good luck with that idea...
OSU proposal: vacate 2010, but no scholly losses or bowl bans
This is a fucking joke.
I think I should get probation..........
Sincerely, Jeffrey Dahmer
or more appropriately, casey anthony.
The bridge is out up ahead!!! Hit the one on the left:
did you really expect anything less from the school that proposed a 2 game suspension for tressel lying about known violations?
I expected them to learn from that blunder, but oh well....
Learning from your mistakes is what intelligent people do. Ohio State and intelligent people....not so much.
is that sources say they've admitted being repeat violators, but say that vacating these wins and nothing else is the proper punishment.
Do they understand what rules they actually broke?!?!?
I thought they'd go pretty light -- something like 3 scholarships a year for 2 years -- but I never thought they'd ask for zero scholarship losses.
Either they have really good reason to be confident or they're insane.
The only thing in the NOA is that Tressel lied. I don't know how serious the NCAA usually comes down on a program for that.
Tressel will likely get a substantial show-cause, but beyond that the NCAA needs to accuse OSU of more to get to serious punishment, IMO.
I'm not expecting bowl bans or anything. But I thought they'd offer up token scholarship reductions just to show that they were acknowledging they did something wrong.
Since I've now read the article, them finding another player might be a big deal. Why did their process fail the first time, and why did Smith emphatically state that after a "thorough" investigation that no further players had violated rules?
the hasty 11 day "internal investigation" that concluded that "this is an isolated event. we are very fortunate that we have discovered and are positive that this is an isolated event."
WHAT A FUCKING JOKE.
OSU not is proposing these punishments in response to any allegations re: Talbott or large parts of the SI article or anything to do with cars...OSU isn't going to get any bowl bans or scholarship reductions, I don't think, until it's charged with lack of institutional control, which hasn't happened yet.
They will face serious punishment. You have to stop thinking about this as being about OSU and start thinking about the broader narrative.
The NCAA isn't stupid. They weren't letting these programs get away with murder before because they were blind or dumb. They did it because they depend on college football, and the strength of national brands. They let things go because it was in their best interest to maintain the appearance of propriety in college sports and to make certain that valuable brands were not diminished.
They can't do that anymore. The narrative has changed. Pandora's box has opened wide and the media is connecting the dots. In the last year: USC, Auburn, North Carolina, OSu and now Oregon. The narrative has changed and people are paying attention.
The NCAA's best interest before was in playing blind, deaf and dumb. Now that the dirt in the system is on public display and getting worse, the NCAA's interest in showing they can crack down. They have to, or the narrative will end with the belief that they are a toothless organization and college football is too dirty to be saved. For the NCAA, that's just bad buisness.
The NCAA will hit OSU hard, will hit UNC hard and will hit Oregon hard. They will keep hitting these programs until the narrative shifts again, to where they can at least claim that they're doing something to decentivize these rogue, championship level programs from running amok. They don't have a choice.
Being a 501 c(3) organization, I would think that the NCAA had better do something big or risk facing a congressional hearing and losing their tax exempt status.
A very real possibility. At this point it's very clear that you can build a money making, nationally recognized football team through corrupt dealings. That's Oregon became a football powerhouse. that's how UNC attracts talent so good they don't need to play a down their final year to be drafted in the first round. And everybody knows it.
If the NCAA backs off, it's basically a greenlight for every program who wants to win to follow Oregon's example. Anybody can make it big. It'll be like a wild west boomtown without law. People are already questioning the "amateur" status of college football. The NCAA knows that if this becomes an institution based on money and only on money, they will cease to exist.
I'd like to see Congress tell the NCAA "Either drop the hammer of the gods on Ohio State, UNC, Tennessee, Auburn and oregon or we'll drop the hammer on you."
But what about the NARRATIVE?? Who's going to protect the NARRATIVE??
It's like the story my dad used to tell me about when he did something wrong and his mom told him go outside and get a switch off of a tree for a whipping. Now, he got to pick it, but he knew either way he was gonna be fucked. Too small and she went and got one to her liking. Too big and he was just asking for trouble. I think OSU just picked the smallest twig they could find and once the NCAA sees it I hope they go outside and get a log to beat them with.
"My old man just used to lay out a wrench, a switch, and a belt and say 'Choose'"
"I'd have to go with the belt there, Chief"
"Naw, I always chose the wrench"
"Why the wrench?"
