You're assuming that Pryor is still on the team. If he's gone, maybe they are all really close.
Ohio State Players Beginning to Fight
Point well made.
it's the Tat 5 and the quote said idiots.
If Tp is gone then that leaves Braxton as a potential starter, where did he get that big block O tat at??????????????????
and the OSU compliance office should be looking at every athlete with a tat and asking them to produce a receipt, credit card bill, etc. Then again, they've been acting more like the complicit office...
separated at birth?
Maybe its just a matter of boredom and not being able to distinguish simple differences in looks. Maybe the correct answer isnt "This guy thinks they look alike so he hates 2 billion people on this planet based on color" Sounds like you have a lot more hate and prejudice (prejudging) on your end than this poster.
"Not a single" is definitely an exaggeration, but yeah, it does happen a lot.
The only redeeming fact is that on the rare times people try to do this for pictures of white people, they are similarly terrible at finding matches.
In this case, it's obvious that because Tyler Braxton and Tracy morgan have similar skin tones and big eyebrows, they must have been separated at birth.
EDIT: Why the shit did I just call Braxton Miller Tyler Braxton? Don't know.
Oriental Andrew's saying that one black person looks like another black person does not necessarily mean that he thinks all black people look alike, anymore than people comparing Jimmy Clausen to an emu does not imply that they think all white people look like flightless birds.
I think they look alike, not because they're both black, but because they share similar features (eye crinkle, nose size/shape, cheekbones, hair cut, etc). It's ok broaden your perspective beyond race and perceived discrimination.
Holy shit. This kid is amazing. He's better than Pryor... A lot better.
I wonder if they have drawn the line between cheaters and non-cheaters with the knowledge that most of the cheaters will get caught and have to leave? I could see a bunch of Buckeyes scapegoating five players when it's really the culture of continuous abuse and arrogance that is doing them in.
Then again, there might not be enough non-cheaters on the team to be drawing any lines. I hope they all hate each other by November.
Sure, you know everyone you're dealing with in the old regime is corrupt, but once you take out the existing leadership you still need someone to run things. So, you'll hope to rehabilitate the rest in the interest of the greater good.
Or something like that.
If you read the tOSU blogs the official stance is that Tressel the martyr who died for the sins of the Tat5. TP is going to take all the blame because it lets them see Tressel as innocent and thus keep his legacy (aka wins) intact.
Things like Ray Isaac, Maurice Clarett and who exactly recruited the Tat5 will simply not be considered due to willful ignorance.
Do you think it's possible that NONE of the assistant coaches knew what was going on?
Fickell, the Assoc Head Coach who has been on staff for nine years, clearly had no clue any of this was going down and is innocent as the driven snow. He's an excellent choice to lead tOSU forward and definitely not a sacrificial lamb who will be offered to the NCAA when their ruling comes out.
I am sure Tressel's brother had NO CLUE what was going on either.
Tressel's brother came to Southview, "Toledo, oh where Allen gang is from" and just took five kids and took them out for lnch, right out of school...
I don't want to hear any of them complain. They all new what was going on and were ok with it until they got caught. Anyone of the players could have gone to the coaches, or the compliance office and made it an issue they had to deal with.
For all we know, they did. We've seen how information like that is received and acted upon.
That said, I have a lot more sympathy than you do. Let's say you're a straight shooter on the team, you see the cars, you see TP getting to raid the equipment closet. Maybe you're sick about it. You assume the staff knows but you can also see they aren't doing anything about it. Then what?
Who do you go to?
And where is your incentive to stick your neck out? Especially when the very people you'd be ratting on, and the people who are condoning/enabling the behavior, are capable of making your life very, very miserable. They control your training and your playing time. And your scholarship. Add to that, you see how fans treat people who are seen as "critical" of OSU (look at Herbstreit). And since you haven't played elsewhere, how do you know this isn't "just how it is" in college football?
I'd cut the other kids on the team some slack. We don't put young athletes in charge of team & institutional compliance, and for good reason.
That includes family who may not have Sacred Brotherhood clearance.
i had the same thought about the asst coaches. my prediction is that a new coach is brought in and the entire house is cleaned at the end of the year.
then on to their basketball program...
