Seriously, does as much stupid, insane, jerry springer-like crap happen in any other state?
maybe i should have had greg howard write the brandon obit.
Seriously, does as much stupid, insane, jerry springer-like crap happen in any other state?
It's pretty crazy how the FBI can prevent this kind of thing.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or if you don't know that the FBI has been setting up these kinds of things for years, making some of us wonder if their time would be better spent actually looking for actual plots instead of ideating plots for would-be-terrorists to act out.
did you read this in the times this weekend?
The whole thing is a hustle.
I disagree. Yes, maybe these guys wouldn't have done this without the help of the FBI since they lacked the capabilities but they sure lept at the opportunity (And do you really want those kind of guys in the open?). And it creates a scenrio where people are hesitant to get involved in the first place since they fear someone involved might be an undercover agent.
Yes, I did read that article but I'd heard about it before. We may be getting dangerously close to crossing the line into politics here, but I'll just say this: I think the FBI is conducting these operations solely for homeland security PR and not for catching terrorists. It's all bullshit. This thread is shot through with bullshit -- People: this was not a terrorists plot! It was an FBI plot!
Doesn't that make it all the more impressive that they stopped it? It's one thing to stop five jackasses from trying to blow up a bridge. It's quite another to stop a massive government law enforcement agency from doing it.
I'm tryin to explain to my students but they just think I'm crazy...
well played erik in dayton, well played.
All the wires had to have been very confusing.
Agree completely, when the FBI agents come up with the idea and all of the logistics, and convince a bunch of idiots that it's the right thing to do... a very reasonable conclusion is that, but for the FBI involvement, these attempted attacks would not occur.
Anyway, I'm more interested in the fact that most commentators and observers (including this CNN piece) do not refer to this attempted bombing as an attempted "terrorist" attack. Same can be said about the Norway shooter, whose massacre of 75+ people was not characterized that often as an act of terrorism, but mental instability.
next thing we know you'll start advocating giving constitutional rights to arabs. watch that political line, man.
Do I believe that the FBI could be using these as PR tools? Yes. But I do believe that there is a certain amount of zealousness in the FBI to prevent attacks by the use of such tactics. I think they see it akilling two birds with one stone. Get good PR while eliminating persons who are potential terrorists.
people in Michigan were arrested for doing something similar? And I'm pretty sure that terrorism isn't the type of thing that gets you on Jerry Springer.
Maybe, but Jerry Springer used to be the mayor of Cincinnati.
Weren't all of the charges dropped in that case except for one possession of illegal firearms charge?
Yes the charges for the people in Michigan (Called the Hutaree case) were dropped because those guys were just talking about doing the kind of stuff the guys in Ohio actually took the steps to do.
offer to help them do it?
I wonder if the charges would become more serious if they let them plant that pretend bomb on the bridge before arresting them.
The did try to detonate the fake bomb.
To all of those making fun of Ohioans, have a little sensitivity. My wife drives on one of their "other targets" every day for work. This would have been innocent people here, not a couple of jerkoffs lighting a couch on fire.
I live in Hudson and work in Aurora. I drive over the actual target several tims a week.
Guys - make fun of Ohio and Ohio State fans all you want (lord knows i do) but this is NOT funny in the least. If these idiots had been successful a lot of people would've died. And last time I checked my home state of Michigan had just as many crazy people in it as my current state does.
I feel you. I just drove over there last week for a job interview. That is some scary shit. Glad they caught those losers and prevented this from happening.
Yeah, but all of the crazies in Michigan are townies in Mount Pleasant. So as long as you're not here, you're fine. All kidding aside, I agree, this isn't really something that should be laughed at.
Agree, this is not a point at Ohio and laugh situation.
We call them the Michigan Militia (although they're not as militant as they used to be)
You do realize that this plot had no chance, at any stage from inception to arrest, of succeeding, right? You do realize that all of the planning and logistics was conceived of and performed by the FBI, right? I urge you to read the NY Times expose on these FBI busts from the past weekend.
The irony here is that the fear (as exemplified by your commnets) which result from these attempted attacks are not the product of terrorist organizations who have as their agenda spreading fear, but rather the product of our government and tax dollars. Awesome.
Okay, I'll bite . . . How exactly did the FBI convince these suspects of carrying out the plot? I assume money and the promise of no jail time? How are they going to effectuate these promises? Are the prosecutors and judges in on it? Do they have accountants in on it that are cooking the books? The logistics are mind-boggling. You don't honestly believe what you are saying, do you?
