Ohio's post-spring starting lineup released today.
Check it out:
Ohio's post-spring starting lineup released today.
Check it out:
IMO, the linebackers and corners look very good, the D-Line looks above average as well. That offensive line though makes me cackle with glee. It lacks both depth and talent. Mr. Miller had better be ready to scramble.
Playing against us, Sabino looked like he was Obi Ezeh. Shazier scares me, I'll give you that, and Grant is definetly good. But Sabino is meh.
Please please please have Taylor Decker going 1 on 1 with Death Roh..
Sabino was inconsistent last year, but if he plays like he did in the Gator Bowl, he's gonna have a heck of a season.
if Williams is back to form, the D-line will be excellent. Sabino hasn't lived up to the hype, and as noted below, Grant was a fat guy last year. Roby is really good, but the safeties aren't. Every year surprises; I'd expect Ohio's D to be very good but not the same as some of their better ones in the last 10 years.
I actually think this could be the best defense Ohio State has fielded in a few years. The only defensive starter lost from last year is Sweat, and while he was a solid LB, he certainly wasn't anything close the lead LBs OSU has had over the past decade.
The defensive line should be absolutely dominant with Simon and Hankins in the lead roles and a LOT of very good and experienced players around them. The linebackers are a little bit of a question mark because of inexperience, but the talent is there. Shazier and Grant's ability to step up (Or Sabino finally putting it all together.....) is by far the most interesting question on this side of the ball. The corners are excellent, and while the safeties aren't a true strength Barnett has been constantly singled out as a player who really stepped it up this spring.
Don't really understand why everyone thinks the safeties will be the weak link. Barnett was All Big 10 and Johnson/Bryant both have double digit start experience. I know that doesn't mean they'll be amazing, but I don't exactly consider them a weakness.
We could see our own dropoff at OL if Lewan leaves early for the NFL, having to replace Lewan, Barnum, and Omameh. Mealer leaves too, leaving only Jack Miller and Chris Bryant and a group of RS freshmen (Kalis, Mags, Braden, Bars, Williams?) to fill in. We have some talent and potential, but we will be very young.
Don't forget Schofield should be entrenched at RT for the next 2 years. If Lewan stays (please), then Schofield and Lewan will be our starting tackles in 2013 with Miller, Bryant and the RS freshman filling in the other spots. Very young group; this is where those years of thin OL recruiting starts to hurt. Sure is nice to hear reports that Kalis is playing at the level of a college soph already.
I don't think I have heard those same reports on Kalis. I have heard that he has a college ready body and has good technique, but I have not heard specifically that he played at the level of a college soph.
We'll also have the #1 OL class coming in. Granted they'll be freshman but still.
You forgot about Michael Schofield
Ups!, thats what happens when you leave the window open for a few minutes before you reply...
Receivers and offensive line are by far our two biggest issues.
The fact that all the receivers got on the field last year is nice, but our offense being an absolute mess didn't lead to them really doing anything with their playing time. Unless Philly Brown really steps it up there probably aren't any legitimate playmakers. However, Jake Stoneburner should be able to do some serious work in a TE/WR hybrid role.
While Brewster and Adams are huge losses, I expect the OL to play better than last year because of the move to a much simpler blocking scheme/better coaching. Pass protection will still be a big issue, and this is by far the biggest weakness of the team (Not to say we're absolutely loaded everywhere). They should be very good at creating space in the running game though. I think the biggest concern here is the fact that there is literally no quality depth unless some true freshman step it up (Taylor Decker has supposedly looked very good and may end up starting at RT though).
The one thing that should be very good is the running game. Jordan Hall has the ideal spread running back skill set, and Carlos Hyde is a big, powerful runner with deceiving speed. Neither are exceptional, but collectively they should make for a very nice outside/inside running game. Hall's ability as a receiver will also allow them to get on the field at the same time too. Of course, the biggest factor in the running game will be Braxton Miller. Having more than two designed QB running plays (Pistol speed option and 5 wide QB draw) will be beneficial to both the execution and aesthetics of the offense, and Miller has already proven he is a lethal runner.
