OSU receives Notice of Allegations from NCAA
The 13 page document indicates that the NCAA might actually consider OSU a repeat violator because it was still on probation stemming from previous violations within the football and men's basketball programs. Very bad news.
http://www.dispatch.com/live/content/sports/stories/2011/04/25/0425-ohi…
April 25th, 2011 at 10:24 AM ^
April 25th, 2011 at 10:52 AM ^
Sounds like roughly the timetable we were on last year.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:23 AM ^
April 25th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
Its possible, but my inclination is that Meyer is done as a coach. He has a stress free job now as an analyst. He left a pretty good gig at Florida. Also, given that Herbie is a co-worker of his, he will definitely know what he is dealing with in terms of a rabid fan base.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
April 25th, 2011 at 11:15 AM ^
that Urban can put a fence around the state of Ohio and lock the state down like. Saban did at LSU. His actions at Florida did some damage image wise to a certain degree. Every recruit and for that matter some coaches will think just what you are expressing. How long before he melts down? how long before he has these "health issues" again?
Yeah, Urban has to be one of the easiest coaches to recruit negatively against (not that we do that). It wouldn't be hard to get a recruit wondering if his coach will retire for the third time at the drop of a hat. You're going to want a guy who will be there for four years, let alone two. I think he lost a lot of his mojo in the last two years with the retirements and lousy season they had post-Tebow, so I'm not as nervous about him taking over as I would have been three years ago.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:39 AM ^
About as realistic as the belief by many that we were going to hire Gruden.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:25 AM ^
We all hate the thought, but if they have to fire Tressel this year, TSIO is in a sticky spot. It is not a politically correct time to be poaching other teams' coaches. They would get negative publicity and would have to negotiate a buyout. It would be a giant PITA to hire someone who is coaching now. That leaves their current assistant Luke Fickell, who TSIO fans tout as the coach in waiting, or Meyer.
Meyer isn't under contract and reportedly had an out clause at Florida that specifically mentioned their school. The first time he "retired" at Florida, he changed his mind and went back. I can't imagine Meyer turning down TSIO, ND, or Michigan, no matter how happy he is at ESPN.
IF TSIO really decides they want Urban Meyer, they will get him. I hope Fickell has managed to keep his hands clean in the TSIO cesspool, because our worst nightmare as Michigan fans is to have a spread coach at TSIO.
It was the Carr-tel's inability to defend the spread that got Carr "retired" in the first place. NW upset them a few times using a spread they learned from RR, even using the same terminology. TSIO won the battle of the undefeateds in 2006 by using a pro-set hybrid of the spread in the first half.
Then there was "the horror" and the Oregon debacle. If TSIO gets a spread coach, whether it is spread option or a hybrid spread, Michigan is going to have a hard time winning two games against them this decade, and that overall series lead is going to look a lot smaller than it does now.
Far be it from me to tell anyone what to do, but I would heartily recommend hoping for Luke Fickell to be promoted or Saint Dantonio to be poached from MSU.
April 25th, 2011 at 12:00 PM ^
I like that you're suggesting that Hoke will not win against a "spread" OSU before his defense, or even his team, has played a single down. Give the man a chance before you pigeon-hole his defensive capabilities.
April 25th, 2011 at 12:57 PM ^
I stopped reading your post when I read: "It was the Carr-tel's inability to defend the spread that got Carr "retired" in the first place."
Bullshit. Carr retired on his own accord, this meme needs to die.
#1: I'd feel a lot more comfortable ascribing the inability to defend well against "spread" teams (giving you a wide lattitude for defining spread) to Ron English instead of Lloyd Carr's program generally. Thank all that is sweet and sacred, that man is not a part of our coaching staff now and I have little doubt that someone with Mattison's professional experience will be able to scheme and teach defensive concepts that counter systems which have now have been around for well over two decades and through a plethora of iterations and analyses. Also, lest you forget, Lloyd's program did just fine dealing with one of Urban's spread iterations headed by a future Heisman winner (albiet slightly injured and still somewhat inexperienced) by the tail end of that lovely season we lost to Oregon.
