OSU Secondary Violations
The Cleveland Plain Dealer notes that OSU self-reported 46 NCAA violations in the past year, including some secondary violations in football. Some strike me as very petty - one is because an assistant coach was chewing tobacco during a game, and another because Urban Meyer may have said "good luck" in passing to a recruit in a state title game in PA. Those strike me as foot faults, and are not really a big deal in my book. You'd think OSU would be extremely careful these days, but it's hard for me to get worked up about such violations.
The more serious one, in my mind, is apparently Gene Smith and Archie Griffin got together to prepare a "personalized" recruiting video for Ezekiel Elliott for his official visit to OSU in March. That's not only a clear violation of NCAA rules, it's not something that happens accidentally or "in passing". You have to contact your former Heisman Trophy winner, put together a script, get someone to film it for you, and get it over to the recruit. Lots of chances there to realize "hey, maybe we shouldn't be doing this!". And it's the freakin' AD doing it, with some experience with NCAA violations. This is not on the scale of booster payments, Toys for Tatts™, loaner cars for athletes, etc. But really dumb all the same. Gene Smith is the gift that keeps on giving. He should definitely hold onto those incriminating pictures he (must) have of the NCAA administration!
The link to the article is below, together with a summary copied (with some bits redacted for space considerations - it's worth a stroll over to the CPD article to see the whole list) from the CPD article.
http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2012/05/ohio_states_urban_meyer_ad_gen.html
•Football coach Urban Meyer said "Good luck," to recruit Noah Spence before his state championship game in Pennsylvania in December. Contact like that with Spence, on his game day, is forbidden. •Athletic director Gene Smith and alumni association CEO Archie Griffin recorded a personalized video for football recruit Ezekiel Elliott for his official campus visit on March 31. Recruiting videos are forbidden. •Greg Paulus, the basketball team's video coordinator, was reported to be coaching players during the Buckeyes' Big Ten Tournament semifinal win over Michigan on March 10. Video coordinators, who aren't full assistants, may not coach players. The violation was discovered after a general conversation between an OSU player's parent and an assistant athletic director. •In December of 2010, five current football players took five recruits on OSU visits to a movie. NCAA rules allow each recruit $60 in spending money for entertainment. A cab ride to the movie put each recruit between $1 and $5 over budget, which the football players paid out of pocket. That was not allowed because the $60 limit was exceeded.. -- Doug Lesmerises
Mike Vrabel was reported for using snuff by an area health teacher? Would anyone here see that and even think "Hey, that needs reporting!" Let even do it? You'd have to be a pretty big d-bag to do that.
you know what happens if you don't take care of your mouth.
if you take health and setting a positive example for kids very seriously (as a health teacher would), not too big of a stretch. I've been "that guy" before, and I don't feel bad about it at all. I say kudos to the health teacher.
I hear you regarding the dip and kids looking up to adults who chew (baseball comes to mind), but to me it's nothing that gives OSU a competitive advantage. I can't see a kid saying "wow - their assistant coaches get to dip - this is the school for me!" In short, it doesn't corroborate my general impression of OSU as a program that will cheat to get a competitive advantage.
Compare that to getting Archie Griffin and the AD to send a recruit a personalized video? That absolutely creates a competitive recruiting advantage. Can you imagine if Tom Brady or Charles Woodson was sending 17 year-old kids personalized videos from David "The Brand" Brandon's office? The outcry from our rivals would be deafening.
I absolutely agree with you. It definitely doesn't give osu any sort of competitive advantage one way or the other. It's only a violation from a pure rules compliance perspective. maybe it was inadvertant or out of ignorance. This should be a, "hey, read this thing about the rules, sign a form about it, and move on with your life" kind of violation.
The video, otoh, is a clear and willful violation of the rules. Given everything that has happened, it should carry more weight. But, i'm sure they'll just the do same thing - read this thing, sign this form, and promise not to do it again *wink wink*
I think saying that Vrabel is setting a bad example by using snuff is a bit of a stretch.
I still don't see how it's a bad example. He's an adult, it's his choice and it's not against the law. Would he have been upset if he was chowing down on a Big Mac during the game?
I don't even care about the NCAA rules. Alot of them are silly, but he broke one. Oh well. It is what it is. My bone to pick is with people that think it's a bad example. Would this health teacher ever let his kids watch a movie from the 60s in which every adult has a cigarette in their hands at all times? And for the record, I'm not a smoker and I don't dip. I just think this health teacher needs to do something better with his time than try and spot coaches breaking NCAA rules on TV.
Let's not forget that Gee and Emmert were college roomies. Maybe Smith has a little inside info on that situation. Wink, wink, nod, nod.
