Do you believe in Miracles?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=8gfD134ED54
February 22, 1980 - The U.S. defeats the Soviet Union in one of the greatest upsets and sports stories ever in the "Miracle On Ice". I was not alive in 1980, but the countdown and Al Michaels' call to end the game still brings tears to my eyes.
USA! USA! USA!
Can't wait for Sochi 2014.
I haven't read the OP yet,
Herm missed the birth of his first grandchild
the mail was late that day
Now I don't claim to speak
Now I don't claim to speak for Herm, but I sure as hell feel as though the older men on this board are discriminated against. Usually I'm not one for making a ruckus about getting my "feelings" hurt, but I've had about enough of getting guff because I wasn't born in the past 60 years. When I was a young man we had respect for our elders.
-Ernie
Get off my lawn, you whippersnappers.
Guff is a funny word. No
Guff is a funny word. No disrespect meant Ernie, even though I think you are actually 15 years old.
Discriminated against?
Nope. Made fun of? Yup.
But don't let that deter you from enjoying the the comraderie here. I commend you for showing your love for all things Michigan.
"close your mouth and open your mind" - Al Borges
I'm a child of the mid-60's
I'm a child of the mid-60's and I am onboard with this.
Awesome
"11 seconds, you've got 10 seconds, the countdown going on right now! Morrow, up to Silk. Five seconds left in the game. Do you believe in miracles?! YES!"
On a side note, where can one find the broadcast of the actual game?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?
Miracle!
That is one of my daughter's
That is one of my daughter's favorite movies. Great scene from a great movie.
Can't have one without the other:
Embed of OP
Call me what you will, but I
Call me what you will, but I have never gotten all teary eyed about this game or the call. Major upset? Sure. But if you know hockey you fully realize any team can win one game at any time. This is the most overrated "moments" in sports in my e-pinion.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
If you take away the players,
If you take away the players, the jerseys, the context, and the stage, I will agree.
That's taking away a lot.
Hail.
I respectfully disagree with
I respectfully disagree with your overrated comment.
In most leagues, any team can be beaten in any given game. However, this was a Russian team that was full of what otherwise would have been professional hockey players, playing against a bunch of college kids.
The Russian team had just beaten the US team 10-3 on February 9th, and the reports were that the game wasn't even that close.
Given the political overtones that surrounded the game, with the Cold War and all, I don't think this game was overrated at all.
Not to be "that guy"
but it was the Soviet Union, not just Russia. However, I completely agree with you that this victory was far from overated given the prior loss by the U.S and the political overtones at the time.
The college kids vs. professtionals thing...
is almost cliche like these days, but it's just so descriptive of what went on. Even today, take whatever NCAA All-America team and match them against the best players (of any age) from Russia, Latvia, and the rest of the old USSR. Good luck putting Hunwick, Trouba and 21 year-old Jack Johnson out on the ice when the opposition can start Ovechkin, Malkin and Datsyuk as forwards.
Obviously that's not a perfect example (all-M players, obviously, and I don't think any of the three Russians would be the caliber players they are without NHL experience), but I think it still rings true in some respects.
Go Blue!
Even more than that
Part of the reason why they were so good was because they practiced year round. The CSKA team was part of the Soviet military at the time, all the players were soldiers and their coach Viktor Tikhonov was a General.
Some of the greatest Russian players to ever play practiced together almost every single day for decades. No way any other country could compete with that.
You don't happen to work at a
You don't happen to work at a travel agency and have a wife that looks like Keri Russell, do you?
/theAmericans
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
What? Were you old enough to
What? Were you old enough to remember the Cold War? This game was huge.
But....
it's like a college football team beating the 1980 Pittsburgh Steelers!!
Michigan fans know more than
Michigan fans know more than anyone the evils of single elimination hockey. But TMOI is huge b/c of the international setting. Olympics, in our own back yard, against our Cold war nemesis, David v Goliath, plus an iconic broadcast clip helps immortalize this. As a game, I think it is overrated. But as a moment, i think it'd be tough to convince me of that.
I would have to agree
I would have to agree regarding the game aspect of it. I think the Summit Series was way more influential and impactful as far as hockey as concerned, but as a "moment", this is definitely the greatest
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
That team also beat a team of
That team also beat a team of NHL All Stars 2 games to 1 (4-2NHL, 5-4 Russia, 6-0 Russia). In the rubber match, the NHL All Stars were blown out.
This isn't a situation to use the "any given game" scenario.
I don't think so
Those guys on the Soviet team basically had been playing together for their entire lives.
An entire team who had been trained just for this event since they were young teenagers, playing against an amature team who had been together for a few months.
This was one of the greatest dynasties in sports.They won Olympic gold in 64, 68, 72, 76, 84 and 88. The Silver in 1980 was the first non-gold medal in twenty years.
Bronze.
Bronze.
Hail.
It was a Silver
It was different back then. It was Round Robin.
