Appears a bit more complicated than your classification of him as a "cheater" who paid players. Got any more details?
Appears a bit more complicated than your classification of him as a "cheater" who paid players. Got any more details?
from your link:
"It would probably surprise many in the Buckeye Nation to know that Woody Hayes and his program were hit with a one-year probation by the Big Ten back in 1956. The reason? Several members of the football team were being paid for jobs despite the fact they were not showing up to work while others were receiving money directly from the coach himself."
If you replaced Woody Hayes with Jim Tressel, what do you think people would be saying?
There are plenty of other "rumors", but I won't go into them since they're mostly hearsay. Needless to say, big time football "back in the day" was a very dirty business. Don't think for a second that SMU invented big time cheating.
Ok, where's your data on Woody? Cite a reference or a fact that backs up your claim that he was "dirty".
you can google it. "woody 1956 ohio state probation"
Woody paid players for work they didn't do. OSU was banned from the Rose Bowl that year.
Says that Woody gave players $400 out of his own pocket annually over a 5 year period. I think he was taking care of them, not paying them to come to OSU.
“A recruit (for Ohio State football) can count on some financial help from Hayes if he is ‘in need.’ Woody insists he never forks up for a luxury … but it’s certainly also true that he makes sure he won’t lose any valuable men by financial default.”
During the 10-week investigation by the Big Ten – the NCAA never got involved – Hayes admitted he gave players money from his personal funds, but the coach steadfastly refused to name any player to whom he gave the money. He insisted his reasoning was not because he feared any penalty or sanction, saying he would not name names because he feared the players involved would suffer public embarrassment.
that's still called cheating, no matter how noble you think he is.
LOL...my mother was a student at Ohio in the early to mid-60s..I've stated on this site before, the football players actually would pass around the answers to tests in the middle of an ongoing exam. Is that a direct link to Woody, or a lack of institutional control dating back decades. Either way, Ohio has been cheating for a good long time.
if OSU didn't get a year or two of postseason suspension. After what they pulled to ensure Pryor and co. got to play in last year's Sugar Bowl, I would think the bare minimum would be two years.
I'm guessing 10 scholarships and a two year bowl ban.
upsets me. It's people like you who make rational statements, briefly make me have faith in humanity, then swiftly kick me in the nuts while saying "PSYCHE!" in a Bart Simpson voice.
they let them all play in the bowl last year, which was disgusting... made a joke of the Big Ten/NCAA. Months later we find all this shit out. I would EXPECT a 1yr bowl ban. TSIO owes College Football a bowl game. 1yr bowl ban and 10 schollies 2yes prob.
Holy shit this is really happening?
Was listening to the Dp show this morning and they had a guy who works in Ohio on. He thinks Ohio will get 1 year bowl ban and 10 scholly's gone. But we will c.
97.1 in Columbus was talking last week and they were saying that Ohio fans should be very cautious on this topic because they actually think there is a chance they pay the piper in full.
Because [your] spelling incorrectly.
with Urban Meyer in the middle. Cheaters are going to cheat. The NCAA will show them the way. No new sanctions. Just a big love in.
to my stomach. I just KNOW nothing is going to happen. The NCAA is the biggest joke of a governing body in the USA. The way they hand out punishment has never made sense. Their handling of the Auburn/Newton case is just obserd. They gave every kid/parent/university in the country an open door for parents to pimp their kids out and claim, "poor little Cam never knew".
The only real work they did was on USC and OSU basically does the exact same thing, so they should get the same thing. But something tells me it isn't going to happen!
unhappy easter :(
Instead of taking away scholarships, the NCAA will give OSU a few extra, you know, because they were playing at a deficit this year with so many ineligible players. It's only fair. Oh, and at the NCAA's request and with their blessing, the newest OSU trainer hired will be a tatoo artist and assistant AD will be a car dealer.
This is from SI, my apologies in case this has been already posted.
This makes my blood boil!!! I know i should be solid in the fact we have Hoke, but this is a circus and it makes me FUCKING angry that their self imposed sanctions are good enough.
is for bad things to happen to that school in Ohio. Please oh please Santa (who's as likely to punish Ohio as the NCAA)!
I'm guessing the NCAA doesn't even slap their wrist. Everyone is in love with Urban. The NCAA won't want to punish him. Again I'm guessing he would have never taken the job if he knew the suckeyes were going to be on probation and lose a bunch of scholarships. I agree with above comment that if the NCAA does nothing Michigan ignore previous agreement and put the basketball banners back up. Screw 'em.
Hoke likes to talk about what football sounds like. What will the Ohio sanctions sound like? I can hope for the sound of whupknots being raised and piteous moaning. I suspect it will be the sound of mild slapping on the wrists.
Can someone give me a rational explanation how OSU can or will avoid significant punishment? If OSU skates, is gift-givng now allowed? What are we missing here? What is the NCAA's reasoning?
a hybrid of "this was a failure of Jim Tressel, rather than the University, and he's been fired" and "it was reasonable for school officials to not know the extent of what was going on" (a variation on the Cam Newton reasoning).
I think the Failure to monitor charge that they recieved last month had nothing to do with the cheating vest. After Ohio learn of the Failure to monitor is when they self imposed the scholarship reductions.
The reasoning for the NCAA to say they have punished themselves enough is the fact that they "addressed" all the allegations. What a joke. "Failure to Monitor"= 5 Scholarships over 5 years.
