Stephen Collier from Georgia committed to Ohio State on Friday.
Stephen Collier from Georgia committed to Ohio State on Friday.
Yes, he is a 2 star with a not so impressive offer sheet. But let's keep the "LOL nice pick up URbz!" to a minimum please? They got him the same way we got Channing Stribling.
The same way we got Channing Stribling? You mean taking a a guy at a position which we already had a lot of highly rated commitments both that season and the season before? Thanks for the 11warriors logic.
Under the radar 2 star offered based on a nice camp performance. Yeah, you're right, not similar at all.
I don't mean to get technical here, well...maybe I do, but Channing Stribling was a three star on both scout and rivals. His offer list was unimpressive but I'm not sure the situations are the same at all. The only thing that is similar is that they both got offers after camp performances, which can probably be said of a lot of kids no matter where they are ranked.
Stribling may have ended up a 3 star, but I'm pretty sure when he was offered/committed he was a 2 star.
Anyway, what I said was we got him the same way. Which we did. I didn't say anything about who we already had in the current class and previous class.
Coaches saw him at camp, liked what they saw, and offered. Same as Collier.
Stribling was actually offered at camp. Collier was offered after camp after the Buckeyes struck out with higher priority guys.
Disagree. Could they both be lesser known players that develop, possibly, but there the similarity ends. I have been following their QB search quite closely. They got him as the 6th or 7th option after several others had turned them down for or favored other schools (Watson, Heard, Allen, Harris, Kizer, Darlington, Peavey). His offer didn’t even exist until the last two made their decisions. Stribling was offered long before we got bypassed by other DBs last year. Also, as I remember, a vocal group of us were worried that he’d use a spot a higher rated DB would need.
came from Butler high school,one of the top schools in North Carolina.
Did he have a Michigan offer? If not, don't care.
Yes, because every individual college football team exists in a vacuum, and the level and depth of talent at our chief rival and perennial conference competitor has zero bearing on the outlook for our program...
That makes sense if your favorite game of the year is the spring game
Well if they offered him, they must see something in him that a lot of other schools don't. Somewhat like Channing Stribling with us. Maybe he's just got a ridiculous upside but needs a lot of fine-tuning.
Guess we'll find out sooner or later.
OSU was turned down by a whole bunch of QB prospects before they got Collier. Collier and Stribling are alike in that they both had weak offer lists and were lowly rated before they committed. Beyond that, there are some real differences.
Not to argue, but what are the real differences? We whiffed on a lot of higher rated CBs before taking Stribling too.
Well, one of them plays QB and the other plays CB. That seems like a pretty big difference to me.
I doubt he is gonna take a kid that has no chance of being a contributer 6 months before signing day.
Good recruiters at good programs have to settle for lesser players all of the time. Actually, it happens to everyone every year. Saying someone is a good recruiter so he wouldn't settle for someone, regardless of the time of year, ignores reality. QB's have been flying off the board for a while this year and at some point everyone needs a body on the roster.
The guy could contribute and he could be good. Let's not pretend there isn't a hint of desperation though.
Sorry. I should have said more in the original post.
To start, my memory of the Stribling offer is that a lot of people were upset because it seemed like we had a good shot with a lot of other elite prospects (even if a couple of kids, like a Kendall Fuller, might have been gone). The worry was that he would take one of their spots. That's not the situation with this Collier kid. If he had been offered four months ago, I think you would have heard that reaction from OSU fans, but it's pretty clear at this point that their top options are off the table.
Also, I think there are important differences between CB and QB. You can miss at CB without terrible consequences, since you take a lot of them and guys can move from other positions to CB (safety, WR, etc.). Plus, CBs aren't as carefully scouted as QBs, so it's more likely that a good one (or 50) slips through the cracks. On top of that, QB is an extremely important position, and since you typically only take one per year, a couple of misses there can hurt badly. It's a dangerous position to take a lot of risks in recruiting.
Just my thoughts. Oh, and OSU sucks.
Not gonna lie, when I heard this yesterday I went over to 11w to check out there reaction and started doing my research. Kid seems pretty good. Not sure if he would ever beat out the kid from Texas in the 2013 class but he will probably be a bellomy like stop gap between 2 highly touted kids. Chances are OSU will probably land a highly rated kid next year. I imagine this kid doesn't mind going to Ohio state to play school.
This kid actually looks like a good fit for Meyer's offense. He had 33 TDs for a very good football team between passing and rushing, and he's 6'4". I wouldn't hate on this pickup at all.
Everyone wants to complian when their school lands a 2 star or below and laugh at other schools when they do the same. Look at this kids film and size ... he's a good fit for Meyer's system. Also, don't forget that Hoke just offered Brandon Watson and Freddy Canteen who had very impressive showings at the Michigan camp, despite their lackluster ranking.
Also, how many people are laughing at us now for taking guys like Jake Ryan, Ben Braden, Demond Morgan, and Thomas Gordon? These were all 3 star recruits ranked in the 30-50th for their position. And, it's almost a certainty that Collier gets bumped to a 3 * based on his OSU commitment alone, not to mention his film.
I totally agree with your point, but Canteen is a 4 star.
Canteen is a 3* to Scout, 247 and 247 composite, as 247 has Canteen the 103rd ranked WR overall and 22nd ranked player in Maryland
Fans should have absolutely no problem with kids that get offered at camps. I know sometimes it drives the star gazers crazy, but these are the kids that the coaches have had a chance to work with personally over the course of a couple days. That seems to me to be a lot more reliable than just watching someone's tape from 8 months ago.
Lloyd's best classes came mostly from camp offers. That's how they did it back in the day before mega-recrutiing services and Junior-year comitts. They held camps, observed who looked good, and gave them offers. It worked pretty well. It still works today although some kids will be off the board by the time you have the camp.
