Borges played turtle after realizing that Denard in the backfield wasn't going to pick up and blitzes and Devin was going to get killed before Denard could flair out to catch a screen. Now, i'd have liked that very real possibility to be seen in theory or practice and make sure that V. Smith was in on a lot of those plays to balance the issue with Denard.
OSU Freshman DE's
The only position groups on the field where I felt UM had equal or better talent than Ohio was the LBs, QBs, and specialists (Hyde was better than any of our tailbacks, unless you count Denard as a tailback). Mostly though, Ohio was way better than Michigan in the trenches. Ohio was able to run the ball on us consistently, both inside and outside, and UM couldn't do the same to them.
I think you're thoroughly mistaken on the talent, but I agree with you that our coaching job was deficient on offense.
I watched them play all season and they struggled with a lot of mediocre offenses. Yesterday
Some teams can improve as the year goes along.
You know, I think that's what is so frustrating. OSU always seems to step up during The Game even if they haven't all year, and we seem to shrink. Is it coaching? Talent? Some combination? I don't know, but it's been that way for ten years.
I don't know how much they really "stepped up" yesterday. They were playing at home against an 8-3 team starting its backup QB and backup RB. They came into the game averaging 38 ppg. They received five turnovers and managed only 26 points. Their red zone offense was worse than it had been all season: their placekicker had attempted six field goals all year going into the game and then attempted five yesterday. Meanwhile, their defense gave up TDs of 75 and 67 yards.
Neither team rose to the occasion yesterday. The game was not well-played or well-coached on either side. Unfortunately, the talent level is still sufficiently uneven that a crappy OSU performance will generally beat a crappy U-M performance.
and it will be an exciting thing to watch their development. However, those who are automatically assuming that their actual in-game performance will be better right off the bat than departing seniors are engaging in some extremely rosy optimism.
Go watch Taco's highlight film and you will feel better. Then think about Kyle Kalis, Erik Magnuson, et el. Really the only freshmen line-men who made even a slight impact on either side of the ball for us was Pipkins. It seems our coaches prefer to bring the players along more slowly than OSU does. The fact is, both the offensive and defensive lines will get significantly more talented the next few seasons. If football is truly won "in the trenches" we will be set.
You guys keep berrating our O line and they were at a disadvantage all day. tOSU continuously put 8,9 men in the box all day to stop the run. Last I looked, 8,9 is a big advantage over 5. And our play calling kept right on running into that box.
Which is why it is so frustrating that they did not have Gardner and Denard in the game together running plays. It completely tipped pretty much everyone but Stevie Wonder on what was going to be happening.
It took Gardner out of synch with his receivers, made the entire offense predictable, and kept putting pressure on Gardner to come back in on 3rd and long which is not good for any QB, let alone one who was not in total synch with the offense.
I also question if there is a system in place to identify the players being used with the called plays as you keep hearing about the expectation is for the position, and in a few cases you have to scratch your head on why a running back was in the game for a certain play.
Given that there was some success going outside or off tackle, i would have expected to see some efforts with Justice Hays or Norfleet possibly to use some speed to get there.
It also seems like there was alot of focus on throwing the ball 20+yds on alot of the routes, but not as much focus on short/medium range or exploiting the middle of the defense when they were bringing the house.
That is just putting the players you have into position to be successful.
The non-use of Funchess yesterday borders on the criminal, as was refusing to have Devin and Denard on the field together for the whole game.
noted inability to block (he really would have benefitted from. RS year) was too big a liability against the OSU D-line. And/or the coaches thought his presence was too much of an obvious pass-play indicator.
I expect big(ger) things from him next season after a full year of practice and weight training.
Our 5 OL couldn't block their 4 DL, so we need a TE; let's assume that let's them scoop an LB too. Now the WR take their CBs, and we lead block with Smith ... Leaving D & D against 3 guys, usually a safety and two LBs. Denard can't block, so Gardner has to juke someone to get anything, assuming someone even buys a play fake to Denard.
Math sucks. When your OL consistently fails to block, your runs won't go anywhere. Adding two non-blockers to that mix instead of one makes it worse. If anything we should have been throwing the ball more, where the OL is better and we can work the field more.
