First Dantonio complains about Meyer stealing Pittman and now they are upset over OSU not including shifts and motions in tape exchange.
First Dantonio complains about Meyer stealing Pittman and now they are upset over OSU not including shifts and motions in tape exchange.
Sour grape whiners.
Me think's that may make an appearance in TWIS.
If these teams started hating each other even a fraction of how badly both hate Michigan, it would be great. Both teams and their fans obviously have enough hatred to go around; let them direct some of it toward each other.
Wait, the coaches do tape exchanges?
And then they're surprised that they try and trick them?
Tape the coaches use to prepare is typically shot from the end zone angle and it's a wide shot to see the entire field. It's completely different from what you would see on tv.
Slightly different persepctive from the press box than a seat in the stadium.
that they did the reasonable thing and just taped the game off television and watched it, like the rest of us.
Dantonio is 1-4 against OSU so it HASN'T developed into a rivalry really.
And the 1 of the 1-4 was with the Bauserman experiment. Yeesh.
I wouldn't say the record in recent games between two teams determines whether a matchup is turning into a rivalry or not. It's all about the budding history of higher than usual passion exhibited before, during and after the game that's caused by the disdain and hesistant respect the teams have for each other, among other things.
With the logic you're putting forward, does that mean our rivalries with OSU, MSU and ND are becoming less of a rivalry because they've been more one-sided recently? Now I know our rivalries I mentioned are in a whole other class of rivalry than whatever OSU/MSU may be, but the fact of the matter is, IMHO, the record means very little in matters like this.
I thought there wasn't really a rivalry between MSU and Michigan. Or at least not in Michigan fans' minds.
Or tried to do there.
Historically, there was never a true rivalry with the Little Brother and the numbers bear this out easily. For example, your rival would win about half the time, would win championships, would compete nationally for championships, would be at your level in the public conciousness.
Now, Sparty has, to their credit, won 4 times in a row, but if you take the long view it's not truly a rivalry (not in the way that Ohio is Michigan's rival). Sparty doesn't win football championshis, is not any sort of national factor, is not at Michigan's level in the public conciousness. It is what it is.
Little brother can have a brief period of success but given recruiting trending with Michigan/Ohio/ND in the midwest, Hoke manball in Michigan and the departure of K. Cousins things will revert sooner than later and the new boss...same as the old one.
Rivarly speaks to some level of equal stature...Sparty will never achieve that.
I dunno. I think the Michigan fan as described by UW exists more in the heads of Sparties looking for a reason to hate, than in real life. Not totally, but more so. No, they're not the same as Ohio, but then, rivalries aren't necessarily defined by that. I don't have any problem saying I want to beat the hell out of them every year; it's not like Sparty is Illinois.
You go walk in a park once a year...you step in some dog crap...you wipe it off. Is the dog crap your rival? or is it just an annual inconvenience that some years is harder to wipe off than others?
Then we should exchage practice tapes of Gardner throwing the ball...
The tapes we give other teams are free of interceptions.
We cut half our plays out of the tape?
What the fuck does Dantonio think is occurring on the field on Saturday afternoons? Tea and crumpets? Seminars on your 401-K? Teamwork retreats where you fall backwards and expect the other people to catch you? Is he expecting that Meyer will tell him ahead of time what plays he's going to run, and that he'll get a reach-around from Urban in the bargain?
That might be one of the most pathetic, ridiculous whines I've ever heard from a losing coach. It's goddamn football, not cooperative kickball at the local Bhuddhist pre-school.
I have more respect for John L. Smith than Dantonio.
congratulations, you have won today's daily internets.
It might surprise you, FWIW, that Dantonio wasn't the one complaining... I think the media asked him but he wouldn't comment.
So the whole "losing coach" and "what does he think is happening" might be premature. Sure, he is a strict guy and might complain about things but I think you went off on the wrong guy here.
I just ventured over to RCMB (for some reason known only to the version of me that existed five minutes ago). Honestly, what a bunch of whiny, pathetic assholes. It's not just their coach.
Really nice showing from them today. From the "asshole" chant during GameDay to the "he's a pussy" chant while Miller was injured on the field to possibly fielding a just-concussed player to the coaches turning around right after a loss and complaining about this stuff.
More than anything that ever happens on the field, this is what makes them Sparty.
There are some reasonable folks over there but they are drowned out by everyone else saying f*ck off. For some reason, that statement is the national pasttime over there.
