
BlockM
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Joined: 07/03/2008
MGoPoints: 28426
Bring it

Bring it on.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:14 PM
#41
ReadYourGuard
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Joined: 08/21/2008
MGoPoints: 33681
Well hell...they ought to be

Well hell...they ought to be the odds on favorite to be the highest ranked team in the tourney to lose in the Sweet 16....again.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
#42
gwkrlghl
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Joined: 04/13/2012
MGoPoints: 71
MSU's gonna be good next

MSU's gonna be good next year. Seems like with all the talent that's leaving the conference, MSU has a good shot to run away with the conference title

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
(Reply to #9) #43
HipsterCat
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Joined: 06/28/2011
MGoPoints: 2088
thats what everybody thought

thats what everybody thought about indiana this year but it'll still be close i figure. We should be as good maybe a better matchup with state, OSU is still solid, wiscy is always tough.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:37 PM
(Reply to #9) #44
HarBooYa
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Joined: 06/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2408
I think they look and feel a lot like...

...the post Sullinger osu team. Going to be good. I Ustinov whether they will be definitively great. I think we are in the same boat. Depends a lot on our new pieces and how we react to losing a team MVP. I think without nix they are a much different and less intimidating team but maybe more athletic.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:17 PM
#45
LS And Play
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Joined: 08/25/2012
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Interesting

Interesting how State's 50-50 guys almost always seem to come back and ours almost always leave. I know Harris and Payne let Izzo get the information for them rather than applying for an evaluation. I wonder what the guy tells them. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:20 PM
(Reply to #11) #46
Moonlight Graham
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Joined: 09/12/2011
MGoPoints: 6895
Theorizing that Izzo is lying to his players about their

NBA draft chances is a very RCMB-ish thing to do. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:27 PM
(Reply to #11) #47
Indonacious
Joined: 01/03/2012
MGoPoints: 7451
What about GRIII and mcgary?

What about GRIII and mcgary?

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:31 PM
(Reply to #11) #48
snarling wolverine
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State's 50-50 guys almost

tate's 50-50 guys almost always seem to come back and ours almost always leave

This isn't true. We had at most three 50-50 guys this year (Burke doesn't count - his decision was obvious), and two stayed. Last year, when Burke was 50-50, he stayed.  The year before, Morris left, so altogether that works out to three of five staying and two leaving.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:01 PM
(Reply to #25) #49
UMfan21
Joined: 09/28/2009
MGoPoints: 22970
Not to mention MSU has had

Not to mention MSU has had their share of early departures over Izzos career.



Marcus Taylor and Erazum Lorbeck come to mind. Probably others too.

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April 28th, 2013 at 7:09 PM
(Reply to #62) #50
jackfl33
Joined: 05/14/2011
MGoPoints: 426
Z-Bo

Z-Bo

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
#51
Cold War
Joined: 01/15/2012
MGoPoints: -3537
They are the conference

They are the conference favorite, but they're basically this year's team less Nix. I don't get the national title contender talk.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
(Reply to #12) #52
TheGhostofYost
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Joined: 04/20/2011
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They're going to need much

They're going to need much better PG play to get anywhere near a Final Four.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
#53
BlueReign
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So?

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
#54
Erik_in_Dayton
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Joined: 12/03/2008
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Good

We want the Big Ten to be strong.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
#55
SeattleWolverine
Joined: 11/07/2012
MGoPoints: 2643
2014...

I would imagine the preseason polls will have the B1G order as something like:

MSU

Michigan

Indiana

Iowa

Ohio State

Wisconsin

Purdue

Minnesota

Illinois

PSU

Nebraska

NW

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:37 PM
(Reply to #22) #56
Needs
Joined: 08/05/2008
MGoPoints: 7194
People seem to like OSU more

People seem to like OSU more than that. I don't entirely buy it. They'll be, perhaps, the best defensive team in the nation but you still have to put the ball in the hoop. They don't have anyone who's proven to be able to hit even a 15-foot jumper. But I expect them to be the 3rd favorite. The rest looks good.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:53 PM
(Reply to #36) #57
OysterMonkey
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OSU seems to run offense thru one man