Another thing on Miller. Even though he looked like a much better passer in the spring game, I don't think that will be a truly dangerous part of his game for another year (If ever). Both his play and production as a passer should be much better than last year for an assortment of reasons, but defenses are definitely still going to have the most success against us by shutting down the run and making us throw.
at Ohio might be decent, but look at history. Urban likes to run the QB and pass short all day. He will occaisionaly run with the backs about as much as he throws deep. Ohio RB's will slowly start to take the back seat now that this new offense is in place. It's actually not that different from RR's spread attack in many ways... This makes me pretty happy because the excellent running backs have always been the hardest thing to stop when we play the Buckeyes IMO.
What happened to the simple idea of a WR?
I already dislike them immensely.
I like our chances. Our offense got better, our defense should too being the second year in a system, their offense took a big hit, and the defense about stays the same.
And considering their offensive "explosion" was almost 100 yards on 2 passes with broken coverage, I like our chances.
Also, stats wise, Miller would have been 48% with a YPA of 5.7 without those two passes.
Grant starting at MLB eh? Not really sure who else was in the running, but didn't he show up last year really really fat and out of shape?
From what I read this spring, they were basically gonna live and die with Grant at MLB. He was highly regarded coming out of HS, but I don't remember them raving about him as the center of their defense.
From what I heard, Grant showed up pretty out of shape last fall. He was a lot slower than Vrabel wanted, which is why Grant didn't get a lot of playing time. Seems like Grant really brought into Marotti's conditioning program this offseason and has now officially jumped the incumbent starter, Storm Klein, on the depth chart.
Shazier has reportedly gained about 10-15lbs of muscle, so that should be adding a little more pop to his already devastating hits. Then there's Sabino, who after 4 years still seems to struggle grasping the cerebral aspects of the game, which results in him always being out of place. Most of us are hoping that as a 5th-year senior, he'll finally be a consistent contributor and become worthy of his #1 MLB rating in HS.
I doubt it, and certainly not with a mobile QB darting around back there, plus all 4 of last year's 5 leading receivers back in the lineup.
Also Meyer has a nice one-two punch at RB with Hall and Hyde to take the pressure off Braxton Miller a bit.
Yeah but that one receiver was everything to that offense. It was 1 stud and then everybody else. All 4 of everybody else isn't much.
Yeah but that one receiver was everything to that offense. It was 1 stud and then everybody else. All 4 of everybody else isn't much.
True that a mobile QB can alleviate some concerns of an inexperienced OL in scrambling to buy time, but even mobile QBs throw a lot better when they have time to set their feet and keep their eyes down field.
More problematic than in the passing game, that OL is going to struggle to open holes for their RBs. See MSU last year. They had pretty talented RBs in Baker, Bell, and Caper, and finished near dead last in the B1G in rushing because their line sucked ass.
Quick question for Michigan fans: where does your perception of our O-line sucking come from? There is only one player on the line without starting experience. We actually have a real O-line coach now. And Meyer himself said he is more pleased with the line. I honestly think they'll be top 5 in the conference. Unless of course we have mass injuries. One and we'd be fine, but any more and that's stretching things.
Your o-line play last year was mediocre at best and poor by OSU standards, and you lost your 3 best linemen in Adams, Brewster, and Shugarts. The coaching may be better but there are still likely to be transition issues when implementing a new scheme.
I'm pretty pleased with our first-team O-line, I think Mewhort, Norwell, Linsley, Hall, Fragel will be serviceable, but the dropoff in talent for the 2nd-team line worries me (aside from Decker). I think the addition of Joey O'Conner and Kyle Dodson in the fall will help a lot though. I agree that the O-Line will be a Top 5 B1G unit by mid-season, but it'll be a rough beginning.
Looking at this, the questions look like they might be on offense, but that's what everyone seemed to anticipate with the dawn of the Urban era. As I recall, Guiton has been on campus for about an hour, so there are depth questions at QB, to be sure, but I have to think Meyer will look for ways to make Braxton Miller work long before we see Guiton. That O-line is pretty fresh, I think, which will probably mean Miller works under pressure a little bit. Still, a mobile QB and some high-end receivers out there mean, offensively, they still quite alive potentially. I wonder if the relative lack of experience gets them off to slow starts though. The first year of Meyer's offense in Columbus could be intriguing.
The defense looks like it might be somewhere around where it was last year. That's not really a bad front four that they are putting out there, and they are looking good in the secondary as well, but I believe a majority of the returning starters were on defense anyway, so at least there is the advantage of experience there.
