OSU vs. UM (and others)
Here's a Rivals high-level look at the Big 10's draft results from '00 to '09:
http://collegefootball.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=938905#BigTen
Can we assume that the number of players drafted by the NFL is a reasonable reflection of the talent base? (I think we can, but I'll leave that to the reader.) If so, Ohio State's dominance the last few years becomes easier to understand.
I find it interesting that Wisconsin is right there with Michigan even when they've trailed them most years in the recruiting rankings. It's probably also fair to say that Northwestern has done some overachieving on the field.
Some detailed views (say, at the ultimate destination of 4-star offensive line recruits) would be revealing. Maybe later...
comparison is valid, since they both played pro-style offenses through the time period (except for 2008 & 2009 for M & the Troy Smith period for OSU). If you assume those 2 negate each other, than I guess Lloyd was just out recruited by OSU, Wisky, and maybe PSU.
That goes into the talent deficit that was talked about earlier in a diary post (don't remember when).
I compiled the Top 10 list from that source.
OSU - 69
Miami - 63
USC - 61
FSU - 56
Georgia - 55
Tennessee - 54
Florida - 50
LSU - 49
Virginia Tech - 47
Michigan - 44
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:00 AM ^
It becomes easier to understand, but their list of busts is well documented. AJ Hawk only plays 2 downs, they take him out on 3rd down because his pass coverage is so god awful, also his tackle totals have gone down every year. He has in no way justified his high draft selection. Troy Smith is on the bench, Ted Ginn is an absolute bust. Of course how can I not mention Gholston. That's 3 top 10 picks from Tressel's regime that have in no way justified their selections. Bobby Carpenter never got off special teams, and Schlegel isn't even in the league anymore. Will Smith was pretty good, but I believe he got busted for PEDs. Mike Doss flamed out, I personally thought he would be better. Ashton Youboty hasn't really done anything. Chris Gamble has started most of his career, but you would say he's average at best. Pitcock quit football. Vrabel has had a great career, and Nick Mangold is an absolute stud, you could also add Winfield to that list. In total, I would say that Tressel has only produced a few above average NFL players, I think the jury is still out on Chris Wells, and Gonzo. Rob Sims is decent if I'm not mistaken. Lauranaitus is doing what he did at OSU, racking up huge tackle totals, but they're all made 5-10 yards down field. I guess I see your point, but I don't want to accept it without giving the Vest a little jab.
April 22nd, 2010 at 12:22 PM ^
BUT, I have to defend the Vest (a little) on this...
I would submit that since this is a comparison done for analysis of the college programs, it would not be fair to compare how many of the players stuck in the NFL.
I suggest that a college coaches responsibility is to prepare that player for entry into the NFL, not their long-term success.
There are simply too many variables to attach to a players carrier to use this as a criteria - injuries, systems, etc.
Ok, (whew) my once in a lifetime defense of Da Vest is done.
I now have to take a shower to get that off me.... (It burnses, it burnses!)
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:05 AM ^
I agree that NFL careers would be a better measure of player quality. You'd have to make adjustments for injuries and development (for players who got substandard coaching in college).
I've sometimes wondered if OSU players have become slightly overrated as a group because of the success of predecessors (e.g., Eddie George and Orlando Pace). There might be something similar going on with the SEC schools. They have the most NFL players, but maybe not as many as you'd expect after looking at the draft results.
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:06 AM ^
In case it wasn't obvious, that was meant as a reply to pdgoblue25.
April 22nd, 2010 at 12:26 PM ^
But I believe that to be true throughout the league, although perhaps less relevant today as the NFL is increasingly sophisticated in its selection criteria.
Just my opinion.
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:32 AM ^
I would say almost always their linebackers are overrated. Besides Vrabel, how many great linebackers have they produced in the last 20 years? I never understood why Michigan isn't considered linebacker U. Dhani, Foote, David Harris, Woodley, Cato June, Hobson, Hendricks were all starters/contributors in the league. Maybe someday you can add Prescott and Crable if they can ever stay healthy. Good call on Pace and George, I guess you can add Glenn, Galloway. I was just trying to focus on Tressel and throw in a few others as a sample. Stringer was a good lineman before his very unfortunate death. Robert Smith was a great running back. It just seems like the majority of Tressel's players flame out. Of course I would much rather have great college players/NFL busts if it meant we beat Ohio State 6 years in a row.....fuck, oh, and I also forgot Michael Jenkins, he's never reached 800 yards receiving, and he doesn't have the Vick passing skills excuse anymore.
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:39 AM ^
I wonder if the "flaming out" of many OSU players is due to better testing for PED's at the NFL level?
April 22nd, 2010 at 11:09 AM ^
COMPLETELY AGREE 100% Butch Reynolds was their speed coach, the sprinter that got busted for drug use.
April 22nd, 2010 at 10:57 AM ^
Its all in the retention rate. Sure OSU has had a lot of players drafted. But on current NFL rosters they have 35 players.....UM has 38.
April 22nd, 2010 at 12:06 PM ^
The Big 12 looks rather weak on this list. Not one team in the top 10! Michigan even did better than Texas, although Texas had more first round picks.