Ross is probably going to be the man, and he has a lot of talent. I don't think they'll be any worse offensively this year.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:56 PM
(Reply to #36) #58
Erik_in_Dayton
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OSU will be very tough, IMHO

Ross and Thompson will help make up for the loss of Thomas, and they'll probably be better defensively than they were this year, b/c Thomas was their worst defender. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:09 PM
(Reply to #36) #59
SeattleWolverine
Joined: 11/07/2012
MGoPoints: 2643
OSU

I'm not sure how they are going to score at an efficient clip. I mean they will be a good team and maybe a great defensive team but without Thomas they don't really have too many guys who can score much on their own. We'll see. Maybe Ross steps it up. Or perhaps Scott or Thompson.

 

I think most folks will have MSU, U of M and Indiana predicted ahead of them anyway. Iowa is debateable I guess but I like them a lot for next year. They return basically everybody and they lost a lot of close games this year, 7 games by 4 points or less so they may have been better than their record indicated. Kenpom even has them finishing as #23 with their NIT run.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:58 PM
(Reply to #67) #60
OmarDontScare
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MGoPoints: 1800
OSU will be predicted to

OSU will be predicted to finish higher than Indiana who will take a big step back with the losses of Zeller, Oladipo, Watford and Hulls. They still have Yogi I guess

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:10 PM
(Reply to #22) #61
Ler
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 56
Switch OSU and Indiana

I agree very much with the majority of that list, but my personal opinion is that OSU and Indiana should be switched. OSU is going to have Scott-Craft-Thompson-Ross-Williams, (I'm assuming that Lenzelle Smith Jr. actually gets knocked out of the starting lineup and becomes their 6th man) which I think will be the best defensive team in the league and possibly the country. I think Ross can replace a lot of what they're losing in Thomas. The guy is a phenomenal scorer and Thomas was the weak link defensively, which has been the knock on Ross. On the other hand, outside of Smith coming off the bench, they're going to have a virtually non-existent bench. With regards to Indiana, I think they're really going to struggle. Even if Vonleh comes in and wins FOTY (which I do not think he will), they only have Yogi and Sheehy returning. It'll be tough to win games at Assembly Hall (as always), but they're going to struggle to get road wins. I see them going 12-6 or 11-7.

MSU will be tough as they have, in my opinion, the two best players in the league in Harris and Payne, but the rest of the team is very mediocre. They won't have great depth, they'll have average at best outside shooting and they seemed to have suspect discipline/chemistry this season. Overall, it should be a great season again and I very much like our position. I'm really excited about Walton and Irvin.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
#62
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 37504
heh.

RCMB's gotta be all "come at me brah" just now

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:33 PM
#63
LS And Play
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Joined: 08/25/2012
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Michigan State

Michigan State had a lot of hype going into 2010 as well, if I recall correctly. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:13 PM
(Reply to #29) #64
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
Exactly this

Exactly this, preseason hype means pretty much nothing. I say let the games be played and then we will see if sparty can live up to the hype.

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:01 PM
(Reply to #68) #65
OmarDontScare
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Meant something for us.

Meant something for us. Preseason Top 5 and finished #2

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:22 PM
(Reply to #94) #66
Trey'sTrey
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For the most part they mean

For the most part they mean nothing it is pretty much to hype up early games. Of course it is always amazing to be ranked high regardless of the time of year. Yes we were ranked top 5 and finished number 2, so there is some correlation, but Kentucky was also ranked #3 and lost first round of the NIT. Even if Noel stayed healthy they would have been a bubble big dance team.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:36 PM
#67
Perkis-Size Me
Joined: 11/30/2011
MGoPoints: 40692
Who cares? MSU has experience

Who cares? MSU has experience coming back, but so do we. We've got guys coming back who have played for a national title, so they won't be fazed by anything little brother throws at them. I'm confident Beilein will find a way to beat them at least once next year.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:37 PM
#68
ThadMattasagoblin
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It's a pretty big jump to

It's a pretty big jump to consider them national title contenders when they have basically the same team that lost in the sweet 16 minus Nix.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:56 PM
(Reply to #34) #69
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
Kind of disagree

I kind of disagree with that because the Sweet 16 isn't anything to scoff at in college basketball. I mean hell, look at us we lose to Ohio in round 1 in 2012 and make it to the national title last year. If you look at just the sweet 16 last year, you have to think they are on of the best teams going into the season, of course that all changes when the games start. Here is the list of last year's sweet 16:

Teams probably not likely to make it back: Oregon, Wichita State, La Salle, and, FGCU.