It was detrimental to Gardner and telegrahped intent; however, this team's problem for two years plus now is the ability of defenses to stack the box and dare the pass. Gardner helps that quite a bit. Unfortunately, Robinson in the backfield doesn't. He's not a blocker because he's never been trained to do it. So you can still blitz Gardner if you're willing to bet that you can get to him before receivers can get open.
Denard being less than 100% and having fairly little time to practice new roles probably limits possibilities like using him more in the slot to stretch defenses before the play begins, motions, pitches, etc. (Though here, i'll say that Borges used the Denard/Devin combo much better against Iowa and i don't understand not doing many of the same things against OSU.)
This is what I was saying during the game. Especially in that formation we ran on third and short a couple times in the second half with Dennard in the backfield with 2 RB, we esentially had 6 guys blocking 8-9 guys. Of course we were stuffed both times. The next drive we went to some kind of jumbo/goal line when our running back options are a 160lb guy or a "power back" with no power.
Urban is trying the same defensive formula from UF days - utilize playmakers at DE and CB to funnel plays to inside hitters at LB and safety. The scheme was problematic this season until Boren started making tackles and the DEs started disrupting plays. He doesn't have the CBs yet, but the 2 in the 2013 class could make it far more potent. Not sure if MLB and S talent exists for the coming years. DE talent on roster already.
Like Bama, the best way to beat this scheme is power running and effective play-action downfield; must force the DEs to play run gaps and the safeties to mind the deep alleys. Turn them from freewheeling playmakers into conservative role players.
But I think we will be fine, especially if we get a new OC.
Poor grammar, rehashed opinion that isn't backed up by anything other than a gut feeling, everyone is already sick of the topic...
Yup, this really needs to be a brand new thread!
I think you mean "classy."
Why can't Ohio State lack talent every once in a while?
They are the only big school (sorry Cincinnati) in a state that is loaded with HS talent. That's it in a nutshell. Pretty much the only time they've ever had less talent than us in the last 50 years was in a brief stretch in the late '80s/early '90s. Earle Bruce must have been a horrible recruiter for that to happen.
....... I mean weak enforcement of ....rules
now. Two biggest rivals are undefeated. UM has made strides o late but are still playing catch up. Mattison can only do so much. UM is not going to shut out elite teams. It's on the O to step up now. I don't see a RB on the roster that is top shelf. UM needs to complete start over st RB. I don't want to Rawls starting.
Yes, they have studs outside...and yes, the OL got manhandled in the middle. Hoke's strategy for recruiting thus becomes obvious - get the talent to take the game to them. For all the complaining about coaching, having OLine talent to match tOSU's defensive talent will be part of what makes watching this game fun again...
Great point, and we all have to be patient since recruiting and development take time. Little being said about freshman OL development behind the scenes, but a lot of noise that our DL could be even better next couple years. We got something, got to take this year for what it's worth and hope for the best. We got a touch bowl game coming up though, wow! USC(ntusc) aTm, Florida or Georgia. Yikes!
They had more talent on the field, we had better coaching(well, defensively anyway). Here's the real reason yesterday's game is so frustrating: our less talented but well coached defense(the strength of our team) handily beat their supposed strength, the Meyer coached no.1 offense in the B1G. We just couldn't keep our critical weaknesses(interior Oline, Toussaint out, inexperience at QB) from sending The Game down the Toilet.
Our defense and our special teams clearly outplayed their counterparts. But with the offense in full sabotage mode, no defense was going to win the game for us in that situation. If the offense had just a sub-par game or even a bad game instead of the I'm-making-sure-we-don't-win-this-game abomination in the second half, we should have won.
You know when you accidentally cut yourself, the blood is gushing out and you realize how deep the cut is? You just know it's going to leave a scar for a long, long time. A day after the cut, I can't stop staring at it.
I think it's incorrect to say your defense "clearly" outplayed our defense. Yes, you stood up against some bad field position, but OSU yielded 60 yards in the second half and four first downs, while forcing essentially four turnovers. That's pretty solid.
Am I the only one who thinks our defense did not play well in the first half?
that means they wont get Hand next year.
R u freakin serious!!!!!!! somebody needs to tell D. Brandon to higher a OC that understands how to design plays for two Lamborghinis, and not two Plymouth Horizons.
Well, you clearly seem smarter than Brandon, so maybe you should apply for his job.
I moderated this to funny, but that's probably an abuse of power.
How do you higher an OC.