I'd consider this very good news!
OSU receives Notice of Allegations from NCAA
Oh how I hate Ohio State, but right now I think the B1G needs ying AND yang.
The big ten needs clean programs. The conference will be fine. TOSU needs to be punished , this has gotten out of control.
I hear what you're saying, and I agree a death penalty would be bad for Michigan in the long run, but I'd like to at least see them get officially acknowledged as cheaters and have them take a couple steps backs while Hoke builds his empire.
Without the "lack of instutitional control charge," OSU is nowhere near that possibility.
Exactly, the only time a death penalty can be applied is repeated lack of institutional control.
Question: Does anyone know/care about the expanding fireball currently engulfing OSU football in Bloomington/surrounding area?
I've literally talked about this case with people from PA to CA and TX to IL.
In no way could you get those states to agree on the recent healthcare bill, favorite music, or best type of food. Everyone finds Tressel to be a scumbag.
This is true. I'm in Claifornia and people who give a rats ass about college football are giving me high fives because they know I'm a Michigan fan.
Auburn and OSU are the current favorites.
FSU and Miami of the 80's to 90's would be more.
Everyone roots for cheaters to get caught, but I think OSU's is a bit deeper then just the cheating. I think everyone hates the fan-base too.
If a program is clean (or at least perceived to be clean) and winning, it doesn't have the same aura.
Fantasy 101: Kingdoms are good. Empires are evil.
Unless Hoke's pointing is some new variant of the Force Choke, I think we're well on the way to the Kingdom of Hokemania.
my personal preference is kingdom hearts, with kingdom of gondor a close second
I agree. No one wins. What are they going to do, tell us we beat Ohio last fall? I don't want that victory. I saw the game.
This is a huge stain upon the B1G. Takes a bit out of our sails when we talk about the SEC and their unethical practices.
The good news is that it is them and not us.
We wouldn't get the win. It's basically like that game didn't happen. And getting caught means punishment must be handed down. The greater good of cleaning up college football/NCAA getting their balls back means a win.
Ordinarily I don't disagree. But that self-righteous SOB Tressel couldn't be a more deserving candidate for a beat down.
The best situation for us is for this drag out. We all remember the damage the long drawn out process of our basketball investigation did.
Meh - you know what, I'll not gloat on this one. For two seasons we were under the NCAA cloud because we skirted the regs, and we were found to have cheated - including having one of our coaches lie to the NCAA. Tressel stood behind us.
Sure what we did was like 60 in a 55, but when you get down to it, so was selling some gold pants and a ring that could have been interpreted to be the players own belongings.
I'd guess when he first found out, Tressel treated this like the outwardly minor thing it is. Yes he should have self reported to OSU compliance. We don't really know if he talked to the players or disciplined them. From what we have read, maybe he let the players know he knew by contacting their "mentors" without really saying he knew or officially reporting it. (Granted, the loaner car is more troubling.)
Anyway, my take: OSU now will have to bend over and take their medicine. Personally, they should vacate the games last season since Tress knew and did nothing about the violations before the season.
What the NCAA does to Tressel is more open for debate. He apparently lied to them, and his confidentiality statement is now shown to be BS since he forwarded the emails to "mentors". (If he was worried about confidentiality, then even talking with said mentors over the phone and not forward the case specifics would give the appearance that he was concerned about confidentiality at the time.) He may be hosed. We'll see I guess.
One thing we can all agree on: what a piece of work Terrelle has turned out to be. I so happy we got Denard instead.
Tressell stood behind us because the charges were bullshit. Plus, we fired the person found guilty of lying to the NCAA. On the other hand, Tressell hasn't been fired yet, lied to the NCAA numerous times, and paying players and using ineligible players to win football games doesn't happen at all schools. The two situations aren't anything alike
Personally, I view what Pryor et al did as minor BS as well. Though the amounts involved to border on not so minor.
The big difference being Tressel lied to the NCAA investigators, not a QC staffer (or was he an assistant coach), and Tressel knew about it pre-season, which if reported, most likely would have wound up with suspensions during last season. (Also, to be fair, we didn't ask the guy to find employment elsewhere until after the Notice of Allegations came out.)
My point though was more: we have been found guilty ourselves, and therefore should take the high road rather than casting stones. And though Jimbob Tressel appears to be in big trouble, I'll not gloat over it because he did stand behind us in our hour of shame.
if we flush the sewage, distinguish ourselves from the SEC. Also (if you really care about health) that some other teams get a chance to vie for titles.
consider this excellent news.
I consider this the BEST non-directly-Michigan-related news.
"Ohio State, however, was not cited for "failure to monitor" or "failure of institutional control" violations, which would likely lead to the harshest of penalties. Such penalties are typically imposed when a university's compliance program is weak."
