Oly- this USA team has 4 GOATs on it?

Submitted by superstringer on

This incarnation of the USA Olympics team probably has FOUR of the greatest-of-all-time athletes in their Olympic sports.

Michael Phelps - men's swimming -- 22 gold medals in 4 Olympics and a block-M tattoo.

Simone Biles - women's gymnastics -- 3 straight world championships followed by Oly gold medal.  Won the all-around with a larger margin of victory than the last 7 Olympic champs combined.  Hardest routines in history of sport.  Will probably earn 3 more golds (floor, beam, vault).  Utterly dominant over the competition.  No female gymnast of any era can claim to be as dominant or as good as she is.

Melo -- men's basketball -- OK this is debatable, BUT:  While he's not Jordan or Kobe and his NBA skillz and career aren't GOAT ... in the Olympics, he's USA's all-time scorer and this year will become the first male basketball player ever to win 3 straight golds.  Carried the team (with Irving) the other night, showing how he's elevated to being the team leader.  This is arguable, but if you asked who is the "best" Olympian on men's hoops, he probably has to be your first answer.

Kerri Walsh Jennings - women's beach volleyball -- 3 straight Olympic golds and a fourth in sight (with a different partner this time).

Katie Ledecky may some day be on this list, but at the moment she is not the GOAT in women's swimming.  Yet.

Armbuster

August 12th, 2016 at 10:48 AM ^

Her dominance is unreal, but she's still improving and has much of her career in front of her. I'm fine with Biles being included and Ledecky being tentative, because she still has 2+ more Olympics in front of her.

 

In Gymnastics, on the other hand, the *22 year old* Aly Raisman is nicknamed grandma. At most, Biles has 1 more competitive Olympics, and this year is almost certainly her peak.

reshp1

August 12th, 2016 at 10:51 AM ^

She's dominant in one stroke. Hosszu will beat Ledeky's metal count in this olympics. I think it's too early to call on GOAT even in just her events, let alone swimmer in general.

I don't think Biles should be on there either. The degree of difficulty argument falls flat for me, the routines always get harder as time goes on. She has dominated her competition, but it's also a down period for the other traditional gymnastics powers (the team competition won by record margin as well). Her performance was absolutely inspiring, but you have to be careful of recency bias on things like naming people GOAT.

schreibee

August 12th, 2016 at 11:53 AM ^

Agree on recency bias, Howeva - Biles margin over Raisman in All-Around was greater than the margin of every Gold winner over Silver from 1980-2012 COMBINED! I mean - even if she only goes to 1 Olympics that's a pretty high mark. And she'll certainly go to at least 1 more, maybe 2 even given her age, petite power, drive. Biles could for instance set a goal of winning every individual discipline - assuming she doesn't do that this Olympics! Melo = meh! Phelps, Walsh no brainers obviously.

ken725

August 12th, 2016 at 1:05 PM ^

Maybe it is too early to call her GOAT as a swimmer in general, but you can call her GOAT in her events especially the 800 Free.

Nobody in the world can swim the splits she does. Ledeky has the top 12  fastest times ever swam in the 800 Free. 

In the 400 Free she has the 9 of the 10 fastest ever swims. The only other one was Pelligrini who swam that time during the banned supersuit era.

TrueBlue2003

August 12th, 2016 at 2:25 PM ^

she could be called the GOAT...in distance freestyle.  But the GOAT women's swimmer? Definitely not yet, and probably not even the best right now.  As you mention, Hosszu will come away with more medals and is the WR holder in both medley distances, which includes all strokes obviously.

Not sure I agree with you on Biles though. Her dominance is so great that it's like a swimmer lapping the second place finisher in a 400 meter (8 lap) race. It's not hard to watch the things she does and the things that anyone else possibly claiming this title did (Comaneci is probably the only one here) and know that she's on another level - another planet.  It's also hard to say that her competition isn't as good, while also admitting that the level difficulty and athleticism overall continues to get better and better.  Eastern Europe was dominant for many years, but they might not necessarily be down as much as USA and China have blown past them with increased focus on the sport and a larger pool of now interested women.

Russians and Romanians could probably still get 10s on the routines that their best women were doing 40 years ago, but they haven't been able to go to the new heights of the sport (literally and figuratively).  And Biles is redifining what those heights are.  A trademark of any GOAT.

Mr. Yost

August 12th, 2016 at 4:30 PM ^

Biles isn't new though...just new to people who only watch the Olympics.

She's been DOMINATING for years and people in her own sport call her the GOAT. Which rarely happens before someone is retired or at Phelps status.

People don't even argue about Biles. She's destroyed everything since the 2012 Olympics.

Ledeky is just as dominant, but she doesn't even have the 4 year span BIles does (yet). 

Biles defintiely deserves to be on the list - no recency bias whatsoever. Just because it's recent doesn't mean it's no the best.

clarkiefromcanada

August 12th, 2016 at 10:12 AM ^

This 3-4 Olympic window is a pretty new phenomenon for elite athletes and one suspects this relates as much to the availability of sponsorhip monies to support continued training/development as it does modern training/nutrition/rehab/recovery. Mark Tewskbury (former Canadian gold medalist) said as much this week discussing Michael Phelps who, at his age now is married, a parent but can train full time. This was not really sustainable a generation of olympian ago. Hell, the great Mark Spitz retired at 22.

