OSU notice of allegations question
According to this article OSU has only received a Notice of Allegation for the misconduct know prior to the Tressel stepdown (which I guess is true). My question is are they or do any of you think OSU will receive a seperate NoA for all this other misconduct that has come out, to include a LOIC?
If they do not receive another NoA, then all the new information means nothing. If that is the case then I would think their punishment will be lighter than USC.
http://www.theclevelandfan.com/ohio-state-buckeyes/3-buckeye-archive/8266-buckeye-leaves
This is all becoming so confusing.
I JUST WANNA SEE EM F*CKED
is that too much to ask?
that would be another violation. Let's take their recruiting class and put 60 points on them next year (and hold them under 21).
let's skip the talking parts
Proper F#$ked?
If the NCAA finds something new, they'll have to tell OSU about it with another NOA (I assume)
It was about 3 1/2 months between when OSU reported the Tressel emails and when the NCAA handed out the NOA. I assume the NCAA could work faster if they really wanted to, but it would seem like they'd be hard pressed to give OSU something in time for the August 12th hearing.
I'm hoping a new NOA is issued soon as well. I know OSU has until July 5th to respond to the original, so maybe the NCAA is waiting for that?
I imagine they'd HAVE to issue a new NoA to proceed with this new stuff. the old one doesn't put OSU on notice as to what is being alleged, and it doesn't contain the kind of discovery requests that would be relevant to this new line of inquiry.
This would be after their hearing, which I think is planned in August. So I would not expect anything probably until early next year.
So you're saying this is going to drag on for a while?
Crap, I'm gonna need to start buying my popcorn in bulk...
(not that they care), if tsio gets anything close to USC.
USC violations involved a player, tsio's involve the coach ... this is a HUGE difference. This is why every coach that violated 10.1 has lost their job. Everyone is relating this to USC because they are the most recent "big name program" found to have violated NCAA rules, but tsio's NCAA violations are significantly worse as it represents a total disregard of the rules, then lying to the NCAA (and IMO I think Gene Smith knew about all of this).
tressel had a history of cheating all the way back to Youngstown State, he's been doing this for his entire time at tsio. He just got caught ... and then lied !
If the NCAA has any "balls" this will be the future standard for all NCAA penalties.
Go Blue !
This is one of my issues with these types of investigations. The harder the hammer OSU, the worse it is for the NCAA. Peope say the NCAA "has no balls", but in reality I feel like they are balancing public image (they want people to think they are enforcing rules) with their self serving interests. What the NCAA really needs is to have an independent third party that does the investigations and deals out the punishments. This could remove the conflict of interest in enforcing the rules.
Totally agree about the NCAA looking to achieve some sort of balance and I think it's a point that's often overlooked. Nevertheless, I don't think the solution is as cookie-cutter simple as hiring a third party nor do I think the NCAA would even consider it solely out of fear that (God forbid!) someone else would ne getting a sliver of their billion dollar sweet apple pie.
The other point is that the basketball tournament isn't predicated on OSU representing the Big Ten; the NCAA would be really concerned if there was ridiculous corruption in the conference itself, but doesn't stand to lose anything if one program fell off the face of the earth.
OSU won't be banned from any sport forever because of this, partially because everyone knows it's unfair and partially because Delaney and whoever Smith's replacement is do hold political power within the organization. However, the people bringing up money as a motive aren't quite getting the system.
"The NCAA doesn't really have an interest in what happens to any school's football program, because the NCAA doesn't make money off of football--the schools and conferences keep it for themselves"
While this is technically true, the people who actually staff the NCAA are often coaches and administrators at the member institutions, or else are people who have worked in those positions and left for the NCAA--meaning they still have close relationships with people at the regulated schools and could potentially return to jobs at those schools in the future.
This is very much the same problem you see in government when you have people from regulated industries working for the regulatory body, and then returning to the industry. On one hand, it presents a definite conflict-of-interest problem. On the other hand, the regulatory agency may not be effective without drawing on the expertise its employees gain working in the field.
Cope, I agree, that is exactly what I was thinking after reading that article. "oh shit they are going to get away with all this"
most people thought tressel wasn't going to get fired either .... not sayin, just sayin !
Go Blue !
There is no particular schedule when a Notice of Allegations is released. It happens when the investigators are ready. This case is more complex than the original Tresselgate cover-up, because there are many more facts that need to be chased down. It is, of course, possible that they will find no further violations that meet their standard of proof, but I find that highly unlikely.
Some Michigan fans are worried that the Buckeyes will escape without further damage, given the recent finding by the Ohio Bureau of Motor Vehicles that no violations occurred. But remember, the BMV was not investigating whether NCAA rules were followed, only whether Ohio state law was followed. One is unrelated to the other.