Looks like this has all the makings of the NCAA looking the sweatervest in the eye and telling him to fall on his sword.
This blows my mind. Of all the violations that they could be found guilty of, these two would seem to be the most obvious. The NCAA shouldn't give OSU and Tressell the opportunity to "fall on his sword." Punish the violation indiscriminately.
Tressel falls on the sword and is fired. Wins will be vacated, penalties assessed. But OSU's name is left relatively intact - Tressel's is ruined.
But I'm still confused about a few things: TSIO received a letter from the feds on 12/7 notifying them of the investigation? and that letter was what ultimately led to the 1/23 investigation that found the Cicero e-mails?
- I thought the 1/23 investigation was an "unrelated matter"? Isn't that what the university said in its response? A letter from the feds about free tats for memoribilia is very much the fuck related to this matter.
- What did that 12/7 letter to the University say? This is not an e-mail from some lawyer - this is from the feds to TSIO: if it has details on what was found, then the school is involved. I don't think they'd be that stupid to cover this up, so there must be some explanation. I'm just curious as to what it is.
That led to OSU self-reporting the players' violations, which it did prior to the Sugar Bowl.
NCAA Compliance Officials are just lucky that Tressel hasn't fired them yet...
That comment when it was initially made completely blew my mind. I wonder if Tressel felt like a POS cause he knew of more skeletons in his closet, or just as smug as ever.
Tressel inadvertently saved Ohio from those death penalty charges by NOT alerting his compliance office and his superiors. The question to me is would the compliance office have alerted the NCAA if properly notified? probably yes, but then again maybe not, possibly to avoid the repeat offender lable.
They may however get the repeat offender lable anyway.
" The NCAA warned that it could treat Ohio State as a repeat offender stemming from the violations involving former quarterback Troy Smith, who took $500 from a booster and former men's basketball coach Jim O'Brien, who gave $6,000 to a recruit.
That finding is the most damning and potentially most damaging because repeat offenders face post-season bans, the entire coaching staff could be suspended and the school could lose scholarships, according to NCAA rules."
No, it would have been better for him to have come clean, assuming that OSU would have self-reported the violations, which it almost certainly would have done. OSU self-reports more violations than any school in the country. There is no reason to believe that they would have swept this under the rug. As is so often the case, it's the coverup that has them in trouble right now. If you turn yourself in, the NCAA generally does not punish you that severely.
Cmon man, you think that was inadvertant? The man danced around talking to anyone so long as they weren't a person who could get in trouble if this came to light!
""It was reported that Jim Tressel, head football coach, failed to deport himself in accordance with the honesty and integrity normally associated with the conduct and administration of intercollegiate athletics and violated ethical-conduct legislation," the 13-page NCAA document says."
It's so simple, but probably the perfect reaction to the entire situation.
Unfortunately Ohio's response is going to be "Can't Touch This!"
I see a rather hard slap on the wrist with very little effect on the football program. NCAA wiffs on these investigations every time - and with no allegations of "institutional lack of control, etc" I don't see anything more than a couple schollies and more probation.
Maybe I just have a case of the Monday's*, but something tells me this is going to be the case.
*insert obligatory Office Space picture
I do believe you'd get your ass kicked saying something like that.
Edit: You said picture, not comment. Reading Comprehension Fail.
All of that "flair" is quite impressive...
that is their response. The longer they take the "can't tough this" attitude, the worse it will be for them.
The best thing for them that they could do right now is to try to grovel. I'm hoping that they stand defiant!!
Except this part makes me sad, be tougher NCAA!!!
"Ohio State, however, was not cited for "failure to monitor" or "failure of institutional control" violations, which would likely lead to the harshest of penalties. Such penalties are typically imposed when a university's compliance program is weak."
Every time I read anything related to this I hear Gee in the back of my mind saying "I just hope he doesn't dismiss me" In a whiny ferret voice. Man that guy is an embarrassment. If MSC ever said anything like that, I'd honestly be embarrassed.
And you will never hear that from MSC. Michigan is first and foremost an elite educational institution, not the other way around, which seems to be the way Ohio sees things.
I'm pretty sure Bo could have deposed the President, jailed the Regents, declared maritial law and had the full support of the campus population. He never would have because he was much too classy, but he could have. As an example during his tenure as the AD the revenue stream was kind of shakey but no one really spoke out against him because who at Michigan would ever speak out against Bo?
Gee is tool though.
So does this mean the NCAA will be making their ruling soon?
If you read the article, it said OSU will meet in Aug to refute the charges. And if you extrapolate based on our hearing, that means the decision should come out sometime during the season.