That being said, I think I like our shot in this one come November.
Guiton is actually going into his fourth year (RS Junior).
Their defense is a mortal lock to be better than it was last year. They have just about everyone back, and most of them have room to grow. It should be one of the top units in the conference, although I don't expect it to be in the class of some of the really dominant OSU defenses of years past.
Is that Daryl Baldwin who played DE the last couple of years?
Anyone know if he's on campus, and if they appeared to have anything resembling a power running game?
Yes, I remember seeing him in their spring game.
but third string fullback isn't listed on the depth chart
Ran for an 80 yard td on the students day thing they have.
Carlos Hyde is 6'0'' 230, and even though Meyer's offense is almost entirely shot gun based, there are a lot of power running plays.
Don't forget that Carlos Hyde was supposedly the fastest RB on the team last year (4.45 40, I believe). Hyde may not have a lot of shiftiness, but he can definitely truck through some players and take it to the house.
I'm just excited by the amount of depth and versatility at RB: a shifty back in Hall, 2 power backs with Hyde/Dunn, and 1 hybrid with Smith (not the mention Warren Ball coming in during fall).
That Oline is going to be really, really bad. Braxton better have his running shoes on.
caught 16 of the 18 TD passes thrown by Ohio last year.
Posey is now gone, but he had only 162 yards receiving and 2 TD catches on the season, most of that in big chunks against Michigan in his final game.
Next to Miller, the most dangerous dude on the team was TE Stoneburner, who returns. The other "receiver" that stands out to me now is TB Carlos Hyde.
That's because he was suspended for most of the season, then showed up for The Game. Last year Ohio was one of the worst passing offenses in the NCAA.
Yeah, he only played in a total of 3 games, including their bowl game.
Double post again? Hmm.
THAT Chris Carter
I thought he was OL? With their lack of depth there, flipping him over is a curious move.
He looked misserable on the OL last year, and I seriously doubt he was ever going to get much better. He looked pretty good at DT for a guy switching over from the offensive side of the ball, and his size along makes him an intriguing prospect at the position.
Except I like Denard running crazy on tsio MOAR than Miller doing the same to ours.
We recruited Reid Fragel to play OT. He wanted to play TE, so he went to OSU instead. Now he's playing OT there. That's funny/sad.
All the more reason to tell recruits what they want to hear, and once you have them in your program, show them where they will develop and get playing time.
This is the same thing MSU did with Will Gholston. He wanted to play LB because thats where he played in HS. Everyone in the world knew he was too tall and not quick enough to play LB in college, but they let him come to that conclusion after about two weeks of practice.
I have a feeling that Wyatt Shallman will end up playing something other than RB at UM.
That's different considering he's not coming to M because the school he really wants to go to doesn't want him at RB. And although you may be right, all sources indicate he's being brought in to play RB. Plus, most scouts have said he plays a lot better on offense that he does on defense. Now, maybe he ends up playing the spot Khalid Hill is being recruited for, the U back, but all good sources have said Shallman is a running back.
Are we all positive what the definition of runningback is when we talk about Shallman? Any time CC lines up with more than one back in the backfield Shallman is at what is typically considered the full back spot. If he lines up at tailback in college he'll join a very rare, and deeply secret, society of guys who played fullback in high school and lined up at tailback in college. I see him as another Hopkins. But if that's what everyone is refering to by "runningback" when talking about Shallman then I guess it's just an issue of semantics. Or is the confusion between fullback or defensive end?
I think he's a running back if he gets the ball rather than being a lead blocker. Sure, fullbacks get carries on occasion, but if a guy is mor often blocking for another RB, he's a fullback. If he's most often the only back in or running behind a fullback, he's a running back.
Playing the U-back requires the player to have some skills catching the ball. Does Shallman possess good hands like Khalid?
of big, physical RBs: Lytle, Wheatley, A-Train, etc. Borges has a history of recruiting them: Williams and Brown, among others. While it may come to pass that Shallman eventually ends up at a different position, I think he will get his shot at RB. I also think our coaches have more integrity than the "bait and switch" recruiting methodology.
Right now Shallman has been recruited to play Stephen Hopkins' role.