The problem with the MLive argument is that it ignores that MGoBlog is the most popular forum for discussing Michigan while RCMB is the most popular forum for discussing MSU. It's true that the MLive crowd sucks and the crowd at The Only Colors is better than the RCMB crowd. MLive and RCMB are where the outliers go, though. Your average internet-active Michigan fan is here on MGoBlog. Your average internet-active MSU fan is on the RCMB.
RCMB captures the essence of that fan base.
Descartes' account of true and immutable essences is soooo fun to misrepresent as Triangle, therefore God. Read some Kierkegaard instead, I feel like it fits the present state of the Big Ten better.
Haha, wasn't even thinking about "The Sickness Unto Death," though it is perhaps fitting in that it deals with despair. Was thinking more along the lines of SK's views on the absurd. It definitely requires a suspension reason to understand Illinois' loss to Louisiana Tech.
Are you divine by the Father, or are you a mortal man?
If every fanbase has a Jesus, is this a fusion of the death and resurrection model with multiplicity of universes and periodic creation and recreation, as in the universe and gods flickering in and out of existence hundreds of thousands of times?
Was Nebraska's comeback win over freshman Braxton Miller and Joe Bausermann, their first game against Ohio in conference, the work of a Nebraska Jesus?
Thanks for your insight.
Only thing makes that classier would be garbage blowing around the field.
OSU crowds can be assholes, but I've never heard them cheering about a player getting hurt. Maybe one or two dumbasses in the student section, but not in that sort of organized fashion.
Let them enjoy themselves and get acquainted, because they're gonna be each other's rivals when Michigan moves to the Big 12 along with nebraska, wisconsin and minnesota in 2017.
Why would you want us in the Big 12? And you want the Game to be stopped?
I can only hope you are not sober.
I want to see new teams. I wanna see Michigan develop rivalries with texas, oklahoma, okie state.
We could adopt texas a&m's "saw varsitys horns off". Of course we'd have to get the down in front to get up and sway.
Hullabullo caneck caneck.
THINK ABOUT IT MAN!!!
I need more to drink.
That's a really bad idea.
I wish those creatures to the northwest would just go away. They don't deserve to cross into Washtenaw County with the kind of conduct they displayed today.
Second rate school, second rate athletics, second class citizens.
You can stop posting now.
MGoProTip: It's OK not to have an opinion on absolutely everything/post in every thread/start five threads a day. We know you're a fan, but in almost all situations, less is more.
WTF? This isn't high school...
Send a scout, TiVo, internet...
Tape that Internet, tv would provide. Not the same at all
but tv would show any shifts or motions and they could just piece together that with the film they recieved
The whole play i.e. coverage, routes, etc. that TV don't show you. You don't hide stuff from game tape. Urban Meyer is a scumbag
It wasn't Ohio's first game...just exchange with another team and get all of the information you need.
It's not that fucking hard. Quit bashing Meyer like he actually did something worth whining about.
is going to look like weak willies for complaining. Advantage Buckeyes.
Leave it to Sparty to always be whining and bitching about something. Just like a little brother.
Too bad they won't be playing each other again until 2015.
Isn't the point of having assistants, coordinators and a half time provide you the assets to adjust to motions and shifts???
After this thread, I'm drinking.
You have got to be kidding me.
MSU OL Allen (#66) went for the ole eye gouge tonight. Classy.
Sparty gonna spart.
Surprise = 0
But in my 8 years of playing O-line, I at least learned 2 things: Lamar Woodley is not human, and there is an attempted eye gouge (or some sort of nefarious hands to the face action) between d and o lineman almost every other play. Unfortunately, if you wanted to spend an entire game looking for it, I'm sure you catch our lineman (most especially Lewan...) doing that a handful of times.
True, but after all the crap they pulled last year, and (going back to his days at Ohio) after Robert Reynolds choked the Wisconsin QB and their defenders repeatedly tried to roll Chris Perry's ankle after the play . . . it seems clear that Dantonio, at best, is willing to look the other way regarding dirty play.
Could someone explain the whole tape exchange for me? Why would teams do this? I am confused.
It's the whole "full 22" tape, where you can see the WHOLE field and all the pass routes etc that are usually off the screen of the normal TV tape.
The WVU-Baylor game was like watching a baseball game with no strikeouts and a bunch of errors. I like some sound defense at least a few times a game.
