Idiot thug.
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OT: Aaron Hernandez charged with murder
June 26th, 2013 at 2:52 PM
#602
Idiot thug.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
#603
"Urbz"
"Urbz"
June 27th, 2013 at 12:57 AM
#604
Still time...
...for him to go to the Pro Bowl, win a championship and be finally be rewarded upon retirement with a commentator position at ESPN. I mean, who doesn't believe in second chances, right?
June 26th, 2013 at 2:54 PM
#605
And probably over something
And probably over something petty. Stupid things usually are.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:24 PM
#606
I feel the polar opposite. I
I feel the polar opposite. I really think that his level of paranoia over Lloyd talking to the 'wrong' people points to the fact that something else illegal was going on. Maybe it is in reference to the original 2007 shooting? Was Otis aware and ready to testify for money?
June 26th, 2013 at 3:30 PM
#607
Speculation
This is only speculation, but other posters have mentioned the rumor of pot dealings. Perhaps Lloyd was boasting/dealing/arguing with the wrong people.
There are many reasons why a person murders someone else. I'd say a couple thousand dollars or some drug jailtime is a petty reason to end someone's life. (As if there could ever be a good reason).
Again - just speculation. A sad story for everyone involved.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:55 PM
#608
Another Urb molded man!!
Another Urb molded man!!
June 26th, 2013 at 3:33 PM
#609
I'll leave this here:
What
I'll leave this here:
What has happened is terrible. It appears that Hernandez is at least an accomplice in an execution-style murder, and there's a good chance (based on charges) that he committed it himself. That is terrible and evil.
The fact that our rival's football coach, at a previous job, coached Hernandez years ago, is completely irrelevant, and using this situation to take a cheap shot at a rival is idiocy. That the first thing you think of when someone is charged with murder is, "ooh, our football rival's coach once coached him, this is a chance to take a cheap shot" says a whole lot more about you than it says about Urban Meyer. This is the sort of thing that, were we to see it from a Sparty, we would consider it an embarassment to their fanbase. RCMB stuff.
We have plenty of time to take shots at our rival elsewhere. This is not the context for it.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:40 PM
#610
Captured
my sentiments perfectly.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:44 PM
#611
you are already at capacity
but an imaginary +1 from me as well
June 26th, 2013 at 3:47 PM
#612
Thanks
for nipping this in the bud as quickly as possible.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:51 PM
#613
I agree, with a minor
I agree, with a minor stipulation. Many times there have been people who have been steered wrong in life, but then found a voice of reason in a role model that has turned them around and made good people out of them. Being in your position, you yourself have likely done so to innumerable amounts of children.
Now Urban Meyer is in no way culpable for this, but he obviously was not that person in Hernandez's life. I'm not sure even a guy like Hoke would bat 1.000 in turning kids around, but the perception is that Hoke is a role model first, and a football coach second. Meyer exudes a characteristic of being a businessman in charge of a football franchise, not a moral compass. He blew off his family to the point that they made him sign a contract prior to coaching again. His hometown newspaper branded his team's defense lawyer as the team MVP due to how many of his kids were arrested at Florida.
Is it Urban Meyer's job to make sure kids stay out of trouble? No. They're all adults. But he does not embrace the father figure role like coaches at other schools. He coaches football, not life. You get the feeling that he cares more about performance on the field than problems off the field. Meyer has absolutely no wrongdoing in this case. But if I were to pick a coach for my child, it would not be Meyer.
All that said, using this instance to prove the point does diminish the events at hand, and was absolutely a cheap shot.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:04 PM
#614
The TL:DR of my above
The TL:DR of my above post:
Urban was in no way responsible. He had absolutely no responsibility for this. However he, as well as everyone else in Hernandez's life, was not the one to stop this. When I picture the truly great coaches, I picture a guy who not only shapes a player, but also shapes a life. College kids may be adults, but they're really still kids at that point.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:20 PM
#615
I don't know if this is an
I don't know if this is an argument worth having here, but anyway:
1. I don't have any strong information on whether or not Urban spends time as a "mentor" to his players relative to how other coaches invest in their players. My impression is that all coaches do some of that, but are limited by the size of their team.
2. Hernandez's activities do not imply that Urban either abdicated that role or performed poorly in it; some people either resist mentoring they receive, ignore it, or turn to old or worse behaviors upon their departure from the relationship. It's not hard to see that in former Michigan players; we all loved Braylon in his Michigan uniform, but he has not infrequently said or done embarrassing things in his time since leaving the program. He was coached by Lloyd, a person who by all accounts is exactly the sort of mentor you describe.
In similar fashion, Bo did not guide Rick Leach to get into trouble, nor did he teach Jim Harbaugh to call out Michigan for its academics. But those things happened. You can find skeletons like this in the closet of every major coach in sports.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:40 PM
#616
I don't think it is an
I don't think it is an argument, so much as a minor variation on how we see the picture as a whole. We both agreed that Meyer has no culpability in this. We both agreed that some kids will simply refuse to be helped. The distinction we draw is whether this reinforces the public perception of Urban Meyer.
