OT: Adreian Payne returns for senior season with Spartans

So mature of you.

All the pundits seem to love this team with everyone returning.

They'll probably be 3, after Kentucky and Louisville, maybe 4 after UNC if Wiggins goes there.

Everyone is saying that, but I'm not totally sold on them as national-championship material.  I think they need to shore up the point guard position - they committed a ton of turnovers this year.  Also, defenses can key in on Payne more with Nix gone.

Well, Taylor Lewan is a big man returning for his senior season for you guys, but I get your point

thats what everybody thought about indiana this year but it'll still be close i figure. We should be as good maybe a better matchup with state, OSU is still solid, wiscy is always tough.

...the post Sullinger osu team. Going to be good. I Ustinov whether they will be definitively great. I think we are in the same boat. Depends a lot on our new pieces and how we react to losing a team MVP. I think without nix they are a much different and less intimidating team but maybe more athletic.

NBA draft chances is a very RCMB-ish thing to do. 

What about GRIII and mcgary?

tate's 50-50 guys almost always seem to come back and ours almost always leave

This isn't true. We had at most three 50-50 guys this year (Burke doesn't count - his decision was obvious), and two stayed. Last year, when Burke was 50-50, he stayed.  The year before, Morris left, so altogether that works out to three of five staying and two leaving.

They're going to need much better PG play to get anywhere near a Final Four.

People seem to like OSU more than that. I don't entirely buy it. They'll be, perhaps, the best defensive team in the nation but you still have to put the ball in the hoop. They don't have anyone who's proven to be able to hit even a 15-foot jumper. But I expect them to be the 3rd favorite. The rest looks good.

I agree very much with the majority of that list, but my personal opinion is that OSU and Indiana should be switched. OSU is going to have Scott-Craft-Thompson-Ross-Williams, (I'm assuming that Lenzelle Smith Jr. actually gets knocked out of the starting lineup and becomes their 6th man) which I think will be the best defensive team in the league and possibly the country. I think Ross can replace a lot of what they're losing in Thomas. The guy is a phenomenal scorer and Thomas was the weak link defensively, which has been the knock on Ross. On the other hand, outside of Smith coming off the bench, they're going to have a virtually non-existent bench. With regards to Indiana, I think they're really going to struggle. Even if Vonleh comes in and wins FOTY (which I do not think he will), they only have Yogi and Sheehy returning. It'll be tough to win games at Assembly Hall (as always), but they're going to struggle to get road wins. I see them going 12-6 or 11-7.

MSU will be tough as they have, in my opinion, the two best players in the league in Harris and Payne, but the rest of the team is very mediocre. They won't have great depth, they'll have average at best outside shooting and they seemed to have suspect discipline/chemistry this season. Overall, it should be a great season again and I very much like our position. I'm really excited about Walton and Irvin.

Exactly this, preseason hype means pretty much nothing. I say let the games be played and then we will see if sparty can live up to the hype.

I kind of disagree with that because the Sweet 16 isn't anything to scoff at in college basketball. I mean hell, look at us we lose to Ohio in round 1 in 2012 and make it to the national title last year. If you look at just the sweet 16 last year, you have to think they are on of the best teams going into the season, of course that all changes when the games start. Here is the list of last year's sweet 16:

Teams probably not likely to make it back: Oregon, Wichita State, La Salle, and, FGCU.

Teams that lost a lot and will have a difficult time: Miami(FL), Kansas, Indiana, and Marquette.

Now to the individual teams remaining:

Sparty - only lost Nix, who had his moments, but the only thing I remember him for is his ball-tap on Zeller.

Michigan- We lose Burke and THJ, but we have a more experienced roster now, and if Irvin and Walton are as good as advertised we can make another deep run.

Duke - Lost Kelly, Curry, and Plumlee, but will have a good recruiting class, and Coach K always seems to be in the hunt.

Louisville- Should be pretty good with Russ returning.

Ohio- Losing Deshaun Thomas, but will have a very good defense.

Arizona- Good recruiting class and returning some good players.

Florida- Returning a decent amount and have a pretty good recruiting class coming in.

