Onaje Miller versus Dee Hart
I just noticed that Scout has MSU commit Onaje Miller ranked at 25 and Dee Hart ranked at 26 among all RBs nationwide.
http://recruiting.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=4&pid=11&yr=2011
Is this Miller guy supposed to be that good?
I hadn't even heard of Miller before he committed to MSU and haven't heard much about him since (does he even have a tape online anywhere?).
Considering all the attention that big time programs have been giving Dee Hart, I find it odd that Scout has the players ranked so closely.
I know coaches sometimes find guys who fly under the radar like we did with Shawn Conway, but in my experience that rarely influences the recruiting services unless a bunch of other schools also jump on board.
the scout rankings are a joke at this point, there is no way the two running backs are even remotely comparable right now. dee hart has offers from texas, florida, fsu, ohio st, michigan, auburn, alabama, etc. who does onaje miller have offers from? it's laughable
I'm with Obes on this one. What says more about a player than the schools that are willing to take him? If a guy is a two star on scout but has offers from bama, florida and USC, he's probably better than the guy scout has as a 4 star and committed to Duke because they were the only school that wanted him.
The offers might at least have a little bit to do with geography. Hart's in Florida, Miller's in Michigan - visibility is a lot different. Maybe Miller would have more offers if he wasn't from the great white north.
that Hart also has offers from notre dame & pittsburgh.
there may be something to what you're saying, but i'm too biased to agree with you. also, if a player is that good he will draw early offers from all over the country. Lawrence Thomas, for example, holds offers from Bama, Florida, Miami-Fla, & USC; and DeAnthony Arnett has offers from UCLA, Bama, USC, Tennessee, Stanford, Arkansas, etc...
That could play into it, but the top players from Michigan always have offers from outside the midwest, or at least the other good squads in the Big Ten. Your reasoning is probably a big part of why Miller doesn't have any SEC offers, but if he's as good as Hart, he should have offers from Penn State, Ohio State, Notre Dame, and at least one semi major school outside the Midwest. Rivals does list Michigan as having offered, do we know that this is true? I hadn't even heard of the kid before he committed to MSU. Is this one of those kids like Mylan Hicks who "had an offer" to UM, but was clearly their 5th or worst target so he wanted to be the top guy at State?
Yea, before I look at a kid's "stars," I always check his offer sheet. That might be why I'm so certain M-Rob is going to make at least 1 All-Big Ten team in his time here.
I agree. I know that we like to think players Michigan recruits are better than those we don't, but look at their offer lists - Demetrius is being courted by all the popular kids, while Onaje's is very mediocre to decent.
Not saying that Onaje Miller isn't good, but I'll go with the hype on this one. Let's just hope that Hart really does commit.
Well as soon as it's Raback'ed we'll all be sleeping better at night.
Too soon, though?
This is based solely on his offer list, which is very short. Yes, he has some good offers on there and maybe it's so short b/c he committed early to MSU, but I would think that Demetrius Hart is the better back considering his long list of offers from all over the county and from some top powerhouses to boot.
That's what she said.
he looks like he has short stumpy legs to me...
or does every lil wayne song sound exactly the same.
and yes i like rap.
April 20th, 2010 at 10:38 PM ^
No its not just you. Im a HUGE Hip Hop fan but I only like a few songs by Lil Wayne. I think the majority of his songs his blabbers off nothing, makes baby noises, and uses auto tune. I mean all you have to do is look at the two songs he did with Eminem (Forever and Drop the World) and you can see he's no where on Eminem's level. And thats not just cuz I'm from Michigan!
Appears not to have great spead or quickness, but looks like he runs pretty hard and has good balance. Based on this, I don't think he is as good as Hart, especially not for our system or the type of RB we are looking for currently, but I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up as a high 3-star/low 4-star sort. Right now isn't the time to put much stock in any rating though, even if you want to debate how much stock to put in them ever.
Edit: It's also hard to judge based of Sophmore highlights, so he could be vastly improved too
Wrong question; the one you should ask is "is Hart supposed to be that bad?" and the answer is "no" but it's Scout, they can't even create a website that looks like it was made after 1998 so what do they know?
about a site that had nick hill ranked ahead of austin white at one time... so take their rankings FWIW...
Hah, White isn't by any means obviously better than Hill. Both were considered kind of average RB prospects.
Snark fail.
First let me start my defense by agreeing with everyone. I think Hart will outperform Miller in every way.
That said I will try to shed some light on this, as stupid as it may be...
I am going with that Scout doesn't really have a lot of good or bad on either guy (how they don't see Hart's potential is another issue). By Scout's stats, Miller is taller, one inch, and has about 15 lbs on Hart. Maybe that is why he is higher.
Again, not that you can't tell from my piss pour defense for Scout, I am all for Hart being the better back here!
They take things other than football talent into account, like character. Hence, Dantonio clearly only recruits model citizens, and we all know that RR only recruits crowbar-wielding thugs who don't deserve to play D-1 football. Therefore, Miller's character must be above that of Hart and he deserves a higher ranking.
I feel like I'm dyslexic when read I a comment like this.
listed as 5'8" and 190 lbs.
While I would agree that Hart should (and likely will) be higher rated, Miller is no slouch. Michigan either offered or might have been close to offering (I have seen differing reports on that). In the end, I think Hart will be more highly ranked by a fair amount but Miller will do OK. Miller was a good get for MSU and Hart (with any luck) would be a good get for UM.