You say no, which is the much more gracious and judicious way of handling the situation. Knowing the tiny bit of background on you that I do, you've been conditioned to be a very tolerant person, which is commendable.
I've never liked Meyer. At all. I would never get myself into a situation where I had to sign a contract to see my family. They are the most important thing in my life. I see a guy like Urban Meyer, and I feel like his values run counter to mine, and I don't like him for it. I realize that my dislike for him paints the picture for me, and probably puts you in the position of being on the right side of this.
That being said, the public perception of Urban Meyer as being kind of cold and slimey is not unfounded. There are several factors that contribute to this. I don't see this situation as something new to use against Urban, but I do see it as highlighting one of his missteps. That being the high rate of arrests while he was the coach at Florida.
June 27th, 2013 at 9:40 AM
#617
I don't know why you're getting negged..
I don't know why you're getting negged for this sentiment, but I feel you captured my thoughts far better than the previous poster with which you are responding.
To say the fact that Urban being his coach during some prettty influential years of his life is irrelevant is pretty strong language. Did Urban play a major role in getting this young man murdered? Hell no. Is it in any way his fault? Absolutely not.
But let's not forget that AH is only 3 years removed from college where he spent 4 years under the care and tutelage of Urban Meyer. To say that relationship is irrelevent is probably not accurate. Is there a causal relationship between his time with Urban and this murder? Hell no. But could there have been something that happened within that relationship or during his time at Florida that could help explain how AH got to this point in his life? I would say there is a good chance there is.
I mean, don't get me wrong, people BLAMING Urban for this are being ridiculous, but I don't think it is any less ridiculous to try and pretend that his time with Urban at Florida didn't help in shaping him into the person he is today (just 3 years later). Is it rare to hear athletes say that their head coaches have had a profound impact on their lives?
Maybe Urbans impact on the kid was a good one and was the only thing that has kept him out of jail this long, who knows. But to say the fact that he coached the kid for 4 years when the kid was between 18-22 is irrelevent is selling the coach/player relationship a little short I think.
That's just MHE though, people can neg me to Bolivian now.
June 27th, 2013 at 9:58 AM
#618
Hernandez is from a bad area
Hernandez is from a bad area and after his stardom, he did not get rid of those negative influences and continued to hang around them. Hernandez was 3 years removed from college--he's a grown man and made his own choices. No one forced him to hang out with that crowd. We don't know how much influence Meyer had on his life. This speculation and he could have done more stuff is stupid and petty.
June 27th, 2013 at 3:29 PM
#619
I`m not sure who you`re talking to...
but unless my post says nothing like I intended, I didn`t blame Meyer for anything. I simply said that to say Meyer`s influence on the kid is irrelevent is underselling it a bit. I didn`t say whether I thought that influence was a good influence or a bad one, just that it would be pretty hard for a coach not to have SOME kind of influence on a kid of that age.
Also, the whole ``3 years removed thing`...I`d say that is a pretty short time. I have had people in my life whose influence is still with me 30 years later (again, good or bad).
To close I will repeat I didn`t blame Meyer in anyway and I`m really having a hard time figuring out how you got that from my post. Maybe you just didn`t read my post or maybe our comprehension is on different levels, but that wasn`t what was said.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:53 PM
#620
Agreed, however
The reason someone to commit murder is, without a doubt, highly contextual and multifactorial in origin. When a tragedy like this happens it's common for witnesses to search for meaning. Especially, in the face of a senseless crime.
To dismiss the possible effect UF's football culture had on Hernandez is, I think, to dismiss - in part - the reason why Hernandez is a suspect.
Now, to say "lulz Urbz clearly made him a murderer" is in poor taste. But to question what makes someone a possible murderer isn't. I object to the style of the previous quote, but not the substance.
June 26th, 2013 at 8:59 PM
#621
Little Florida student perspective
My wife was a Florida student and regularly saw the football players. She's had study group wi Tebow, chatted with Chas Henry at bars, and watched Hernandez bowl, for a frame of reference, among many other interactions. So Urban player arrest record aside and all that...we've all heard it--she said the one guy who really seemed different from the others was Hernandez. He was always a thug, rough, and the rep from the student body was he was not a nice guy to people, either. She said the Pouncys were really nice; Hernandez was a jerk and singled himself in comparison to the rest as such.
June 27th, 2013 at 9:42 AM
#622
You said it better than me...
I should have carried on reading before posting. You said it better than I did.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:10 PM
#623
Amen Brother
Amen Brother
June 26th, 2013 at 4:16 PM
#624
I disagree
Kids are molded by peers, parents and mentors. Maybe it isn't cool to put the onus on Urban, but considering his track record at Florida he sure didn't help the situation.