It is quite true that gymnasts start so early and have such a short competition frame that comparisons to swimming are not really viable.

funkywolve

August 12th, 2016 at 10:44 AM ^

Jenny Thompson and Dana Torres hold the record for most Olympic medals in swimming, 12 each, and they both competed in multiple Olympics.

Jenny Thomspon:  1992, 1996, 2000, 2004.

Dana Torres:  1984, 1988, 1992, 2000, 2008.

Matt Biondi who is 3rd all time in men's Olympic swimming medals for the US competed in 3 Olympics:  1984, 1988, 1992.

Mr. Yost

August 12th, 2016 at 4:36 PM ^

You can have a baby and jump right back in the water as an elite swimmer. How many gymnast moms are in the Olympics?

We've got guys like Irvin who are over 30 swimming in the Olympics. That's not happening in gymnastics.

Which is why people already call Biles the GOAT. Because of what she's done over the past 4 years.

Swimming, if you don't dominate in the Olympics - you're Ryan Lochte. An AMAZING swimmer, but no one is calling him the GOAT and he holds a world record.

Same thing with track. You need the gold medals.

...its why the OP had to qualify Melo. Because yea, he's probably the greatest Olympian to play MBB. But no one is calling him the great basketball player ever.

So is Biles the greatest Olympic gymnast? No. Is she the great gymnast of all time? Yes.

Phelps and Walsh-Jennings are the only two who can claim greatest olympian AND GOAT.

bluebyyou

August 12th, 2016 at 11:43 AM ^

When you watch Biles and Raisman sticking their landings in tumbling routines, you can appreciate the physical abuse gymnast's endure which, I'd suggest, is the single largest reason why gymnasts don't have terribly long careers.

cletus318

August 12th, 2016 at 10:01 AM ^

This is where comparing medal counts gets tricky and misleading. It's fairly rare for female gymnasts to compete in more than one Olympics, while swimmers get mutiple opportunities for medals in multiple Olympics. Truth be told, Biles would have very well be favored to win gold in 2012 but couldn't compete because of age restrictions. Regardless, the discussion really wasn't about dominance, it's about greatest ever. Don't get me wrong, I think Ledecky probably ends up there eventually, but Biles is there today.

TheTeamTheTeam…

August 12th, 2016 at 1:51 PM ^

I just find it hard to be the favorite without having ever competed at the senior level at all. "A medal favorite" is a little different than "the gold medal favorite." I could see her as A medal favorite, just like everyone else on the USA gymnastics team but the gold medal favorite is a stretch in my opinion. Again Biles is a fantastic gymnast and I look forward to watching her for years to come at the world championships. But you're putting an 11-12 year old Biles who hadn't competed at senior level over the actual gold medal favorite in the all around. That's unreasonable.

cletus318

August 12th, 2016 at 12:35 PM ^

I know I follow women's gymnastics a lot closer than most people, but as was just stated, Biles was dominant immediately upon becoming eligible for senior competition and has remained dominant over that stretch in a way the sport has never experienced. People anticipated her eligibility for senior level competition the same way people anticipated LeBron's NBA arrival (clearly not the same level of attention, as women's gymnastics is only so popular). It's not at all a stretch to state she was likely the best gymnast on the planet in 2012. Trust me when I saw she was that good even then.

jmblue

August 12th, 2016 at 12:05 PM ^

But margin of victory also has to do, in part, with the level of competition you face, which varies from one Olympics to the next.  The judging system has also gone through some changes.

I think it's tricky to compare gymnastic greats from different eras.  Suffice it to say that she's in that select group, anyway.

SpinachAssassin

August 12th, 2016 at 10:00 AM ^

I was going to make a sarcastic joke before reading the full post that you can't forget Melo! Funny to see him there in seriousness. I disagree including essentially a system guy (in international ball) that hasn't had GOAT success professionally except when the US steals lunch money from overwhelmed international squads. Great player? Yes. Happy he reps the red white and blue? Yes. Olympic GOAT? Ehh...

jmblue

August 12th, 2016 at 12:38 PM ^

No, you can't make a case for longevity, because for decades, American basketball players weren't allowed to play in the Olympics once they turned professional.   And in the professional era ('92-present), many players have been happy to compete only once.

And he's not the best ever in Olympic play.  In his three previous Olympics, he averaged 2.4, 11.5 and 16.2 points per game. 

Even if you think scoring is the only part of basketball that matters (as opposed to defense, rebounding and passing, none of which he's terribly strong at), he's hasn't been anything special.  He's just played in a lot of games.

 

 

 

 

Cali Wolverine

August 12th, 2016 at 12:53 PM ^

player (far better respectively than his NBA career)...but Kobe Bryant reshaped Olympic Basketball on the Redeem Team. If it was not for Kobe doing his best "selfish Kobe" impersonation (scoring 20 pts in a clutch performance) when everyone was just standing around in shock watching Spain play beautiful basketball, Melo would have had a Silver in 2008. Likewise, Melo was great, but Lebron dominated Olympic Basketball in 2012. Both Lebron and Kobe (yes he was asked) chose not to be on the 2016 team. Had they said yes, all three of them would have 3 gold metals (provided we win), with Melo being the third best of that trio. It is much harder to compare Olympic success on large team sports v individual accomplishments that have never been seen before. Melo helped bring USA basketball back to doninace (and played a major part) with a lot of other greats. But GOAT...come on.