Did not Dr. Redenbacher come out and say when Tressel resigned that it was Tressel's decision and Tressel's decision alone? Did he not first say OSU did not pressure Tressel in to resigning? But they can change their story--and get credit for it--so that the brunt of the blame goes to Tressel and OSU walks. How can the NCAA believe the "Tressel was fired" line when their own statements contradict that assertion?
"Rational explanation" and "NCAA" don't go hand in hand...
The reason will be that they couldn't interview the people mentioned in the Yahoo article, and therefore, the more serious allegations couldn't be proven. Then it just comes down to a handful of people who exchanged tattoos for memorabilia, with the major known malefactors (Pryor & Tressel) already punished/gone. I still can't believe there was never a finding of loss of institutional control, which was the indicator that NCAA wouldn't go after OSU seriously.
I linked to the NY Times article in the other thread which states it's fairly well established that the NCAA has no ability to go after serious violations.
What the hell type punishment is that?!?!! No one cares about 2010. Could you imagine if you were punishing your 6 year old on December 23rd for getting a tat or something? Your not going to say, "son, I'm taking away the toy I got you LASTChristmas, you know the one in the basement that you haven't played with since December 30th.". You take away his presents under the tree damn it. The NCAA is a bunch of crooks.
My speculation......nothing will happen. Three cheers for slaps on the wrist. NCAA is a joke.
OSU has shown the blueprint for stonewalling the NCAA. Deny everything until proven and self report the minimum. Scapegoat the coach and separate to protect institution. Force NCAA to investigate and punish which they won't.
Anything less than one year bowl ban, 15 scholarships over 3 years, and 4 years probation is a crime. They deserve more but based on what they've been charged with they can't be punished further. Once a person is charged with manslaughter, you can't punish them as if they committed murder even though they got away with murder.
Isn't it obvious? I think Meyer will punish the NCAA, not the other way around. But seriously, I think the writing was on the wall for a weak punishment when the NCAA didn't levy the most serious charge against tsio.
I thought Urban told the recruits nothing else will be handed down from the NCAA?
to stage a multi-million dollar defense, with attorneys, witnesses and 8 1/2 x 11 color glossy photos of the scene of the crime. tsi0 had to travel to a conference room in Columbus?
No sauce with your McNuggets today, and don't let us catch you again.
bend over ohio and prepared to get spanked with a light pink featherduster
We knew what the penalty would be as soon as they fired tressel. Once it became obvious that they were pinning the whole thing on Tressel (and he bent over for it) we knew the NCAA wouldn't really do anything. Further evidence of the outcome was when they were only charged with failure to monitor and not lack of institutional control.
Here's a question though...can the NCAA decide it won't tolerate cooperation stonewalling? Can they say "You won't give us everything we need for a full investigation so we're going to impose an automatic 5-scholarship reduction and post-season ban for the next two years." ? That seems like reasonable punishment. Just institute an automatic sanction for not cooperating to their satisfaction. Can they not do this? or is there too much of a lawsuit risk?
Isn't that basically what happened to USC? Punishment because they wouldn't cooperate? That seems like a reasonable precedent to follow. OSU won't risk a lawsuit though, because then the NCAA would be able to use court-sanctioned discovery to obtain information that they had no authority to request otherwise.
My point is that they could institute a clear and precise penalty. Don't comply and you get this minimum penalty. Then they can adjust it based on what they do or don't find later on. I suppose the problem is that it seems reasonable and logical. Two words that aren't in the NCAA dictionary.
Yes, I would be in favor of your proposal. The problems are that (1) when you're already relying on the schools to self-report, with the idea that self-reporting may necessitate further investigation, chances are schools will start clamming up to avoid this further investigation and possible invoking of the non-compliance penalty; (2) when you have no real power that isn't delegated to you by the member schools, there's always a balancing factor of whether you've either overstepped (getting the member schools angry and revoking that authorization) or exposed yourself as being a powerless figurehead (thus necessitating your removal). I'm hoping that the trend of the last few years will force either a disbanding or restructuring of the NCAA.
After careful deliberation, head of NCAA Compliance Mark Emmert answered, "I'm just happy Gordon Gee didn't sanction us."
NCAAs history of looking the other way when it comes to OSU and Gene Smith/Gordon Gee good ol' boy network connections say the NCAA probably takes away scholarships and bowls from Michigan for OSU's cheating.
I suppose this depends on what the NCAA is punishing. If they're just handing down a punishment on the original Tat-5 coverup then I wouldn't expect much, now is about how long we expected that investigation to run. If they have an ongoing investigation for the new accusations then that might come later, or(like with USC) they know what happened but can't prove it and just punish them anyways then ill be dancing like a Detroit cop buying Faygo in a convenience store.
This isn't some great mystery. The charges are all in the 2 NOAs that Ohio State has received. No more, no less.
What didn't Stanford do?
I have no idea what that means.....carry on
It is all about money. Common, the story about Pryor and the other hooligans was out before last year's bowl game and the NCAA still allowed the players in question to play. Many people know that the NCAA is a joke, full of double standards, favoritism, nepotism. It's all about $$$ and taking care of your friends (Emmert and Smith have known each other for a VERY long time). Most sports writers know this, and many write about the hypocrisy that the NCAA is, however, they are all small fish. It would take an entity more powerful than the NCAA to shake things up. Good luck with that.
"It would take an entity more powerful than the NCAA to shake things up."
I'm having trouble coming up with an entity that wouldn't satisfy the prerequisite here....
until 3 and not try to act like I know what's gonna happen.
I fully expect a post from Brian, titled: "WELL, THAT HAPPENED..."