It's obvious that rivalry bias aside Urban Meyer is not a great person. Winning and his own self satisfaction are the top priorities. It's very well possible that whatever troubled past Aaron came from that with a little guidance might have changed his life's direction.
Take Dantonio for example. Had he not let a kid who had been locked away for 6 months get directly back on the field the minute he was released it is very possible Glenn Winston learns a little from his mistake and doesn't repeat it.
We aren't a Sparty or OSU board but at the same time the examples set by the staffs that have been in charge of those programs have left a very stained and non respectable image for everyone to see and therefore when stuff like this happens people look back and question what if when you were a part of that past.
Not that its always accurate but if the shoe fits the general public is gonna make you wear it.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:57 PM
#625
could be longer
This may have been pre-meditated, which almost always results in either the death penalty or life in prison without parole.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:59 PM
#626
There's no death penalty in MA
Not trying to start a political discussion - just stating a fact.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:02 PM
#627
didn't know that
I had not realized that. I also didn't know the event occurred in Massachusetts. I obviously know that the Patriots play in Massachusetts, but just didn't know where the shit went down.
Either way, this guy is screwed.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:26 PM
#628
So you felt you were
So you felt you were qualified to state that this may have been premediatated when you didn't even know where it took place?
Stick the the lolurbz zingers.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:37 PM
#629
I'd love to know how those
I'd love to know how those two are related. What do pre-meditation and location have to do with one another? The answer is nothing.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:32 PM
#630
Knock it off We Are the Borg!
Or I'll have to flamebait you again!
June 26th, 2013 at 3:56 PM
#631
Aw, come on
I'm no stranger to being a dick to dopes on the internet, but the guy already apologized and "may" isn't exactly one of the stronger evidential markers in the language. Can't we confine all the unnecessary hostility to one thread where I'll be mean to random people and keep it "go blue" in the others?
Edit: Never mind. I see he's courting downvotes on this thread.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:04 PM
#632
For what it's worth, a lot of
For what it's worth, a lot of the reports have described the murder as "execution style," which suggests premeditation (at least to this non-lawyer it does).
June 26th, 2013 at 5:26 PM
#633
Also the first-degree charge.
Also the first-degree charge.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:27 PM
#634
If
If they can prove that he drove to RI, which is near his house, it could be federal.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:55 PM
#635
Not really
Not really
June 26th, 2013 at 6:21 PM
#636
Weren't
Weren't they at a club in RI and didn't the argument take place there? If the crime happened in MA, wouldn't that count?
June 26th, 2013 at 9:04 PM
#637
The elements of murder don't include the facts
The elements of murder don't include the facts leading up to the killing in that way. I doubt the reason matters. Even if so, being across a state line when premedidating the murder doesn't automatically bump it to a federal crime.
Then, even if it is federal, he will likely face the same consequences. I guess it's possible he could face the death penalty... I haven't taken criminal procedure, so I'm not sure. Then, federal courts may be less defendant-friendly, depending on the state. So I guess it makes a difference, but I doubt a major one.
June 26th, 2013 at 10:33 PM
#638
Thanks!
That is good to know. Makes good sense.
June 27th, 2013 at 10:56 AM
#639
They can make anything
They can make anything federal they want. It's just a matter of much the US Attorney wants to make a point of it. I'm reading this from a case this morning: (4) ammuniation, all of which were manufactured outside the state of XYZ, and thus traveled in interstate commerce, in violation of Title 18 of the.....Here, the US Attorney wants to make a point of prosecuting gun crimes. I could see them maybe trying to take the gun charges but probably not. In all likelihood, if he cops a plea to the murder and saves them the headache of a trial, the gun charges will probably be dropped or reduced.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:56 PM
#640
That really is a shame. The
That really is a shame. The guy had everything and may have lost it all with a single choice.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
#641
I think he's being sued for
I think he's being sued for shooting someone else in the face. I have the sneaking suspicion that this isn't the first bad decision he's made.
Also, shame about the guy who was executed.
June 26th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
#642
The only silver lining,
The only silver lining, hopefully the fiance and daughter are set for life with cash. They're likely better off without him.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:01 PM
#643
Unless his attorneys drain
Unless his attorneys drain him of all the cash he has, in a trial that drags on for many months. But they wouldn't do that, now would they?
June 26th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
#644
I agree
I agree, it is a shame. However, from what I see, he has a history of making bad choices. At some point 'bad choices' turn into a lifestyle that is is bound to have real consequences. My prayers are with the family of the slain man. Am waiting to hear what Mr. Hernandez has to say to them.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
#645
It is a shame. No less so for
It is a shame. No less so for the victim, who certainly lost everything because of someone elses single choice.