Syracuse- lost MCW, but return CJ Fair, so they could be good.

If I had to pick 5 teams who could win the title at this point they would be, in order: Kentucky, Louisville, Florida, UNC, and Sparty. Of course this is April 28, so any speculation is pretty meaningless because there have been no games played yet.

Bill Walton circa 2013?  The guy's like 60 and has had a ton of leg surgeries.

I think McGary can probably do better than that.

Bill Walton has lost a step or two.  I'd aim higher if I were Mitch. 

Edit: beaten to the punch.  Shoulda THROWN IT DOWN faster.

They have recruits coming in? 

Izzo said Payne will play the 4 and even some 3, but not 5. 

Everyone here seems to be forgetting about Kenny Kaminsky.  Kid is a stud and is fully recovered from shoulder (?) surgery and is a classic stretch 4 who can shoot and play inside.  He and Costello will replace Nix's minutes and make the team more athletic overall.  Costello really came on at the end of the year in his own right.  

No one seems willing to acknowledge that Harris was hurt all year and still won frosh of the year.  if he's 100% healthy he'll be scary good.  Schilling will probably redshirt, and the young guys will all be better - THAT is what will make them the favorite.  Not sure why that's so hard to understand.  Valentine will be more controlled, Trice healthy (also hurt all year), etc.  They have depth everywhere.  

Dawson is the real wild card.  Kid could be a lottery pick if he could learn how to shoot.  Right now he's just a freakish athlete...but not yet a basketball player.  if he puts in the time in the gym they will be tough to beat.

Give credit where it's due: they have a classic set up for a run: RS Frosh to Seniors evenly spread across the court and two bonafide stars.  

It's just that Trey Burke being awesome makes him look terrible even though he's pretty good.

I agree that we did bring all those in and it without a doubt helped, but with what the other sweet 16 teams lost, they have a very good chance at making an elite 8/final four run, and once you get to that point almost anything can happen. Also, a lot will be dependent on how the teams are seeded in the tournament because that can make a huge difference

This may be difficult for you to comprehend, but players actually improve from freshman to soph seasons.  Especially when they were injured for most of their freshman year.  an Improved Harris is a scary thought, and Valentine showed some pretty heady game in the last few weeks of the season.  He's very good.  

Why is it so difficult to give them credit?  you sound like the tyipcal rcmb whiners who bag on Mcgary for being old.  And Trey was a 3 star....stars don't mean shit.  Players play...doesn't matter how many stars they were arbitrarily labeled with in high school. 

We should be in the top 5 discussion, but I don't think the media will see it that way, I mean how many games in the tourney were they against us? Once they see us play they will see the error in their thinking and, hopefully, put us in the correct spot.

I think Michigan will be good next year, but they do have a couple questions which will keep them out of the top 5. Mainly, replacing the POY at PG, a player that made everyone around him better and drew the defense towards him, leaving others with open looks. MSU dealt with that last year too when they lost an All-American and do-it-all player. 

You also lost the only 2 players that could consistently create their own shot. Stauskus can do that next year, but he needs to get stronger. Maybe Walton and Irvin can be that guy too. But you guys saw firsthand in the season how freshmen don't always show up for big games. 

About a Wonders hall curse but what about the Mark Hollis curse? Ever since that douche essentially tweeted to Trey Burke to go pro save one away game the football and basketball programs are headed in different directions.

Feels like Appling has been there forever. I've been thinking he was a senior for months now

Its possible, but I'm not so sure. I'd bet we'll start somewhere between 5-10, or at the very worst, 10-15. This is just my opinion, but I think to start the season, the polls will weigh Burke's departure as a lot harder to overcome than we all think it is. After all, you don't just replace the best player in college basketball.

There is still more evidence for the WHC.  That year UM swept MSU in basketball for the first time in...?  They still haven't won in Crisler.  They haven't advanced past the sweet 16.  Michigan is pulling down 5* recruits and Izzo is reaching for 3*'s...Their most hated rival makes the NCAA Final...There may be something to this, Karma is a !?$&@.

