Fingers crossed, but given the NCAA's track record and recent developments my expectations are zero.
Ohio to Learn Official Sanctions at 3PM Today
Zero in terms of punishments. yes. However, everyone from OSU who was asked to be in attendence was given complimentary cans of soda and light snacks, courtesy of the NCAA.
Can somebody just investigate the NCAA? They are one shady organization. Schools like osu that are doing more than sleeping with them get off the hook all too often.
The consensus, including people with professional opinions, is that OSU will not receive a bowl ban. The other consesnsus, including people with professional opinions, is that it's bullshit.
Even if the NCAA receives tons and tons of hate mail, the verdict won't change. Which is unfortunate, because the next school that is not OSU that crosses some of the same lines will get hammered.
The only thing I can pretend to know here is that I am probably going to be either very pissed or very happy. I hope Ohio finally gets the punishment they escaped in the Maurice Clarett case, but can't help but think that cronyism will allow them to squeeze through yet another loophole.
Maybe they add 5 schollys to the top, but the pessimist in me says the NCAA considers a meh season and the loss of tressel 'adequate'. Which is complete crap.
USC fans are probably going to be upset as well. If USC complains too loudly, the NCAA response could leave Oregon as the next likely target. An NCAA smack down of another Pac-12 school could prove to be a very volatile situation.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I recall seeing somewhere on the interwebs that if the punishment levied doesn't reach a certain theshhold, the suits at USC are prepared to file a lawsuit against the NCAA, paperwork's ready and everything.
I actually hope this is the case. Until some well endowed individual or group goes after the NCAA, I don't expect a single thing to change moving forward. They're the house and we're just playing their tables.
Yeah, i read that this summer the president of usc and the commish of the pac-12 had already voiced their displeasure to mark emmert
the NCAA already punished them, denied their appeals, and clearly doesn't like/ care about USC.
Gee is friends with the infractions committee (wonder why OSU made him the higest paid University President?) and they will just ignore USC or deny their appeal.
By having Gee, OSU basically "paid" to cheat and get away with it. It is what it is.
The NCAA may care very much what USC says when they have a massive lawsuit levied on them.
are they going to say, look you punished us more then them? BFD, the NCAA just has to lay out the differences and claim that their committee is independent, blah, blah, blah... and that's it.
Plus, does USC really want to piss off the NCAA even more? Kiffin has to be up to his old tricks there.
I believe Ohio will get no further sanctions and USC, MIami etc. will do nothing because I can't think of a basis for a lawsuit against the NCAA based on treatment of two completely different fact situations.
If someone knows how a USC or Miami or any other third party with standing could sue the NCAA over this, I would be ALL EARs (lawyer here).
The NCAA tagged USC with "Failure to Promote an Atmosphere of Compliance" and "Failure to Monitor". They have an ironclad excuse for not hitting OSU as hard as they hit the Trojans. Given the fact that the allegations against OSU never included these two violations, it really should come as no surprise that the NCAA is probably going to let the Buckeyes off light.
Not to say that USC fans don't have a reason to be frustrated given the amount of publicity the OSU scandal has generated the past 9 months, but the media don't get to try and convict schools.... unless you're Michigan, of course.
There is a Failure to monitor charge
I forgot about that, which of course is what prompted their bullshit, self-imposed 5 scholarship reduction over 3 years.
Still, OSU not being saddled with Lack of Institutional Control will be the NCAA's "Get Out of Jail Free" card when USC starts crying foul and shouting, "Sue!!!"
You can ignore an appeal but you can't ignore a lawsuit
"Until some well endowed individual or group goes after the NCAA..."
[Santonio Holmes joke]
Well, when you consider that USC lost their coach and had a meh season (8-5), they still got hit pretty hard with penalties after that.
Merry Christmas to us?
I am betting OSU announces them on Christmas Eve or sometime with minimal news exposure.
they'll be able to talk their way out of when they self report their next 380 violations in the next 2 years.
Maybe add one or two schollie reduction, max.
That'll be al folks, nothing to see here, move along.
We'll see them on the field.
We will have more official NCAA sanctions for 12 extra minutes of stretching than tOSU gets for paying their players for over a decade. Book it.
but look at Troy Smith, Clarett, and that LB with long hair (I forgot his name, but the dude who was robbed of $5K cash from his dorm and reported it to the polics).