I agree. I'm all for camp offers. How'd WR, Collier was offered well after camp and only after Darlington (Neb) and Peavey (Arkansas) both told Urban "No thanks." Maybe the kid can play, but I'm not sure he was in Urban's top 5 choices for the class. That being said, maybe he develops into a contributor...time will tell.
*however. God I hate typing on my iPhone.
But let's not say its the same thing as Canteen and Speight... Both are rated 4* on one site
Recruiting ratings are such a crap shoot. I love the fact that we are cleaning up on the rankings, and I think it gives you a better idea of talent levels. I think the biggest thing for people is a passion for the university and team that they are playing for. I will take a 2 star with slightly less physical abilities that loves my university over a 5 star player who doesnt care that much about the school and is just looking for a paycheck. He has good measurables and I'm not familiar with Georgia high schools, but maybe the competition is lacking, or he comes from a small school.
Stribling plays CB..Collier is a QB and a QB touches the ball every play so that alone makes it hard to compare..Both need redshirts and time to develope..I think UM and OSU would be happy to get 2 starting seasons out of the two guys..and that is basically what these type of recruits are..Luckily i think both programs are in position to be able to let these kids grow into players...Both schools are going to have talent period
Well, it'll be cool if Stribling touches the ball on every defensive play too, lol
He "ain't coming to play SCHOOL" like the QB they took in 2012 I'm guessing?
either you generally except that rating system are sound and a good reflection of talent or you dismiss them as nothing more than a guess but you can't have it both ways.
We live in a world of shades of grey.
The rankings are data points. The camps are data points the coaches can use to make an informed decision.
We'll flnd out over time who had it right.
Or you accept that the rating system isn't perfect.
but not set in stone. Plenty of 3 stars blow up, and plenty of five stars flame out. It's just on average, teams tend to do better with higher rated players.
Yes, it's just like the odds on Vegas slot machines. If you play 1,000 times, you will lose money. But you can win on any individual play.
In general 4 and 5 stars correlate with team success. But any individual recruit may turn out differently.
Actually I have read a lot of pieces that show 5 stars generally don't flame out. They usually become at least average college level football players. Yes there are exceptions but their window of probabilities is less than 2-4 stars. But there are generally only 30-40 of them a year so it is a small sample size. The 5 doesnt mean they will be a star but generally sets a decent floor MOST of the time.
As for 4s, 3s, and 2s, frankly throw then all in a pot and let them wash out - you just never know. The floors AND ceilings are immense for this group. The #1 NFL pick 2 months ago was a 2 star and of course we all have tons of anecdotal evidence to this. So to your larger point I agree - too much star gazing, either you have a good evalutator of talent in your coaching staff or you don't.
Of course just loading up solely on 5s, and or getting the #1 and #2 players in the country in a class - which no one ever does or ever has a chance to (errrr...) increases your probability of landing talent across the board. Again something like landing the #1, #2 and potentially 3 of the top 5 in the country is not something any coaching staff could do, I am just speaking in a theoretical sense.
This is really no different than us takign Wilton Speight. If the coaches like what they see and they offer, it should be good enough for a fanbase.
Although I generally agree with your overarching point, Sepight was Michigan's first choice. Collier was kind of a Plan B recruit for OSU (or maybe Plan D or E).
plan C or D for Ohio. I have no problem with an under the radar guy going to camp and earning a offer.
Plan D or E. They had their sites on other guys like Barker, Kizer, Darlington, Harris. Had they been able to get any one of them to commit then no Collier offer.
But it's not like the recruiting services somehow get to put a hard lid on talent during a kid's junior year. Other guys turn up, or guys that were meh blow up.
When you are Ohio State or Michigan your Plan D or E guys can still be very good.
OSU didn't offer Kizer and Darlington didn't want to camp. They offered Collier while Harris was still available, so it seems natural to assume they either liked Collier better or they'll take two QBs.
Either way, getting an Elite 11 finalist as your plan C or D isn't a bad way to go.
Not sure what Darlington not wanting to camp has to do with it as they already had extended him an offer and he just decided Neb was better for him. Didn’t offer Kizer because they were still after available Harris, Ulmer, Darlington, Allen, and Peavey. Kizer decided not to wait on them and took the ND offer he had on the table. And with Harris they are not close to being a leading contender so they see they have a strong possibility of being a “bridesmaid” again.
Yep, not camping strongly suggests he'd rather go someplace else.
There are offers and there are "offers". An "offer" being come to camp and we'll talk. That's just how it's done, especially with recruits that aren't close to your school or ones you've never seen camp before.
They could have waited to offer Collier. It's not like he was going to commit any where before Harris. Like I said above, they either liked him more, or they are willing to take both (doubtful).
Now you are sounding like those boys down south and their non-committable offers. I have two relatives at major D1 programs and both think that line by fans is one of the biggest crocks there is. When you make an offer to a recruit you lay it all out for them, no grey areas, no small-print. You may offer with some contingencies, but if you value your integrity there is no hedging that isn’t known by both parties. If so, your word is just trash and HS coaches will tell their recruits such. I guarantee you Urban and his people are not going to pull that.
What did happen is they offered several and were rebuffed. They thought they had Kizer in the hole, but he decided not to wait around and possibly get left behind and took the best offer he had firm. Urban then offered Collier after being rebuffed again and didn’t want the same thing to happen that happened with Kizer. Would they take Harris if he decided in their favor, darn tootin’, but Collier is their sure thing. Not saying he may not develop but he is their port in the storm for this year. However, Harris is also not going to burn any bridges or upset any specific fan-base either.