There remains, for instance, the issue of Terrelle Pryor’s liberal access to loaner cars. Pryor could very well have violated NCAA rules without violating any state law. There is also the finding of OSU’s own internal audit that their compliance department did not have adequate systems in place to monitor athletes’ vehicles and equipment inventories.
With all of that, I would be surprised if there is no further NoA. I also agree that, without one, OSU is probably not looking at USC-level sanctions, though I think the sanctions would still be significant.
I wonder if the NCAA cares about the enormous media backlash that will follow the lack of another NoA! These guys have got to know that everyone is watching. I don't think that OSU fans realize it either.
The NCAA shouldn't care about what the media thinks. Do we really want the Detroit Free Presses of the world handing out punishments?
They didn't care about the media with Cam Newton. Doubt they'll start caring now.
I wonder how Pryor's never serving his 5 game suspension affects the already settled issues. Could this reopen things for OSU?
He's serving a permanent suspension
Pryor’s suspension was a personal sanction, not an institutional one. Once a player leaves the program, he is no longer under NCAA jurisdiction. The issue is the lie Tressel told, in order to get Pryor and his buddies eligible in the first place.
Keep in mind that this is a semi-fiskable article. Among the more spurious claims:
- Dennis Talbott has no connection to the program. A, this doesn't matter one bit, really, since UNC just got slapped with failure to monitor for allowing Chris Hawkins - who "had no connection to the program" - hang around campus, as well as naming multiple agents and other benefactors also with no connection to the program. And B, OSU had to ban Talbott in 2010 from any connection with the program, which implies that there certainly was some in the past.
- As was pointed out above, the BMV only found that no laws were broken. No laws were broken by the tattoo parlor either, but hey, the NCAA didn't seem to care.
- Wismar assumes that another NOA isn't coming down the pike, which, if anything was found out about Terrelle Pryor other than getting tattoos from that one tattoo parlor, isn't the case. The NCAA slapped UNC's pee-pee for one of their now-NFL-employed athletes (probably Marvin Austin) being uncooperative. There's no way the NCAA didn't get to TP before he made his break and there's no way TP was even the slightest bit cooperative.
- As an example of the above, he glosses over the Talbott checks deposited in Pryor's account. In order to calm the masses, Wismar writes that all have been punished appropriately, which simply isn't true. OSU is going to have to answer for that. Wismar also implies Talbott only hosted some players for golf, which isn't even close to the extent of Talbott's involvement here.
- Also forgotten: Pryor's equipment sales. These come down to a rock and a hard place for OSU. Either they should be slapped with failure to monitor, for having no clue at all that equipment was disappearing from the room, or they should get slapped with LOIC for allowing TP to take the stuff. Totally ignored by Wismar, as is the fact that TP's equipment excursions happened after the department was warned by the auditors specifically to watch that stuff.
So yeah. This prediction of no scholarship losses and no evil eye being pointed at the OSU brass is pretty far off.
Rack em.
from the story:
His claim that Talbott is not a booster is absurd. Following is the relevant NCAA Bylaw that defines "a representative of the institution's athletics interests" (i.e., a booster)
13.02.14 Representative of Athletics Interests. A “representative of the institution’s athletics interests” is an individual, independent agency, corporate entity (e.g., apparel or equipment manufacturer) or other organization who is known (or who should have been known) by a member of the institution’s executive or athletics administration to:
(a) Have participated in or to be a member of an agency or organization promoting the institution’s intercollegiate athletics program;
(b) Have made financial contributions to the athletics department or to an athletics booster organization of that institution;
(c) Be assisting or to have been requested (by the athletics department staff) to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes;
(d) Be assisting or to have assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student-athletes or their families; or
(e) Have been involved otherwise in promoting the institution’s athletics program.
13.02.14.1 Duration of Status. Once an individual, independent agency, corporate entity or other organization is identified as such a representative, the person, independent agency, corporate entity or other organization retains that identity indefinitely.
Don't see how he doesn't get squeezed in to (e). Bottom line, if Ed Martin was a booster, Dennis Talbott is a booster.
USC's stonewalling no doubt triggered harsher penalties in the end. But their main violations involved misdeed by a single player and the a position coach's failure to detect same.
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<br>OSU deserves penalties at least as severe as USC's because they involve stonewalling (or, at the very least, whitewashing) by the school based on code-red violations committed by the head coach, in addition to several players. The NCAA will no doubt reason that a head coach should be held to the highest standards. He cheated, gained a competitive advantage, ignored persistent warnings, then repeatedly lied to investigators. Not to mention his history of sleaze. Not to mention the NCAA's warpath. Translation: hammertime.
Stewart Mandell's mail bag talking about OSU/UNC/Oregon
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/stewart_mandel/06/22/mailbag/index.html?sct=cf_wr_a1