I'm making assumptions with respect to this specific case since all the facts are not yet known. My assumptions are based on the NY Times expose from over the weekend, which detailed the FBI's practice of identifying potential "terrorists" and convincing them to commit specific terrorist attacks against specific targets with specific weapons supplied by the FBI, in addition to the documented FBI tactic of sending indigent ex-cons to mosques to convince people to become terrorists (and in so doing alienating the very communities that have been the most helpful in combatting domestic terrorism).
That is, the FBI identifies a potential terrorist, conceives of a terrorist plot, convinces the potential terrorist that it's a good idea to carry out this plot, and provides all of the weapons and logistics. Frankly, it seems to me that the FBI is simply fishing for people that are stupid and crazy that they can convince to become terrorists.
observed and commented on for decades that if you are a member of a dissident (anti-war, ecologist, etc.) organization, the people advocating bombings or other violent acts are usually, almost always, the FBI infiltrators.
That, and the fact that they always seem to show up on time for meetings.
How exactly did the FBI convince these suspects of carrying out the plot? I assume money and the promise of no jail time?
Aren't the FBI agents undercover the whole time?
Actually, it was a two page opinion piece that made sure to mention the attempted assaults that were made by persons independent of the government. The article itself was far more balanced in judging these cases then you have let on in your post.
Not sure. I do know that conspiracy only requires one affirmative step towards committing the crime, which they obviously accomplished. A mere meeting about committing a crime is not enough, the extra act to carry it out is required. Charges of conspiracy to commit a terrorist act is probably a very, very high level felony (maybe carrying the same possible sentence as certain homicides!).
Unfortunately for us Michiganders, Terry Nichols pretty much trumps 90% of most other state's domestic terrorist entries. :( I guess we still have Kate Upton to Ohio's Casey Anthony, so there is that, I guess.
and rational thinking has no place on this board!!
Also can't forget the Unibomber. Even went to our school.
He was Harvard undergrad. He taught at Berkeley after completing his Ph.D. at Michigan.
does not have an Ohio chapter. It's our own home-grown insanity.
I grew up going to school with the Mark Koernke's son. Kid was bat-shit crazy before he hit middle school. Michigan militia chapter just outside Ann Arbor.
If obvious poor hygiene and unattractiveness were any indication of the likelihood of criminal intentions, these "lookers" should've been locked up a long time ago. Yikes. Come on guys, you're anarchists, not animals!
But on a more serious note, I'm obviously glad they were caught well before anything came to fruition. I despise Ohio with an indescribable hatred, yet these evil scum aren't even good enough to even be Ohioans, let alone be considered human beings. Lock 'em up and throw away the key.
Human beings ARE animals.
A few years ago, there was a website www.obscurestore.com, that gathered bizarre stories from around the country. Florida was easily the leader. Alas, the proprietor shut it down to focus his energies on his media website.
Yes! I used to love reading that site... before I moved to Florida. Now it seems that every time I turn on the news, there's a new reason to be embarrassed about this state.
this is terrorism. i don't think we want to joke when it comes to this stuff.
Man, these Ohio State fans are really going the extra mile to keep Ohio recruits from going to Michigan. #It'sNotCrazyIt'sSports
WTF does blowing up a bridge that everyone who lives in the Cleveland area has crossed at least SOMETIME have to do with 1% of high-net earners?
What is wrong with some people? Idiots
And these gentlemen likely are not blessed with much clarity of thought if these allegations are true.
Some of the men also dawned black masks
Does CNN have no review process?
It means they put them on early in the morning.
While technically i think they arr more a holes than idiots lets let freedom reign on this board huh? Humor Is used to cope with the seriousness of some things. Get a grip. Should we not make fun of Osama bin laden? I think it's pretty damn funny to think of him getting waxed in his undies and think the underwear bomber is quite fun to make fun of too. Either "could have" blown me or my family up (and their buddies still could) many times over too. The greatest freedom we all enjoy however is the freedom to scoff at them In doing so it makes us feel better and placesthem in the category they deserve to be in...a "joke" (please note parentheticals before you jump on this and say how your wife might have died again).
That all said. We shall forever bear the idiot tattoo that is their hogan militia, terry Nichols, Ted k and the haturi dudes. I think we could really give Ohio a run for their money on this one.