Sounds like roughly the timetable we were on last year.
IF tressel was fired, how realistic is the expectation that urban meyer takes his place? In my opinion, this would be even worse than if tressel stays as head coach.
Its possible, but my inclination is that Meyer is done as a coach. He has a stress free job now as an analyst. He left a pretty good gig at Florida. Also, given that Herbie is a co-worker of his, he will definitely know what he is dealing with in terms of a rabid fan base.
This also scares me, but I can't imagine him lasting long. If he thought the pressure cooker was bad in Gainesville, coaching in Columbus will either put him back into retirement or in a box in 3 years or less. Plus, now we have his prize defensive coordinator!
that Urban can put a fence around the state of Ohio and lock the state down like. Saban did at LSU. His actions at Florida did some damage image wise to a certain degree. Every recruit and for that matter some coaches will think just what you are expressing. How long before he melts down? how long before he has these "health issues" again?
Yeah, Urban has to be one of the easiest coaches to recruit negatively against (not that we do that). It wouldn't be hard to get a recruit wondering if his coach will retire for the third time at the drop of a hat. You're going to want a guy who will be there for four years, let alone two. I think he lost a lot of his mojo in the last two years with the retirements and lousy season they had post-Tebow, so I'm not as nervous about him taking over as I would have been three years ago.
We all hate the thought, but if they have to fire Tressel this year, TSIO is in a sticky spot. It is not a politically correct time to be poaching other teams' coaches. They would get negative publicity and would have to negotiate a buyout. It would be a giant PITA to hire someone who is coaching now. That leaves their current assistant Luke Fickell, who TSIO fans tout as the coach in waiting, or Meyer.
Meyer isn't under contract and reportedly had an out clause at Florida that specifically mentioned their school. The first time he "retired" at Florida, he changed his mind and went back. I can't imagine Meyer turning down TSIO, ND, or Michigan, no matter how happy he is at ESPN.
IF TSIO really decides they want Urban Meyer, they will get him. I hope Fickell has managed to keep his hands clean in the TSIO cesspool, because our worst nightmare as Michigan fans is to have a spread coach at TSIO.
It was the Carr-tel's inability to defend the spread that got Carr "retired" in the first place. NW upset them a few times using a spread they learned from RR, even using the same terminology. TSIO won the battle of the undefeateds in 2006 by using a pro-set hybrid of the spread in the first half.
Then there was "the horror" and the Oregon debacle. If TSIO gets a spread coach, whether it is spread option or a hybrid spread, Michigan is going to have a hard time winning two games against them this decade, and that overall series lead is going to look a lot smaller than it does now.
Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do, but I would heartily recommend hoping for Luke Fickell to be promoted or Saint Dantonio to be poached from MSU.
I like that you're suggesting that Hoke will not win against a "spread" OSU before his defense, or even his team, has played a single down. Give the man a chance before you pigeon-hole his defensive capabilities.
I stopped reading your post when I read: "It was the Carr-tel's inability to defend the spread that got Carr "retired" in the first place."
Bullshit. Carr retired on his own accord, this meme needs to die.
#1: I'd feel a lot more comfortable ascribing the inability to defend well against "spread" teams (giving you a wide lattitude for defining spread) to Ron English instead of Lloyd Carr's program generally. Thank all that is sweet and sacred, that man is not a part of our coaching staff now and I have little doubt that someone with Mattison's professional experience will be able to scheme and teach defensive concepts that counter systems which have now have been around for well over two decades and through a plethora of iterations and analyses. Also, lest you forget, Lloyd's program did just fine dealing with one of Urban's spread iterations headed by a future Heisman winner (albiet slightly injured and still somewhat inexperienced) by the tail end of that lovely season we lost to Oregon.
#2: "Carr-tel" is stupid.
#3: There is little reason to believe Urban retired for any reason other than his serious health conditions. Without the ability to control those, I have a hard time believing that a man will trade a lucrative analysist job and the ability to watch his daughters grow up for the chance to coach a team only slightly more pretigious than the one he walked away from in its prime.
is an embarassment to yourself and this fan community.
Carr had expressed desire to retire for some time, and was not shown out the door (unless you proof to the contrary? no? didn't think so).
Florida is a far more cush job than OSU, particularly given his near-deity-level status there. Meyer has said he wants to stay retired for health reasons, I see no reason to not hold him at his word after his cutting of ties with the UF program. If you have prove to the contrary, produce it or stop trolling.
And even then, Michigan (and the "Carr-tel") are 1-0 against Meyer... and that's with one of the greatest QBs in CFB history.