June 26th, 2013 at 6:44 PM
#646
Agreed
Agreed
June 26th, 2013 at 2:58 PM
#647
Sure didn't look good for him
Sure didn't look good for him when they found he destroyed a lot of the evidence. Have fun in jail for the foreseeable future, hope you didn't get too attached to making a few million bucks a year
June 26th, 2013 at 2:59 PM
#648
Wow.
Police have Hernandez on tape from that night with a firearm saying "You can't trust anyone anymore" before going to pickup Lloyd (the guy murdered).
June 26th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
#649
Wow.
Wow.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/aaron-hernandez-charged-murder-184503162.html
Sounds like there is no saving him on this one. Not only evil, but also very stupid:
"They (prosecutors) have incriminating text messages, guns, video surveillance, etc..up the wazoo. No way in hell he's beating this charge."
June 26th, 2013 at 3:22 PM
#650
*
If he did it, put him in the hole for life. What an idiotic waste of an opportunity.
That being said, I don't know how anyone gets away with anything now. They tracked his movements for the whole shameful night just by cell tower and surveillance cameras. Then they get all of his text messages, his OWN surveillance cameras...geez. Yes, this is a horrible crime, and no politics, but the machinations are all certainly in place for a bona fide police state. There's something disturbing about that too. When the head of Google says "If you're worried about someone seeing what you're doing on your computer, maybe you shouldn't be doing it," that is frightening.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:51 PM
#651
well
I'm guessing people who get away with things don't carry cell phones around, send text messages about what they're doing, or film their crimes.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:53 PM
#652
Yikes
What's creepy is when you mentioned him being tracked by cell phone towers and surveillance cameras the first thing I thought was "Damn, we are getting closer and closer to a police state," and then I read the rest of your paragraph, and that litteraly gave me the chills. Makes it seem eerily prophetic when Micheal Jackson and Rockwell recorded "Somebody's Watching Me" thirty years ago.
June 26th, 2013 at 5:45 PM
#653
So the idea that cops can
So the idea that cops can track your movements after getting a warrant because there is substantial evidence you committed a crime is scary to you? I'm sure Lloyd's family is happy about the fact that cops could figure out who killed their brother.
Also what if Hernandez was innocent and nowhere near Lloyd that night? They would have been able to determine that using his cell phone. So your "police state" doesn't seem all that bad to me. But that's just like, my opinion man.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:24 PM
#654
Ugh... I know no politics no
*Damn it, wrote a long response that doesn't directly refute your point now that I saw that they did get a warrant. Still... you trust the government, a lot. Surprising after these past few weeks, I would've thought people would be more skeptical.
June 26th, 2013 at 9:24 PM
#655
Movie suggestion
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lives_of_Others
Give it a watch and you'll begin to see the kind of concerns one might have.
June 26th, 2013 at 11:48 PM
#656
If you haven't been paying
If you haven't been paying attention to the news , you might realize that the gov. has been tracking lots of people w/o warrants, for a long time.
And of course, none of that info would ever be abused, because this is the USA, we're different and our govt doesn't do anything wrong, ever.
June 27th, 2013 at 12:23 AM
#657
Probably should have said something about the first post...
but didn't, so here we are. Plenty of sites exist for discussing current political events, but this is not one of them; make statements about level of public trust in government, legality of current NSA issues, ect. on those sites, not here.
June 26th, 2013 at 5:46 PM
#658
The government isn't spending
The government isn't spending $2 billion on the new 1.5 million sq. ft Utah Data Center . for nothing... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center.
The data center is alleged to be able to process "all forms of communication, including the complete contents of private emails, cell phone calls, and Internet searches, as well as all sorts of personal data trails—parking receipts, travel itineraries, bookstore purchases, and other digital 'pocket litter'.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:01 PM
#659
Crazy stuff. I honestly was
Crazy stuff. I honestly was expecting him to be an accomplice, not necessarily the murderer.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
#660
That's what I thought, too.
That's what I thought, too. That being said, just because he was charged, doesn't mean he did it. He could still have been only an accomplice, but it's not looking too good for him. There seems to be some pretty hard evidence that he actually did it.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:58 PM
#661
Probably won't matter
A co-conspirator is responsible for any crime committed in furtherance of the conspiracy. If they agreed to go out and shoot this dude, it doesn't matter who pulled the trigger.
On a related note, look for them to add a conspiracy charge soon.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:19 PM
#662
Interesting. So let's say the
Interesting. So let's say the police assume that Hernandez and someone decided that the Lloyd needed to be "taken care of." Hernandez assists in some way but the other guy is the one who actually kills Lloyd, Hernandez can still be convicted of murder? Not aiding or abetting or conspiracy or some related non-murder charge?
I guess it's sort of like charging the get away driver with robbery, and not some sort of assisting in a robbery type charge. That makes sense.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
#663
You never know...
