Opponents Adjustments to Tate
The last couple of games have reminded me of a past situation, Big Ben with the Steelers his rookie year. The book on beating a rookie QB in the NFL is to put pressure on him, because they aren't prepared to handle it. But it turned out, Big Ben loved all the pressure, he wasn't scared of it, and all it did was leave less people in coverage. His numbers went down towards the end of the year and the playoffs when teams started figuring out that it was harder for him, as a rookie, to read all those men in coverage and make the right play.
My point is this, the last two games the opposing defenses have seemed to make a similar adjustment. Tate appears to be at his most dangerous when the play breaks down. When he scrambles around, finds an open man on a broken route, and hits him for a big pass (or run). EMU and IU seemed to be less aggressive in the way they came after Tate, and instead waited for him to break the pocket at which point they came after him and forced him into some poor decisions.
For the record, I love Tate. I think it is amazing what he has done and can't wait to see how he progresses during his career. The sky is the limit. But at the end of the day, he is still a freshman, an advanced one yes, but a freshman. That being said, he will struggle at times with reading coverages and making the right throws in more traditional passing situations. I just hope that the coaching staff sees the adjustments, realizes that Tate is great in the face of pressure, but really coach him up on what to do with the ball in those other situations, as IMO, that is his biggest weakness right now.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:52 PM ^
I still think the only way to shut down Tate is to get the pressure on him. That's how his one INT (other than the Mathews flub) was forced. They got to him. Like Big Ben, he sometimes hangs onto the ball when he should throw it away. And when he waits too long to get rid of it, it results in INT and intentional grounding.
He'll grow out of that. Probably even by the end of this season. So I'm not worried. But gosh . . . give Tate time to sit in the pocket, and I think he'll pick you apart.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:48 PM ^
Other teams will also most likely learn from Indiana's defensive mistakes and adjust their defense to account for Tate's ability to fly.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
Yeah, maybe get some of that AAA out there.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:50 PM ^
Football is a game of constant adjustments. Every week, people who do it for their living and life's calling are poring over your game tapes trying to create ways to stop you. RR and Tate are fully aware of this and are proably adjusting to others' adjustments even as we discuss them on this thread.
I am not worried; RR didn't get to be the Godfather of the Spread Option by not being able to adjust.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:51 PM ^
It almost seemed that he didn't trust his protection at times. There was times where he had the protection, but starting moving around/out of the pocket. I think he's actually more comfortable throwing on the run. He needs to be a little more patient in the pocket before breaking outside.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:05 PM ^
One of the main reasons he breaks the pocket so often is to produce more passing lanes. He is 6'1" and the guys in the creating the pocket are most often 4-5 inches taller than him with their hands in the air. I don't think that he isn't comfortable in the pocket, he just can't see through it.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:29 PM ^
the NFL obviously thinks it's a big deal. All else equal, what's the difference in performance between 6'0'' and 6'7''? My guess: if it matters, you'd see more INTs and lower completion percentage.
September 28th, 2009 at 2:56 PM ^
On Forcier's website there is a picture of him standing next to Drew Brees and the two appear to be the same height. It doesn't seem to be a huge deal for Brees.
September 28th, 2009 at 12:59 PM ^
backside DE is trying to sucker Tate into hanging onto the ball the last couple games on the zone read. IU's DE seemed to be pretty good at that.
MSU will bring the house up the middle, like they always do, I'd feel alot better about this game if Molk was in there instead of having 3 guys playing out of position up front. But we should hit a couple long ones vs MSU if we can get Brown and Minor past the first level or beat the blitzes.
Tate's going to have to get rid of the ball quick against MSU.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^
whether or not the DE turns his shoulders down the line, iirc. So I don't think he was deceived so much as he didn't use his keys. Indiana was sending backside corners in run support and getting away with it because Tate didn't read to the bubble. That isn't an easy read, but it shows he's still got some frosh to him.
While I'm rambling, I wish RR ran some shallow cross/mesh routes. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think it's in the playbook. That is a really good play with an easy read for the QB regardless of man/zone. And it tends to get slot ninjas on linebackers in the flat. Indiana ran it twice that I saw and really took advantage of OE/JM in coverage. In fact, I really liked their game plan overall on offense.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:32 PM ^
I don't know if the back-to-back sacks in the 2nd quarter were designed pass plays, but it seems like Tate kept the ball too much this game. Probably an intentional bait by the IU defense, like you said. Their DE Middleton created a lot of havoc.
The offense finally got on track in the 4th when Tate started handing it off more. I think it's interesting to watch the zone read on a game-to-game basis and watch the adjustments as the game goes on. It's been a different thing every week, and this week we saw how a good weakside DE can blow things up.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:04 PM ^
I see where you are coming from but I think what has made Tate great so far is that it's not that simple. Just look at the last TD to Odums or the long TD to Hemmingway against Western. Those were examples Tate sitting back in the pocket and getting lots of time (no pressure) and...bam...perfect strikes. That's the beauty of a guy like Tate (and hopefully soon, Denard): as a defense you have to pick your poison and they can beat you regardless.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^
Good ol' Montarvieous Odums.
