spoiler alert: i linked this
OSU no longer recruiting Derrick Green
RT @BrOoKyLn_boii27: The Ohio State Coaching Staff has decided to go in another direction.
Well, Urban would have gotten him if he really wanted to.
Not sure if this really helps our chances considering we only have room for 1 more player correct? And I would assume that's for Treadwell whenever he decides to hop on and finish the class before the season even starts.
WOTS via Sam Webb is that we're taking 25.
Two. Treadwell if he wants it and probably whoever comes in first.
We criticize the SEC for oversigning, but aren't we doing the same thing?
the coaching staff knows more about this than we do. They are not signing thirtysome players and there may be attrition we are not yet aware of...
Oversigning is when you allow more kids to sign Letters of Intent than you have openings. If nothing changes between now and February (no one leaves the team, no one is kicked off the team, no one suffers a career-ending injury, etc), and Michigan signs this number of kids, THAT would be oversigning.
Don't get me wrong, it's not good to give a kid the "sorry, I know you committed a while ago, but there is no room at the Inn" speech in January (still an unlikely scenario, but possible), it's much better than the "sorry, I know you enrolled already, but there's no room" speech.
Agreed, and we've seen it here before. There have been a couple of "mutual parting of ways" where a worse recruit decommits towards the end of the recruiting cycle in the past few years. These arent perfectly ok, but they're a hell of a lot more ok than forcing a kid out on NSD or once they enroll. Then again, we said the exact same thing last year and it worked out just fine. On this issue more than anything else, trust in the coaches.
Under Hoke? Who are you talking about?
It definitely wasn't one of the 2012 recruits. By all accounts, Standifer had an academic eligibility issue (he hadn't taken Spanish or something). Pharaoh Brown was highly regarded and took a trip to Oregon, so the coaches started planning as though he wouldn't come. Caleb Stacey decommitted because he wanted to stay closer to home (Cincinnati), and then he immediately committed to the University of Cincinnati.
I think the redshirt juniors provide the coaches with a lot of flexibility. Sure, there are some guys you don't want to lose there, but if you don't end up with as many spots as you expected, there's nothing sleazy about congratulating those guys on finishing their Michigan degrees and wishing them the best. I can't imagine they were promised five years on scholarship.
I always thought Stacey was like that, but that ones debatable to say the least. I do remember a few under RR (though I don't remember names at this point) but nobody was upset about it. Just the coaches telling a player that they're not really interested any more and the player moving on.
I think Rodriguez was guilty of this. Honestly, it was one of the things I didn't like about him. There were guys who said that Rodriguez & co. completely cut off contact at some point after their commitments, and then Rodriguez said something like “sometimes, a guy does you a favor when he decommits” at his Signing Day press conference. (That's quoted from Varsity Blue.)
I really don't think we've seen this under Hoke, though, and it would seem out of character for him.
we don't really know what was said up front and during the process either. If open and honest communication occurred, then a late recruiting period mutual parting of ways is an acceptable outcome.
I always thought the Newsome departure just before Tate committing, and the Beaver departure just before Denard committing were suspect activity., but it is still not Alabama or LSU level activity.
The other thing is, doing this hurts a coaches recruiting cache at area schools in the future. People remember when so-an-so got committed to a scholarship offer and then got screwed. Coaches and players will be a lot less receptive after that (unless you are Saban or Miles and can wave around recent NC rings).
Tony Drake, for one, stated that almost all communication was cut off and he felt he wasn't wanted anymore so he decommitted and moved on.
That being said, these are 16 to 20 year old kids we're talking about. My wife is 29 and she changes her mind about things on an hourly basis for reasons only known to her. The same goes with these kids. In Terrence's case the desire to play in a more competetive environment may just not be there anymore. Good luck to him, he will be missed.
Already have 20 open scholarships in 2013. Then you add some from the following:
- Still unknown which RS Juniors will be asked back for a 5th year. Most likely not to return: Mike Jones, Quinton Washington, Brendan Gibbons, and Cam Gordon.
- Will either Taylor Lewan or Fitz Toussaint enter the NFL Draft early?
- Transfers or academic/displinary casualties over next 6 months?
I believe between these 3 categories we will lose 4-5 players before Signing Day.
Brendan Gibbons is our starting PK. Cam is one of two SAM backers, and Q is a back up in a thin group. It would take them not to contribute much at all this year to not be asked back.