Maybe he'll talk to Ray Lewis, and everyone will forget about this 10 years from now.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
#664
naw
he seems more Rae Carruth than Ray Lewis.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
#665
Rae Carruth murdered his
Rae Carruth murdered his girlfriend and his unborn child. That's a little bit (or a lot) worse, in my opinion.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:04 PM
#666
That's true. The baby did
That's true. The baby did survive and is now permanently handicapped. I forgot about that.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:03 PM
#667
Just...why? I just don't get
Just...why? I just don't get it. What goes through someone's mind who has everything which justifies something like an execution?
June 26th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
#668
Concussions?
(ducks)
Concussions?
(ducks)
June 26th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
#669
no kidding
Like, is his life soooooo bad or did someone insult him sooooo badly that he needed to kill a guy? I have to say hell no. Being an NFL player means you are one of few people on the PLANET with the necessary skills to play that game, but he had to make a stupid decision. Obviously that applies if found guilty, but I just don't understand. Rich and famous people have it made. I just find it hard to believe that their lives are so bad or they have so many problems that some of them resort to committing crimes, even ones as bad as murder. I know, I know..."money doesn't always bring happiness." I call bull shit on that. Having a ton of money is more than enough to make people happy. Having no financial worries is SUCH an advantage in life and one that billions of people would love to have.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:09 PM
#670
Just a thought
Maybe we need to reasses what we define as 'having everything'. That sentiment seems to come up a lot in cases of famous, or famously rich, people making horrible choices. Maybe there's more to life than fame and fortune.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:38 PM
#671
Sure there is more to life,
Sure there is more to life, but fortune should be enough to make everyone happy.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:40 PM
#672
Obvoiusly there is more to
Obvoiusly there is more to life than fame and fortune. And people from all walks of life suffer from various issues no matter how rich or famous they may be. That said, being a professional football player provides a lot of secruity, for both Herandez and his family, in life that the average person does not have. He has been very blessed/lucky/fortunate in his life so far. I sometimes find myself wondering how such a person cannot see how fortunate they are and instead of being greatful for all the good in their life, they focus on the bad, which exacerbates stressors in life and leads to destructive behavior. It should be easier for a guy like him to keep on the sunny side of life. But again, I do not know him, and perhaps there are other mental/personality issues he's struggling with.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:04 PM
#673
He gone..
He gone..
June 26th, 2013 at 3:04 PM
#674
Quick question - just how
Quick question - just how stupid is Hernandez anyways? Nothwithstanding it appears (for now anyways) that he might be a murderer (allegedly).....did he honestly think destroying his phone would keep the police from finding out what was on it - who he called or text'd that night?
Or was he SO stupid that he took pictures of the guy he killed? I cannot imagine what "evidence" he thought destroying his phone would eliminate.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:07 PM
#675
He didn't want anyone to see
He didn't want anyone to see the pictures he took of his naughty parts.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:15 PM
#676
Didn't want to pull a "Favre"
Didn't want to pull a "Favre"
June 26th, 2013 at 3:10 PM
#677
Watching the courtroom on
Watching the courtroom on ESPN just for a minute and the lawyer is saying they have records of him texting the guy telling him he wants to meet up, and then eventually a "get the hell out here" text...so I assume the stupidity is him thinking breaking a phone gets rid of all texts? Obviously if it turns out to be true he wasnt exactly in a great frame of mind
June 26th, 2013 at 3:05 PM
#680
droid
Was he in the inner circle?
June 26th, 2013 at 3:06 PM
#681
Maybe if he had actually
Maybe if he had actually suffered the consequences of any of the bad stuff he's done over the past six years, he might have thought twice about shooting someone again (allegedly). Instead, he's just been let off with wrist slaps again and again.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:10 PM
#682
How ironic. What you just
How ironic. What you just wrote was virtually identical to what I was going to post when the Oregon "sanctions" were announced today. That the NCAA reminds me of a bad parent who allow one child to act as they please and then wonder why none of their other "children" will abide by their rules.
Organizations are like people. If allowed to do bad things without consequence they will continue and generally escalate the bad behavior. Unfortunately.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:12 PM
#683
Whoa!
You two responding to each other!? This is like old times!
June 26th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
#684
Organizations are just like
Organizations are just like people? No politics! And I reiterate that I think this escalation has more to do with the guy who came forward last week about the original shooting. I feel like this may be a direct result of Lloyd possibly talking in some way. But that's just my baseless internet speculation.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:33 PM
#685
Soooo....you're saying we can
Soooo....you're saying we can blame Meyer?
June 26th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
#686
This is why Hernandez fell to 4th round.