If we are going to pile on Tressel for recruiting Pryor, shouldn't we be looking at RR for the same thing? I have heard that little piece enough to make want to scream. We can't defend RR for some of the kids he recruited and criticize Tressel. I do realize that RR actually knows what discipline is and used it, but he still "recruited" the kids. IIRC RR loved Pryor so much that he contacted him about the Michigan job before contacting his own players...and we seem to forget that here (or I remember it incorrectly). Pile on Tressel and Pryor all you want, but don't be hypocrites about it.
let it go already
I didn't bring up RR to be critical of him, I have never criticized him for recruiting kids who had questionable character or who broke the law because he always did the right thing in my opinion with discipline. I was simply trying to make a point that those who say that Tressel is a man a bad character because he recruited the Tat5 are being a bit hypocritical on that issue. Tressel has done much to destroy his reputation, the kids he recruited (minus perhaps Chris Carter) are not among them. Like you all point out, his lack of control or flat out willful ignorance is.
I heard Clarrett was the best behaved prisoner in cell block D. What a stand up guy.
where do you come up with this drivel? it's not the fact that tressel recruited the tat5. it's what he allowed them to do while on campus and what he did to cover it up. for all we know, osu offered pryor improper benefits (or hinted at them) and RR didn't, making TPs school of choice an easy one for him.
also, the "tone at the top" obviously didn't exist at osu, else all of the guys wouldn't think they could get away with the volume of violations. there are now dozens of players accused (and counting). hell, any coach/school can have isolated incedents from "bad seeds", but the situation was obviously pervasive at osu...and ignored and/or covered up.
Okay, fair enough, but you are kind of ignoring the fact that RR wasn't able to land Pryor. The reason? Maybe RR wasn't willing to break the rules to get him. Maybe Pryor didn't even ask RR to break the rules. Either way, you can't be 100% certain that RR knew the kid was of poor character. Even if he DID know, he wouldn't be the first coach to take a chance on a kid knowing he'd have to keep his eyes/ears open. These are young kids...no doubt some of the ones who go astray seemed like fine kids when they were recruited.
Even more importantly, I'm sick of posters bringing up RR on every thread. Making all these comparisons is not productive or necessary. Bury the dead and move on.
I don't think recruiting a kid with a questionable past is nearly as bad as knowing about his violations while playing on your team and not doing a damn thing about it. Maybe RR would have straightened him out (or at least attempted to) instead of letting him do whatever he wanted.
Just a guess here but I would say that had TP come to UM there would not have been much starightening out to do. Odds are that he would have come to A2 with no expectation of the extras that he got from that school down south. RR got in trouble for too much practice time but there was never any question about any of the students receiving inappropriate benefits.
the whole thing came down to QC staff assiting with stretching which was approved by compliance. If they hadn't helped it wouldn't have been countable hours and they wouldn't have gone over.
and accepted their demands and recruiting kids and saying good luck kid are two entirely different things.
You realize that Rich recruited TP, but not Sarniak, right? That's the difference. Tressel and his whole staff werer recruiting Sarniak, including dinner the night before TP's official to UM. Sarniak has a factory in, what, Dublin? Right outside of OSU. He's a guy Tressel would be awfully comfortable with, a lot like the Phar Mor character from Youngstown by the sounds of things. I'm not an RR apologist like many here, but I guarantee you that RR made no promises of cars, women, tats or cash like Tres and Co. did with Sarniak -- certainly not after he had been hired at Michigan anyway (he also recruited Pryor to WVU before he took the job -- no idea whether they're dirty, but certainly not like OSU).
They won't even bother to recognize that it was really the tat-83 or tat-112. It's Pryors fault to them and poor innocent St. Tressel the Enabler walks on water.
I heard Mussburger saying how Tress just wanted to protect his kids from getting into trouble. Made him sound like the martyr. Did not however mention lying when he knew he was busted. nor any of the other things like autographing memobrilia for the tat-gaters.