There's more to it than that. You have to weigh the costs and benefits of using that extra scholarship year on one of those guys versus bringing in a new recruit a year earlier (2013 instead of 2014). If Matt Wile turns into Remy Hamilton this year and you're faced with a decision between one more year for Gibbons versus a Leon McQuay or Derrick Green, then Gibbons' performance might not even be relevant. The same goes for any of the fifth-year senior spots. Most of them are likely to be big contributors in their fifth years, so you'd like to keep them for that last year, but you have to consider what's in the best long-term interests of the program.
who made the winning field goal in the Sugar bowl.
No one forgot. But he's not the only guy in the world that can make that kick. I think that's what he means.
He's the only guy who can make it while thinking of brunettes.
Dropped Michigan out of his top three and replaced UM with Florida State
I was just listing possibilities, but Khoury leaving shows being in the 2-deep is not automatic to returning for a 5th yr. Khoury played a position of limited depth just like Q. Some kids move on with their life like Khoury. If Cam Gordon is not a starter, he may not decide to come back or be asked back. There is going to be a lot of competition at LB in 2013.
And I don't see it as a stretch for Gibbons not to be back. Yes, he was our starter last year, but he is still an average kicker with limited range (2 years ago he looked like he would never hold on to the job). Maybe Wile or Broekhuizen passes him on the depth chart this fall.
I was honestly very surprised Khoury moved on. Now we have Barnum at Center and ??? at Guard. But if B*%$n could start at Guard as a freshman then Kalis surely has what it takes...
Khoury is a different story, he left on his own accord, and most people felt he just wasn't a football player. I don't think any of those guys will fall into that category.
but even Terrance Robinson was a ST contributor. It is hard to predict how competition will shape up over the next 6 months. If Gordon or Q get passed on the depth chart by a freshman or sophomore, they may not be back.
Also just wondering, when was the last time Michigan had a 5th year scholarship kicker?
Delonte Hollowell made T Rob expendable.
And wasn't Rivas a 5th year kicker?
And Bryan Wright I am fairly certain wasn't around for 5 years. Hard to tell which kickers in the 90s were on scholarship for 5th years.
Your dumb and have no idea what you are talking about, but thanks for commenting
I don't get those assumptions either. Then again.. Anyone getting buried on the depth chart by the frosh could buck. If Pipkins, Godin or Henry unseat Wilkins, Ash or Q they could easily transfer. Same goes for Poole with the linebackers they have coming in. Mike Jones definitely won't be asked back with Bolden in AA. I would think either Furman or T Carter could transfer if Wilson impresses. Honestly Ricardo Miller could transfer any day. We'll see anything can happen.
Reportedly suffered a season ending injury.
But Cam is a back up to a guy a year his junior, who next year will have another recruit for a back up, and a load of linebackers to flip around if someone gets hurt. So not out of the question. And Q is back up in a thin group? The depth chart has him as one of 6 back ups at his position-
With Jones you're talking a minimum of 2-3 who probably won't be back.
In econ many years ago, I learned that airlines overbook flights because of the expected number of people who will be late or cancel their reservations, etc. There are times that more people than expected show up and that's when they offer airline credit for voluntarily hopping on a later flight. It's just a strategy utilized to maximize profit.
Same thing for us, we want to maximize our talent pool with the expected number of attrition seen from year to year. We just don't want to be in the airline situation mentioned above come signing day.
Franks good as gone so there's an opening.
If he actually went into a random person's dorm room and stole their laptop, then I'd say it's unlikely he stays in school. UM has a no tolerance policy for that sort of thing, and Hoke has shown a pretty tough stance wrt punishment thus far. Also, his incident happened immediately before the coaches (reportedly) bumped the class to 25. That could be for many reasons, but it's possible that it's not a coincidence.
I agree, but I highly doubt that's what really happened. If so, he'd already be gone, most likely. And the 25 count just came out today, but Hoke has known about Clark for months.
and stole a laptop, we would see a larceny charge. It isn't like the prosecutor's office is shy about charges.
Sorry but on what basis does UM have a "no tolerance policy" for stealing laptops? You know we haven't expelled a student since the 1970s, right?
Maybe you were referring to the football program / this coaching staff, in which case I don't know that any of us can say for sure, since they have yet to deal with an analogous situation. But coming from someone who worked in UM's disciplinary office for 2 years, I can assure you that the University as a whole has nothing even close to resembling a "no tolerance policy."