Teams that lost a lot and will have a difficult time: Miami(FL), Kansas, Indiana, and Marquette.

Now to the individual teams remaining:

Sparty - only lost Nix, who had his moments, but the only thing I remember him for is his ball-tap on Zeller.

Michigan- We lose Burke and THJ, but we have a more experienced roster now, and if Irvin and Walton are as good as advertised we can make another deep run.

Duke - Lost Kelly, Curry, and Plumlee, but will have a good recruiting class, and Coach K always seems to be in the hunt.

Louisville- Should be pretty good with Russ returning.

Ohio- Losing Deshaun Thomas, but will have a very good defense.

Arizona- Good recruiting class and returning some good players.

Florida- Returning a decent amount and have a pretty good recruiting class coming in.

Syracuse- lost MCW, but return CJ Fair, so they could be good.

 

If I had to pick 5 teams who could win the title at this point they would be, in order: Kentucky, Louisville, Florida, UNC, and Sparty. Of course this is April 28, so any speculation is pretty meaningless because there have been no games played yet.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:15 PM
(Reply to #57) #70
yoyo
Joined: 02/11/2011
MGoPoints: 1333
We added Mcgary, GRIII,

We added Mcgary, GRIII, Stauskus, Albrecht and Levert between those seasons.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:29 PM
(Reply to #69) #71
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
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True, but...

True, but it is not that big of a jump to think a team who reached the sweet sixteen, again nothing to scoff at, can win the national title. I guess the better one would be 2011 Uconn, even though their previous recruiting class had Jeremy Lamb.  I know we aren't supposed to care about them, but I think we have to agree they will be a top 10 team next year. We probably will start the season right outside the top 10, possibly 11 or 12,but after a few games when everyone can see Walton and Irvin, we should easily move into the top 10. Note, I am not saying we aren't a top 10 team because we are, but I feel the media and coaches will rank us around there because of Burke leaving.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:43 PM
#72
Elmer
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 5141
The difference between

The difference between Michigan and MSU will be based on which players take their game to the next level.  If McGary plays like Bill Walton circa 2013, Glen Robinson becomes an All-American or one of the freshman surprises, I like our chances. 

For State, if Harris becomes an All-American or someone else becomes a force, then Sparty will be tough to beat.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:49 PM
(Reply to #40) #73
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Bill Walton circa 2013?  The

Bill Walton circa 2013?  The guy's like 60 and has had a ton of leg surgeries.

I think McGary can probably do better than that.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:12 PM
(Reply to #47) #74
Elmer
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Joined: 04/22/2011
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My bad...should have said

My bad...should have said 1973.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:52 PM
(Reply to #40) #75
Young John Beilein
Young John Beilein's picture
Joined: 02/28/2012
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Bill Walton has lost a step

Bill Walton has lost a step or two.  I'd aim higher if I were Mitch. 

Edit: beaten to the punch.  Shoulda THROWN IT DOWN faster.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:02 PM
(Reply to #50) #76
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Very good recovery though.  

Very good recovery though.

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:43 PM
#77
El Bandito
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Joined: 11/29/2012
MGoPoints: 31
I'm not buying MSU making big improvements this year

From what I've heard, they were planning on moving Payne to the 5. That would nulify the major improvement he's shown by being able to step out and hit long jumpers.

If he continues to play at the 4, Costello or Gauna come in to the 5 which still leaves a major hole with Nix departing.