Now they'll just have to rally around a true freshman QB. We know that story, and it's not always a happy one.
misquoted: he told reporters that the ice cream is "richer and creamer now than ever"
Beware the "us vs the world" mentality. It is a very strong force and I wouldn't want to face a pissed off and united OSU team. Although if they have a true freshman starting at QB, that might mitigate it somewhat.
and who's dirty first. For the next 3 months, and maybe longer, they'll all be viewing one another with uncertainty. Those who haven't cheated won't entirely trust those they suspect have; others will be accused when they haven't really done anything wrong. And from now until August, players will be intermittently called into the AD's / coach's office and dismissed or suspended for violations.
They can't move on until they clean house on players, and b/c of the evidence required, the OSU fanbase is a long way off from even that. This is an implosion that will get much worse, IME.
just like that old addage "how can you tell if a politcian is lying? if his lips are moving" 'How can you tell if a Buckeye is cheating? If he has a pulse"
...they will either be stronger and more united than ever, or they will already have imploded. If they drop a couple games early...well, cue the popcorn gifs.
As opposed to what? The non-pissed off, non-unified team that's been whooping our ass for the past decade? I'm willing to take my chances.
is that because there's going to be so much attention paid to free benefits Zach can't even go to Taco Bell to ask Justin to hook him up with a free burrito supreme or something....
Alas, what ever happened to family values?
tacogate. Gold pants for burrito supremes! Call the Columbus Dispatch!
Wow, I literally laughed out loud. You sir deserve +10 for this post,
Braxton Miller is their starting QB for the season?
New coach, new QB, new sanctions ... a lot of news for OSU.
Not speculating, just copying and pasting.
all I see are 3 boxes with red x's in them
Blue question marks
Maybe there won't be three boxes with red x's in them. But if there are, he'll look like a genius of a prognosticator.
Maybe there will be a double post by me, and he'll look silly. (as will I)
How much does a tattoo like that cost? $500? It's pretty big and looks pretty nice (for something so vile)...
I mean for a normal person not a tsio player.
just one small pair of pants not big enough for a G.I. Joe action figure. Or $600 in real money.
the everybody transfers but Braxton & 2 OL scenario.
Looks vunerable to a blitz from the left to me. For that matter, the right or up-the-middle too.
are OHIO STATE'S DEFENSIVE ALIGNMENT after tat-gate.
It'd be hilarious to see him transfer after an extravagant tattoo like that...order the wrecking balm now....
is simply an emotional response. This is nothing to be taken from what any tsio person says right now .... its only been just over 24 hours since the "fall".
Don't eat all your popcorn yet, because this is just the start. NCAA gets to speak in August and between now and then I would be very surprised if there isn't tons more "stench" uncovered .... with "cargate" really starting to simmer right now and this too will explode in their face !!! C'mon the car dealers signed statements that all car deals were approved by the "university" .... wha, wha ??
My gut tells me AD Smith is gone by the spring of 2012, with the Board of Trustees removing President Gee (remember his comments on Auburn and the "hope tressel doesn't fire me" quote) shortly thereafter. I firmly believe that tressel is the fall guy ... that in fact, he did report this to Smith and that the 2 of them conspired to defraud the public. tressel is probably the "ring-leader" because they were able walk away unscathed from the Clarett debacle, so they thought they could do the same with this.
I also doubt that Posey, Herron and Pryor ever play another game for tsio. Posey and Herron will go to the NFL (if there is a season) and Pryor will never ever again enjoy what he had .... his "15 minutes of fame" is almost over. Too bad, cuz this kid got bad advice and his coach let him do whatever ... and its gonna cost him in a HUGE way.
This is going to be THE newest definition of Institutional Lack of Control ... and the NCAA knows it and the shit-storm hasn't even really started yet .....
So far SMU is still worse, but it's looking bad.
With the departure of TP, Boom, Posey. The Si article also brought up defensive back C.J. Barnett, linebacker Dorian Bell, running back Jaamal Berry, running back Bo DeLande, defensive back Zach Domicone, linebacker Storm Klein, linebacker Etienne Sabino, defensive tackle John Simon and defensive end Nathan Williams. I know Sabino is penciled in as the starting MLB and Bell is suspended, not sure on the rest (except it would hurt depth obviously) IF they take the UNC route and suspend these guys they really have to gut the roster of starters. Keep digging and they may have to have an open campus tryout.
already got kicked off the team
I'll wait by my phone for Luke Fickell to call me. Oh, I heard the NCAA is checking Luke's background. They found some uppaid parking tickets from the OSU police. Folks, I think he's toast!!