Watching their spring game, it appeared that Miller was better, but some of his passes were so far off it was unbelievable and many of them should have been intercepted.
Really galls me to see Hankins at Ohio. Starting, and doing great things. He should have been at Michigan. Can't cry over spilt milk, nor mope around about what could have been. However, I am REALLY glad that Hoke, Mattison, Borges, and the rest of the staff are doing a great job recruiting.
Nothing I didn't really expect...
Obviously Simon, Shazier (pending injuries), and Roby will be no fun to deal with on the defensive side of the ball. I'm much less concerned with the offense. Obviously Stoneburner, Braxton, and Jordan Hall are concerning, but stoneburner should be much less of a concern with our increased athleticism at linebacker/safety, which should also help with Braxton on the scrambling.
Overall, it will be interesting to see how things shape up once the new freshmen hit campus and get settled in.
Any predictions on who will make an immediate impact? I'm thinking Pittman and Washington could compete on the D-Line, but what about offensively?
On defense the only freshman who is going to get playing time right away is Noah Spence. There isn't anyone on the roster who has close to his speed at defensive end, and even though he isn't on campus yet, Meyer has said numerous times that as soon as he is, he is going to get a chance to get on the field and make plays.
Taylor Decker, Kyle Dodson, and Jacoby Boren will all get a chance to make an impact on the offensive line, but unfortunately that is much more a product of our complete lack of quality depth on the offensive line than anything else.
after i read each player, i thought "who cares?"
Everyone talking up OSU's offense can go fuck themselves.
It looks like they will have one of the better defenses in the B1G, and an average offense. However, good defenses usually make average offenses above average. I think they should be the favorite in their division and the The Game should be massively important for BCS invites. Perhaps we see them twice next year...which would be awesome.
When comparing the teams by position I think it looks like this:
Several in this list are very close, the biggest differences in talent/experience occur along the lines, which will be very interesting to see.
I can't wait!
QB - Michigan
RB - Michigan
WR - Even
TE - Ohio
OL - Michigan
DL - Ohio
LB - Ohio
CB - Even
S - Even/Ohio (slight)
SPT - Michigan
Coaching - Even (I think both schools have exactly the right person for their program)
I think this is fairly accurate, except for ST and CB. For ST, see my additional post. For CB, I'd take Roby over any secondary player Michigan has. Countess is good, but I wouldn't consider him all-conference or anything. Especially considering the way Posey destroyed your corners.
These kind of comparisons are always interesting. Ohio State fans always overrate our RBs and Michigan fans always overrate Denard. I honestly think Braxton will be at or close to Denard's level by The Game this year. Denard is such an explosive runner, but his passing is a huge question mark without a jump ball receiver.
Why do you give the edge to Michigan on special teams?
I, too, found this interesting. Both our punter and kicker are multi-year starters who have never really struggled. Also I'd say our returners are better. Hall isn't the TD threat that I'd like, but the guy gets great yardage.
"The Game" will be the only game Ohio is playing for next year. We won't see them twice because they are ineligible to play in the B1G championship game.
Very good point. I forgot.
They're going to be a VERY good team...period. They're well coachesd, have a good players and Meyer didn't inherit chopped liver for his system like Rich Rod did. Meyer would've recruited Miller. He wouldn't have recruited Sheridan or Threet.
But that's another discussion.
As for this year's team...I look for them to struggle to learn the system, but by midway through the year I think they're going to be hitting on all cylinders...or at least most.
If Michigan played Ohio week 1, I'd take Michigan by 10-14 points. I think it's a true toss-up as the last game of the year. I give Ohio the edge for being at home.
Personally my random prediction is that Michigan loses to Alabama, runs the table and loses to Ohio.
Ohio loses a game it shouldn't on the first half of the schedule (UCF, MSU, Nebraska) and then they run the table.
It would set up a rematch a week later, but Ohio is ineligible so Michigan, undefeated in its division plays and wins the B1G Conference Championship game and goes to a top BCS bowl (Rose Bowl), just missing a shot at playing for a National Championship.
With USC in the Orange Bowl for the National Championship...Michigan plays someone else, and wins. Finishes 12-2, B1G Reg. Season Co-Champs, B1G Championship Game Winner and with a Rose Bowl victory (...also victories over ND and MSU).
There, now you don't have to watch this season in suspense.