I think the only way MSU gets over what they did last year is if the recruits they have coming in can make an impact.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:50 PM
(Reply to #41) #78
LS And Play
LS And Play's picture
Joined: 08/25/2012
MGoPoints: 8423
They

They have recruits coming in? 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:03 PM
(Reply to #41) #79
spartanfan123
Joined: 02/15/2012
MGoPoints: 633
Izzo said Payne will play the

Izzo said Payne will play the 4 and even some 3, but not 5. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:58 PM
(Reply to #64) #80
El Bandito
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Joined: 11/29/2012
MGoPoints: 31
That's a good move for Payne

Thanks for the insight. I was thinking that they might try and go with a small ball line up with Payne at the 5 at times.

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:29 PM
(Reply to #79) #81
TIMMMAAY
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Joined: 09/08/2008
MGoPoints: 41347
That

Isn't Izzo's style. 

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April 29th, 2013 at 12:14 AM
(Reply to #41) #82
aanii
Joined: 08/11/2011
MGoPoints: 89
Kaminski

Everyone here seems to be forgetting about Kenny Kaminsky.  Kid is a stud and is fully recovered from shoulder (?) surgery and is a classic stretch 4 who can shoot and play inside.  He and Costello will replace Nix's minutes and make the team more athletic overall.  Costello really came on at the end of the year in his own right.  

No one seems willing to acknowledge that Harris was hurt all year and still won frosh of the year.  if he's 100% healthy he'll be scary good.  Schilling will probably redshirt, and the young guys will all be better - THAT is what will make them the favorite.  Not sure why that's so hard to understand.  Valentine will be more controlled, Trice healthy (also hurt all year), etc.  They have depth everywhere.  

Dawson is the real wild card.  Kid could be a lottery pick if he could learn how to shoot.  Right now he's just a freakish athlete...but not yet a basketball player.  if he puts in the time in the gym they will be tough to beat.

Give credit where it's due: they have a classic set up for a run: RS Frosh to Seniors evenly spread across the court and two bonafide stars.  

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:50 PM
#83
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
Dawson was terrible for the

Dawson was terrible for the last two months of the season.  Payne and Harris are studs.  Appling is terrible.  They also lose their ability to go big with Nix, Payne, and Dawson in the game at the same time and I also think that Walton will be better than Appling because that isn't hard to do.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:57 PM
(Reply to #52) #84
M_Jason_M
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Joined: 01/09/2013
MGoPoints: 466
Right

It's just that Trey Burke being awesome makes him look terrible even though he's pretty good.

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April 28th, 2013 at 3:55 PM
#85
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
I don't really think their

I don't really think their depth is that good.  Valentine turned the ball over a ton last year, Trice gotowned on screens, Byrd couldn't hit a shot or do anything, and MSU got abused in the paint when Costello or Gauna came in.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:01 PM
#86
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
We also gained 2 4 star and 1

We also gained 2 4 star and 1 5 star recruit in the offseason last year to vault us into the NT game.  It's hard to expect a team that didn't gain anybody and lost one of their starters to make it further in the tournament than they did.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:33 PM
(Reply to #61) #87
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
I agree that we did bring all

I agree that we did bring all those in and it without a doubt helped, but with what the other sweet 16 teams lost, they have a very good chance at making an elite 8/final four run, and once you get to that point almost anything can happen. Also, a lot will be dependent on how the teams are seeded in the tournament because that can make a huge difference

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April 29th, 2013 at 12:21 AM
(Reply to #61) #88
aanii
Joined: 08/11/2011
MGoPoints: 89
This may be difficult for you

This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but players actually improve from freshman to soph seasons.  Especially when they were injured for most of their freshman year.  an Improved Harris is a scary thought, and Valentine showed some pretty heady game in the last few weeks of the season.  He's very good.  

Why is it so difficult to give them credit?  you sound like the tyipcal rcmb whiners who bag on Mcgary for being old.  And Trey was a 3 star....stars don't mean shit.  Players play...doesn't matter how many stars they were arbitrarily labeled with in high school. 