Also, news flash: our worst nightmare isn't to have a spread coach at OSU, it's to have a bad coach here at Michigan. We don't define ourselves by OSU (that's what MSU does with us), they are simply a rival that gives a good sense of our measure. If Michigan continues on a solid path towards elite defense under Mattison and if Hoke can make the offense operate at a high level, it doesn't matter who's coaching at OSU... we'll have a more than fair shot at beating them on our own terms.
they prematurely fired O'Brien after the basketball hijinx and had to pay dearly in the courts for wrongfully terminating him. Don't expect them to fire Tressel unless and until the NCAA has made an official ruling that he violated 10.1 or some other clearly documented aspect in the contract. There could be pressure to ask him to resign, but I really doubt there will be any firing prior to the ruling after the August hearing.
1-9 wasn't enough of a nightmare, huh?
OSU going to a spread full-time would be the best thing that could ever happen. It would open the door to kids that traditionally would have gone to OSU without question to start coming to U-M.
We saw a similar uptick in MSU's recruiting during the RR era because Michigan was looking for spread players. OSU abandoning Tresselball and 'dave' would be PBJ time on Mgoboard for days.
Worse. I suppose he could go 9-0 in his first 9. I'd rather they hire a top guy if it comes to that.
Who are you people that are scared of Urban Meyer? You say it would be worse to have him at OSU than Tressel. Really? We have beaten Tressel once.... ONCE! At the same time, it was the Michigan Wolverines who handed Urban Meyer his only bowl loss as a HC. Are you really planning/expecting to go 0-10 against a Meyer-coached OSU team?
Face it folks, regardless of who is the coach at OSU, they will always be our arch rival. This NCAA stuff may cause them to stumble for a year or two, but rest assured, it will end up being a mere bump in the road. If Meyer ends up being their coach somehow, good for them...they'll have a great coach (did you think they were gonna go hire a hack?). But what the hell kind of fan is "scared" of this?
seem to forget their best players were a bunch of sophmores vs a bunch of what seemed like can't miss potential pros made of seniors. harvin was a sophmoer the pounceys were freshmen and the tight end was a freshman tebow was a sophmore
It's no coincidence that the Dispatch article came out at the same time that OSU received its Notice of Allegations. Public bodies like OSU often rely on a provision in FOIA (in Ohio it's called the "Open Records Act") that relieve the public body from responding while an investigation is ongoing. Usually, the "investigation" is by traditional law enforcement (police, FBI, etc...) but in this case my bet is that OSU claimed the "investigation" exception also applied to the NCAA.
Now that the investigation is complete (can someone confirm this?) I would imagine that OSU will be producing documents in response to all the outstanding FOIA requests. There will probably be some big legal battles to come. For instance, the Dispatch notes that many records from President Gee and Gene Smith remain outstanding. That is where the fight will be, because OSU has the most at stake with those documents.
Believe it or not, the details are JUST beginning to emerge. Perhaps OSU decided to respond to the Dispatch first because that news organization will probably be more sympathetic in its coverage than the national outlets.
It is hard to say which way the Dispatch will go. I have talked with many OSU alums over the last month and there seems to be almost universal agreement that Tressel is no longer wanted or needed. Not unlike Michigan alums, most OSU alums went to their school to get an education and appreciate the value of the piece of paper they received. Football is the icing on the cake.
Where the dichotomy comes in is with the non-alum OSU fanbase, who only care about football and don't have the academic ties to OSU nor, in many cases, the brains that go with it.
with that Bluenote. The other part of the puzzle the NCAA may have trouble accessing are the phone records of several player (Pryor mainly and his mentor/businessman non booster). The NCAA may have to piggyback off of the FBI's charges against the drug dealer tatoo parlor owner to get those if they are a part of that investigation.
In the articles they mention that Tressel contacted to FBI shortly after Tressel was notified by the lawyer. I wonder what that conversation was really about.
I don't see how the NCAA can screw this up. All the evidence they need is right there. Further investigation can only make it worse for Ohio State.
I don't see how the NCAA can screw this up.
You clearly don't give the NCAA enough credit for being the hacks they are.
Andy Staples just tweeted, "Dept. of Irony: Banner on front of tOSU athletics site right now asks fans to BID ON PLAYER WORN JERSEYS."
They are former players' jerseys, but still.
from the ncaa and the notice
I find myself strangely aroused.
My two cents is that people may be grossly overestimating how bad this is going to be for OSU. Bruce Pearl lied to the NCAA about his own violation and was suspended, I think, for seven out of 30-odd games. Tressel is already suspended for five out of thirteen...I think that vacated wins may be the only thing added on to what OSU has already done to itself.
Also, and I say this based on no more expertise than living in OSU country, OSU is not going to fire Tressel over this.