/s
OSU reports all of the tiny stuff that doesn't matter at all so they can at least give the illusion of trying to adhere to NCAA rules. At least that was their SOP under Tressel.
I agree that most of the stuff was so trivial there's no way it would result in any penalty, and I'm sympathetic to your view. The video, however, strikes me as a different kettle of fish.
The other one that's bothersome is the video assistant coaching during the basketball game. That is arguably as bad as the grad assistants at U-M supervising summer workouts, which was the only Stretchgate violation that gave me any pause whatsoever.
But on one hand, anything having to do with violations won't help Ohio State's perception, while on the other hand, a lot of secondary violations can be viewed as a sign of a strong compliance department.This was the most troubling bit for me. A lot of TSIO fans point out how they self-reported more than any other school in the country, so there's no possible way anything worse could have gone down. Reporting secondary violations doesn't mean jack if you turn your back on the big stuff
Or fail to correct the 999 little things you have down wrong. At some point if you continue doing the same small violations wrong it really means you are not in fact attempting to change anything. I get reporting the small stuff, but after awhile it should all go away, if it hasn't then you are not learning the lesson.
The fact that other schools (Michigan included)..that don't report anything is pretty troubling. That just means they are all covering up things. There is no way a major program doesn't break secondary rules. I have no idea why Ohio State self reports, but I do know that the fact that michigan doesn't makes them seem dirtier.
when you are on probation. I would think the video should cause some type of escalation in their current penalties.
This was my question. What effect will their probation have on the impact of these secondary violations?
Probably none. It's actually extremely common for minor violations to be reported at every school. The NCAA "lawbook" is so huge, it's impossible to remain fully complient. It's generally not a big deal with the little things; it would only be a big deal if OSU was found to have committed another major violation.
It's basically a strategy of releasing a bunch of garbage and then hoping the actual interesting nuggets of information gets lost in the wash. If they report 100 ridiculous violations, the 1 or 2 things that actually might matter if you released them by themselves get totally ignored in a chorus of "What? Saying 'Good Luck' to a kid is a violation'? "
Ohio St will stop at nothing for recruits.. Sleezy bastards.. meyer has a great history in violations and he's looks like its gonna continue at Ohio..Assneck hasnt even coached a game yet.. Cant wait to see if he sends OSU Cheerleaders to a recruits game like Dumbshit Kiffen..Best voilation ive heard of yet
All of that stuff sounds like a lot of nothing except the part pertaining to Gene Smith, paragon of virtue.
Biggest compliance department in the country and their AD and former football star Alumni Association CEO don't know the rules? Compliance must be working real hard.
but who cares.. we all know they won't get hit with anything else. OK I have moved on, thanks for listening.
On Tuesday of this week WKNR, Cleveland SportsTalk Radio, spent about an hour talking about what must be contained in the emails that OSU is fighting so hard to keep private from ESPN. The general opinion of the "Hooligans" (afternoon hosts) was that the emails must implicate both Smith and Gee or they would just release them and be done with it.
The were literally LAUGHING at the fact that OSU was winning this battle given the court hearing the case was in Columbus. Even down here those with half a brain know there must be wide-spread corruption going on at the school but they also realize nobody is going to do a thing about it.
It's a joke.
OSU's battle with ESPN is a battle over whether the emails can be made public, but OSU has no argument with keeping those emails from the NCAA investigation. We have to assume the NCAA has already reviewed these emails, and factored in any facts from those emails into the punishment. While we may learn more about what really happened if ESPN wins its case, it shouldn't mean anything additional from the NCAA unless they just didn't do a thorough investigation. It's possible that the NCAA investigation was less than thorough, in which case the NCAA should hope OSU wins the court case. Otherwise, it will make both OSU and the NCAA look even worse than they already do.
it could also be a possibility that, if these emails are made public, the NCAA will have their hand forced to do a "real" punishment for what OSU has done. up to this point, they've levied the weakest punishment possible at every turn.
You may be able to help. What does "Original Action in Mandamus" mean? I've been trying to follow the case on the state Supreme Court site and nothing has happened since just before Christmas. Is this normal?
Link? Link.
I've seen even fairly basic cases (workers' comp appeals, etc.) take up to a year once they reach the OSC.
A mandamus action is a request for a court to order an official to perform a clear legal duty or obligation.
OSU has always given the impression of conscientious compliance by self-reporting an amazing amount of petty infractions.
Gene Smith has been a very active participant on the committees within the NCAA. If there is anyone who should be expert in the inner workings of the NCAA, he is.
