Oosterbaan's #47 and Kramer's #87 also being issued this fall

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June 12th, 2012 at 10:28 PM
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M Fanfare
Joined: 08/17/2008
MGoPoints: 1560
Oosterbaan's #47 and Kramer's #87 also being issued this fall

Per Angelique Chengelis on Twitter:

Michigan announces jerseys worn by Oosterbaan (47), Ford (48) and Kramer (87) returning to field with "Football Legend" designation

Edit: Confirmed on MGoBlue.com:

http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/061212aaa.html

Following are the tentative dates for recognizing legend status for Oosterbaan, Ford and Kramer:

  • Bennie Oosterbaan -- Air Force (Sept. 8)
  • Ron Kramer -- Massachusetts (Sept. 15)
  • Gerald Ford -- Illinois (Oct. 13)

Edit 2: via @umichfootball, two quotes from Dave Brandon;

"The Ford, Kramer & Oosterbaan families want to see their family member honored in this way way."

"We have yet to have any discussions with the Wistert or Harmon families."

Hail to the college whose colors we wear,

Hurrah for the Yellow and Blue!

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June 12th, 2012 at 10:30 PM | christ. (Score:-1 Overrated)
June 12th, 2012 at 10:38 PM | (No subject) (Score:5 Normal)
bo_lives
bo_lives's picture
Joined: 04/10/2011
MGoPoints: 394

"That's right. It's an off-tackle play. It's coming right over you. And there's not a thing you can do about it."

June 12th, 2012 at 10:59 PM | Given that we can't retire (Score:5 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4701

Given that we can't retire any more numbers (we can't take any more out of circulation), this is the best option.  Otherwise we've got one policy for guys who played before 1956 (retired numbers) and one for those who played after (no retirements), which is illogical and unfair to the recent guys.

June 13th, 2012 at 6:32 AM | Because the only way to honor (Score:5 Normal)
FreddieMercuryHayes
Joined: 12/29/2010
MGoPoints: 4899

Because the only way to honor great players is to make sure their number is never worn again, and they get a plaque on a wall.

This is a way to keep the memories is those great players alive for the rest of UM's history.

June 13th, 2012 at 10:59 AM | The Families want to see (Score:3 Normal)
Wolvmarine
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Joined: 08/28/2008
MGoPoints: 2428

The Families want to see those numbers on the field.  Its actually a better way to honor past greats because there names will be on the field every season. 

All hail Hoke!

June 12th, 2012 at 10:33 PM | What ever....I'd rather we (Score:5 Normal)
ThadMattasagoblin
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Joined: 08/24/2011
MGoPoints: 2690

What ever....I'd rather we eased into it if we did it to make the moment more special for the players and families of the retired players.

903 wins most in college football

June 12th, 2012 at 10:37 PM | hmmmmmm... (Score:3 Normal)
clarkiefromcanada
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Joined: 11/21/2008
MGoPoints: 13005

I don't hate this if (and only if) the right players are wearing the jerseys. If the families are cool with it then fair enough.

 

If the haters don't hate you then you're doing something wrong. - David Cone

June 12th, 2012 at 10:44 PM | they had to ask the family to un-retire the jerseys (Score:1)
HipsterCat
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Joined: 06/28/2011
MGoPoints: 232

and my completely unfounded guess on this issue is they wouldn't take this many out of retirement if they didn't have some idea who they were going to give them to. This would make 4 "Legends" jerseys which makes me think they would be given to the captains or something like that. perhaps kovacs and demens getting the 47/48 and I'm not sure who would get the 87 maybe roh switches from 88 but i would think it would be somebody on offense just don't know who given that 87 is usually a reciever number and none of the recievers other than roy have the experience/production combination that I think would be needed for a legend

June 13th, 2012 at 10:01 AM | Disagreements (Score:2 Normal)
lakeside
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Joined: 12/03/2010
MGoPoints: 1889

There will be none. BK_Finest that sh*t.

Man ball. Formerly, somebody else.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:37 PM | I liked the idea last year (Score:5 Normal)
dcmaizeandblue
Joined: 04/01/2010
MGoPoints: 674

I liked the idea last year with Desmond and I still like it now. I guarantee more people will know who Ron Kramer and Bennie Oosterbaan are because of this and I think that is exactly what the point of honoring them was in the first place. 

June 13th, 2012 at 8:30 AM | Exactly... (Score:3 Normal)
jmdblue
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 652

Every few years these jerseys will be awarded.  Whether they go to captains, stars or recruits the history of the player the numbers honor....and subsequent greats who wore them...will be given.  I don't like much of what Brandon does, but I have zero problem with getting these legends jerseys into circulation.