We played Finland for the Gold, but they finished 4th in the standings and didn't get a medal. USSR beat Sweden and finished 2nd in the standings, earning the Silver medal.
People shouldn't be
People shouldn't be down-modding you because you think the game is overrated. This board really likes to pride itself on being better than other message boards, but so often does the same "I disagree, time to flame him!" just like anywhere else.
Anyways, your comment that "any team can win one game at any time" seems to apply to just about any sport, not just hockey. Do you think all upsets are inherently overrated? What upsets actually live up to their billing, in your opinion? Honestly asking, not just being a dick.
I totally agree. For what
I totally agree. For what it's worth, not only did I not downvote him, I +1'd him. I appreciate his comment and, for those who have their settings set to collapse downvoted comments, those comments should be seen.
I think hockey and baseball
I think hockey and baseball are the most easy to "upset" in a one game situation. One game tells us nothing about which team is better in those sports. Hell sometimes baseball even 7 games doesn't really tell you who is the best team.
Football and basketball "upsets" live up to the billing for me. When UofL beat Florida I thought that was pretty cool (even though I am big on bowl game incentives being a MAJOR factor - pro tip: never bet on bowl games).
I am also very ummmm.... different in my views about America, the cold war, etc. To put that in perspective the term used above "David vs. Goliath" to describe the cold war irks me. WHo is David in that scenario? I get it was a strange and scary time, but that doesn't play into the "moment" at all for me because I am not some eagle riding "MERCA guy.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
better dead than red
love
better dead than red
love it or leave
IllinoisLBer.jpg
MURICA
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Nobody was using David and
Nobody was using David and Goliath to describe the entire Cold War. Neither the first nor the second world thought of it that way. "David vs Goliath" was a reference to the quality of the teams themselves. The situation would have been reversed had the USSR played the US all-stars in American Football, but that was not the situation.
Honestly, it sounds like you are letting your political opinions color your view of the actual athletic event.
Servant. Pastor. Husband. Michigan fan in Duluth.
I must have read
"...in our
I must have read
"...in our own back yard, against our Cold war nemesis, David v Goliath,"
wrong then.
And perhaps I am letting my opinions on the overwhelmingly ego-centric culture here (although not-political views) color my view, but I always put myself on the other side of things. Had our hockey team been this machine and we went over there and lost to a collection of soviet kids we would have complained about how they cheated or they were using some drug and it would have been pushed under the rug and never talked about.
I mean it was a hockey game that we won. I get it, it was an uderdog win, I just don't see it as the amazing, dewey eyed miracle others do. I never have.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
i think that happened to USA
i think that happened to USA basketball, but I don't recall the complaining about cheating and drug use by the opposition.
not a fan of Rocky IV, eh?
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
.
If you're talking about the '72 Olympics....well I'm not sure if you're serious or not
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
more like the last 10-15
more like the last 10-15 years with the professionals
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
Michigan Commies
bfffbt...
Michigan Commies
bfffbt... I hate Michigan Commies
/jake&elwood
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
I probably have similar views
I probably have similar views about the Cold War itself as you do, but I was born in 89. And as silly as I think some people viewed the Cold War, it doesn't change the fact that at the time, it was a huge deal for the typical American. And it is pretty obvious who is David and Goliath in this hockey setting. In the global/political/economic setting, it'd be different. But we're talking about hockey.
We're not talking about the Milwaukee Bucks beating the Heat. We're talking about Michigan beating the Heat. But with something actually at stake.
I agree. I thought the David
I agree. I thought the David v Goliath comment was about the global/political/economic thing, honestly. Which is so far from the truth it's funny. I mean US hasn't always been Goliath, but it has since any of us has been alive and can remember things.
or uh, Duder, or El Duderino if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
And as silly as I think some
And as silly as I think some people viewed the Cold War, it doesn't change the fact that at the time, it was a huge deal for the typical American.
The thing that's probably hard for people to understand who weren't alive then is how important this was to the Communist countries. They saw athletic competition as their way of beating the "decadent" West and in at least some cases (notably East Germany) would use dubious means of achieving victory. Whenever the USSR defeated the U.S. in sports, it used it as a propaganda tool. (They of course would not reveal to the masses that their athletes were often much older and at times abusing PEDs.) The U.S. of course wanted to beat them badly as well, but we weren't prepared to forego some traditional notions of amateurism to do it. We weren't willing to give up the idea of sending in college athletes to compete in team sports like hockey and basketball. It was understood that in doing so, we were competing against a stacked deck, but we didn't want to give off the perception that we were willing to win at all costs. So for our team of college guys to beat a loaded team of Soviet players (which had beaten NHL All-Stars before) was, quite honestly, miraculous.
Also, there wasn't anything silly about the Cold War. You had two alliances of nuclear-armed countries basically committed to each other's destruction. There is a lot of revisionism now claiming that it was "obvious" that the USSR was going to collapse. That was not at all obvious to people when the Cold War was actually going on.