Smith is past president of the National Association of Collegiate Directors of Athletics (NACDA) and was that organization's first African-American president. He also has served on the NCAA Management Council, the NCAA Committee on Infractions, the NCAA Executive Committee, the NCAA Football Rules Committee, the President's Commission Liaison Committee, the NCAA Baseball Academic Enhancement Task Force and the National Football Foundation Honors Court, among others.
In other words Gene Smith == The System, this is why the system can't/won't prosecute him or find him guilty. He is the system, he helped create it and it will not harm him. Nice loop to be in...
...why that B1G semifinal game went Ohio's way. Greg Paulus was coaching up the Buckeyes.
"Trivial" doesn't even do justice to most of the rest of that list, but this bit about Paulus is death-penalty stuff in our experience. Clearly that program is spinning wildly out of control. Worse yet, it's proof that Thad Matta just isn't an "Ohio State Man."
Yeah, given the way that game proceeded, any "coaching" was likely "hey you, keep doing that."
The one thing that strikes me as missed logic by most is the cumulative effect on recruits. If all the schools recruiting someone do the same thing in order to land a recruit and one singular school stands out due to providing something that is deemed "illegal", then isn't that fairly serious in nature? If a school can continually land premier recruits by doing something underhanded, which creates a competitive recruiting advantage, and report it as a secondary violation that will bear zero punishment, why would there be any reason to stop violating the rules. In all cases, they still landed the recruit and benefitted.
I understand that the rules seem stupid at times, but that is not the issue. The issue is that not a single soul at Ohio seems to know any of the rules, including their AD. Striving towards "a failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance" should be stated somewhere in their Athletic Department's mission statement.
I'm kinda hoping they have offensive backfield violations.
I agree with the consensus that most of these are piddly, trivial offenses that are rightfully ignored. But what about that recruiting video and the video coordinator coaching? In light of their current probation, don't these warrant further punishment? Aren't these actionable offenses? I was under the impression that while on probation, any violation could be a huge deal...
Keep your cupboards stocked with Orville Redenbacher. I can't help my sneakin' suspicion that Urb is sneaky and suspicious.
Hey Mark Snyder, I heard that Ohio sportswriting is a very, very lucrative gig.
with all the idiotic secondary violations that do not offend anyone's sense of fair play and have no real consequesnces.
Lets save the enforcement time and money for things that really matter.
I like that you were the one who posted this.
"Last August, quality control football staffer Kirk Barton, a former OSU offensive lineman, created and ordered 20 "JT" bracelets for $5 each online to honor former coach Jim Tressel. He intended them for friends and family, but several players asked Barton about the bracelets. He sold seven players the bracelets for $15, charging that amount in an attempt to make sure no violation was committed, knowing that giving them out for free would be an NCAA violation. But selling them still was deemed a violation because players had access to something not available to the general public." - one of the violations mentioned
I had to chuckle at the strange irony of the quality control coach being his own "defect", if you will. Correct me if I am wrong, but essentially, the QC coach is more or less the administrative assistant - breaking down film, practice scheduling, various other duties, none of which I am assuming include providing a secondary market for accessories.
That being said, individually, most of these are not a huge deal - there are more than enough regulations that no one could comply with all of them all the time, and that's fine - it is discovered, reported, and hopefully there is a little remediation session on the specific rule, and everyone goes their separate ways. Of course, reporting relatively insignificant things at fairly regular intervals to maintain a facade of general compliance is a behavior right in Ohio's wheelhouse.
The video, however, is something that hopefully the NCAA would raise a minor stink about, if nothing else (it may very well be "nothing else", of course, in their most sage view). I am sure that Smith and Griffin somehow felt like they should show recruits how Ohio is a great school and working to right the wrongs, and I can think of no better way to do that than violating yet another rule. Wait, actually, I can...
Not everyone's the perfect person in this world. Everyone murders, kills people, goes three dollars over the acceptable limit for recruiting entertainment, whatever.
secondary violations as they can so they can point at it and say look how good we are at monitoring our athletes. Its a game of curtains and mirrors.
MSU does the same thing, its just no one cares.
The NCAA is gonna come down hard with 2 years of probation and a stern warning to not do that naughty stuff again. They will also include some finger pointing, eyebrow lifting, and head shaking for good measure. They're like the dad that says, "You boys are asking for it" over and over.
In light of these new vioaltions, and the current probation, it is only fair that the OSU be given two extra coaching staffs to help it recruit. Clearly, Ohio must be tought a lesson!
/ NCAA
We must also give them some supplemental recruiting cash and ....TELL 'EM WHAT THEY'VE WON JOHNNY......It's a brand NEW TATTOO PARLOR!!!
Biggest news for is that Greg Paulus is the basketball team's video coordinator. How odd.