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April 29th, 2013 at 10:23 AM
(Reply to #125) #89
Bleedin Maize a...
Bleedin Maize and Blue in Indy's picture
Joined: 04/26/2013
MGoPoints: 32
Improvement

 

Harris can improve all he wants but if he as an incompetent Appling running the point he won't get as many looks. Appling is a great athlete who is more of a combo guard being forced to run the point, who also struggles mightily when shooting the ball, I believe he had multiple 0-10+ games last year. Then add in that Payne is gonna want to "get his" and this team has the makings of a team that could implode if they struggle early and they lose chemistry. Yes give them credit now, but you also have to realize that guys plateau, a la Hardaway, and Appliing probably isn't going to get much better in the next year, especially in the areas that he needs to improve in: shooting the ball consistently and setting his teamates up. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:05 PM
#90
spartanfan123
Joined: 02/15/2012
MGoPoints: 633
I think the hype is relying

I think the hype is relying on some improvement by the young kids. The first summer is usually when players make their biggest jump. This will be the first summer for Harris, Dawson, Trice, Valentine, and Costello. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:23 PM
#91
School 4 the Gifted
School 4 the Gifted's picture
Joined: 12/04/2011
MGoPoints: 10329
It's easy for voters to forget....

McGary, Stauskas, GRIII, and Albrecht all are rising sophomores with one 1 year (OK, a LONG one year thankfully) of college experience.

Add in experience from Morgan, a developing Horford (with practically only one full year of game experience), another freshman phenom in Zak Irvin, and a solid freshman PG in Derrick Walton, a redshirt year from Donnal....I argue that this team may be a more complete team than last year. 

The incremental gains in experience and fabulous incoming freshman should keep us in the Top 5 discussion....but I really don't care if we are in that discussion early on anyway. 

I just hope we are in that discussion at the end.

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:37 PM
(Reply to #71) #92
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
We should be in the top 5

We should be in the top 5 discussion, but I don't think the media will see it that way, I mean how many games in the tourney were they against us? Once they see us play they will see the error in their thinking and, hopefully, put us in the correct spot.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:55 PM
(Reply to #71) #93
spartanfan123
Joined: 02/15/2012
MGoPoints: 633
I think Michigan will be good

I think Michigan will be good next year, but they do have a couple questions which will keep them out of the top 5. Mainly, replacing the POY at PG, a player that made everyone around him better and drew the defense towards him, leaving others with open looks. MSU dealt with that last year too when they lost an All-American and do-it-all player. 

You also lost the only 2 players that could consistently create their own shot. Stauskus can do that next year, but he needs to get stronger. Maybe Walton and Irvin can be that guy too. But you guys saw firsthand in the season how freshmen don't always show up for big games. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 4:46 PM
#94
ClearEyesFullHart
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Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 2756
Glad to hear Payne is back

They will not advance past the Sweet 16. The wonders hall curse lives on.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:05 PM
(Reply to #76) #95
Lampuki22
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Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 7229
I'm not sure

About a Wonders hall curse but what about the Mark Hollis curse? Ever since that douche essentially tweeted to Trey Burke to go pro save one away game the football and basketball programs are headed in different directions.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:05 PM
#96
gsot21
gsot21's picture
Joined: 01/26/2013
MGoPoints: 134
With Payne back next year, it

With Payne back next year, it will be up to Appling and Dawson whether they are national championship contenders or not. If those two play like they did this year, they are probably sweet sixteen bound. 

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:09 PM
(Reply to #80) #97
samdrussBLUE
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Joined: 01/21/2012
MGoPoints: 15356
Feels like Appling has been

Feels like Appling has been there forever. I've been thinking he was a senior for months now

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:17 PM
(Reply to #80) #98
Blue boy johnson
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 6355
If MSU  makes it to the FF

If MSU  makes it to the FF next season, it is going to be due in a large part to Gary Harris. Harris battled shoulder issues all season and still was regarded as one of the best frosh in the country. Harris is one of those players, like Trey Burke, who makes the players around him better.