My cynicism re: the Cold War
My cynicism re: the Cold War has to do with the hatred and fear of Communism and Socialism itself that permeated American culture and continues today. And that people celebrate Hiroshima and Nagasaki but are pointing their fingers at the Soviet Union for their nuclear stockpile.
I celebrate Hiroshima and
I celebrate Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was a hell of an accomplishment.
Harvard: The MICHIGAN of the East
We're not arrogant, we're just better.
That's probably all we need...
in terms of perspectives on the Cold War/decision to drop the bomb.
Go Blue!
But again, you have consider
But again, you have consider the context. You have grown up in an age in which the Socialist parties in Western countries have shifted towards the center and the remaining Communist countries have abandoned much of their ideology.
But during the Cold War, the USSR's official foreign policy objective was for a worldwide Communist revolution. It was not content to have Communism exist in only certain countries. As a practical matter, some of its leaders took a more conciliatory approach. But worldwide revolution is a fundamental part of Communist thinking and all Eastern Bloc countries officially were committed to it, and their leaders would periodically give speeches to that effect ("We will bury the United States"). Communist parties in Western countries (such as France and Italy) followed the lead of Moscow. They refused to join coalition governments with any "capitalist" party. In the event of a military showdown, they apparently planned to turn against their own governments.
The Socialist parties, for their part, distanced themselves from the military/revolutionary aspects of Communism, but economically their goals were almost identical. It's been mainly only in the last 30 years that Socialist parties have advocated more of a mixed economy, with public-private partnerships. If you voted for a Socialist party during most of the Cold War, you were voting for a party that literally wanted the government to take over the economy.
I don't want to get too
I don't want to get too political, but I will say this so that you might have an idea of where I'm coming from: I believe in the total depravity of mankind and do not find anything inherently wrong about most ideologies. So I still put blame on people for viewing Communism and Socialism. Nothing wrong with complete gov't control. Nothing wrong with anarchy. But in lieu of this thread getting completely offbase, I bid you adieu. And I don't necessarily disagree w/ much of what you said.
Mankind is not totally depraved.
That is a much too simple reading of history. It is more accurate to say that man is a fallible being that is capable of incredible acts of generosity and creativity as well as perpetrating unspeakably barbaric and inhumane acts. Sometimes good men are forced into committing the latter and bad men into the former by circumstances.
"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"
I'll never forget sitting on
I'll never forget sitting on the bridge of the US Navy ship I was stationed on, in harbor - Barcelona Spain, in the last few days of 1991. I sat there and watched a few members of the crew on a Soviet Union ship paint over the Hammer & Sickle on its smoke stack.
That is an awesome memory. I'll never forget that.
What about the hated and fear of capitalism?
Many countries have exploited such fears over time. Mao in China, the USSR, etc. It seems that you have forgotten the horrors of Communism and Socialism. Gulags, state-induced famines, severe restriction of personal liberty...how can you NOT loath such systems?
Communism killed more people then Facism by a fair margin. What's more the victims were their own citizens!
As for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Well, if we didn't use it then my grandfathers may well have had to go into Japan. Did you have any skin in that game, Bacon? I find that most who criticize the use of the bomb fail to comprehend how determined Japan's junta was in fighting the war to the bitter end(Bushido Code) and that they did not have any relatives serving in the Pacific.
Also, you forget that Japan first used WMD in that war when they used bombs fllled with plague on the Chinese. (See: Unit 731)
All this isn't to say that the US was perfect--it certainly is not. We have plenty to be ashamed about. But the US is no different from any other country. We didn't invent slavery. We didn't invent genocide or mass killing of civilians. We didn't invent oppression of minorities or lower classes. All that was already well known to the world for thousands of years. Yet, somehow people in this country in a weird version of the Americanocentric interpretation of history have come to believe that we are unique in having a past filled with lurid tales of atrocity and oppression.
"The Ruhr will not be subjected to a single bomb. If an enemy bomber reaches the Ruhr, my name is not Hermann Göring: you can call me Urban Meyer!"
I will always have a problem
I will always have a problem with innocent civilians killed in a war. No matter what side they are on. The citizens of Hiroshima and Nagasaki did nothing to the armies of America, or the citizens of China and so on and so forth.
And nowhere did I say that the US is more guilty than other countries.
As for the rest of the ignorance in your post, I won't get to it b/c I'm gonna stop posting in this thread as we've already violated the NO POLITICS rule of sports message boards. No need to continue it as if you read my posts and understood them you'd realize the irrelevancy of your response to mine.
PS - my grandpa fought in WWII and Korea. My great-uncle got a purple heart in WWII
Maybe my take on upsets is
Maybe my take on upsets is different, but just because an underdog beats the favorite, I don't assume that the underdog is the better team. There are plenty of outcomes that are special specifically because if that game were replayed 100 times, the underdog would never win again.
And I think the David v. Goliath thing refers just to the hockey match-up. The US and the USSR weren't both called "super powers" for nothing.
I haven't read the OP yet, but I'm going to guess: Herm's first grandchild was born?