It's not weed that causes him to fall, but it's shady off-field issues that scared teams away. They were correct to pass on Hernandez at draft day
June 26th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
#687
Well let's see. Now there is
Well let's see. Now there is an opening at TE. I see Bill replacing one Florida tight end with another former Gator in Tim Tebow.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:11 PM
#688
Choices
Life is all about making them and living with them.....some do not get that! And never will! Condolences to the victims family....many lives ruined....and no winners in this game.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:16 PM
#689
Let's pitch in and make a low
Let's pitch in and make a low bid on his rather enormous house,
June 26th, 2013 at 3:18 PM
#690
Hernandez wasn't stupid, and
Hernandez wasn't stupid, and he didn't make "a mistake." He chose a lifestyle (and, it appears, a group of associates), lived the lifestyle, and will go to prison for the rest of his life for his lifestyle. He was capable (and financially equipped) to live a life free from this sort of thing and did not.
What's really discouraging about this is that I know and work with people who have been involved in serious gang-related crime in the worst areas of places like Chicago, that are trying hard to change direction and get away from it, and are trying to get by with no money and no high school degree. And someone who has college education, a dream job, and millions of dollars simply doesn't care.
Awful.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:25 PM
#691
I have enjoyed reading
I have enjoyed reading virtually everything you have ever posted Stephenr and generally speaking I find you to be spot-on with your observations but saying Hernandez wasn't stupid? Sorry - can't agree there. Anybody who thinks that by destroying a phone he's keeping authorities from finding out what was on the phone is....well.....stupid IMO.
You can now resume being insightful.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:42 PM
#692
That's a fair critique. I am
That's a fair critique. I am trying to push against the "young and stupid" idea that is bandied about occasionally when some younger athlete does something wrong. Athletes who get into trouble are often equated with Lennie Small from Of Mice and Men, intellectually unaware of the damage they are capable of rendering. That is not the case here.
He was not foolishly waving a gun around thinking it wasn't loaded, or playing around with his chauffer like Jayson Williams. It is not a momentary lapse in intelligence that causes someone to get a gun, enter a car, pick up another person, and shoot that person in the head. That is an act of premeditated evil.
Was he stupid to think that smashing his cell phone could eliminate the evidence? I agree with you there. Even if he were somehow not guilty of the actual murder, his role in the cover-up (bungled, it seems, and I'm glad for that) is idiocy.
But shooting a man in the head is not petting a mouse too hard.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:51 PM
#693
I think we can all agree that
I think we can all agree that Hernandez is more than likely both a stupid and horrible person.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:21 PM
#694
Looks like I'm not keeping
Looks like I'm not keeping him on my fantasy team this year.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
#695
Time
to work on that pre-game intro dance!!
Anything has to be better than his eye-roll skills...
June 26th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
#696
Official Team And League Statements...
The Patriots and the NFL have both made their official statements on the matter as it stands right now (LINK). These both come after Hernandez was also released by New England - indeed, any mention of Hernandez, from what I can see, has been removed from the team site.
Regarding the release and arrest of Hernandez, the Patriots published this:
“A young man was murdered last week and we extend our sympathies to the family and friends who mourn his loss. Words cannot express the disappointment we feel knowing that one of our players was arrested as a result of this investigation. We realize that law enforcement investigations into this matter are ongoing. We support their efforts and respect the process. At this time, we believe this transaction is simply the right thing to do.”
June 26th, 2013 at 3:23 PM
#697
Organizations are like people.
The corollary is that executive-driven organizations, especially smaller ones (small businesses, football teams or families, for example), eventually take on the character of their leader, for better or worse. It's no surprise that OSU football has been such an ethical morass when you consider the two guys—Gee and Tressel—who were at the top of the Ohio State pyramid for the past decade.
June 26th, 2013 at 3:30 PM
#698
(No subject)
June 26th, 2013 at 3:35 PM
#699
Real
recognize Unreal
June 26th, 2013 at 3:58 PM
#700
Well, have fun rotting in
Well, have fun rotting in jail for 25 to life, my friend.
Had everything going for you in a world-class organization. Shame that you pissed it all away like that.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:11 PM
#701
Sad for all involved.
Sad for all involved.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:12 PM
#702
For those curious
The difference between 1st and 2nd degree murder in Massachusetts:
Murder committed with deliberately premeditated malice aforethought, or with extreme atrocity or cruelty, or in the commission or attempted commission of a crime punishable with death or imprisonment for life, is murder in the first degree. Murder which does not appear to be in the first degree is murder in the second degree.
The standard you'd be looking for for 1st degree murder is "deliberately premeditated malice aforethought," which is hilariously redundant, but basically means that he had the intention of causing death or great bodily harm before he began the commission of the crime. IF the prosecution can show what they claim they can show, then that standard is well within reach.
June 26th, 2013 at 4:37 PM
#703
How long does it have to be premeditated?
Not really clear on what entails premediated, so can some lawyer type explain it to me?
If I had a ccw and see someone i'm mad at and decide I want to kill them it would take a second to pull out a gun and shoot them. Is that premeditated "enough?"
Or more likely in this case if they were in a fight at a club and they got back to his house and sometime during the night he decided to shoot him once back in his house is that now premeditated?