In M's win against the Spartans, Izzo designed a play to get Harris an open shot in the left corner, but Valentine went the wrong way and blew the play up. One frosh playing like a frosh, the other waiting in the corner welcoming the pressure of a game winning shot on the road. As for me, I am glad Valentine went the wrong way and cut Appling's drive off, because I wanted no part of Gary Harris with an open look with the game on the line.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:21 PM
#99
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
I think we will be in the top

I think we will be in the top 5 to start the season.  That's where we were last season and we return 3/5 starters from a NT run where last year we were coming off of a loss in the first round.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:57 PM
(Reply to #85) #100
Perkis-Size Me
Joined: 11/30/2011
MGoPoints: 40692
Its possible, but I'm not so

Its possible, but I'm not so sure. I'd bet we'll start somewhere between 5-10, or at the very worst, 10-15. This is just my opinion, but I think to start the season, the polls will weigh Burke's departure as a lot harder to overcome than we all think it is. After all, you don't just replace the best player in college basketball.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:26 PM
#101
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
The Gholston curse?  Ever

The Gholston curse?  Ever since that asshat twisted Denard's head and punched Lewan, bad things have happened to them.  From losing to us in the last seconds in football, to not making it past the sweet 16 while their rival makes it to the NT game, to their best recruit in Drake Harris flipping to Michigan, to being put in a division with three of CFB's powerhouses.

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:58 PM
(Reply to #86) #102
ClearEyesFullHart
ClearEyesFullHart's picture
Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 2756
There's still more evidence

There is still more evidence for the WHC.  That year UM swept MSU in basketball for the first time in...?  They still haven't won in Crisler.  They haven't advanced past the sweet 16.  Michigan is pulling down 5* recruits and Izzo is reaching for 3*'s...Their most hated rival makes the NCAA Final...There may be something to this, Karma is a !?$&@.

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April 28th, 2013 at 7:23 PM
(Reply to #105) #103
Lampuki22
Lampuki22's picture
Joined: 09/16/2009
MGoPoints: 7229
Yeah but

Why is it a curse?

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April 28th, 2013 at 10:33 PM
(Reply to #109) #104
ClearEyesFullHart
ClearEyesFullHart's picture
Joined: 09/09/2011
MGoPoints: 2756
Sports curses

Sports curses have been part of sports culture since the first leather ball was inflated.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports-related_curses
You might remember the curse of Bobby Layne or the curse of the little brother. They involve a team or individual being punished by the sports gods for "slights or misdeeds real or imagined". I'd guess that the wonders hall incident qualifies.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:55 PM
#105
GoBlue_55
Joined: 01/12/2010
MGoPoints: 540
I might be in the minority,

I might be in the minority, but I don't think Payne is that great. I still like Michigan ahead of them heading into next season.

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April 28th, 2013 at 5:55 PM
#106
Jimmyisgod
Joined: 01/24/2012
MGoPoints: 4001
Good for them

Payne is a very talented player, MSU will be good and will desrve to be ranked top 3 and be the favorite in the B1G.  3 McD's All Americans and a 5 star in their starting lineup is formidable.

Think we'll be a top 12 team to start and could improve on that as the season goes.  Like our lineup too, not worried, the games are won on the court not in the polls.  Would not surprise me to see both MSU and Michigan in the Final Four next season.

Kentucky has to be #1, the class they are bringing in is hard to believe, if they get Wiggins, it will be 7 McD's AA's in one class and I think 7 of the top 13 players, that's just silly, the Fab 5 had 4 of the top 12 I believe.

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:33 PM
(Reply to #91) #107
Trey'sTrey
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Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
I give it 3 years before this

I give it 3 years before this year's Kentucky class has some sort of NCAA violation. There is no way I can see a class being this good, even with how good Calipari is at getting people to the NBA. Based on Rivals rankings, and assuming they get Wiggins, Marcus Lee (20th best in the nation) and James Young (11th best) will be coming off the bench.

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May 1st, 2013 at 8:22 AM
(Reply to #100) #108
Daniel
Daniel's picture
Joined: 11/26/2011
MGoPoints: 956
But calling out a school

for assembling phenomenal basketball recruiting classes by potentially less than entirely honest means may be better left to other fanbases.