Add probation and that'll be it. This report is a good thing for OSU. They didn't find anything new and the process seems to be moving along.
Pearl was suspended for 8 games before any NCAA ruling. He got fired when UT heard the NCAA was going to come down hard. I'll be shocked if Tressel keeps his job. OSU may not want to fire him, but they won't have any choice.
being way under the 85 scholarship number. By appealing they were able to sign 31 because they backloaded EE to the previous year. If the NCAA doesn't give in, they will be greatly affected during the next three years by only being able to sign 15 players per year.
5. FOIA requests show that Troy Smith threw the national championship game and Columbus actually explodes.
I WANT 5!
I think the big part of the hammer is going to fall on Tressell. And, to be fair, all the public evidence seems to indicate the biggest sins were completely contained within his personal discretion. At the same time, it has seemed like something has stunk about the program for a long time and the syncophantic response by the OSU administration to the early parts of this scandal make it hard for me to believe their compliance process has been as thorough and comprehensive as it has been ascribed to be.
My understanding is that "failure to monitor" is a charge against the institution moreso than the coach. Tressel is being charged with a very bad (10.1) violation - my guess on the NCAA thought process is that the blame for this falls entirely on Tressel and that the OSU compliance department had no reasonable way of knowing the violations occurred (since the information was supposedly withheld from them by Tressel). This differs from RR's violations, which were occurring more or less in the open and should have been caught by the compliance department if they were doing due diligence.
Of course, if the investigation determines that OSU did know what Tressel knew, all bets are off - nothing prevents the NCAA from adding a "failure to monitor" charge at a later date.
of a desperate attempt to suggest it WAS only Tressel (see "Tressel falling on his sword" meme). Because if higher ups were aware then this IS a failure of institutional control and boom go the big guys.
On the other hand (argues agains self), it could be the reason why Tressel failed to pass on the memos: he knew they were courting institutional self-immolation.
Either way--you call the FBI before you call your boss? You don't bust your players when their gold pants show up in drug busts? Do not pass Go, dude.
There was a better occasion for "jajaja23" to "find" one of those Google Wave chats, (this time between JT and a few others in tOSU administration) I don't know what it would be.
Those expecting something terrible to happen to OSU will be disappointed.
Without even a "failutre to monitor" charge, the penalties will be relatively minor.
By many accounts, Gene Smith has been telling people the worst is over. Tressel is certainly not going to lose his job.
Too sure on Tressel. If NCAA comes back with show cause, it will be unprecedented if the try to keep him.
can someone please explain to me how the fuck this whole situation is not regarded as "failure to monitor or failure of institutional control"?
Should I be pissed that the NCAA appears to have left the most serious charges off the OSU program because to my (admittedly not violation savy) mind, this seems like they are letting them off the hook.
Any help on this subject would be appreciated
but I'm thinking IF the compliance and or AD knew about the situation and did nothing or somehow tried to cover it up the institution could get failure to monitor.
Any all corrections are welcome.
Conversely, IF the compliance department and/or AD really DIDN'T know, then they can't be charged with "failure to monitor" (presumably it's not their duty to read Tressel's private emails) - or at least that's the argument, right? As you said, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, failure to monitor is basically a conspiracy charge. It's hard to argue conspiracy when no one else in the department knows anything about it.
If a compliance department is firing on all cylinders, it would pretty much take a conspiracy to earn a failure to monitor charge.
But a compliance department that is inept will be vulnerable to the same charge with or without the conspiracy.
Conspiracy requires multiple parties with intent to commit a violation. Failure to monitor basically is just lax or sloppy internal controls or enforcement.
The athletes involved have already been dealt with and are not a part of this investigation.
Can anyone explain why everyone seems to think Tressel will survive this? They actually have now charged him with a 10.1 violation, and coaches don't survive those.
Whether he gets fired from OSU (probably won't happen) or gets a show-cause (has happened in virtually every other case) it still means he won't be on the sidelines by the time they come up here in November.
Maybe I'm giving the NCAA too much credit, but they have reacted that way towards BCS conference coaches before.
IMO, it's because the NCAA is afraid to bring down the hammer against The Vest and tsio. I base my opinion on what I perceive to be a spineless move of not charging him with "a failure to promote an atmosphere of compliance."
They did hit him with the more serious 10.1 though. That's the most damming personal charge they can bring. Now that I've read UV, it seems that Brian is under the impression Tressel will be gone too, FWIW.
I think this is just too blatant for them to be worried.
I thought that Tressel wouldn't get anything worse than a five game suspension from a thirteen game season because Bruce Pearl got seven or eight games from a thirty-odd game season. A quick Google search, though, shows that Pearl was suspended by the SEC for those 7-8 games, not the NCAA. The NCAA has yet to rule on Pearl's alleged 10.1 violation.