I was about to make a flip comment that the Buckeyes will be lucky to retain their cheerleaders by September with all the likely departing players, A.D. etc. But honestly Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, etc. have deep benches of talent. Ohio State attracts talent every year just like we do. So there will be plenty of fill ins come August. It's just that they will field a team with some inexperienced players. And Michigan will have a decidedly more experienced team and a new coach. Michigan will undoubtedly beat the wounded Buckeyes and probably pretty badly but I realistically don't expect Ohio State to put a completely embarrassing junior grade team on the field this year. They still will have talent returning and, unlike Brady, Fickell has been with the Buckeyes before this year. Oh, and these kids who play for Ohio State and Michigan, let's be honest, aren't all playing because their hearts are tattoo'd (you'll pardon the reference) with an "M" or Block O. It's because they want to make a bundle of dough in the NFL. And the only way for them to cash in on their talent is by strapping on a winged helmet or a scarlet jersey. There are some exceptions but for the most part these kids are just passing through.
We are witnessing the destruction of the Ohio State Buckeye machine in slow motion. And it likely will not end with Tressel and Pryor. I expect the AD Smith to be jetissoned. Hell, it may even get to the point where Gordy Gee gets the ziggy. Oh, what fun!! Next I figure as long as the NCAA goons are hanging around Columbus dismantling the OSU football program to the point where they'll be an equal match perhaps for Lahser High School varsity competition, I expect they may want to take a look at the basketball program too. If wishes come true Ohio State will not be a contender in the Big Ten conference for decades. Or perhaps Ohio State should be banned from the conference altogether. Do we really need a nest of thieves and rules breakers in the conference? The Big Ten rivalry could easily become U-M and Nebraska going forward.
We need Ohio State.
And before I get negged, the fates of Michigan and OSU are far too intertwined for one to be pushed off a cliff and the other to not go down too or feel a part of the fall.
Remember, being a part of the Michigan-Ohio State Rivalry is one of our huge selling points in recruiting. Taking away that or minimizing due to the 'Death' of OSU football would would be like taking away the winged helmet or the band ceasing to play the Victors.
Bottom line is, M and OSU are far too interdependent to have one go down and have it good for the other program.
And Michigan-Nebraska being the new rivalry is a laughable statement. There will never be another game like Michigan-Ohio State. Only the Iron Bowl comes close and still pales in comparison to The Game.
Ohio State is helpful not just to Michigan, but also to the entire conference. Ohio State is one of the marquee television teams, and the Big Ten shares TV revenue. Ohio State travels well to bowls, and the Big Ten shares bowl revenue. The Big Ten also shares gate revenue, and Ohio State has one of the larger stadiums, which (like Michigan) they practically always sell out.
The right penalties will leave Ohio State hobbled for a number of years, but still able to bring in the revenue in which the other Big Ten teams share. Obviously, a bowl ban is in play, but the other sources, like TV money and gate receipts, should be preserved. The extreme case — the death penalty (which is highly unlikely) — would leave the Big Ten unable to stage its lucrative championship game.
In what way would NCAA penalties for OSU harm those revenue sources?
1. Big Ten television revenue relates either to rights deals negotiated with ESPN/ABC with a set annual payout to the conference or to the BTN, which draws revenue largely from cable charges in the Big Ten footprints. I guess a bad OSU could lead to lower ratings on the BTN and thus lower ad rates, but that's a paltry part of the BTN's revenue. I guess a television ban would harm that revenue, but the NCAA hasn't handed down a tv ban since 1996, and such a punishment is about as likely as the death penalty.
2. The conference bowl revenue isn't determined by bowl travel. Bowl travel obviously offsets the obligatory tickets/hotel rooms that need to be purchased, but I think those charges are absorbed by the universities, not by the conference. The best case is that OSU probations would prevent the Big 10 from gaining a 2nd BCS participant, but the conference will get that more years than not.