See Pot v. Kettle.

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:52 PM
#109
Zoltanrules
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Joined: 08/23/2009
MGoPoints: 14468
Good for Payne

His academic story is very admirable and he seems to really enjoy college life. Good for him. Will be that much better when we beat them ; )

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April 28th, 2013 at 6:52 PM
#110
Zoltanrules
Zoltanrules's picture
Joined: 08/23/2009
MGoPoints: 14468
Good for Payne

His academic story is very admirable and he seems to really enjoy college life. Good for him. Will be that much better when we beat them ; )

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April 28th, 2013 at 7:01 PM
#111
gwkrlghl
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Joined: 04/13/2012
MGoPoints: 71
Everyone is delusional

and I'm going to get negged to hell for this but a team that we went 1-1 against (1 pt win at home, 23 pt loss on the road) which is returning 4 of 5 starters doesn't concern all of you? After we lost Trey Burke too? When did we all become MSU football fans? MSU is going to be damn good this year

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April 28th, 2013 at 7:43 PM
(Reply to #106) #112
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 56290
Well, they do "concern" me in

Well, they do "concern" me in the sense that I certainly think they can win the Big Ten title.  But I think you're reading too much into a couple of games.  Actually, you seem to be reading entirely into the first game and not so much into the second.  It sounds like you are writing off the game in Crisler as a fluke and assuming the game in EL told the true story, when every other datapoint from the season suggests otherwise.

I agree that we played a horrible game in East Lansing.  I think we didn't match up well with them in general and they caught us at a terrible time to boot, right after the Wisconsin disaster.  But we went on, in the tournament, to beat teams that were better than MSU - Kansas, Florida and Syracuse, and almost Louisville.   The Michigan team that played in the tourney was a lot better than the Michigan team that played in February.  We got better; they pretty much stayed the same.  

Burke and THJ will be tough losses, but we've still got a lot to work with coming back, and an outstanding recruiting class coming in.  I'm pretty confident we'll be good again next year.  Exactly how good, well we'll see.

 

 

 

 

 

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April 28th, 2013 at 7:05 PM
#113
NHGoBlue
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Joined: 01/27/2011
MGoPoints: 282
Who?

Who?

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:07 PM
#114
Michiganguy19
Michiganguy19's picture
Joined: 07/05/2008
MGoPoints: 1437
poop

poop poop.

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:09 PM
#115
KAYSHIN15
KAYSHIN15's picture
Joined: 09/06/2010
MGoPoints: 3659
Man, I was really looking forward...

To UM never playing that guy again...

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:40 PM
#116
icegoalie1
Joined: 03/15/2013
MGoPoints: 1204
Glad he is coming back...

It's good for the strength of the conference and good for the rivalry.  The spoils taste so much sweeter when both teams are at their best and you win.  I'm just so happy to be looking forward to another fun basketbal season.  Thanks to GRIII and Mitch coming back the spartys won't be so quick to start talking about basketball season during halftime on November 2.

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April 28th, 2013 at 8:55 PM
#117
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
The point isn't that we don't

The point isn't that we don't think MSU will be bad.  They'll be good like this season but unless those 4 players returning get a lot better, they'll be a lot like this year.  I don't get how you can expect them to all of a sudden be a NC contender when the group of guys they have have lost in the first round once, and lost twice in the sweet 16.  Also while we are losing Burke and Hardaway we are adding 2 4 stars and 1 5 star while they aren't adding any 4/5 stars.

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April 28th, 2013 at 10:36 PM
(Reply to #116) #118
Trey'sTrey
Trey'sTrey's picture
Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
I don't see how you can fail

I don't see how you can fail to mention them as one of the contenders, does that mean they are the favorite? absolutely not, I think that has to go to Kentucky, but they are absolutely one of the teams that can make a deep run in the tourney, you seem to act like the sweet 16 is a joke, and it is far from that. I posted what the other sweet 16 teams lost, and it is not out of the ordinary to think they have the potential to make the deep run. let's look at the other contenders:

Kentucky- All freshmen, can they actually produce a national title?