I still believe that OSU will fire Tressel only if they are forced to. You may be right, though, that the NCAA will do just that.
I really think they'll be forced to. Only one coach in history has been found guilty of a 10.1 violation and not received a show-cause. That was Herron, who was out of coaching by the time the NCAA ruled. Unless Tress retires, he's gone, IMO.
OSU fans are generally a bunch of fickle second-guessers who assume that any season that doesn't end in a national champsionship is one in which the coach messed up. Within that context, though, Tressel has built up a ton of political capital. Only the reincarnation of Woody Hayes could be more popular.
Even though logic tells me it could well happen, my jaw will drop a little if I ever see OSU fire Tressel.
They have some crazy ass fans, yes. I do agree it's both logical and seems unlikely; it's a weird situation.
The NCAA has the final say though, and while it doesn't exactly inspire confidence, at least it's not the big OSU donors/a president who makes jokes about being fired by an employee calling the shots anymore.
So the NCAA has the power to can jt or force the school to do what is right.
The NCAA can issue a "show-cause" penalty. This means that the school needs to a) fire Tressel or b) appear before the Committee on Infractions and show a cause to keep employing him. Basically they would need to make the case that he really isn't all that bad.
Nobody has ever gone through the appeal process, and even Tressel would probably have the dignity to resign before it got to that point. So yes, effectively the NCAA can end Tressel's (or any coach's) career.
Edited to add that this is the standard punishment for a 10.1 violation, the one the NCAA charged Tressel with today, and the one he admitted at the initial press conference.
Thanks for the clarification. Basically if jt doesn't get fired there is no justice in this world.
Because this is the progression:
1. revealed as a Liar
2. media, fans, opponents, and his players have lost respect for him (inevitable)
3. game losses come next
4. TSIO finds itself in the position of having surrendered its integrity for less than a NC-caliber team - that's long, long term devastation for the university.
They'll rally around each other as team... for a while. This type of thing cuts to the core - when you don't respect your leader, it's all over in team sports. When the losses come, this thing implodes.
But they're going to broom him.
No justice in this world.
Jim Tressel is a LIAR and CHEAT and always has been going back to his days at Youngstown State. His "ACT" of being ethical is ONE BIG FRAUD and SCAM..Hes found ways out of many NCAA jams by parsing words ala Bill Clinton. Its about time the NCAA did something about him .
OSUs anything to win culture is clear and evident to anyone with half a brain.. The OSU Pres and AD are big liars and cheats as well..I hope they all fall on their sword until they do OSU will be nothing more than Liars and cheaters in most peoples minds..
of the political spectrum, that may be a more sweeping indictment of corruption in American life than the OP understood that he was making.
Interesting (IMO) read from Deadspin (I know...), "Jim Tressel is the Perfect Coach"
I agree with you, in fact i have been quite impressed over the past few months with how much better their writing has become. The I know parenthetical was more due to how they handled our NCAA investigation at the start than a comment on the blog in general.
I have to ask.... How in the HELL is the coach put on blast by the NCAA without a Failure to Monitor and/or Failure of Institutional Control? This makes no sense and further blemishes the ever growing black eye that is the NCAA.
Good bye Jimmy
to see some decomits? I'm curious.
Nah. Too much uncertainty for now and such a powerhouse program, sadly.
If there is any coach at any program in the country that could survive a 10.1 Violation without termination, it is clearly Jim Tressel.
Haven't I read/heard somewhere that roaches will be one of the few things to survive a disaster that might hit the planet? 'nough said!
How much would it hurt THE game, if OSU's program is destroyed. Our recent decline has already taken a little glimmer off of the prominence of it. It is still the best rivalry in sports, but how much better would it be if games like 2006 could happen more often?
I don't know exactly what I want the NCAA to come down on them with. Thoughts?
Cake or death?
Well played, sir.
What else could it have been?
Nope, you said death...
I hate tsio as much as the next guy, but what do you expect their compliace department to do?
"Hey Jim, have you seen anything suspcious lately?"
"Golly, no I haven't. How was your easter?"
"Are you suuuuuure?"
"Yes. How was your easter?"
"Are you sure you're sure?"
"How much do you like having a job in the state of Ohio?"
*thinking either DERP or "it makes me want to kill myself"* "Have a good one Jim!"
Reading the things the NCAA is asking tsio to provide is very fun. recommend it. Also, it seems like they are going to make tsio spill their guts on all of the dealings with Sarniak and Cicero which should be interesting. I think they could be in some deep shit here
And instead I found the Black Knight yelling "it's just a flesh wound:"
Meltdown threads are starting over at Bucknuts. They finally are realizing how serious this is.