#2: "Carr-tel" is stupid.
#3: There is little reason to believe Urban retired for any reason other than his serious health conditions. Without the ability to control those, I have a hard time believing that a man will trade a lucrative analysist job and the ability to watch his daughters grow up for the chance to coach a team only slightly more pretigious than the one he walked away from in its prime.
is an embarassment to yourself and this fan community.
Carr had expressed desire to retire for some time, and was not shown out the door (unless you proof to the contrary? no? didn't think so).
Florida is a far more cush job than OSU, particularly given his near-deity-level status there. Meyer has said he wants to stay retired for health reasons, I see no reason to not hold him at his word after his cutting of ties with the UF program. If you have prove to the contrary, produce it or stop trolling.
And even then, Michigan (and the "Carr-tel") are 1-0 against Meyer... and that's with one of the greatest QBs in CFB history.
Also, news flash: our worst nightmare isn't to have a spread coach at OSU, it's to have a bad coach here at Michigan. We don't define ourselves by OSU (that's what MSU does with us), they are simply a rival that gives a good sense of our measure. If Michigan continues on a solid path towards elite defense under Mattison and if Hoke can make the offense operate at a high level, it doesn't matter who's coaching at OSU... we'll have a more than fair shot at beating them on our own terms.
GO BLUE!
they prematurely fired O'Brien after the basketball hijinx and had to pay dearly in the courts for wrongfully terminating him. Don't expect them to fire Tressel unless and until the NCAA has made an official ruling that he violated 10.1 or some other clearly documented aspect in the contract. There could be pressure to ask him to resign, but I really doubt there will be any firing prior to the ruling after the August hearing.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:09 AM ^
1-9 wasn't enough of a nightmare, huh?
OSU going to a spread full-time would be the best thing that could ever happen. It would open the door to kids that traditionally would have gone to OSU without question to start coming to U-M.
April 26th, 2011 at 12:28 AM ^
We saw a similar uptick in MSU's recruiting during the RR era because Michigan was looking for spread players. OSU abandoning Tresselball and 'dave' would be PBJ time on Mgoboard for days.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:18 AM ^
April 25th, 2011 at 12:08 PM ^
Who are you people that are scared of Urban Meyer? You say it would be worse to have him at OSU than Tressel. Really? We have beaten Tressel once.... ONCE! At the same time, it was the Michigan Wolverines who handed Urban Meyer his only bowl loss as a HC. Are you really planning/expecting to go 0-10 against a Meyer-coached OSU team?
Face it folks, regardless of who is the coach at OSU, they will always be our arch rival. This NCAA stuff may cause them to stumble for a year or two, but rest assured, it will end up being a mere bump in the road. If Meyer ends up being their coach somehow, good for them...they'll have a great coach (did you think they were gonna go hire a hack?). But what the hell kind of fan is "scared" of this?
April 25th, 2011 at 11:21 PM ^
seem to forget their best players were a bunch of sophmores vs a bunch of what seemed like can't miss potential pros made of seniors. harvin was a sophmoer the pounceys were freshmen and the tight end was a freshman tebow was a sophmore
April 25th, 2011 at 10:27 AM ^
It's no coincidence that the Dispatch article came out at the same time that OSU received its Notice of Allegations. Public bodies like OSU often rely on a provision in FOIA (in Ohio it's called the "Open Records Act") that relieve the public body from responding while an investigation is ongoing. Usually, the "investigation" is by traditional law enforcement (police, FBI, etc...) but in this case my bet is that OSU claimed the "investigation" exception also applied to the NCAA.
Now that the investigation is complete (can someone confirm this?) I would imagine that OSU will be producing documents in response to all the outstanding FOIA requests. There will probably be some big legal battles to come. For instance, the Dispatch notes that many records from President Gee and Gene Smith remain outstanding. That is where the fight will be, because OSU has the most at stake with those documents.