Add in that DB (or WR) that was cut and his saying that this was happening all of the time.
Oh, yeah there is also Tressel getting caught at YSU.
There are just as many people saying Sandusky is guilty as there have been about tOSU paying their players over the years since Tress was hired, but we assume Sandusky is guilty and we assume tOSU isn't? I don't understand.
Santonio Holmes was paid while he was there.
To be clear, the article claims he got paid by an agent (as well as players form about 20 other schools). Universities don't usually get in trouble for that, assuming they knew nothing of it (see Charles Woodson).
The fact that all of BRCE's comment have been moderated on this thread is embarassing, and shows homerism that we've manage to stave off on this site for a long time--one of the things that makes us different from everyone else.
All the guy is saying is that we really don't have evidence that OSU has been paying players and gaining a competitive advantage by doing it. He's right--we really don't know. The punishment they'll get will still likely be far too lenient for the bad acts that we do know they did, but you guys act like there's some incontrovertible evidence out there of years of wrongdoing. There isn't.
I don't think I've ever seen a comment of yours that wasnt a 0 or -1. Even on fluff stuff in the offseason or talking about cupcake teams like Eastern
I may be wrong but I assumed once you get negged enough the system automatically labels you a troll and your posts start at 0 and hidden.
I'm guessing the punishment will look something like this...
This thread is eerily similar to the one that came out the morning that USC got curbstomped by the NCAA...just sayin'.
If the OSU sanctions even approach what happened to USC, I will shed my clothes and streak through my place of employment. That being said, I am reasonably sure my job is safe. They are getting nothing more than a limp wristed slap on their wrist.
I don't know who you are or where you work but i am SO holding you to this.
Please don't. I can't handle that while eating my Whopper with cheese.
I work at a hospital. If anything, it would send you into v-fib.
Mark Emmert is going to offer his hindquarters in submission to Gordon Gee and Gene Smith for the inconvenience of making them worry about sanctions, and will offer to resign. Gee will mount Emmert ritualistically for a few moments, and then magnanimously allow Emmert to stay on, and all will be well.
I don't think Urban Meyer will be happy about Gee usurping his power like that.
As others noted, probably some additional scholarship reductions and probation. It won't be much, and it will piss everyone off but then we'll all get over it. And by unfortunate timing, nobody will get too worked up over it because (a) it is the week before the holidays, so people are in a good mood/leaving work, (b) the PSU story is so sickening that a couple of tattoos and payments are rightfully viewed as less vile, and (c) the bowl season is kicking off and the ESPN/NCAA midnset is to keep a prominent program off the front page.
At best, I could see a one-year bowl ban, which I always figured OSU would have just taken this year and then not even worried about it.
If this was Friday of this week, I'd probably assume the NCAA was allowing them extra scholarships to make up for the inconvenience.
this thing was coming out Thursday or Friday.
But in truth this is probably the worst timing for Ohio: people nationwide will go home for the holidays and agree on the testicle-less-ness of the NCAA, the cheating of Ohio, and comical nature of the lack of sanctions.
What the hell else are you going to talk about with your in-laws?
Whenever OSU gets off light, I hope we put the Fab 5 banners back up...
Man, I would REALLY love to see Brandon do that.
Yeah. In a ceremony featuring ALL five members. Brandon can give C-Web a hug at center court and publically announce, "Ahh, hell man. I guess its no big deal!"
As one of the "money makers" for NCAA anyone who believes that O$U will get anything more than their self imposed needs to come back to reality!! They are going to get off scott free....tressel will be scapegoat and Meyer will be proclaimed the savior of a program led awry by one man and his own deeds. USC...Miami...UNC will all gnash their teeth put on sackcloth and scream "NOT FAIR" but it will all fall on deaf ears. Sucks but it's the true and we all are going to get a huge bite of this s**t sandwhich!!
If you really think that "osu is one of the money makers" is the reason they'll get off light then please explain the usc situation.
Smith (or Gee? I can't keep the fuckers straight) is buddies with Emmert. That would be the one and only reason why osu gets off light.
The NCAA doesn't make money off of football. The conferences and teams do. That is, OSU football makes money for the B10 and OSU.
NCAA's revenue comes almost entirely from March Madness and the corresponding television contracts they've negotiated with CBS and other partners.