"Because fuck him, that's why"
People seem to miss this point.
It would be interesting to see what punishments schools have received when their coach violates bylaw 10.1.
OSU did self imposed a basketball post season ban (but no scholly loses?) when Jim O'Brien was fired.
Cal/ Bozerman- vacated wins, probation.
Minnesota/ Haskins- vacated wins, probation.
Baylor/ Bliss- no OOC games for a year, vacated wins, probation.
IU/ Sampson- probation.
Well done. So.... it doesn't seem terribly out of line to me
*ducks for cover*
Haskins' violations also yielded a 1 year postseason ban and 11 docked scholarships over 4 years.
I stand corrected, I was rushing and must have missed it, so...what he said ^^.
Yes, but the reason the repeat offender tag was created is for exactly this type of situation. If OSU's punishment for O'brien's sins was to just vacate some games and receive probation, the punishment for Tressel's violations should be greater.
I prefer they receive *tangible* penalties.
That is what they will more than likely get.
Let's hope that golf thing pans out and the people involves actually cooperated, or yes, I do think this might actually stick.
2+ year bowl ban
5 scholarships a year for 3 years.
against Pryor and others turn out to be proved/ believed by the NCAA they could end up being ineligible for all of 2009, 2008, and more if they look into other players named in the SI article. 2 year bowl ban doesn't really hurt a team that much, it only affects the upperclassmen who might decide to transfer/ declare for the draft. 3+ years affects incoming recruits. At USC they "appealed" the sanctions so that the 2 year bowl ban took place, then after the ban is lifted the limited scholarships took effect. The limited scholarship year kids can play in a bowl their freshman year with only a 2 year ban in that case. They don't really care about how many or how few of them are in a class, just the bowl game. I say let them recruit as many kids as they want, but have a 5 year ban. That will hurt who they can recruit.
That's a good start to the sanctions.
This will not end well for them. If I was USC and read this proposed punishment, I would fall out of my chair laughing.
From my understanding, they don't really have to respond with more than what they did YET, because the NCAA hasn't updated their notice of allegations with the additional info about the cars, and other shadyness that came out later.
They're not expecting any additional allegations.
osu has been thumbing their nose at the NCAA this whole time. i guess we'll have to wait and see what happens, but this seems like another joke.
"Sources said the university concedes it is a repeat offender, but contends it has responded appropriately, imposed fitting sanctions on its football program and should face no further punishment"
This can't be true with what they proposed!
I will be shocked if it turns out they are not challenging the repeat offender tag.
crazy Buckeyes. What they are doing is thumbing their noses at the NCAA. "Yeah NCAA, what about it?... screw you." OSU isn't even contrite. I hope this pisses somebody off within the NCAA, and they decide to make an example of them.
once when I was a kid, I still got spanked pretty bad and grounded and my stuff taken away. I can understand the administrations mindset, they know they are royally screwed, and are afraid of getting the punishment they deserve, so they're giving themselves 1/10th of that punishment and are now hoping that will be enough. Unfortunately when the noble thing would be to fall on your own sword, falling on your own butter knife instead hardly seems enough.
Gordon Gee is the greatest college president in the country. He's the best person since Jesus! this is plenty punishment enough for such an upstanding leader of such a phenomenal institution of higher learning. In other words, they are freaking delusional.
More arrogance plz!
I actually did a double-take after reading that article. I was sure I was at The Onion.
"Ohio State is admitting major violations of NCAA regulations, but says it should not face harsh punishment because no OSU official other than Tressel was aware of player violations."
This obviously makes very little sense. The problems were so rampant at OSU that you have to believe that some of the assistant knew what was going on. And those assistants are still employed by OSU.
Oh wow, just saw this:
Apparently Tress doesn't have to pay his fine and is in fact getting money from the university. OSU is just digging themselves into a deeper hole...
This probably deserves its own thread. Nothing says "It's all Tressel's fault" quite like not making him pay his fine and paying him instead.
This response makes me pretty nervous that they have reason to believe they won't be getting hit that hard. "We said bye to Terrelle, we said bye to Tressel, everything is great now!"
Don't forget allowing him to retire instead of resign/get fired, so he can be classifed at a state retiree and get good health insurance benefits
They are either very arrogant, or they know the NCAA isn't going to nuke them from orbit. The NCAA has to act. Their credibility... what little they have, is at stake.