Believe it or not, the details are JUST beginning to emerge. Perhaps OSU decided to respond to the Dispatch first because that news organization will probably be more sympathetic in its coverage than the national outlets.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^
It is hard to say which way the Dispatch will go. I have talked with many OSU alums over the last month and there seems to be almost universal agreement that Tressel is no longer wanted or needed. Not unlike Michigan alums, most OSU alums went to their school to get an education and appreciate the value of the piece of paper they received. Football is the icing on the cake.
Where the dichotomy comes in is with the non-alum OSU fanbase, who only care about football and don't have the academic ties to OSU nor, in many cases, the brains that go with it.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:24 AM ^
with that Bluenote. The other part of the puzzle the NCAA may have trouble accessing are the phone records of several player (Pryor mainly and his mentor/businessman non booster). The NCAA may have to piggyback off of the FBI's charges against the drug dealer tatoo parlor owner to get those if they are a part of that investigation.
In the articles they mention that Tressel contacted to FBI shortly after Tressel was notified by the lawyer. I wonder what that conversation was really about.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:34 AM ^
I don't see how the NCAA can screw this up. All the evidence they need is right there. Further investigation can only make it worse for Ohio State.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:29 AM ^
I don't see how the NCAA can screw this up.
You clearly don't give the NCAA enough credit for being the hacks they are.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:36 AM ^
Andy Staples just tweeted, "Dept. of Irony: Banner on front of tOSU athletics site right now asks fans to BID ON PLAYER WORN JERSEYS."
They are former players' jerseys, but still.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:37 AM ^
from the ncaa and the notice
http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=17300&ATCLI…
April 25th, 2011 at 10:54 AM ^
I find myself strangely aroused.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:40 AM ^
I would temper your expectations of some sort of banhammer coming down on OSU.
Article states it will likely fall somewhere between Bama and USC over the last 5 years.
Bama: Vacated wins, no schollies lost, and no post season ban.
USC: Vacated wins, lost schollies and two year postseason ban.
Thus, it will fall somewhere between "no big deal" (Bama) and "looks big on the surface, but through the appeals process, we can delay the potential damning effect on our program. Oh, and BTW, our program is so strong and our recruiting ties are so solid, this likely will only have a small negative effect on us." (USC).
April 25th, 2011 at 11:01 AM ^
My two cents is that people may be grossly overestimating how bad this is going to be for OSU. Bruce Pearl lied to the NCAA about his own violation and was suspended, I think, for seven out of 30-odd games. Tressel is already suspended for five out of thirteen...I think that vacated wins may be the only thing added on to what OSU has already done to itself.
Also, and I say this based on no more expertise than living in OSU country, OSU is not going to fire Tressel over this.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:03 AM ^
Agreed.
Add probation and that'll be it. This report is a good thing for OSU. They didn't find anything new and the process seems to be moving along.
Pearl was suspended for 8 games before any NCAA ruling. He got fired when UT heard the NCAA was going to come down hard. I'll be shocked if Tressel keeps his job. OSU may not want to fire him, but they won't have any choice.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:20 AM ^
being way under the 85 scholarship number. By appealing they were able to sign 31 because they backloaded EE to the previous year. If the NCAA doesn't give in, they will be greatly affected during the next three years by only being able to sign 15 players per year.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:41 AM ^
Yeah but that is the worst case for USC.
And that is probably beyond the worst case for OSU.
Just, temper your expectations people. Maybe OSU gets hit hard here, but I doubt it. The things that should happen, regardless:
- Vacate the wins in 2010. This has about a 99% chance of happening.
- Uphold the 5 game suspensions. This has about a 90% chance of happening, with only 10% they are longer.
Then it's really who takes the blame:
- Tressel falls on the sword, gets fired, OSU just has to vacate the wins
- OSU falls on the sword, vacates wins, loses schollies, and potentially banned from postseason play for a year. Has the option to keep Tressel.
- Everyone's blown up. Think USC if Carrol hadn't gotten out of town.
- Nothing's blown up. Think Bama.
5. FOIA requests show that Troy Smith threw the national championship game and Columbus actually explodes.
I WANT 5!