3. OSU is still going to sell out every game.
I really don't see OSU probation having particularly negative financial effects for the conference, especially if it's perceived as a temporary downturn.
The fact that Ohio State and Michigan frequently sell out their respective stadiums. And those stadiums are huge. The Buckeye faithful will either flock to the stadium to support their team at home and away games. Your point is right. Ohio State does travel extremely well. Even in soft years. And that does translate into much needed revenue to the conference. I suspect Nebraska will be a huge financial benefit to the conference too. I reacted rather harshly to an earlier post and I apologize. We really do need to keep ALL the teams in this conference. It's ebb and flow. Some teams are better in some years than others. But the fans - - the true fans, and Ohio State, you have to admire them, are very true and will fill in ranks and support their wounded team. The fans (other than the asshole tattoo dude and some crooked car dealers in Columbus) will rally. And there will be fair weather fans (every team has them too) who will totally abandon the Buckeyes in their time of need. The Buckeyes nor the Wolverines need them. I guess we all need to take a step back and remember this is college sports. It's about football. It's a game.
Is a failure to moderate ... properly.
What the hell about this post or the one above it constitutes 'flamebait'? Are we all just confused about what flamebait really means?
F@*#ing agreed. I can't tell you how many posts I see downvoted for no good reason.
Stop downvoting just cause you don't agree or dislike what someone has to say. That's stuff for RCMB. Here we like to have intelligent conversations which is dependent on different viewpoints.
Everyone with sense.
That's crap!! We DON'T need an Ohio State - Michigan rivalry in the conference. Who gives a crap that this so-called rivalry has been going on for a long time? We start another rivalry. I'm for drumming Ohio State out of the Big Ten right now - - in the midst of all this crap. They deserve it. They can join another conference befitting their wicked ways. Perhaps the SEC. Perfect fit. The recent rivalry has been a joke anyway with the Buckeyes drubbing Michigan for the last seven years. Where is the enjoyment in THAT!? And it's likely to be a matchup of a crap Ohio State team that wanders into Ann Arbor in November. I feel sorry for those guys. Because they will likely be the only survivors of this shitstorm in Columbus (translation: perhaps the only kids who didn't do anything wrong - certainly there will be SOME innocents). They will get hammered for four quarters by a Wolverine team who have been waiting for years for some payback. And those Ohio State kids will be the sacrificial lambs. I almost feel sorta sorry for them. But this rivalry is b.s. anymore. It won't be a competitive match this year either. Time to move on.
Banning the 2011-2015 Buckeyes from going to bowl game will be like banning them from flying on the Concorde. The Buckeyes will not win more than four game per season for the next four years. They'll be lucky to have enough folks to have cheerleaders. They are toast and will be for a very long time. They will be on a competitive equal with a decent junior college team. What fun. Ain't this fun? Crap. I hope the NCAA folks don't look too closely in Ann Arbor anytime soon. Oh, they have to investigate the OSU basketball team. Forgot.
The Buckeyes will not win more than four game per season for the next four years.
We are talking about Ohio State, aren't we? They've recruited a lot of talent the past few years. It won't all transfer out.
The problem with all of these allegations is that when we beat OSU we will beat a lower version of the program. I wanted Hoke and Co. to beat them where they have been over the last 9 years. Now, a win is a win and I understand that but I want to see victories like we saw in the 90's when both schools were high performers. Michigan needs that school and that school needs Michigan. So does college football and so does the B1G.
This is my first post. Be kind. I've been a long time follower of this site for over 4 years.
I hope you're patient. Because the old days of tough Ohio State teams will be a very long way off in the future. When the NCAA finishes with Ohio State we're going to see a very, very dminished team. That's fine. Remember the days of John Cooper? Did you not enjoy clobbering old John every year? Those wonderful days are about to be replayed. Now, what this does to this so-called rivalry is another question. A win is a win. It'll be fun. Have a beer.