All Texas needs to do is contain WV. I'm pretty sure they can do that. I'm not at all sure that WV can do the same.
UT 49, WV 35.
Neither team would win more than 5 games in the SEC. Crap teams in a crap conference.
They would be undefeated in B1G because they can score unlike most B1G team. B1G is fucking terrible
look like Tom Brady and Peyton Manning combined. They suck and suck hard.
The Zooker beat RGIII and Baylor 38-14 just two years ago.
B1G would get dominated by Big 12 team. I am quite certain that WVU would win B1G with ease. No offense in B1G can score more than 21 pts, much less keep up with WVU especially when Halgorsen is a offensive genius
without a clue. The mere fact that they can't play defense would keep Big Ten teams in the game. All offense. no defense is no way to dominate.
Is it just me or does Urban Meyer look like Josef Mengele? I mean, nit really, yknow, just sayin, though
I can see why he's upset considering OSU games are never on tv and he would never have had a chance to see those shifts without getting them from OSU itself.
I've seen every OSU game this year, and I live in Florida. OSU is always on TV, they aren't Minnesota
This is actually exactly the sort of thing that is worthy of complaining about, rather than recruiting things and stuff like that. OSU had more tape available to them than MSU did, giving OSU an advantage. We would be displeased if the same thing happened to us. Dantonio isn't whining, he's just informing the league office of the discrepancy.
At the same time, how do we know that MSU hasn't done this exact same things to other teams and they just haven't publically complained about it. I dunno, if you're relying on the other team to supply information for your gameplanning, shouldn't you expect this kind of thing?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that tape sharing was mandatory in the Big Ten and therefore the standard means by which coaches gameplan. Hence MSU contacting the league office (which I'm assuming wouldn't happen if this were simply a gentlemen's agreement type complaint).
You could very well be correct. I had no idea they did tape sharing in the first place. Also, couldn't they tell if it was edited?
Exchange tapes all the time. It is a common practice for all conferences and leagues.
You write exceptionally well for an owl.
Dantonio should try coaching Sarcastoball instead.
Someone watched their South Park...
Maybe I'm missing something, but don't teams often save certain plays/formations for important games?
if you're "practicing" things only, and haven't pulled it out for a game, then it's something you're holding back and there wouldn't be any disclosure of it, but that's different than GAME footage. If you've used it in a game and you've agreed to provide an opponent with your footage of that game, you can't edit out certain things. It's an all or nothing deal... and it's dumb to even try. GA's will review the TV footage too, along with the tape the oppenent sends. They'll notice when they're missing things.
OK, makes sense. Why didn't he bring this up before, though? Why mention it after the fact?
who knows... he may have said something to OSU bofore hand and nothing happened, they may have some explanation, maybe it's only just now making it's way to the press. A coach is not going to hold a press conference BEFORE the game to announce that the oppenent is playing fast and loose with game tape, but after the game, and after a loss, sure, he'll mention it then... plus, that's kind of Dantonio's style. "I'm not sayin', I'm just sayin'." Hoke probably would let it go and deal with it coach to coach with no mention of it to the press. Dantonio, as we know, has "his own way" of dealing with things.
and are only saying something now since they lost. It's so Dantonio/Sparty douchey.
They did not lose because of this game tape, and complaining of such a thing after a loss makes you look like a baby.
Thanks for the clarification. Still surprised, then, that the coaches wouldn't have noticed the lack of footage for those shifts beforehand.
It sounds like they already don't trust it. Which, obviously.
Maybe we should be thanking Dantonio, since I have a feeling that our OSU film will have all of the shifts and motion on there this year.
Here's the deal... every team records all of their games from the end zone and press box,high, wide, whole field views. They then edit every play together so that you see each play twice, once from each angle. The general understanding is that a week or so ahead of time the opponents will swap specific, COMPLETE game footage with each other. You can negotiate it a bit too, they might agree to swap just the last game, or maybe the last three games, the whole season, etc...
This really is kind of a big deal; you're not supposed to mess around with these tapes. The product on the field improves tremendously with scouting, for both teams, but you'll have a real problem if teams start messing with their footage to gain an advantage. It will lead to never being able to trust what you're getting and retaliation stuff ("oh, well they didn't give us shifts and motions last year, so we're not going to show them any of our zone blitz schemes this year!" "well then we're not giving you ANY tape!" "well then we'll get tape of you from Penn State!" "if Penn State gives you our tape we won't exchange tape with them!" on and on) which is, frankly bad for the on-field product. This is something MSU can and SHOULD complain about to the league, IF it actually happened.