I think the big part of the hammer is going to fall on Tressell. And, to be fair, all the public evidence seems to indicate the biggest sins were completely contained within his personal discretion. At the same time, it has seemed like something has stunk about the program for a long time and the syncophantic response by the OSU administration to the early parts of this scandal make it hard for me to believe their compliance process has been as thorough and comprehensive as it has been ascribed to be.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:44 AM ^
So, OSU is not charged with "lack of institutional control" or "failure to monitor"? Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't RR charged with "failure to monitor"? If the NCAA can allege that wrong was done by RR, how can it not allege the same of Tressel? RR (and folks know I'm no defender of his) didn't lie, didn't cover-up, etc. It concerns me that the NCAA's allegations of wrongdoing might be lighter than they should be...which could lead to a smaller punishment then deserved.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:55 AM ^
My understanding is that "failure to monitor" is a charge against the institution moreso than the coach. Tressel is being charged with a very bad (10.1) violation - my guess on the NCAA thought process is that the blame for this falls entirely on Tressel and that the OSU compliance department had no reasonable way of knowing the violations occurred (since the information was supposedly withheld from them by Tressel). This differs from RR's violations, which were occurring more or less in the open and should have been caught by the compliance department if they were doing due diligence.
Of course, if the investigation determines that OSU did know what Tressel knew, all bets are off - nothing prevents the NCAA from adding a "failure to monitor" charge at a later date.
April 25th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
of a desperate attempt to suggest it WAS only Tressel (see "Tressel falling on his sword" meme). Because if higher ups were aware then this IS a failure of institutional control and boom go the big guys.
On the other hand (argues agains self), it could be the reason why Tressel failed to pass on the memos: he knew they were courting institutional self-immolation.
Either way--you call the FBI before you call your boss? You don't bust your players when their gold pants show up in drug busts? Do not pass Go, dude.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:53 AM ^
There was a better occasion for "jajaja23" to "find" one of those Google Wave chats, (this time between JT and a few others in tOSU administration) I don't know what it would be.
April 25th, 2011 at 10:57 AM ^
Those expecting something terrible to happen to OSU will be disappointed.
Without even a "failutre to monitor" charge, the penalties will be relatively minor.
By many accounts, Gene Smith has been telling people the worst is over. Tressel is certainly not going to lose his job.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:43 AM ^
April 25th, 2011 at 11:02 AM ^
can someone please explain to me how the fuck this whole situation is not regarded as "failure to monitor or failure of institutional control"?
Should I be pissed that the NCAA appears to have left the most serious charges off the OSU program because to my (admittedly not violation savy) mind, this seems like they are letting them off the hook.
Any help on this subject would be appreciated
April 25th, 2011 at 11:37 AM ^
but I'm thinking IF the compliance and or AD knew about the situation and did nothing or somehow tried to cover it up the institution could get failure to monitor.
Any all corrections are welcome.
April 25th, 2011 at 12:03 PM ^
Conversely, IF the compliance department and/or AD really DIDN'T know, then they can't be charged with "failure to monitor" (presumably it's not their duty to read Tressel's private emails) - or at least that's the argument, right? As you said, somebody correct me if I'm wrong.
Yeah, failure to monitor is basically a conspiracy charge. It's hard to argue conspiracy when no one else in the department knows anything about it.
If a compliance department is firing on all cylinders, it would pretty much take a conspiracy to earn a failure to monitor charge.
But a compliance department that is inept will be vulnerable to the same charge with or without the conspiracy.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:16 AM ^
The athletes involved have already been dealt with and are not a part of this investigation.
April 25th, 2011 at 11:21 AM ^
Can anyone explain why everyone seems to think Tressel will survive this? They actually have now charged him with a 10.1 violation, and coaches don't survive those.
Whether he gets fired from OSU (probably won't happen) or gets a show-cause (has happened in virtually every other case) it still means he won't be on the sidelines by the time they come up here in November.
Maybe I'm giving the NCAA too much credit, but they have reacted that way towards BCS conference coaches before.