June 26th, 2013 at 4:43 PM
#704
There's no bright line
There's no exact time limit. Yelling "I'm going to kill you!" and then charging a dude can be enough. A guy who stews for hours and then goes to someone's house to confront him and ends up killing him may not.
For this case, though, IF we believe the prosecution, he intended to kill the dude before he even picked him up. That's plenty.
June 26th, 2013 at 5:59 PM
#705
Thanks
I guess I understand the lack of a time factor, but it seems to be a bit of legalese relating to how bad a crime is, how much evidince there actually is. Am I missing something as to what goes through the mind of a prosecutor trying to decide which charge to use?
June 26th, 2013 at 10:16 PM
#706
Generally
They charge the "highest" crime on which they feel pretty comfortable they can get a conviction.
Another thing that plays into this is lesser included offenses. If they charge someone with 1st degree murder, they can allow the jury to consider 2nd degree murder too. The risk is that juries sometimes tend to split the difference and convict on the lower charge. The reason the Casey Anthony prosecutors goofed was that they overreached on the charge (1st degree murder, I think), couldn't prove the additional stuff you need to prove for those charges, and didn't let the jury consider manslaughter, etc.
June 27th, 2013 at 9:35 AM
#707
That seems like the best
That seems like the best possible scenario for Hernandez, i n which case he's still toast on obstruction of justice and probably several other charges as well.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:13 PM
#708
I didn't know you was callin
I didn't know you was callin The Wolf! That's all you had to say...
June 26th, 2013 at 4:20 PM
#709
Another sad example of an NFL player
reverting back to hanging around with the same bad people he did growing up and reverting to making very awful decisions. I've always thought you see this pattern frequently because young guys lose the structure and discipline they had in their college program (most likely anyway) where NCAA and program rules and lack of money at least controlled what they did. Then, when they all of sudden get big amounts of money and the coaches assume they are adults and stay out of their personal lives, things go south. Why do many guys NOT do this? It comes down to upbringing, the environment they grew up in, the people they surrounded themselves with and other factors.
June 26th, 2013 at 5:12 PM
#710
Obviusly we're still missing
Obviously we're still missing a lot of details on the case, but I wonder if he will be allowed bail. With the allegations of murder, obstruction of justice, and the potential that this might be linked in some way to another case he's involved in, those moments before he was marched out of his house in handcuffs might be the last moments of freedom he'll ever see.
June 26th, 2013 at 9:40 PM
#711
No bail
No bail
June 26th, 2013 at 5:33 PM
#712
Sad
Truly sad.
June 26th, 2013 at 6:21 PM
#713
He is about to switch
He is about to switch positions..from TE to WR
June 26th, 2013 at 7:17 PM
#714
Nah
He can probably take care of himself in prison...
June 27th, 2013 at 10:08 AM
#715
Yeah,..
He'll probably be the one dishing it out to all those WR's in the pen....
June 26th, 2013 at 6:39 PM
#716
Too bad
I heard he was having a killer offseason
June 26th, 2013 at 6:42 PM
#717
He will enter prison as a
.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:29 PM
#718
Dude is a thug, plain and
Dude is a thug, plain and simple. This is what thugs do when "disrespected", if they've been cheated, or if they smell the proverbial "rat". Many of these guys have lots of illegal money; thus, how much money they make has nothing to do with it, and consequences aren't considered. It's all about the code by which they abide.
I've said it before, but I work with violent felons daily. I hear their stories and rationale behind why they did what they did (felonious assault, murder, etc). It usually amounts to nothing more than things related to what I stated above - money, possessions (including women), perceived disrespect, and snitches.
Think of yourself and what you'd consider your breaking point(s). Now, think of how you were raised or what life experience you've had that has made this/these your breaking point(s). Also, think of how you'd react to "solve" or "avenge" whatever the problem was. For most of us, it'd be something like "if anyone laid a hand on my wife/kid, I'd physically defend them however I could". Now, for violent convicts and thugs like Hernandez, it's pretty cut and dried. They have many more "breaking points", and their solutions are often excessive violence including murder. This is what they've been taught and are simply products of their environments.
Sorry if tl;dr!
June 26th, 2013 at 9:47 PM
#719
A mans got to have a code
A mans got to have a code
June 26th, 2013 at 7:37 PM
#720
Orlando Sentinel report on Hernadez and Meyer's Gators
suggests that the recent incident was not an isolated one and was preceded by several others under Meyer at Fla--also that the school's legal team was quite active in trying to keep the eligible players out of jail.
For example, Hernandez was arrested .."after an altercation at local campus hangout known as The Swamp. (Then, he) received deferred prosecution.” (In 2007 after Fla lost to Auburn, he also) was “questioned, along with three other Gator football players, about an incident in which two of the other Gators were critically injured, one of them being shot in the head.” “Hernandez declined to discuss the case with reporters back then and was never charged with any crime. Hernandez was one of many of Urban's Gators who were found to be using drugs. Urban once suspended Hernandez for a game for such use.