It's a dog eat dog world. We're all wearing bacon underwear.
The main point, of course, is that one coach or the other is being a gigantic doucheturd, so it's actually pretty awesome watching them snip at each other.
We don't live in the stone age anymore. If he wanted unedited game tape, he could have recorded it on his DVR.
If you read the UFR's you know that Brian makes this complaint all the time, the networks are terrible at giving you the whole picture. They zoom up too close, come back from commercial break too late, follow the running back when the quarter back kept the ball... all kinds of things. The network feeds are terrible for breaking down an opponent. These double view wide angles are ideal. I wish Brian could get his hands on these tapes, a whole new UFR world would open up to us. He'd be able to evaluate our corner's on run plays, see how good our receivers block on the opposite side of the play, all kinds of things. DVRing the ABC broadcast is worth less than half of the game footage you swap with your opponent. That's why virtually every team gives it and gets it very openly and freely.
you have to buy it through nfl.com but its out there now. maybe college football will do something similar in the future, maybe release it after the season? I doubt it but we can dream can't we
I have no idea how tape exchanges, but there is no reason a coaching staff should give away the tricks they use to move the ball to the defense. Did Dantonio send UM all of the line-jumping and defensive fronts from last year? Sure seemed like UM bamboozled Nebraska last year, and part of it was because they debuted new wrinkles. It's called football; quit your complaining and produce an offense that can move the ball AT ALL against above-average defenses first.
You either participate in an understood, equal game tape swap or you don't. It's that simple. Virtually every team willingly swaps tape, and the various leagues encourage it because football is a much more entertaining game when you've got good scouting; and nothing beats the team's own GAME tapes. You're not giving them your PRACTICE tapes, just your GAME tapes.
If OSU unveiled a new wrinkle today against MSU that was not in any of the games they agreed to swap, then yes, there is no complaint there. But you can't deliberately edit out plays/sequences from the GAME tapes that you agreed to share. If MSU gave them two views of every play of every game they've played so far this year while OSU deliberately edited out all of their zone reads, or whatever, that's an issue. Game tape swaping is important but it works on an honor system, obvsly, if that starts to erode on a large scale the entertainment value of the games erode with it.
I don't understand why people are having such a hard time with this. If a team doesn't want to share game tape that's their perrogative (it happens only rarely though, pretty much every coach agrees that full disclosure from both sides is better than no disclosure from either) but once you agree on an exchange you can't mess with shit.. well, you "can" but there may be a price to pay if you get caught... it would be akin to tapping into the other teams head phones and listening in on their playcalls. If you get away with it fine, but if you get caught...
It sounds like you describe it. A half an hour ago ESPN put up an article -
MSU defensive coordinator Pat Narduzzi confirmed to the Free Press that MSU contacted the Big Ten and said Ohio State cut off pre-snap motions and shifts before plays on film of its four games before today's 17-16 OSU win at Spartan Stadium.
Read the whole article here -
I don't disagree. At the time of posting, I hadn't read the whole thread thoroughly and missed your earlier post.
All that said, surprised that MSU didn't bring this up earlier if they had noticed it.
Managers meeting in a parking lot in a town halfway between schools, making sure the other has "the goods."
And they have to take circuitous routes to make sure no one is following them.
SEC speeeed is just cutting out frames
thread and I think you have a great insight in to this situation. I understand the idea behind the tape exchange, and I understand the idea behind the "honor system" involved. I find this situation very ironic, however, as there are also "gentlemen's agreements/honor system" issues with:
-Faking injuries (MSU vs Iowa last year)
-Not trying to intentionally hurt players (MSU vs us, yesterday's eye gouge, etc, etc)
-Respecting your opponent before, during and after the game (too many examples to try to list)
It's funny that you have a program willing to do so many things to gain a competitive advantage by bending/breaking written and unwritten rules, but cries foul when an opponent tries to do the same thing.
No honor among theives and cheaters apparently.
Im awfully surprised schools don't seek outside sources for tape. I mean... all of Ohio's games have been televised on the cable TV haven't they?
Did you read any comments on this thread?
have milk with your dinner?
I didn't have milk for dinner, but I did just have a small glass before bedtime. What a wonderful treat.
In what world is milk a treat?
When it's chocolate.