I won't take anything away from the Wolverine team Hoke will field this year. But it's anything but a forgone conclusion that Michigan would defeat Ohio State in November had all this shitstorm taken place in Columbus. If Ohio State was still intact with Tressel and Pryor (so far I think he's still there . . . for now) and the other tattoo'd dimwits it would be a pretty good team. But, we won't have to worry about it now. Quite frankly it may be a pretty entertaining match up. I personally don't believe it benefits the conference when one team of the other to dominate this rivalry year after year. Yeah, it's great for bragging rights and all that and it helps recruiting for the dominating team. But it hurts, I think, in viewership. Forgive me if I confess I miss the days when it was rare that either Ohio State or Michigan would win more than three consecutive meetings. And it was also rare that the final score was more than 14 points. Those were great games. I'll close now. The nurse is coming with my milk and cookies and then my nap.
And what kind of car does Boren drive?
a Yugo with a snowplow attached . . .
And a small illegal alien in the back constantly making delicous tacos and burritos.
If Boren is drivng a Yugo then how does he haul all of those twinkies???????
Where were all of these "honorable" men when T.P. & Co. were out and about in their cars, getting full sleeves and raiding the equipment room? Spielman said that if there was any "leadership" on the team, they'd have straightened these guys out.
Note to Chris: That only works if you assume that the upperclassmen on the team weren't also on the take. Considering that this whole mess is alleged to have gone back to 2002, what are the odds of that?
comments bug me alot. This implys major, major coverup from the players.
Yeah, it would have been nice for leaders on the team to call out what they saw... but to who? Think about it. They would likely have known that the coaches were just fine with what was going on. While I think it would be great for a kid to stand up and call out a coach for doing wrong, in reality I just don't see it happening.
Spielman's take was that it could have been dealt with within the team, not involving the coaches (or at least minimally). But, you raise a good point: there was no where to go if the coaches had to get involved or if the "one good cop in a bad town" wanted to speak up.
If I were an innocent football player for OSU (I know it's not possible, just play along) I'm gone. I'm looking for my school this week and will be getting there as soon as possible. You go to OSU to win and now for the remainder of your career, it's highly unlikely you will. I would certainly be pissed at my teammates who were taking cars and selling stuff but most of my madness would be credited to the staff for letting it go on.
the player has any moral compass. At OSU you are a rock star whether you are a star player or human tackling dummy.
If your dream growing up playing football for 18 years was to be a buckeye (or wolverine or whatever) you are that in your heart, through and through. A lot of kids at osu are this and don't care about bowl games or drafts. Also, you stay you get to play in front of 100,000 fans every week and in sports beat rivalry. And you are going to give that up to go somewhere else?
said he'd fight TP on ESPN if he were on the team. He looked like he meant it too.
Randy Moss vs Howie Long thing. That was hilarious. Awesome defensive legend vs punkass younger offensive player
I know he is a complete schmuck, but are all of these players really expecting us to believe that their hand was not in the cookie jar? Are they expecting us to believe that they had no knowledge of TP's 8 car garage? Or that they weren't at all questioning how many their teammates had the money for elaborate tatoos or sports cars? Gimme a break. If they are so pissed off, maybe they should have done something about it when it was happening in front of their nose. If it was a select few that were secretive about it, I could understand the gripe, but seriously? What a bunch of bums.
and beat Michigan, how they get there never really matters to them.
these separate, "other players" are stepping forward after finally grow a set of balls to publicly state just how frustrated and angry they are at the blatant mistakes committed by their teammates. Did they say anything when they saw their teammates parking brand new vehicles at the Woody Hayes?
The other big clue would have been the re-instatement of Pryor and the other dolts to play in the Sugar Bowl. The other players should have effing revolted. Tressel should have lowered the boom on those dumbasses in the first place and ripped them out of the starting lineup for the Sugar Bowl even if it meant getting beat by Petrino and Mallett.
That would have been the correct, fair and honorable thing to do.
But it's OSU. And because they couldn't go for three.
there is something troubling in your comment suggesting someone should be fair and honorable when going up against arkansas...
I can't wait until everyone tranfers because of a lack of family values :)
I'm waiting for the riots to start.