Officiating: IU Holding/False Starts/Targeting

Submitted by Bigku22 on

I don't blame officiating for any result, and don't want to be that guy.I believe bad officiating is something both sides have to deal with. However since we won I feel this can be more objective. There are thee points I wanted to discuss and gauge reaction. 

1) IU Offensive line holding. Indiana got called for holding one time in this game. (in the first half) I know their O line is very good and we got mauled up front. But in the 4Q and OT literally every Howard run to the outside, I watched the line, multiple cases where they were just grabbing our defenders, tackling, no calls. They set the edge on every outside run by grabbing our edge defender and not letting him outside. I saw coaches screaming for holding, and the broadcast mentioned it once. I guess we didn't get called for it either, officials just letting them play. Maybe im biased, have to review the game again, but I thought it was pretty blatant. 

2) I've seen this mentioned on the board last night and today, IU O-line looked to be starting early almost every snap. They got called for multiple false starts, but literally almost every play they had some type of movement. In both cases the holding and false starts, I guess if you can get away with it, than why not. 

3) The ejection rule for targeting needs to be eliminated immediatley, if not the entire rule itself. It's the most subjective, poorly called rule in football I've ever seen. The difference of impact between the Bolden targeting ejection vs MSU, and the hit Rudock took yesterday is expontential. If they want it to be a personal foul penalty I guess that's fine, but the impact of ejecting a player on a call that is accurate MAYBE half the time is absurd. 

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You Only Live Twice

November 15th, 2015 at 1:30 PM ^

We all expect the ups and downs associated with officiating, especially with teams that get away with more holding - I think we are getting conditioned not to care about that anymore.  The confusion with targeting is a more serious matter as the objective - player safety - is not being served.  If a player is blatantly targeting, it's caught on camera, everyone can see it and replay it, but because Bolden was ejected for NOT targeting - now it seems no one wants to call it.  So get rid of the rule or at least modify it, so many of these could have been legit personal foul yet they aren't calling that either.  Words will get you a PF if the refs hear it - so what, words don't cause a concussion.  

JUB in his segment on Michigan Insider, pointed to the complete lack of accountability within the officating group.  Excellent point.  Maybe if they had to answer a uuestion or two at a presser.  

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rbgoblue

November 15th, 2015 at 12:26 PM ^

We have nothing to complain about. The refs kept us in the game on the botched call on the Lewis kick off return. Furthermore, by ruling his forward progress was stopped (with no whistle mind you), they took away the opportunity to review the play.



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Ghost of Fritz…

November 15th, 2015 at 3:02 PM ^

and I do agree that Michigan was the beneficiary of several questionable calls. 

But on the other hand, in a poorly officiated game I am not really convinced that 'it all evens out' just because the bad call went both ways.  Consistently bad officiating alters the game and changes the outcome, even if the bad calls are not one sided. 

Refs are never going to be perfect, but when is rally bad and/or really inconsistent from week to week, it becomes to much of a factor in shaping the outcome. 

 

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MichiganMAN47

November 15th, 2015 at 12:27 PM ^

At the end of the first half, the refs didn't call PI on Indiana when the DB mauled Chesson from the time he started his route to the time the ball hit him. It was very obvious.

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Winchester Wolverine

November 15th, 2015 at 12:29 PM ^

I was at the game and I'm not sure if it was the "FIRST DOWN, HOOOOOOOSIERS" that originally ate away at my sanity, but it seemed there was a flag thrown every 5 plays or so. Our false starts and offsides penalties were driving me nuts. And the no call after Jake getting hit directly in the head while sliding AGAIN was absolutely ridiculous.

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 12:37 PM ^

but not with intent to harm. By definition they'd not targeting but I'm just going by how they've called it since creating it. He went for the head or low hit when a genuine tackle attempt would have called for a higher trajectory. That stuff shouldn't equal ejection but a penalty by the way they've been calling it. I honestly think the game is too tickytack but I'm going by their own system.

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mgobaran

November 16th, 2015 at 1:56 PM ^

I would disagree on that too. A few days removed, but I didn't think it was dirty at the time. No way for the guy on defense to stop his momentum. Rudock started the slide at virtually the same moment the player went for the tackle. Thought the Indiana player did a good job of pulling up (didn't he hit Rudock's head with his hip instead of going in with a forearm/shoulder/crown of helmet?).