Ugh, I get so tired of people smugly posting this response to conflict-of-interest arguments regarding the NCAA and punishments. Is it that big of a mental leap to see how the health of big-sports colleges is in the direct interest of the NCAA as an organization? Dropping the hammer on OSU football may not have a direct and immediate financial consequence on the NCAA, but it represents a risk for them. How many scorned big-sports colleges like USC need to get crushed before their ADs start talking about alternative systems to the NCAA?
Your argument is very narrow-minded.
...but it cuts both ways. There's also an interest among member institutions in keeping things under control and maintaining at least the appearance of a level playing field.
....something more than a $50 fine and time served, but I am not all that hopeful right now that the punishment will be on the same scale as the crime. That being said, if for some reason the NCAA did the right thing this time, my mood would be much improved at 3:01 PM.
Lately, it seems like the NCAA cares when it doesn't know, and then when it knows, it doesn't exactly care.
the men of Troy lay down their own hammer against the NCAA. I am not sure on what specific legal grounds they could bring a case but it seems that if they got the book thrown at them and OSU skates away with a very minimal punishment there are some issues of equity. I feel it in my bones that OSU will get a slap on the wrist. Gentlemen, time to suit up.
almost everything about this. Except that the soldiers look like they are wearing Spartan helmets...
Ohio's choice not to use their old coaching staff to do recruiting is an important step in the right direction. The old staff is tainted by the allegations and misgivings. For Ohio to go ahead and use a new staff for official football buisness is a sign things are moving in the right direction.
So getting two coaching staffs is their reward? I expressly wish that Urban and new staff could not do anything until after bowl game and after todays annoucement.
Otherwise, OSU advantage.
that Fickel is not leaving. So they change head coaches ... but they lose nothing at the coaching level. If Fickel stays as DC - then tsio pulled another "fast one" over on the NCAA ... because the coach they "lost" is actually still on staff and out there recruiting.
tsio owns the NCAA ... and it is obvious for anyone to see.
this is something like the approach Ohio State took when the asked for permission to have two active coaching staffs.
I do not see how that is a punishment at all! Please explain yourself or STFU.
That is the weakest argument in the history of arguments.
... I wore my boots to school because it was snowing heavily. I forgot to bring my gym sneakers, so in gym class I had to run the obstacle course in my socks.
And because of that, you sit down to pee.
I asked this once before, but I am still trying to get my head around the losses of scholarship thing. If they lose 5 for 3 years, does that mean that instead of 85, they can only have 80 scholly players for 3 years? Then they can take as many kids as will bring them up to 80?
the 5 scholarship proposal worked as follows:
1st year--the entire program must be 3 scholarships under the NCAA limit, i.e. at 82
2nd year--the entire program must be 1 scholarships under the NCAA limit, i.e. at 84
3rd year--the entire program must be 1 scholarships under the NCAA limit, i.e. at 84
over 3 years, this seems pretty worthless of a reduction
this is a freaking joke. dammit.
Oh and thanks for your reply.
sucks to be the last deserving walk-on or 5th year senior in line at Ohio State the next three years.
I'd bet on these guys being the ones who did not partake in free tatoos, cars, cash for charitable appearances, and no-show jobs. What an effective punishment.
It's 5 over 3 years. that's part of what makes it such a joke. It's 3 schollys next year, then 1 then 1. So OSU said they'd only have 82, 84, 84 scholarship football players over the next 3 years. Boo hoo them.
Yea, if you go with the double rule, it should be closer to 30 over 3 years because they had 5 players taking benefits for 3. That's 15 scholarship-years, which doubles to 30. That's never going to happen, though.
They had 5 players taking benefits for a year that they knew about and covered up. That's, at minimum, five scholarship-years, which doubles to ten. Ten scholarships over three years, plus a show-cause on Tressel and vacated wins, should be the base level of punishment we are talking about. If the NCAA wants to add on additional penalties for the cover-up, including the "investigation" done prior to last year's Sugar Bowl, then great, but it's hard to justify less than a ten scholarship reduction.
The way I understand it they could use (for example) 83 next year, 83 the year after, and then 84 the third year...
the taste of their bitter rationalized tears from summer's swirling scandals was nothing compared with the sweet serum of season ending success
They "just hope that Gee doesn't sanction THEM!"