Hoke can count, and once again proves that the coaching staff knows more about this stuff than the rest of us.
Yea, I should know better. Never doubt Hoke/trust the coaches
Based on everything we've seen, this coaching staff isn't the type to offer more LOIs than they have spots or "roster manage" beyond letting kids who are down on the depth chart leave/kick out kids who are convicted of crimes, which is standard operating procedure for every college team.
Sure, if they sign 4 more kids to LOIs and suddenly Dileo is getting medical'ed, then I'd be suspicious. But right now, the staff seems to know how big a class they need, and they'll hopefully sign those kids.
Now everyone is saying we have 1-2 spots, but who knows really
This is what interests me, if we weren't recruiting him anymore, I think the coaches would have told him by now (like we did with O'Daniel). This makes me think that either 1. we are taking two more players or 2. Either Green or Treadwell could take the last spot (meaning that it's not guarenteed for Treadwell or even for a WR)
If Michigan wasn't recruiting Green, he would have known by now. The coaches do a good job of informing kids of their intentions. Especially with the BBQ approaching.
Recruiting is so fluid, anything can happen between now and January. We could very well end up having a spot for him.
"I like-a do the cha-cha..."
Regardless, it'll be tough to get him to commit. BUT it's good to hear if he's not with us, he won't be in the BIG 10.
My thoughts exactly. Likely not headed here, but I'd rather not see him at OSU.
Urban just did this so that if he commits to us post-barbecue, it doesn't count as a head-to-head victory for Hoke. He's a sly one, that Urban.
Probably Auburn. Wouldn't have seen much time with DunnBall anyways.
Because Dunn has proven himself an unstoppable force already? Sorry, not trying to be a jerk but just wondering if Dunn is slated to break out this season. Doesn't he have to surpass Jordan Hall, Rod Smith, and Carlos Hyde this year?
He will then say he beats "snake oil" Kiffin.
I'll be pissed if Auburn grabs both of our remaining running back prospects. They already nabbed one...
According to Tremendous, Green will be spending 3 days in Ann Arbor now. His Friday was supposed to be spent in Columbus, but now it will be spent in the MUCH nicer Ann Arbor. That bodes well for us, I think.
Wow, that's great news. I know he wants to meet Hoke and this gives him ample time to get a feel for the rest of the coaching staff.
Any idea if his parents are joining him? That would be huge. How's the weather going to be?
Mid 80s all weekend, isolated storms Friday, all sun apart from those storms. Should be perfect BBQ weather.
If ever there was a time to impress a guy from the south this would be the summer to do it considering michigan has had some of the hottest temps in the country this year. Miserable for me driving in a shirt and tie with broken ac but these kids seem to like it.
Been there. It sucks. And mine is faltering.
Per an interview on Tremendous Green will be in Michigan Friday and will be spending 3 days in Ann Arbor. This could be the big weekend the coaches needed to land him.
Yep, if we don't emerge this weekend as a leader with Green saying all kinds of wonderful things about Michigan and Hoke, then our chances are slim and none.
This is it. We have our chance at the plate this weekend and need a HR.
Michigan has a "very legitimate chance" with Green. He also said that it was possible that something could happen at the BBQ--this wasn't in direct reference to Green, but Green certainly seems like the most likely recruit for him to be referring to.
So just one more piece of evidence that our chances here may be better than expected, even if there's still a ton of competition.
David Dawson last week told us to buckle up, and then he said wait a few weeks. Come bbq time, it will be two weeks. Green and Dawson are good buds. TomVH says something could happen at the bbq. Are the stars aligned?
If not, Dawson still owes us a commit.
If anything, it'll probably be the first verbal commits for the class of 2014.
Was never a committable offer anyway.
It's right on par with the GIF of Denard and Roundtree at the basketball game for me.
I go into every HELLO post knowing those 2 things will be there, and they're still awesome.
UM needs two quality RBs in this class. Shallman is a FB all the way, no matter what he thinks. Let Smith and Green duke it out for PT.
Shallman may not be a 25 carry-per-game back, but tell me you wouldn't want him in at the goal line, or up 10 with 8 minutes to go.
If you watched Jehuu Caulcrick at Michigan State, that's how I envision Shallman.
Jehuu Caulcrick was a bowling ball!