Hart will be punished in recruiting ratings because he doesn't have prototypical NFL size. Rivals has admitted that alot of their ratings are projections of a prospects ability to be drafted in the NFL. Hart is 5'9 (on Scout) or 5'8" (on Rivals), and majority of NFL backs are at least 5'11" So yeah, I doubt Hart will end up a 5 star RB, probably mid 4 star because of his size.
I don't think it's really very close when comparing highlights( I know this is a slippery slope). Another factor is Hart is highly regarded and is considered one of the best backs in FL. When you compare the tapes it's easily evident that the difference in talent level the two play against is vast and Hart's video is much more impressive, even without factoring that in-This should be a no-brainer..Lansing or Orlando?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADleXMgH8uY
millers junior year video
As someone who lives in the same area as Justice Hayes, and have seen him play a few times, I am a little surprised he is ranked as high as he is as well. Nice player, but he doesn't seem top 15 to me. He was easily taken away and ineffective in their playoff game last fall.
Can anyone give me some clarification on how that first name is pronounced? I'm praying it is "Ownage" though deep in my heart I know it is not.
For those of you not too familiar with the recruiting services, it's a very political process. If the top 250 players really were stacked up on talent alone, they would literally all come from TX, FL, CA (and PA and OH to a lesser extent). Obvoiusly there would be some outliers, but not a lot.
Because Scout doesn't want to alienate readers or fans of teams in certain areas, outside of 5* talent, Scout generally will try and distribute the top players so that it's a little more even across geography.
By the way, this isn't some whackjob theory that I came up with. This is what I heard from a very good Scout moderator. I am assuming Rivals is similar, but couldn't tell you for sure...
It's already been mentioned in this thread and a million other times, but it's worth repeating. IN my mind, there are really three things you can triangulate on to determine how excited you should be about a recruit.
1. Average ranking (scout, rivals, ESPN)
2. Offers (obviously a 3* with offers from USC, Texas, Florida, Alabama, Michigan should have more talent/upside thna 3* with offers from Bowling Green and Kent)
3. Highlight Films (Tons of stuff available on youtube, recruiting sites)
All that said, there's no way to possibly tell how a kid will develop, so having Dee as the #25 RB versus #1 or #100 really doesn't mean too much...
No disrespect to the kid, but he is not even considered the best back in Michigan.
Personally, I am so impressed with the interviews I have seen of the Hart family that I want to see him in Maize and Blue now more than ever. Irrespective of his success at Michigan and beyond, the Hart family seems to represent and embrace everything that we want coming into the program.
Plus, he is slick, sick and quick :)
Hart isn't necessarily the top back in Florida, either. What's your point?
April 20th, 2010 at 10:40 PM ^
True but often the top player at a certain position in Michigan wouldnt even crack a top five in Florida.
Point is, comparing a relatively unknown on the national scale to someone who has been a)getting studied closely for at least 3 years, and b)offered, by every big time college in the country, while c)coming from a power Florida high school seems like a bad thing to throw out there in the first place.
Are you just trying to be antagonistic, or do you honestly not see any difference?
I see a difference between the two players, but I just don't think your original comment made your point well enough. Saying "Miller's not even the best back in Michigan" doesn't really tell us anything in regards to Hart, who wouldn't be the best back in Michigan, either (Justice Hayes is ranked above both).
Scout's rankings are really preliminary and rivals hasn't assigned star rankings yet. Let's see how they rank out this fall.
Lately there have been lots of 5-star dual threat QBs with questionable pro potential (Pryor, Tebow, Taylor, etc), so I don't think that rivals discriminates against great niche collge players. It sounds like Hart is the same size as Noel Devine, who was a five-star prospect on rivals.
Has offers from all over the place where Onaje Miller wasn't even heard of until he signed with MSU and even then no other big name schools tried to jump on him. I would take Demetrius, it's not even close.
This is why I generally don't put any stock into what Scout or Rivals ranks these people. Offer list is all that matters
"Offer list is all that matters."
Unfortunately, no, it's not. It would be nice if it were that easy, but if it were, recruiting sites could just look down a kid's list of offers and rank the kid accordingly. They don't do that, obviously (which is why this thread exists).
There are plenty of players without great offers who end up doing great things in college.
And there are plenty of players with great offers who don't do anything in college.
It's some mixture of the two. Coaches know something, but you can't totally discount recruiting services, either.
You said, "There are plenty of players without great offers who end up doing great things in college.
And there are plenty of players with great offers who don't do anything in college."
True, but you can't argue that there is a positive correlation between quality of offers, and production in college. That is just like saying plenty of 2* end up doing great, etc...
You're right. I only said that in response to the above poster, who said that "The offer list is all that matters." That's a slightly different argument than the 2-star/5-star argument (although probably just as silly), but eh, I just thought it was worth mentioning.
I feel like I've seen a bunch of running backs who look like Onaje Miller. I'm just not very impressed with anything I've seen from him. He's okay at a lot of things, not great at anything. I would say his best quality is his balance.
I try not to be a homer, but yeah, I'll take Hart over Miller every time.
Just look at the hair, Harts is clearly better, therefore he will without a doubt be the better collegiate player:
Dee
Onaje
Onaje
It takes Miller about 64 steps to go 10 yards.
they currently have joe bergeron(Tex commit) ranked above dee hart. no knock on bergeron but hes gonna play FB next year and probably has no future in college at RB. dee hart obviously has a future at RB based on his film. i would give scout 2-3 months to get their player rankings in better shape before pointing it out.
April 20th, 2010 at 11:56 PM ^
Just wondering, but does anybody know if Hart has an official offer from Florida? I know they aren't always up to date with the offer lists, but Rivals says Florida hasn't offered. Just curious.
Maybe he didn't like having to wear a ski mask during summer workouts.