Plus 368,976,888 MGoPoints for this comment.
was opened when the NCAA looked the other way with Auburn and Cam Newton with little to no complaints around the college football world.
I don't expect much if anything to come down on TUO$.
12 months ago, if someone had said, "A school in the Big Ten with a house-hold name will have a scandle so invidious and dispicable, it will shred the schoo's reputation and send their future into a black hole" -- we'd have been, like, "wait--whaaa?--not us right?"
If you'd have said the same thing 4 months ago, we'd be like, "Yup! Take that, tSIO!"
And now, that statement is indeed true, but it's not tSIO. Even more unfathomably, it's taken down JoePa.
So, it seems whatever the fate of tSIO is today (read: they'll do nothing), it sort of doesn't matter anymore, does it?
The Wrist Slap Heard 'Round The World...
We either have Ohio get what they deserve, or USC threatens to blow up the NCAA. I am giddy with excitement!
While it's nice, it probably won't happen. USC has ground to stand on, but it could lead to investigation at Oregon, which I'm sure the PAC doesn't want
...I don't see why SC would mind if some air were let out of the Phil Knight empire in Eugene.
That is a good point, I bet they wouldn't mind if the North division became a joke in the next few years (cause without Oregon they have nothing compared to USC). The next few days should be intereseting to see how various groups react to this
I hope USC takes the NCAA on but does USC have a forum as good as "mgoblog"? I wonder if their "troops" have been alerted about this impending disaster.
Hypothetical set of penalties here:
OSU gets little more than what they have right now. A real slap on the wrist. Maybe a few more scholarships, longer probation, etc.
Tressel gets a HUGE Show-Cause (8 years or so? loss of all OSU retirement package? can the NCAA do this?). Smith gets a Show-Cause and is fired, hell even Gee is reprimanded like crazy.
What does the board think of punishments like that? One thing I didn't like about USC is I felt like it punished the kids and no one else. Bush kept his $$. Carrol fled for the NFL and kept everything. Any USC player was screwed. Personally I'd like to see the adults involved get punished, not necessarily the redshirt sophomore nobody who committed to Tressel last Feb. Well, I'd like to see the NCAA hammer OSU, but I'd like to see the adults get hammered too. Thoughts?
with what Tressel deserves. I guess I haven't kept informed enough on this to know why Smith is getting fired, did he get the info too?
The only coach the NCAA punished in the USC case got a one year show cause, I would hope this one is much longer.
There is no way the NCAA can do anything about Tressel's retirement package.
They're getting a fruit basket and a year-long membership to the Cheese of the Month Club.
If OSU=sanctions, and sanctions=2 year bowl ban
Then Brionte Dunn=visit Michigan
Dunn= Michigan visit + OSU - scholarship
Dunn=commit to Michigan
There won't be muppets.
the whole 'vacate' the season business. What ever happened toplain old forfeiting ?
Ohio State fans were laughing about this on Monday. They know what will happen and so do we.
"It will be hilarious to watch the tears of the Ohio State-haters, though. They will be glorious, so let those tears flow. So much faux-anger about 20 year olds getting discounted tattoos and a few hundred bucks -- I can't wait. And when that biblical flood of tears come -- and it will come, my friends -- here's what I propose be the official reaction of every Ohio State fan to the haters: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯."
and 759 days since OSU beat Michigan in football.
is killing me. Discounted tattos and a few hundred dollars paid to 20 year olds that knew better is only the flashpoint. The bigger part was the lying and the cover up by ohio officials. Yeah minimize the issue buckeyes so you can draw your ridankulous comparisons and rationalize why you should skate.
I find solace in the humor and wit on this board, especially since I know the NCAA will do nothing.
that OSU administrators and Tressel and all OSU enforcement officials will have to dig up this man:
and explain to him how they managed to destroy the legacy of academics and recruiting actual student athletes that he built from 1951-1978. After that explanation, I'm sure Woody will be saying the following to these moral degenerates:
I can't decide which bit of MGoRevisionist History is funnier, that Woody Hayes was "clean", or that USC wasn't guilty of hundreds of thousands of dollars of violations over many sports.
While I agree with the sentiment about Woody (although I think he personally would have bitchslapped an OSU player selling gold pants/B1G championship rings and would have pulled their scholarship right there) the links to USC aren't nearly as strong as the links to OSU, in football at least. It's much more like their basketball program.