We're gonna play with toughness, we're gonna be responsible and we're gonna play with toughness.  This is Michigan.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:40 PM | Why not rotate the legend jerseys? (Score:5 Normal)
hart20
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Joined: 05/25/2011
MGoPoints: 3707

That way only 1 or 2 jerseys are out of retirement at the same time, helping to preserve the importance of the jerseys.

Yep, that's Simba made out of a pineapple.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:39 PM | I have a feeling that my (Score:4 Normal)
the Glove
the Glove's picture
Joined: 07/01/2008
MGoPoints: 970

I have a feeling that my frustrations with this number program is just beginning. Also, I thought the Desmond Howard patch was oversized last year as well.

June 13th, 2012 at 2:05 AM | Agreed. It was much too (Score:3 Normal)
All Aboard
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Joined: 01/03/2011
MGoPoints: 672

Agreed. It was much too large.

ALL ABOARD THE A-TRAIN!!!!!

" ~ Herm "

June 13th, 2012 at 6:45 AM | (No subject) (Score:-1 Offtopic)
June 12th, 2012 at 10:39 PM | Guesses: 48-Kovacs 47-Demens (Score:3 Normal)
goblueritzy92
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Joined: 01/26/2009
MGoPoints: 894

Guesses:

48-Kovacs

47-Demens

87-Gallon

June 12th, 2012 at 10:41 PM | Before the annual Dave (Score:5 Normal)
Wolverine Devotee
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Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: -9994437

Before the annual Dave Brandon diatribe when ever he makes a change begins, he said he was going to do this last year.

He said that evetually, he wants to get all of the retired numbers to become Legend numbers WITH THE PERMISSION OF THE HONOREES FAMILIES.

This is how it should be. The legacy of the numbers will live on.

 

When the ADept sells special jerseys and gear, you'll see my picture next to the targeted customer crowd. A sheep.....but a Blue one.....

June 13th, 2012 at 8:13 AM | I am no fan of Brandon (Score:2 Normal)
Blue in Yarmouth
Blue in Yarmouth's picture
Joined: 02/18/2009
MGoPoints: 2335

but I like this move a lot. For reasons already well laid out in this thread I think it is a great way to honor those players of the past while giving our future greats a way to be recognized as well.

The only thing I would say (and I am echoing Brian and Seth here) is that the numbers should be given to underclassmen IMHE. Giving it to upperclassmen who are "great players" would make it difficult to one day honor those players with a patch of their own. 

If an underclassment wore the legend patch and turned out to be legendary himself, he could be added to the patch and people would remember that "hey, so and so was number 48 for four years and was a great safety for us". Whereas if you only give it to upperclassmen you (I should say I) would have trouble remembering them wearing that legend number for one season when they wore another for the previous 3-4 years. 

Anyway, al in all I really like this move by Brandon. Even though I am not a fan of a lot of what he has done, I am not just a hater, he did good here IMHE.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:40 PM | One thing I hope happens out (Score:5 Normal)
Bando Calrissian
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Joined: 07/02/2008
MGoPoints: 7919

One thing I hope happens out of all of this is a redesign of the legends patch, as well as a version in white for the away uniforms. The Desmond design was a clunky, uninspired piece of design work to say the least.

June 12th, 2012 at 11:01 PM | It was definitely too big. (Score:4 Normal)
snarling wolverine
Joined: 12/14/2011
MGoPoints: 4701

It was definitely too big.  All it needs is the legendary player's name.  We can figure out the rest.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:41 PM | but no #1 yet..... so (Score:1 Normal)
varsity
varsity's picture
Joined: 06/29/2010
MGoPoints: 1530

but no #1 yet.....

so apparently the #1 is more sacred a number in michigan football than #48, which was an f'ing president.....

it's kind of a cool idea, but seems gimmicky, and just throwing a tacky patch on the jersey.....not a huge fan

 

 

 

 

 

 

June 13th, 2012 at 10:48 AM | Yeah, he was an fing president. (Score:-1 Flamebait)
June 13th, 2012 at 11:12 AM | Yeah, because, like, with a little luck, maybe Braylon... (Score:1 Normal)
Section 1
Section 1's picture
Joined: 06/29/2009
MGoPoints: 14306

Yeah, because, like, with a little luck, maybe Braylon Edwards coulda been President, and then we'd have a really good reason to retire #1...

 

 

June 12th, 2012 at 10:41 PM | I'm sure I'm in the minority (Score:5 Normal)
SteelBrad
Joined: 04/27/2011
MGoPoints: 200

I'm sure I'm in the minority but I love this. Generations of fans have no idea who these Legend's are. And as long as the families approve it, which they evidently have, I'm good with it.

