Victor Hale II

June 18th, 2013 at 6:54 AM ^

So is this comment to be taken as an indictment of the SC standards and/or lengths to which they'll go to keep a kid eligible, or is it a compliment to their academic support staff?

And yes, it's hard to laugh too much at this comment when Tate said the same thing just a few years ago.

Son of Lloyd Brady

June 18th, 2013 at 7:03 AM ^

Sounds like what Adolphus Washington said about ohio when he committed:

 

It's the education part. I know all these schools athletically can offer me the same thing. The academic support at Ohio State, there is no way you can fail. Even if you're giving minimal effort there is no way you can fail.

alum96

June 18th, 2013 at 7:11 AM ^

Call me an outlier but I appreciate the honesty.  Look I saw about 6 football/basketball players in my 4.5 years at UM in my classes.  The reality is many (not all) are in a different set of classes ("Kinesiology") and the academic standard is "different".  If that is what happens at Michigan I can only imagine what the heck is going on at some lesser institutions to get these kids through the system.

Again, at least this kid was honest.

Lucky Socks

June 18th, 2013 at 7:42 AM ^

You say "Kinesiology" like its a clan of academic lepers. I graduated from the school of kines and I can assure you that I am doing well very, and my peers are doing very well with their degrees. It's true that many athletes get filtered into Kines for year 1 -- but many don't finish there. That's not to indict the athletes intelligence or effort either, because those that I did have classes with seemed pretty bright. I'm just saying; Kines isn't playskool and athletes aren't being handed grades any more than regular students (even LS&A has gimmes). Theres no Yoga, Bowling, or Basketball class (actually there is a basketball class...in LS&A, very popular). Of the 4 majors the school offers, only Phys Ed could be considered "easy" and to be honest I don't remember a single football player in that track.

Academic support and individual attention are the reason it's hard to fail. I realize Kines has a certain reputation because many athletes begin there, but did it ever occur to you that many want to study it? Ask DeShawn Hand. Kines aligns pretty strongly with what a 18 year old athlete would want to study. The "different set of classes" has very little to do with keeping players eligible. I'm sure you didn't mean to insult a whole school and I see your point but its not Kinesiology that is the secret eligibility trick for the academically challenged.

MSHOT92

June 18th, 2013 at 8:16 AM ^

Anything is easy...if you take the easy way out. The intro level kinesiology is reasonably easy, but once you start moving into exercise physiology, biomechanics, and motor learning it is more like bioengineering than "playing school." Perception is what it is. Your comment is both ignorant and unrealistic.

E. Gordon Gee

June 18th, 2013 at 10:17 AM ^

I come from an engineering background but as someone who minored in Exercise Science at OSU and has taken the major course work in Kinesiology*, Exercise Physiology*, and Biomechanics, I agree that there is a lot of rigor within a major like that and within those classes. I have a lot of respect for those in that field of study and give them their due props. 

*Classes taught by a professor with post-graduate work at Michigan...

 

Lucky Socks

June 18th, 2013 at 8:59 AM ^

Nobody is saying any of the Kinesiology majors are among the most difficult at U of M.  It's certainly not Aerospace Engineering, Organic Chemistry or anything whose name alone makes your brain hurt.  There are a number of majors we can all agree are "hard." But beyond that there's a lot of other areas of study and "what's easy" becomes the same answer to the questions "what are you good at?" or "what do you like?"

Sociology, English, History, Econ, Psych, Biology, Political Science, PitE, any language, Nursing, Org Studies, African-American Studies, Teaching, Math, etc.. etc..

You want to sit here and rank difficulty of these 'mid-level' majors?  Even business; you have to perform well to be accepted in the first place but I've heard it actually isn't too demanding once you're there.  

What's easy to one student is hard to another.

floridagoblue

September 3rd, 2013 at 2:54 PM ^

Taken as a straight proportion of those interested in each school/college, applicants have an easier time getting into the College of Engineering than the School of Kinesiology. The lowest acceptance rate for a school/college at Michigan is Music, Theater, and Dance. the second lowest is Kinesiology (32% of freshmen admitted). LSA and Engineering both have higher admit rates for freshmen applicants. A striaight up comparison of HS GPA and SAT/ACT scores shows almost the same ranges for Kinesiology and LSA. I haven't seen the Engineering numbers lately so don't know on current values for Engineering freshmen scores and GPA. The point is that today's School of Kinesiology is nothing like it was 15 years ago.

alum96

June 18th, 2013 at 7:58 PM ^

I took 3 calculus classes,  2 organic chemistries, 2 physics and then some engineering classes (before i left that specific major) so I am perhaps biased.  I will speak to the LSA in general which will get my neg'd to -50 I am sure since 70% of people here are LSA majors.   My easier classes were in LSA - by a long shot.  I got an A+ in Anthropology, my only one at UM. ;)

My larger point is there are easier classes at UM, and if its like that at UM I can only imagine what its like at other schools.  If you felt I threw Kinesiology under the bus, I apologize - I think any course load at UM is harder than most other schools just from the curve alone and quality of student you compete against.