In 1956, Woody got OSU put on probation for outright paying players. If that happened today, he would have been fired (back then, it was 1 year probation... how times have changed).
USC gave Bush $300k in extra benefits, Mayo another few thousand, had agents all over the football program (and Mayo's posse around the basketball program), had a coach dealing with agents, and even had the girls volleyball team get over $7000 in benefits(!).
USC is a lot more like UNC. UNC only involved one sport, but does get bonus points for some academic scandals.
(interestingly... if Woody did get fired in 1956, would Bo have become OSU's coach at some point?)
You misunderstood, I was agreeing with you about Woody, not other people. Your sentiment.
USC's football program didn't provide Bush's house, car, ect. The NCAA reasoned they "should have known" that agents unrelated to the school were paying Bush based on a single text message to an assistant several years ago. In comparison, you have Tressel personally covering up allegations, much more like the case with Mayo and the guidance counselor.
Appears a bit more complicated than your classification of him as a "cheater" who paid players. Got any more details?
from your link:
"It would probably surprise many in the Buckeye Nation to know that Woody Hayes and his program were hit with a one-year probation by the Big Ten back in 1956. The reason? Several members of the football team were being paid for jobs despite the fact they were not showing up to work while others were receiving money directly from the coach himself."
If you replaced Woody Hayes with Jim Tressel, what do you think people would be saying?
There are plenty of other "rumors", but I won't go into them since they're mostly hearsay. Needless to say, big time football "back in the day" was a very dirty business. Don't think for a second that SMU invented big time cheating.
Ok, where's your data on Woody? Cite a reference or a fact that backs up your claim that he was "dirty".
you can google it. "woody 1956 ohio state probation"
Woody paid players for work they didn't do. OSU was banned from the Rose Bowl that year.
Says that Woody gave players $400 out of his own pocket annually over a 5 year period. I think he was taking care of them, not paying them to come to OSU.
“A recruit (for Ohio State football) can count on some financial help from Hayes if he is ‘in need.’ Woody insists he never forks up for a luxury … but it’s certainly also true that he makes sure he won’t lose any valuable men by financial default.”
During the 10-week investigation by the Big Ten – the NCAA never got involved – Hayes admitted he gave players money from his personal funds, but the coach steadfastly refused to name any player to whom he gave the money. He insisted his reasoning was not because he feared any penalty or sanction, saying he would not name names because he feared the players involved would suffer public embarrassment.
that's still called cheating, no matter how noble you think he is.
LOL...my mother was a student at Ohio in the early to mid-60s..I've stated on this site before, the football players actually would pass around the answers to tests in the middle of an ongoing exam. Is that a direct link to Woody, or a lack of institutional control dating back decades. Either way, Ohio has been cheating for a good long time.
if OSU didn't get a year or two of postseason suspension. After what they pulled to ensure Pryor and co. got to play in last year's Sugar Bowl, I would think the bare minimum would be two years.
I'm guessing 10 scholarships and a two year bowl ban.
upsets me. It's people like you who make rational statements, briefly make me have faith in humanity, then swiftly kick me in the nuts while saying "PSYCHE!" in a Bart Simpson voice.
they let them all play in the bowl last year, which was disgusting... made a joke of the Big Ten/NCAA. Months later we find all this shit out. I would EXPECT a 1yr bowl ban. TSIO owes College Football a bowl game. 1yr bowl ban and 10 schollies 2yes prob.
Holy shit this is really happening?
Was listening to the Dp show this morning and they had a guy who works in Ohio on. He thinks Ohio will get 1 year bowl ban and 10 scholly's gone. But we will c.
97.1 in Columbus was talking last week and they were saying that Ohio fans should be very cautious on this topic because they actually think there is a chance they pay the piper in full.
Because [your] spelling incorrectly.
with Urban Meyer in the middle. Cheaters are going to cheat. The NCAA will show them the way. No new sanctions. Just a big love in.
to my stomach. I just KNOW nothing is going to happen. The NCAA is the biggest joke of a governing body in the USA. The way they hand out punishment has never made sense. Their handling of the Auburn/Newton case is just obserd. They gave every kid/parent/university in the country an open door for parents to pimp their kids out and claim, "poor little Cam never knew".