Forever For Michigan

June 12th, 2012 at 10:49 PM | The opposite side of the coin (Score:-1 Trolling)
June 12th, 2012 at 10:52 PM | Im on board with the idea a a (Score:1)
cozy200
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Joined: 01/02/2011
MGoPoints: 873

Im on board with the idea a a whole but please dont issue a new throwback for every game they will be honored with fergodsakes

Its called a royale with cheese

June 12th, 2012 at 10:52 PM | Why is this happening so (Score:5 Normal)
ryebreadboy
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Joined: 12/02/2010
MGoPoints: 1791

Why is this happening so fast?  Why not do one per year at a big game, or something?  We're honoring Ford at Illinois?  Really?  Why?  Same with Kramer at Massachusetts.  At least wait until Big 10 games.  I guess DB thinks we need a show to attract fans and interest to the cupcakes.

Denard has spent the offseason working really hard and smiling at people.

June 12th, 2012 at 11:37 PM | You do realize those are the (Score:3 Normal)
blacknblue
Joined: 06/18/2009
MGoPoints: 419

You do realize those are the first three home games of the season right.  They're just trying to do a seperate ceremony for each of the families much like they did for Desmond.  If they add a fourth jersey before the season start I'm sure the ceremony will be the day of the Michigan State game.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:53 PM | POTUS (Score:3 Normal)
Bryan
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Joined: 07/10/2009
MGoPoints: 8086

#48



Legend

I have a Fandom Endurance III merit badge

June 12th, 2012 at 10:53 PM | I still don't like the idea, (Score:3 Normal)
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
MGoPoints: 3908

I still don't like the idea, but if the families want it this way, who amm I to disagree with it? It's their call after all. Also, they should talk to the Wistert family soon, Al Wistert is still alive (91 years old) and it would be cool to have him at the ceremony

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

June 12th, 2012 at 10:54 PM | I love this... (Score:5 Normal)
MGoShoe
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Joined: 04/23/2009
MGoPoints: 19236

...development. There is no other school or pro team that does this. None. Michigan came up with a unique way to honor its legends and so far, four Michigan legends or their families agree it's a fitting tribute.

Expect #1 and #2 to get similar deserved treatment by next year.

I'm just happy I have tickets to the AFA and ILL games so I'll see two of the three ceremonies.

LSA '89 - MBB Natl Champions, Big 10/Rose Bowl Champions | @MGoShoe

June 13th, 2012 at 12:22 AM | The numbers #1 and #2 aren't (Score:3 Normal)
Elmer
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Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2111

The numbers #1 and #2 aren't retired yet.  There shouldn't be a patch for those jerseys until they honor Woodson and maybe AC.

June 13th, 2012 at 10:31 AM | 21 was never retired but it (Score:2)
blacknblue
Joined: 06/18/2009
MGoPoints: 419

21 was never retired but it got the first legends patch to honor Desmond Howard. Eventually Woodson will be honored and the the number 2 jersey will get a patch to, that's kind of the point of this whole thing. I don't really think any of the jerseys besides the retired ones really need or will be guaranteed a patch.

June 12th, 2012 at 10:55 PM | I don't like this.  What was (Score:4 Normal)
WolverineHistorian
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Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 5126

I don't like this.  What was the point of retiring the numbers in the first place if we're bringing them back? 

I know, I know.  "Get off my lawn."  I guess this is further proof why everyone on YouTube thinks I'm in my 70's.   

Go Blue!  Always!

http://www.youtube.com/user/WolverineHistorian

June 12th, 2012 at 11:02 PM | Because they... (Score:5 Normal)
MGoShoe
MGoShoe's picture
Joined: 04/23/2009
MGoPoints: 19236

...came up with a better idea. I really don't understand why this is so hard to grasp.

Michigan is about tradition, but our traditions are unique. This is the newest of our unique traditions.

LSA '89 - MBB Natl Champions, Big 10/Rose Bowl Champions | @MGoShoe

June 12th, 2012 at 11:03 PM | The point is we're not (Score:5 Normal)
dcmaizeandblue
Joined: 04/01/2010
MGoPoints: 674

The point is we're not retiring numbers anymore. We've come up with something much better in my opinion.

June 12th, 2012 at 11:10 PM | What was the point of (Score:4 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

What was the point of retiring the numbers in the first place if we're bringing them back?

If we still had only 40 players on the team, like we did way back in the single-platoon days when we started retiring numbers, we'd keep these retired. We did not know then that we'd eventually have over 100 players on the team, and thus a shortage of available numbers.  If we'd known that, I don't think we'd have ever retired any.

I do think they should only honor one legend per season, though.  Make it a special event each time.