(sorry couldn't help it)
To indulge myself with some milk, only to find your rude comment about milk. I'm udderly flabbergasted.
I like to stay abreast of all comments about milk.
What the hell, man? Whether or not you're kidding, that is something you just don't say.
Dying of Heart Ache? Is his wife gonna leave him or something if he doesn't win?
So is MSU saying they would never edit game tape. All of their personal fouls including head twisting, face punching and the video above of today's eye gouging are freely shared with future opponents?
Next question, Marky.
If they had brought this up before they lost like earlier in the week they wouldn't look like spoil sports. Knowing OSU's snap counts isn't going to Maxwell throw less hard or make those receivers catch better.
As if Penn State wasnt enough, the eye gouging incident and Tapegate plastered all over the national news is just another reason the rest of the country thinks the B1G is a joke..... Embarrassing.
Poor Markey will cry about anything if it keeps him relevant for another 5 minutes.
Oh, and don't boo in sparty stadium. It hurts his widdle feelings.
Let's not cast stones now...
I caught Urban Meyer's interview with BTN postgame - he is a wierd dude and looks like he pops some xanax before. I really don't think he'll be at Ohio for more than 3 seasons.
Kind of like a much more successful John L. Smith?
With shifts and motions removed from the tape, I would imagine that Ohio wanted to test Pat Narduzzi's much-hyped defense for teams that think with portals. It would be interesting, from a planning standpoint, if the tape was indeed several hours of jump cuts a la "Bewitched" or "I Dream Of Jeannie". As Hollis and Smith have settled the matter per the ESPN article posted in this thread, I suppose we will never know now. Shame really.
They'll need to stop putting state games on tv unless its after nine pm soon. Classy chants by the drunkards. Seriously , you couldn't pay me to go into that little shit hole stadium.
The A-Hole chant to Corso for the Gameday pick, and the "He's a pussy" chant when Miller was hit late out of bounds and was shaken up were classic MSU. They're just pissed that their offense is so inept that no one thinks they're any good. Stay classy, Sparty.
If MSU would have won 17-16 this wouldnt have been an issue. MD is such a whiny bitch. I hope we beat the shit out of them this year.
I think Urban is showing his lack of class already. Did anyone notice after the game? The team ran over to their fan section and seemed to stay there forever, singing, dancing, etc. Urban even joined in. I would be curious how long they actually stayed.
I think it's perfectly fine to acknowledge your crowd on away turf, but what OSU did was a bit over the top, imo. It's not your home field.
Acknowledge your fans then get off the damn field.
with what OSU did after the game. After we beat OSU, we did the "bomb" thing and then ran straight to the students section...yeah, I know we were the home team, but to me it doesn't matter, both moves could be questioned as "over the top."
After any game, home or away, win or lose, the players go over and sing the alma mater with TBDITL. Is that really the first time you noticed it?
I don't think they do it after road losses. They did not after the Game last year, anyway. (They did after they won two years previously.)
Were students rushing the field after the Game? That might explain why they didn't.
I agree with the post that we don't do it when the winning team rushes the field. However when we lost to purdue, we stuck around and sung Carmen Ohio.
1. Narduzzi was misquoted. OSU DID edit their tape to hide their motions. MSU received OSU's tape early in the week and they noticed that they couldn't see any motions, then asked for tape from CAL/UCF/etc. and saw that it was completely different. Hollis and OSU's AD talked and THREATENED to file a complaint, because it is a B1G rule that teams have to exchange tapes, and OSU gave them proper tape on thursday, just 2 days before gameday. No complaint was officially filed
2. The reason it didn't come out before this week is because the players and coaches were all cut off from the media this week. Dantonio was the only one allowed to talk to the media per his rules, and that was only for the Tuesday coaches press conference that he has to do.
I was driving back from Champaign to Cincinnati Ohio ( where I live in the UM witness protection program for UM grads) and was listening to the OSU-msu game on the radio. I have never felt more conflicted. Who do I dislike the most? No win situation. Then I get home to Darcy the Wisconsin-Nebraska game. What's up with those unis??? the standard Wisconsin uni has a pretty cool classic look. What is the point. And Nebraska? They were trying out their new bad-ass black outfits. Can't We just see some football?
I disagree with these two teams being rivals. With OSU winning 7 of the last 8 and having the upper hand this is still a one sided battle. Ohio State news rival is more likely Wisconsin. Since the late 90's they have been a thorn in our foot.