The only real work they did was on USC and OSU basically does the exact same thing, so they should get the same thing. But something tells me it isn't going to happen!
unhappy easter :(
Instead of taking away scholarships, the NCAA will give OSU a few extra, you know, because they were playing at a deficit this year with so many ineligible players. It's only fair. Oh, and at the NCAA's request and with their blessing, the newest OSU trainer hired will be a tatoo artist and assistant AD will be a car dealer.
This is from SI, my apologies in case this has been already posted.
This makes my blood boil!!! I know i should be solid in the fact we have Hoke, but this is a circus and it makes me FUCKING angry that their self imposed sanctions are good enough.
is for bad things to happen to that school in Ohio. Please oh please Santa (who's as likely to punish Ohio as the NCAA)!
I'm guessing the NCAA doesn't even slap their wrist. Everyone is in love with Urban. The NCAA won't want to punish him. Again I'm guessing he would have never taken the job if he knew the suckeyes were going to be on probation and lose a bunch of scholarships. I agree with above comment that if the NCAA does nothing Michigan ignore previous agreement and put the basketball banners back up. Screw 'em.
Hoke likes to talk about what football sounds like. What will the Ohio sanctions sound like? I can hope for the sound of whupknots being raised and piteous moaning. I suspect it will be the sound of mild slapping on the wrists.
Can someone give me a rational explanation how OSU can or will avoid significant punishment? If OSU skates, is gift-givng now allowed? What are we missing here? What is the NCAA's reasoning?
a hybrid of "this was a failure of Jim Tressel, rather than the University, and he's been fired" and "it was reasonable for school officials to not know the extent of what was going on" (a variation on the Cam Newton reasoning).
I think the Failure to monitor charge that they recieved last month had nothing to do with the cheating vest. After Ohio learn of the Failure to monitor is when they self imposed the scholarship reductions.
The reasoning for the NCAA to say they have punished themselves enough is the fact that they "addressed" all the allegations. What a joke. "Failure to Monitor"= 5 Scholarships over 5 years.
Did not Dr. Redenbacher come out and say when Tressel resigned that it was Tressel's decision and Tressel's decision alone? Did he not first say OSU did not pressure Tressel in to resigning? But they can change their story--and get credit for it--so that the brunt of the blame goes to Tressel and OSU walks. How can the NCAA believe the "Tressel was fired" line when their own statements contradict that assertion?
"Rational explanation" and "NCAA" don't go hand in hand...
The reason will be that they couldn't interview the people mentioned in the Yahoo article, and therefore, the more serious allegations couldn't be proven. Then it just comes down to a handful of people who exchanged tattoos for memorabilia, with the major known malefactors (Pryor & Tressel) already punished/gone. I still can't believe there was never a finding of loss of institutional control, which was the indicator that NCAA wouldn't go after OSU seriously.
I linked to the NY Times article in the other thread which states it's fairly well established that the NCAA has no ability to go after serious violations.
What the hell type punishment is that?!?!! No one cares about 2010. Could you imagine if you were punishing your 6 year old on December 23rd for getting a tat or something? Your not going to say, "son, I'm taking away the toy I got you LASTChristmas, you know the one in the basement that you haven't played with since December 30th.". You take away his presents under the tree damn it. The NCAA is a bunch of crooks.
My speculation......nothing will happen. Three cheers for slaps on the wrist. NCAA is a joke.
OSU has shown the blueprint for stonewalling the NCAA. Deny everything until proven and self report the minimum. Scapegoat the coach and separate to protect institution. Force NCAA to investigate and punish which they won't.
Anything less than one year bowl ban, 15 scholarships over 3 years, and 4 years probation is a crime. They deserve more but based on what they've been charged with they can't be punished further. Once a person is charged with manslaughter, you can't punish them as if they committed murder even though they got away with murder.
Isn't it obvious? I think Meyer will punish the NCAA, not the other way around. But seriously, I think the writing was on the wall for a weak punishment when the NCAA didn't levy the most serious charge against tsio.
I thought Urban told the recruits nothing else will be handed down from the NCAA?
to stage a multi-million dollar defense, with attorneys, witnesses and 8 1/2 x 11 color glossy photos of the scene of the crime. tsi0 had to travel to a conference room in Columbus?
No sauce with your McNuggets today, and don't let us catch you again.
bend over ohio and prepared to get spanked with a light pink featherduster