Michigan- Can we succesfully replace Burke, and to some extent THJ, I don't think we will have an issue with THJ, but I think a lot of us, me included, are way too confident in Walton running the PG. Watching his videos he should have no problems, but who knows once he gets into B1G action and the NCAA.

Louisville- Can they overcome the loss of Siva and Dieng, and will Ware be able to return to pre-injury form?

Arizona- Can they finally live up to the potential they have?

Ohio- How much does Thomas mean to them, they will have a killer defense, but who knows on offense?

Duke- How will losing Curry, Plumlee, and Kelly hurt them, they have a good recruiting class though.

So why do you think it is so out there that MSU is considered on of the few in the national title hunt? Whether we want to admit it Izzo is a hell of a coach, they have at least one lottery pick, a potential first round pick, and experience. Additionally their freshmen and Dawson will get their first summer to improve, which can have a huge impact. Do they have their issues, absolutely, but show me a team that does not. Again, I think if I were doing the odds right now I would have them at 5/6 best chance to win the title, so I don't think it is too crazy to consider their chances. I do hope they only have 4 losses next year though, two in the regular season to us, in the big ten tourney to us, and in the national title to us.

However, it is the tourney, and crazy stuff happens all the time in it. A lot has to do with how you match up with the team, and if a team has a hot or cold night, and that is why it is so fun to watch.

I have to agree with Gordon Berenson, we are exactly like Sparty football fans, we had one really good year, and suddenly we think we are the best, Sparty will be really good next year, and whether we want to admit it their basektball success in the 2000's is something we should strive for. Similarly, our football success is something they will always strive for. The only difference being, we can actually achieve, and outdo, their basketball success. They will never come anywhere near our football success, unless we start measuring success in Pizza Bowl appearences.

I am just glad we are able to talk about basketball being relevant again.

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April 28th, 2013 at 9:38 PM
#119
bronxblue
Joined: 11/22/2008
MGoPoints: 59110
That's huge for them, and

That's huge for them, and they should be the favorite in the conference.  But at the same time, you never know how guys will play over seasons, and while Payne is a great athlete I wonder how he'll handle playing inside without Nix.

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April 28th, 2013 at 11:06 PM
#120
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
I think the sweet 16 is

I think the sweet 16 is formidable but to win the NT you need to win 4 more games past that against harder competition and losing Nix will be difficult.  They will have a harder time going big without him unless they want to play Costello who wasn't very impressive last year.  I think we are much more of a NT contender than they are with 3/5 returning off of a team that made it there adding two 4 star recruits and 1 5 star recruit vs. 4/5 returning off a team that lost 4 rounds earlier.

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April 28th, 2013 at 11:40 PM
(Reply to #121) #121
Trey'sTrey
Trey'sTrey's picture
Joined: 04/28/2013
MGoPoints: 13
This is my last post on this

This is my last post on this topic. I think Sparty has to be mentioned among 7-8 national title contenders for next year, but so are we. It is preseason, and very early preseason at that. If their team can stop being incredibly streaky, then they have a good chance to make a run, but that can be a lot for them. All this talk right now is a little premature for all the teams because no games have been played and a decent amount of the recruits are probably waking up tomorrow to attend HS. In 10 months we will have a much clearer picture of how good all the teams are and who the pretenders and contenders are, but right now on paper Sparty is a contender, but so are we, and I would much rather be in our shoes.

Just out of curiosity who are your contenders for the title next year?

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April 28th, 2013 at 11:18 PM
#122
ThadMattasagoblin
ThadMattasagoblin's picture
Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 36033
Unlike Spartan football, we

Unlike Spartan football, we have actually made the national title game and I don't think it's impossible for them to win it all but I have heard the overtures the past three years on how this is Sparty's year and they haven't done it with this group of players. 

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April 29th, 2013 at 8:44 AM
#123
calichrome14
calichrome14's picture
Joined: 07/08/2009
MGoPoints: 243
Very OT to me

At least in a sense I rather not discuss the I'm better than You's.  We will be solid, moo u will be good.  Michigan shall prevail.

 

Cheers

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