Monocle Smile

June 18th, 2013 at 10:37 PM ^

Sure, there are generally sharp grade curves in CoE (as an aero major, I was very grateful for most of these) while there might not be a curve in an Anthropology class, but I knew dudes who could do batshit integrations as easily as breathing, but couldn't compose a greeting card. It really depends on what comes naturally.

danimal1968

June 18th, 2013 at 11:46 AM ^

is no longer where most UM athletes wind up.  Most of them are LSA nowadays.  A few go into Kinesiology but it's not like it used to be.

Incidentally that Sports Management major that Mr. Hand is so excited about?  It's in the School of Kinesiology.

 

bacon1431

June 18th, 2013 at 8:06 AM ^

You probably do have to try to fail. I took a tour of University of Toledo football facilities. The academic support was very thorough even there. I can't imagine what Otis like at a UofM or South Carolina or Oregon. Study tables, tutors, and other resources make it that the only way you fail is if you go through with an I diagnosed learning disability or you are just lazy.

boliver46

June 18th, 2013 at 9:03 AM ^

As a walk-on, I was jealous of all the support they had as Scholarship athletes at Toledo.  Lots of individual attention & tutors.  The guys who did poorly just didn't take advantage of what they were offering - basically deciding NOT to use the system to it's full advantage.  Guy who was on the team with me had the world at his feet...free school, free room & board, free tutoring/support...and decided to skip classes, miss meetings with his tutor, and flunk out year 1.  Sad.

Lucky Socks

June 18th, 2013 at 9:09 AM ^

Meant to ask you this in the thread you started, but walk-ons don't get academic support? I'm fairly sure they do at Michigan; they certainly have access to the building and plenty of other perks (equipment, nutrition, meals, healthcare). Probably not to the exact same level but they definitely aren't neglected completely.

boliver46

June 18th, 2013 at 9:39 AM ^

NOT neglected - but it's definitely different.  I can't speak for how things are now (this was 21 years ago), but my options were limited. 

Scholarship players could go to the "open" Tutoring.  Someone would be in the tutoring office 8a-6pm M-F and 9a-12p on Saturdays and scholarship players could go anytime.  Appointments were also able to be scheduled with individual tutors which are what he skipped out on.  Tutoring was unlimited for scholarship players.  Walk-ons could schedule time with tutors but it was limited to 1 hour per week.  Definitely a good thing but not the same level of support (again might be different now).

Same access to equipment, etc., but meals were different.  We had team meals on game day, but that was all the access I had to planned or University subsidized meals.  Scholarship players could basically get what they wanted, when they wanted from one particular cafeteria on campus - as well as protein shakes, etc. depending on the nutrition program they were on (weight gain vs. weight loss).  I was given a printed nutrition guide to gain weight/muscle, and I was on my own to supply the food.  This is not to say friends didn't get me stuff on their Rocket Card on the sly.

It wasn't exactly a case of the total haves and have nots - but it was definitely a different program for walk-ons. 

MGoBrewMom

June 18th, 2013 at 10:31 AM ^

paying student, I was also jealous of the support athletes got compared to me. It is a benefit they get, and while regular/non athletes would have to pay for that benefit, they don't. FWIW I don't have a problem with it, because they have demands on their time... but for those who imply the students are so taken advantage of, this is one of those things that should be kept in mind.

Gulogulo37

June 18th, 2013 at 9:34 AM ^

It's just hard to FAIL, period. If you show up to class and you do the bulk of the work, even if that work is pretty crap, it's pretty hard to actually fail the class. You'll just a get a bad grade. That sounds like "minimal effort" to me.

ijohnb

June 18th, 2013 at 9:40 AM ^

players in revenue sports get special academic treatment in a variety of ways in high level college athletics.  At Michigan, at South Carolina, at Michigan State, at Ohio State.   At Everywhere. 

Good, now the secret is out.  Feels good to get that one off my chest.

In reply to by ijohnb

Vote_Crisler_1937

June 18th, 2013 at 12:58 PM ^

All sports get lots of special academic treatment. Even if you are a walk-on. Starting with unlimited tutoring and lots of communication between your two (at least) academic advisors and the profs.

Gitback

June 18th, 2013 at 10:46 AM ^

It's a fine line between "trashing" a school's academics and praising their academic support.  Kind of like the line between stupid and clever.

It's just that little turn...

go16blue

June 18th, 2013 at 3:28 PM ^

His quote came out of a joint interview with Wesley Green, and Key's comment was tack on response to : "They help you out and make sure you get your work done. If you're struggling in a subject, they have a certain tutor that helps you in that subject that will help you out with getting your grades up or whatever the case will be. I think that's really important to me, just because after college, you want to have a backup plan to football."

 

Not that bad