June 12th, 2012 at 11:11 PM | Can we stop with this (Score:-1 Overrated)
June 12th, 2012 at 11:38 PM | You're missing the point. (Score:5 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

You're missing the point.  The athletic department's plan wasn't just to stop with the seven guys currently recognized and never retire anymore.  It wanted to keep going with jersey retirements, cutting the number of available numbers down further.  But that would be cutting it close.  As it was, we were penalized recently for playing two guys with the same number at the same time.

Let's not pretend that the seven guys currently honored are clearly superior to everyone else who's ever played here.  Really, how could you justify retiring Ron Kramer's jersey but not Desmond Howard's or Charles Woodson's?  Can anyone honestly argue that they didn't contribute as much to the Michigan tradition than Kramer, who played on three forgettable teams in the mid-1950s and was never in the running for the Heisman?

What about Anthony Carter?  Mike Hart?  Braylon Edwards?  Rick Leach?  Lloyd Carr recently spoke of a "backlog" of guys who are worthy of having their numbers retired.  I'm pretty sure the reason we haven't added to list is simply that it hasn't been practical to take any more out of circulation.  But that leads to the absurd de facto policy we had for a long time of not allowed anyone who played after 1960 a retired jersey.  We're not Minnesota.  We have a history that extends beyond then.

 

June 13th, 2012 at 12:25 AM | Woodson, Leach and AC are (Score:2)
Elmer
Elmer's picture
Joined: 04/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2111

Woodson, Leach and AC are very deserving.  Probably a couple linemen, too.  Maybe a guy like Dierdorf, Hutchinson, Long, etc...

June 13th, 2012 at 2:08 AM | There is no need (Score:2 Normal)
RayIsaac91
Joined: 06/25/2009
MGoPoints: -449

There is no need to disparage Ron Kramer and his accomplishments. His playing on "forgettable" teams makes his selection to the All-American team (two times) that much more of a testament to his ability. Your comment about the Heisman race is equally absurd.

June 13th, 2012 at 7:55 AM | Off-topic, but I'm grading English exams. (Score:2)
OHbornUMfan
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Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 1887

Thanks for correctly using a gerund.  My faith in the American education system has been restored by one unit.

June 13th, 2012 at 8:00 AM | Sorry, I am an engineer and (Score:2)
Baldbill
Baldbill's picture
Joined: 04/09/2009
MGoPoints: 2002

Sorry, I am an engineer and for the life of me, I have zero idea what a gerund is. Now I will have to go look it up and see if I care.

;-)

Semper Fidelis

June 13th, 2012 at 11:46 AM | My point is not to disparage (Score:4 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

My point is not to disparage Kramer.  He certainly was a great player.  But how can you justify his jersey retirement over Desmond's or Woodson's?  You can't seriously argue that he was more of a Michigan icon than those two.  

The only reason he has a retired number and they don't was that we ended the practice, not because people actually think those two don't measure up to him.  

 

June 13th, 2012 at 1:03 PM | I get your point. (Score:0 Overrated)
June 13th, 2012 at 7:59 AM | Ron Kramer was a 3-Time (Score:-1 Overrated)
June 13th, 2012 at 11:51 AM | This is not an all-sports (Score:3 Normal)
jmblue
Joined: 11/07/2008
MGoPoints: 28969

This is not an all-sports honor; it's a football honor.  Unless we're talking about a guy like Ford who became President, non-football considerations should not matter.

Charles Woodson and Desmond Howard received the highest honor any college football player can.  Woodson is the only player in college football history to receive the Heisman while playing defense.  But he's not good enough to be on par with the Wisterts, Oosterbaan, Harmon, Kramer and Ford?  Ridiculous.

 

 

June 12th, 2012 at 11:48 PM | ALSO A FACTOR (Score:5 Normal)
Feat of Clay
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Joined: 08/10/2009
MGoPoints: 2874

Maybe we don't have enough fire hydrants to paint.

 

Candace: No... That why they make smart word box for tell monkey hard brain-hurty things.
Phineas: Removing prepositions makes it more condescending.
June 12th, 2012 at 10:58 PM | I might be in the minority, (Score:5 Normal)
Stike A Pose
Joined: 10/16/2011
MGoPoints: 158

I might be in the minority, but I think this is a great idea.  It will be cool to see the numbers on the field as a one off, plus it will put some national attention to the idea thus more kids hering about Michigan.  Might also be used as a recruiting tool as well.

The only problem I have are the games they are being used in.  Air Force, UMass, and Illinois?  How about ND, MSU, and OSU.  At least make the numbers actually mean something.

June 12th, 2012 at 11:04 PM | I was under the impression (Score:2)
dcmaizeandblue
Joined: 04/01/2010
MGoPoints: 674

I was under the impression that they're putting the numbers back in circulation for good. So it will be the same as last year with Desmond. There will be a ceremony and from then on the jersey will have that patch.

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