I absolutely love that gif...so appropriate for the next 5-6 mos. I just wish there was some way that we could make the red leather blue, and the black trim maize. That would be sweet.
If there's one person who could do it, it would be Chunkums...
The rumor floating around down here (Columbus) is that someone within the Athletic Department not named Gordon Gee or Gene Smith knew about the allegations. This would go a long way towards the NCAA revising their notice of allegations to include lack of institutional control.
This rumor comes from the same group that told me about the "Tat 5" four days before it came out. Some of their details were off the first time around, so as the title suggests, take this FWIW.
ps- LOVE being down here while this is going on (maybe the only time I can enjoy being a UM fan down here in recent years)
tOSU: "Mr. Rodriguez, would care to intervew for our recently opened coaching position?"
RichRod: "Hmm.. Good program, beat UM every year"
tOUS: "Thats right"
RichRod: "So I can embarass UM of every year"
tOSU: "It is encouraged"
RichRod: "So what you are saying is that I can have my cake and eat it too?"
RichRod: "Can I be merciless in my revenge?"
tOSU: "Depends how far you go, blood letting is not allowed, however whitewashes can be the norm"
RichRod: "Oh hell yah."
If OSU wants to hire a guy that lost 75% of his Big Ten games and displayed little to no understanding of the defensive side of the ball, I'm all for it.
Robert Smith, former OSU running back and current ESPN analyst, was just on SportsCenter. He was extremely negative on the situation, effectively saying he cannot see any way JT can survive this. I have to believe he has many contacts within the AD's office and would have not said something so definitive on his own. These are the most negative comments I have heard from anyone closely associated with their program.
Robert Smith is not very close with OSU. He had fairly public dispute with them a number of years back about his perception that he was steered away from taking hard classes while he was on the football team...I'm not arguing that his prediction is wrong.
... is on OTL right now and was just as tough or even tougher on Tressel. It is possible Gene Smith is coordinating some of this.
It very much seems, though, like Gene Smith is loyal to Tressel. Also, Spielman has shown himself to be a pretty independent voice for a long time. Robert Smith, as I said, seemingly left the reservation a long time ago.
Smith threw Tressel under the bus himself last week. Besides, it's not a question of loyalty at this point. It's a question of what's best for the program. JT created this mess and it's Gene Smith's job to clean it up.
FWIW, I think it is highly likely that by the time this is all over, Gene Smith's head will roll too. Regardless of his lack of direct involvement, he will be blamed for the mess because it happened on his watch and for his poor handling of the situation, starting with that awful first press conference.
I think Gene Smith was trying to explain why their PR had been so bad. He definitely covered his own backside to some extent with what he said about Tressel. Generally, though, he seems to know that OSU's bread is buttered by Tressel's consistent winning...It's my impression, and nothing more, that OSU as an institution doesn't perceive its interests as being very much divergent from Tressel's. I only see them firing him when the NCAA pries him from their cold, dead hands.
"I think it would be very difficult moving forward, I believe, with Jim Tressel."
Kirk Herbstreit on CFL today, so add him to the list of high profile former players who think Tressel is a dead man walking.
Tressel since the first year Tressel was here, so I don't know that he's really that relevant. Herbie decided a while ago that his career would be helped by playing the anti-OSU OSU alum. IIRC, back in 2003/2004, he said that he'd never advise a player to go to OSU because they'd have no chance of an NFL career as long as Tressel was there. Fun fact: a neighbor of his in Upper Arlington says that Herbie didn't leave because of fans. Herbie left because Mrs. Herbie found out about Herbie's girlfriend. He'd also been feuding with various levels of government over taxes.
Every former OSU player who does not tow the company line is a fake buckeye (and, apparently in Herbie' s case, has his personal reputation trashed). Thanks for the reminder.
Herbstreit a few years ago, and I believe Upper Arlington and the state did too. He then leaves Ohio and moves to a state with no income tax. I agree that Tressel should go. I just don't think that Herbstreit is the victim he claims to be.
You make a good point: unless the NCAA all but forces tOSU's hand with a show cause, I think Tressel survives.
Tressel will resign. The only question is when. My prediction is sometime between now and July 5 (the date OSU's written response to the allegations is due).
In their written response, OSU and Tressel will be forced to admit that JT lied and knowingly violated bylaw 10.1. That will be devastating for JT and a major tipping point for the decision makers at OSU. Tressel will be convinced to leave on his own terms with some dignity (and plenty of money), purportedly "for the good of the program", rather than risk being forced out by the NCAA via a one year suspension (see Dez Bryant) or, even more humiliating, a "show cause" order. Fickel will be named HC because Urban Meyer will turn down the job (for now).