His name brings back bad memories.
Michigan beat him every time he lined up across the field (and his redshirt year, too, for good measure).
I made the same comparison to Caulcrick with a friend the other day. I would not be disappointed at all if that turned out to be the case. He would be a great asset to the offense.
Shallman = Aaron Shea
But that's the extent of the possible similarity between him and Caulcrick. Shallman is listed as 6-3 and 245, and in his videos I've watched he runs pretty upright and looks somewhat slow-footed for a RB. Running upright at that height is frequently not a good thing at the goal line. Caulcrick was 6-0/255, and ran with a lot of body lean and had pretty quick feet for a guy that size. I still think Shallman might be better suited to play TE, especially if he gets any taller.
Hillis, Hillis is Shallman!
someone's name on it since my Tim Couch jersey.......never again.
on the bright side - if Shallman happens to have a breakout year, we don't have to worry about the Madden curse. Hurray!
Reminds me of Bane from the Dark Knight Rises right there.
I was thinking role more than style.
Does it matter what the coaches think?
I would not want to run behind that line !
Was trolling ElevenWarriors today...the general consensus was that although Green just got back from a visit to SEC country, that OSU was clearly the leader for him...funny houw things change in a few hours.
They think they're the leader for any player that lives in Ohio or expresses any interest in OSU. ElevenWarriors still disagrees with Galileo...the sun revolves around Columbus, OH.
But that's not an unreasonable conclusion for fans at 11W to draw, considering that they are the dominate program in the state. We often assume the same about kids who grew up in Michigan.
I'm on there all day and the general consensus is that we've always been in it, but that he's been playing the recruiting game too much to be sure. The one thing people did hang on as a good sign was that he told an 11W writer that he was trying to get looks for his teammates. No matter what, though, the kid grew up an OSU fan while idolizing Eddie George, so I'm sure he was bummed.
Any word on why Ohio is going in a different direction? I'm always curious when a kid is a consensus 4 star/5 star and has interest in the school. First thought was his shortcoming as a pass catcher out of the backfield, which Urban puts quite a bit of stock in...
A lot of it has to do with space and current depth chart. Similar to when you guys told Anzalone you were full at LB. We have a number of power backs on the roster already and only about 4-5 spaces left in the class at most. We still are targeting 1-2 LBs, 1-2 WRs, OT, and probably a safety (hopefully Vonn Bell). A lot of Buckeye fans are hoping we wrap up with some combo of the following:
S Vonn Bell
OT Dennis Finley
LB Mike Mitchell
LB/DE Tyquan Lewis
WR James Quick
WR Shelton Gibson
WR Devon Allen
(I'm not going to throw Foster in here as I just don't think it's happening)
ATH Chris Worley
There are a couple other WRs that I think may end up being in, but the three I listed are the most talked about. A lot of fans are hoping that if OT Dorian Johnson decommits from PSU, we'll get a shot at him. With all of these players still on the board, there just isn't a need or spot for Green.
Are you sure Urban isn't saving the rest of those slots for DE recruits?
Thanks for the info, BTW.
As a side note, but more than worth mentioning, Derrick Green's parents will be with him in Ann Arbor this weekend as well.
Honestly, I'm very omptimistic that we could see a commit. He's kept up in his top group for so long despite never actually meeting Hoke that there is some very serious interest. Factor in the extended visit with Hoke, the great atmosphere, and the fact that his parents are coming too, and the stars might be aligning on this one.
Any ideas on why OSU decided to go in a different direction? Seems pretty odd to have the kid come to camp and then suddenly decide he's not for them.
Ezekiel Elliott (RB) will be OSU's highest rated offensive player by NSD. Between that and having Rod Smith (RS Soph), Dunn, and Ball on the roster running back probably has more depth than any unit other than the defensive line.
This is also where the scholarship reductions affect their recruiting. Even down three scholarships, they don't have space to take a "luxury" like Green when they already have Elliot in this class and the backs in the classes ahead of him.
There are a few redshirt juniors again that will not be back next year. This pushes the number of openings to 23. Attrition of 1-2 is very likely between now and signing day. I still feel that Michigan will end up with 24 recruits in this class, but will probably have openings for 25 (they'll likely bank one for next year IMO).
That's not to saying that this class will simply be finalized, as much as I hope not, as it gets closer to signing day some kids make very rash decisions and switch. We'll see how it all ends up this year, but my prediction is 24
Mike Jones is the only unrenewed fifth guy. Who else were you counting?