September 28th, 2009 at 4:07 PM ^
The two plays you cited are really examples of what I am talking about. They sent extra rushers, there were less men in coverage, and he made the easy read in one on one coverage both times and made an accurate throw. What I am saying is that Indiana sent 4 people most of the game, and almost seemed to be trying to bait him into scrambling, only to be waiting for him. I would just like to see him do a little bit better when it is a simple 4 man rush, sit in the pocket, find the right man. He does it sometimes, but he definitely needs to improve on it.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:07 PM ^
I'm going to keep making this point until I see Calvin make it happen.
Tate is a great scrambler, and he's made wonderful plays in and out of the pocket, BUT, give me some of those texas tech quick hitters (slants, crosses, hitches). the ball needs to get out of there much quicker. as we start to face the better defensive lines in the conference, the longer TF holds the ball, the more likely bad things (sacks, ints, separated shoulders) will happen.
while i like the bubble screens to odoms/grady, etc, what about those 'slip screen' (i think that's correct terminology) plays we used to run w/ Braylon (and as TTU did w/ Crabtree) to great effect? I think Stonum or Hemingway could be great on those... with his apparent KOR speed, he'd eventually break a big one.
Especially on first down, a guy with the accuracy of Tate should be able to consistently get 5-10 yards on quick short passes.
so far, my favorite of their spread passing plays is that PA/Counter waggle-ish pass play to Koger or Elder Grady. that's a great, reliable one.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:16 PM ^
I was never a QB so I am not certain but his height may be problematic in quick plays like that (especially the slants). When you have a qb taking a quick three step drop and trying to throw over the middle you don't have a great degree of spearation between the QB and the line. When the QB is 6'1" that is an issue.
I remember when a lot of people were worried about Tate because of his size and it appears to me that the coaches have had a plan as to how to best utilize him from the start. Look at our production on offense and keep in mind that our qb is 6'1".....It may be by design that you aren't seeing these plays.
Also, I think our offense has looked damn good FWIW.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:28 PM ^
that's a good point. +1. i would definitely agree when you have a QB under center, but since he's out of the gun most of the time, i would think the height might be mitigated a bit by being able to see the throwing lanes better. I would also think that the O-line would have a big part to do with creating throwing lanes and keeping the Dlinemens' hands down.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:23 PM ^
So I agree with you there. And I believe we've seen a few slip screens. You would want to run those when you'd think the weakside linebacker is scraping (a pretty common adjustment which Brian has gone to lengths to illustrate). Iirc, we had one set up off a zone read that Tate just didn't read properly. As to the hitches, I think we've seen a lot of cover 2 this year, which makes those less useful.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:09 PM ^
"I just hope that the coaching staff sees the adjustments, realizes that Tate is great in the face of pressure, but really coach him up on what to do with the ball in those other situations, as IMO, that is his biggest weakness right now"
I really mean no disrespect by this but honestly, if clowns like us see this, than I am pretty certain that the guys UM pays millions to coach see the same things and are a few steps ahead of us.....and our competition too I hope.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:26 PM ^
giving in to beveled guilt if we want to catch up as fans.
September 28th, 2009 at 1:24 PM ^
Opposing DCs should:
1) Duck
2) Cover
September 28th, 2009 at 1:27 PM ^
I haven't seen Tate make too many bad reads...in fact his first int Matthews made a bad read, but Tate made the correct one. I think giving him time just gives him the opportunity to find the open man, whether he has to break the pocket to do it or not. Tate has great downfield vision and honestly I think that not bringing pressure would help him by giving him time to move around and create lanes and opportunities with his arm and his feet.
September 28th, 2009 at 2:33 PM ^
I think we've all seen him make questionable reads. Just not disastrous ones. Generally it's him missing a read on a screen or something, and taking off when he should just get it out to his slot. We don't see him throwing directly at the other teams safeties though. And when the worst you can say about your freshman QB is that he misses some opportunities,that in itself is pretty impressive.
September 28th, 2009 at 3:08 PM ^
IUs DEs are both sack-machines and played very well vs. Michigan...
September 28th, 2009 at 4:43 PM ^
Great points re: Forcier's height and throwing lanes. One thing I've been struck by is how accurate Forcier is rolling out, which, by definition, creates clearer lines of sight. Not only accurate, but thrown with touch, both short and intermediate-to-deep routes. Michigan may use this more as they encounter good defensive lines.
September 28th, 2009 at 5:41 PM ^
Tate's ability to throw on the run is remarkable. As good as Henne was, this was never a strength of his. Same with a lot of our other QBs over the years. It's one of the hardest things to teach a QB and he's already got it down.