Hernandez also was but one of 25 of Urban’s Gators, who “amassed a’ long list of (other) criminal charges and investigations. The problems were so extensive that “the school’s attorney became known as the team's "defensive MVP" for his work in handling the..cases.”
After taking the Ohio State job in November 2011, Meyer said that the arrests during his time at Florida were "exaggerated."
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr-saturday/report-aaron-hernandez-q...
June 26th, 2013 at 7:59 PM
#721
Meyers at Ohio said: "We did not have bad kids (at Florida)
When he accepted the Ohio job, Meyers said: "We ran into some bumps in the road at the University of Florida. Does that mean we had bad kids. I'll fight that foreever. No, absolutely not, we did not have bad kids."
"Of course, Meyer's famously lax discipline wasn't just noticed by media, fans, and opposing coaches.
It was also noted by his former star cornerback Janoris Jenkins, who was tossed off the team by Meyer's replacement, Will Muschamp.
"No doubt, if Coach Meyer were still coaching, I'd still be playing for the Gators," says Jenkins, whom Muschamp booted from UF's team after being arrested twice for possession of marijuana during the offseason. "Coach Meyer knows what it takes to win."
http://outkickthecoverage.com/aaron-hernandez-charged-with-first-degree-...
June 26th, 2013 at 9:52 PM
#722
and THERE it is. I always
and THERE it is. I always wondered why Michigan didnt get Meyer awhile back. Those are real skeletons and surely kept him from serious consideration here. Makes me proud and reminds me if Hokes love for Michigan in" what it stands for"
June 27th, 2013 at 7:05 AM
#723
Wow i remember now a tv
Wow i remember now a tv interview with meyer getting totally pissed at an orlando journalist who meyer claimed was being too harsh on his kids and that they are good kids. I remember thinking at time how meyer was acting inappropriately.
June 27th, 2013 at 9:50 AM
#724
When somebody reacts in such an extreme way
there's usually a serious problem beneath, IMO.
June 26th, 2013 at 7:45 PM
#725
Everybody
Sooner or later, sits down to a banquet of consequences.
AH is a vile punk - allegedly
June 26th, 2013 at 10:11 PM
#726
What a stupid prick
(Allegedly)
June 26th, 2013 at 11:30 PM
#727
Near the end of the arraignment
video the camera zooms to his hands and you can see a red tattoo that says "BLOOD." I immediately interpreted that as his way of saying i've got blood on my hands.
When you commit a crime like murder there are 50 ways you can screw up. If you can think of 25 then you're a genius...and AH, you ain't no genius!
June 26th, 2013 at 11:56 PM
#728
Hernandez must never watch TV
What I really don't get, is between the endless episodes of CSI, Law & Order, NCIS and other crime dramas that seem to run incessantly on TV, how the hell did he ever think he was going to pull this off and get away with it? Did he just never ever watch TV? I mean, on TV the bad guys pull off hits that are 10 times more devious than this and they still get hunted down like dogs. Hernandez plan was really to rent a car (in his own name? really?), text message his buddy to meet up in the middle of the night from his OWN PHONE (not a pre-paid throw away, but his OWN PHONE!!!) plug 5 bullets it him, then dump him 1 mile from his house, all the while getting caught on video from his own surveillance camera?
Is this the stupidest hit in human history? I mean the cops didn't really have to connect the dots. He put a freakin' neon sign on himself saying "I did it!" He might as well have just live-blogged it on the internet.
June 27th, 2013 at 1:58 AM
#729
Place your bets
on him being stupid enough to use his own gun for the hit. Think they'll be able to match ballistics on the body to a gun he owns? Or maybe the fact that the cops were looking in that pond near his house meant that he actually managed to realize he needed to dump the murder weapon somewhere.
The whole smashing of the security system cracks me up though. It was most likely a digital recording system, meaning that if the files were stored locally all he needed to do was do a deep format on the hard drive that was recording everything. You could probably even claim that was due to a hard-drive failure. Of course, if anything was being uploaded to his security company he was already screwed and it didn't matter what he did.
Not that I WANTED him to get away with it, but just the idea that smashing the security system both made him look incredibly guilty AND was rather useless at the same time cracks me up for some reason.
June 27th, 2013 at 11:24 AM
#730
Right!
Yeah, I can just see that scene in Pulp Fiction and instead of calling in the Wolf Travolta and Jackson dial up Molly Maids.
June 27th, 2013 at 12:21 PM
#731
I heard he did a Google
I heard he did a Google search for "how to kill Odin Lloyd" the night before the murder, too.
June 27th, 2013 at 11:21 AM
#732
Weird.
Now he's also being investigated in a double murder last summer in Boston.