Hey are we allowed to cut players like Alabama? This would really help making some room for these #1 recruits. Any Alabama fans that read this, feel free to offer some insight.
Which I hope we are not taking part in.
Also, 4 year scholarships indicate the answer to your question is no
/late night sarcasm...rib rubbing of bama
No. Just No. THIS IS MICHIGAN FERGODSAKES!!!
Let him come eat some BBQ I hope texas style and see what he missed out on,
Nobody has signed a LOI and the likelihood of every verbal staying committed until NSD is not likely. Pair that with coach Hoke knowing more than us when it comes to possible attrition I wouldn't get too worried about over signing.
Like this quote from Green;
“I think they had one scholarship left or something like that and they took a receiver (Taivon Jacobs) instead of waiting on me and not getting me.”
Maybe the Buckeyes pulling his offer rubs him the wrong way a bit, he wants to show them they were wrong, and Michigan moves up his board.
We are expected to take 4-5 more. And with you guys having only 20-21 current openings, but possibly 25 in a class, I wouldn't say OSU has done anything different with roster "oversigning".
The more playmakers in the class the better, and I would like to see another well regarded RB to add to the class.
I'm not overly concerned about the scholarship numbers. It doesn't look like the coaching staff are going way over 85, and there is always attrition (whether through voluntary transfers or for medical reasons). If the offered scholarships would push the team to 95, then I would be nervous and wonder where the space will come from. However, I think it is safe to assume that there will be three to four players that we don't expect to transfer or be forced to quit football because of injury. Also, I wouldn't be surprised if one of the current commits wants to go elsewhere by LOI day. They're 17-18 year olds after all.
Pretty sure nobodys "losing patience". Its July dude
Hoke is going to close the deal this weekend. 3 days in ann arbor and not commiting, that would be a negative.
The OSU spin on this is that they don't need him and it shows how good they are recruiting by turning down the number 1 RB in the nation. They call it the new OSU under Meyer.
How is it spin when we turned him away? Was it spin when Hoke turned Anzalone away?
I don't give a shit about spin, but I think it's possible Meyer gave Green an ultimatum, similar to what he did with Brionte Dunn, and Meyer was rebuffed, leading OSU into another direction. Just the nature of recruiting,
So my first thought was that urban stopped recruiting him because he thought Michigan was out of spots after the recent commitment and the need at WR. Maybe that is a bit cynical, but given his past reputation I would not doubt it.
I am in the minority but I will continue to prefer deveon smith to green. we have a RB. we'll get 1 or 2 more in 2014. focus elswhere.
Green has a huge frame, he's a big RB at the high school level as is one of those talents that could immediately get playing time or even start on a worse team. I take Green any day compared to smith, though smith is good green IMO is better
Not "as" I meant "he* is"
Deveon Smith looks like a much better runner to me as well. Derrick Green doesn't do much in the way of running over/breaking through tacklers for a 230 lb. high school kid. He just kind of runs until some form of an obstacle appears in his way and that concludes the play. I'd rather wait and get a shiftier guy in the coming years. You can get any running back to go as far as their blockers will take them, you need a guy who can make something happen once in a while on top of that.
This one baffled me. Kid seems to want to come to OSU (tho not enough to commit quite yet, which may be the telling tale in itself), grew up an OSU fan, is the #1 RB, we have a spot for him and then we tell him "Thanks, but no thanks" all of the sudden? I mean, we need a lot of offensive talent, but RB we are pretty solid, so that's my only explanation is that Urban wants another WR more than he wants the #1 RB. I wish the kid the best of luck. And if he commits to UofM this weekend, I'm totally claiming it was out of spite. (I'm just kidding there if it wasn't clear).
Is a Moron plain and simple! Good luck as we mop the floor with you guys over the next 7 years the RIGHT way
Let's hypothetically say that Green commits to us, where does this leave Shallman and Smith? Smith is similar as a player to Green, just not as good according to the recruiting sites. Shallman is being brought in as a bruiser, but Green is supposed to be able to do that too. Shallman can play Dline (where I think he ends up) or fullback, but Smith would get buried behind Green.
And actually find out who the better player is, rather than leaving it up to some recruiting service guys to tell them who's better.
And right now wouldn't you love to have a proven talent behind Fitz?