He's already admitted on national television that he violated 10.1. What difference does it make if it's in a letter or not?
He barely has been able to get the words "I'm sorry" out of his mouth and it took him multiple attempts just to do that.
I will be on pins and needles until I hear what food the OSU AD gets delivered to the Infractions Committee.
it would be different if jim tweasel wasn't a cheater with a long history but what has he won without cheating? which year did he actually have a good team that wasn't either caught for paying players or more accurately overlooked for that knowledge. if he survives and quite honestly I hope he does, it will be more than interesting to see him coach with no choice but to either run a clean program or run the program and his career into the ground. he no longer has the benefit of the doubt and has been branded a liar so any little hiccup even in the slightest from here out is going to be huge. anything they get at this point is substantially less than they deserve.
Let's be clear: while this conduct is against the rules, it's not cheating in the same way that, say, Spartan Bob stopped the clock against us to give MSU one last chance. Terrelle Pryor's free tattoos probably didn't give OSU any competitive advantages. Tressel is a good coach. Frankly, I hope he's fired because I think it will be hard for OSU to find an equally good replacement.
the issue isn't Pryor's tattoo's. It's that Tressell knew he might have an ineligible player and didn't report it to anyone....and that did give OSU a competitive advantage.
And isn't the coach supposed to be the responsible adult who follows the rules? It's one thing for a knuckle-headed 19 year-old to get caught up in free tattoos. It's another for a coach from a very prominent program to go to great lengths to hide it. That says a lot more about his character than any "classiness" he may exude.
It's that Tressell knew he might have an ineligible player and didn't report it to anyone..and that did give OSU a competitive advantage.
Only if this kind of thing (players being given freebies from people in the community) didn't go on at any of the 13 schools OSU faced last year, which is very, very hard to believe. The NCAA rulebook is so enormous and arcane that it's next to impossible to run a clean program nowadays. The key is just to avoid getting investigated.
...I think that's irrelevant. TP's free tats made him an ineligible player. Therefore, O$U had a competitive advantage because they were using several players they should not have.
Chris Webber taking money didn't make him a better (or worse) player for Michigan, just an ineligible one.
I don't disagree, but the "Maybe Tressel only wins because he cheats" line of reasoning is a major stretch - not least because things like Tattoogate probably go on at most schools. OSU is just the unlucky ones with the NCAA microscope on them this time around.
I don't think it's as major a stretch as you're saying it is...sure, he doesn't only win by cheating- you still have to prepare and coach. But there are a lot of athletes at tUOS right now that were highly sought after recruits before they committed.
You have to consider this outside the context of a few tattoos.
What exactly is going through the minds of recruits who see cash and free tattoos flowing like milk and honey? My guess is that adds up over time to create a very real competitive advantage.
You make a good point
I know that we talk about Cheaty McSweatervest and the like here a lot...
but this statement of charges really brings it out. Not sour grapes expressed about grey line issues, but big problems.
TheOSU has some fairly serious problems with their program honesty. I wonder if the NCAA is going to suspend the bosses for a year, and strip wins and players.
I wish I had a dime for every time I read how "classy" a guy Jim Tressel is. Even on this board, there has been an overwhelming sentiment that he is a great coach and a man of character. How fooled were we all?
Well, he's still a great coach.
The guy from the dispatch
Feel free to add to this list.. I haven't found any national writer that has said he should keep his job.. some think he will but none think he should
Love going over there and reading comments. This was in particular was fairly enjoyable:
4. The best thing we can do, at the end of the day, is get up off the mat, dust ourselves off, and represent our state and university to the best of our abilities. (I didn't quite graduate and all, but I am a BUCKEYE). Use this as a teaching point to young folks you mentor. Use this as a lesson when tempted. Use this as motivation to be your best. If you are the mailboy at work, be the best mailboy you can, you know?
Would it not be in their best interest at this point to just fire him and get it over with?
Surely dragging it out and making the NCAA force your hand will be worse for the program...
If they cut him loose now, they'll have the benefit of partially dissipating the dark cloud hanging over their program (at least in appearance)...they'd also have the huge benefit of getting a new coach at a time when he can build some momentum going into the season. At least hire an interim coach or something like that.
Also, if anyone else like Smith or Gee can be implicated in all of this, you've got to believe they are at this very moment considering ways to cover their tracks. They're probably looking for a way to get rid of Tressel before the hounds are onto their scent....
It's a bad situation as it is- the way they appear to be dragging it out will only make it worse for all parties.
Nothing good can come from letting Tressel remain as head coach for even another day.
However, I'm enjoying what seems to be half-hearted defiance and denial...it'll make the final consequences that much more severe.