I give it 3 years before this year's Kentucky class has some sort of NCAA violation. There is no way I can see a class being this good, even with how good Calipari is at getting people to the NBA. Based on Rivals rankings, and assuming they get Wiggins, Marcus Lee (20th best in the nation) and James Young (11th best) will be coming off the bench.

Well, they do "concern" me in the sense that I certainly think they can win the Big Ten title.  But I think you're reading too much into a couple of games.  Actually, you seem to be reading entirely into the first game and not so much into the second.  It sounds like you are writing off the game in Crisler as a fluke and assuming the game in EL told the true story, when every other datapoint from the season suggests otherwise.

I agree that we played a horrible game in East Lansing.  I think we didn't match up well with them in general and they caught us at a terrible time to boot, right after the Wisconsin disaster.  But we went on, in the tournament, to beat teams that were better than MSU - Kansas, Florida and Syracuse, and almost Louisville.   The Michigan team that played in the tourney was a lot better than the Michigan team that played in February.  We got better; they pretty much stayed the same.  

Burke and THJ will be tough losses, but we've still got a lot to work with coming back, and an outstanding recruiting class coming in.  I'm pretty confident we'll be good again next year.  Exactly how good, well we'll see.

I don't see how you can fail to mention them as one of the contenders, does that mean they are the favorite? absolutely not, I think that has to go to Kentucky, but they are absolutely one of the teams that can make a deep run in the tourney, you seem to act like the sweet 16 is a joke, and it is far from that. I posted what the other sweet 16 teams lost, and it is not out of the ordinary to think they have the potential to make the deep run. let's look at the other contenders:

Kentucky- All freshmen, can they actually produce a national title?

Michigan- Can we succesfully replace Burke, and to some extent THJ, I don't think we will have an issue with THJ, but I think a lot of us, me included, are way too confident in Walton running the PG. Watching his videos he should have no problems, but who knows once he gets into B1G action and the NCAA.

Louisville- Can they overcome the loss of Siva and Dieng, and will Ware be able to return to pre-injury form?

Arizona- Can they finally live up to the potential they have?

Ohio- How much does Thomas mean to them, they will have a killer defense, but who knows on offense?

Duke- How will losing Curry, Plumlee, and Kelly hurt them, they have a good recruiting class though.

So why do you think it is so out there that MSU is considered on of the few in the national title hunt? Whether we want to admit it Izzo is a hell of a coach, they have at least one lottery pick, a potential first round pick, and experience. Additionally their freshmen and Dawson will get their first summer to improve, which can have a huge impact. Do they have their issues, absolutely, but show me a team that does not. Again, I think if I were doing the odds right now I would have them at 5/6 best chance to win the title, so I don't think it is too crazy to consider their chances. I do hope they only have 4 losses next year though, two in the regular season to us, in the big ten tourney to us, and in the national title to us.

However, it is the tourney, and crazy stuff happens all the time in it. A lot has to do with how you match up with the team, and if a team has a hot or cold night, and that is why it is so fun to watch.

I have to agree with Gordon Berenson, we are exactly like Sparty football fans, we had one really good year, and suddenly we think we are the best, Sparty will be really good next year, and whether we want to admit it their basektball success in the 2000's is something we should strive for. Similarly, our football success is something they will always strive for. The only difference being, we can actually achieve, and outdo, their basketball success. They will never come anywhere near our football success, unless we start measuring success in Pizza Bowl appearences.

I am just glad we are able to talk about basketball being relevant again.

This is my last post on this topic. I think Sparty has to be mentioned among 7-8 national title contenders for next year, but so are we. It is preseason, and very early preseason at that. If their team can stop being incredibly streaky, then they have a good chance to make a run, but that can be a lot for them. All this talk right now is a little premature for all the teams because no games have been played and a decent amount of the recruits are probably waking up tomorrow to attend HS. In 10 months we will have a much clearer picture of how good all the teams are and who the pretenders and contenders are, but right now on paper Sparty is a contender, but so are we, and I would much rather be in our shoes.

Just out of curiosity who are your contenders for the title next year?