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 12:30 PM ^

Both of the back to back PI calls were bogus. Indiana was moving early all game but that's something teams are doing across the board (ND does this, too), of timed out right it's never called. Holding was blatant on the edges but they wore white gloves for a reason. Finally, if that wasn't targeting on Rudock I'm not sure what is anymore. Did you see that hit the Baylor player had on Oklahoma's Mixon last night? Clear intent to harm and then talked shit to Mixon after knocking his helmet off, both right in front of a ref to no call. Given the Bolden call and seeming lack of concern for Rudock, they need to revisit the rule. I also think they need to remove the automatic ejection in favor of a 2 PF ejection system. I'd start by maybe adding to the penalty length for blatant, intent to harm targeting. The rest can be 15 yarders, IMO.

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 12:33 PM ^

Also forgot the Lewis fumble and Smith "no whistle until he's broken" plays. Both really bad officiating. I kinda get Smith is a guy that fights for yards so you want to delay it but he was engulfed by the entire defense for a full 5 seconds, then whistle and further hits as they untangled. It was a 5 second play that lasted 15.

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 3:23 PM ^

that I'm surprised it hasn't already been addressed or refs don't take huge note of it. When Team A's colors are, say, blue and white and Team B wears red and gold....and every OL for "Team A" is rocking red gloves/tape? I'd REALLY notice that as a ref and watch accordingly. It's a giant admission of pre-planned holding (lol). That goes back so far, btw. Very old trick.

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Dawkins

November 15th, 2015 at 12:31 PM ^

The officiating this year has been so shitty that I no longer get instantly excited about big plays, nor do I get upset about big plays against us. At this point I'm basically programmed to give it a good 2-3 seconds to wait for a flag resulting from poor, inconsistent officiating. It's really ruining the fan experience. The Big Ten has to do something about it to protect its brand. 

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^

It's truly ruining the game. For every one thing IR gets right it destroys 10. If a HB runs 30+ and his entire body falls in the endzone, why look at that for 3 mins? It wasn't a QB sneak. It's a TD. Move on. I never thought I'd say this but IR needs to be cut back as it's hurting the game and experience as well as making officials lazy. Watch pre-IR footage. Sure, they blew some calls that IR would have fixed. We know that as well as any fans. Yet, they were so much more accountable for everything else. Plus, unless it's obvious I'm sick of not rewarding effort on a great catch, etc. Oh, he didn't hold onto the ball until halftime? He "only" dove, caught it, slid OOB, got half his body in and lost it after rolling 3 times? That's a catch lol. Sorry, it's a catch. It's getting crazy how bad it is now.

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goblue16

November 15th, 2015 at 12:34 PM ^

i thought the officiating was pretty even. Bad calls against Michigan but there were also bad calls against IU. What surprised me was the number of false starts and offsides on Michigan. Was it really the crowd noise? Michigan played at IU, Utah, Minnesota, and Maryland none of which has a crowd larger than 50,000. Was IU doing something on offense and defense to cause Michigan to jump?

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UMgradMSUdad

November 15th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^

I attribute some of the offsides calls, to what others have mentioned up-thread:  The IU OLine starting a fraction of a second before the ball was snapped.  This led Michigan players to trying to anticipate, rather than waiting for the ball to be snapped.

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UMForLife

November 15th, 2015 at 12:39 PM ^

REFs are who they are. I don't think it is going to change much this year. They already screwed us in one game. I hope that doesn't happen rest of the way.

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Tkriz

November 15th, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^

At first I thought rudock hit was personal foul, but once they showed replay, I thought it was ok. Iu player didn't lead with head and only hit rudock with his backside.



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goblue16

November 15th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^

The targeting penalty has made no sense. In the Utah-Zona game Anu arizonas QB too a terrible hit to the head knocking him out of the game with concussion like symptoms. If the targeting rule is meant to protect the players then what the hell was that? They can review if a play is targeting if it is called but they cant review an uncalled targeting penalty?? Tht makes no sense

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RJWolvie

November 15th, 2015 at 12:44 PM ^

The offensive PI against Indiana in first half was really lame call that gave us like 60yds (& a score iirc). Officiating was bad, but no worse than other games, and this time I think we got at least as well as we got screwed...



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Baughhumbug

November 15th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^

The refs were horrible. People in this thread need to distinguish between complaining about the refs and blaming them for our performance. I'm totally on board with the former. There were some truly horrible calls.

That said, we were on the receiving end of a couple of ref-incompetence gifts: Offensive pass interference call on IU, the fumble by Lewis given back to us...there was another I can't recall.

I'm surprised Harbaugh wasn't yelling at them more. I actually think that helps a lot.

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GoBlueInIowa

November 15th, 2015 at 2:59 PM ^

Yeah, the ones you mentioned plus I think a couple more calls that went our way - I was like "wow, that was s bad call". I think it was beneficial/poor both ways pretty evenly, but the Lewis fumble non-call might have changed the game if it went the other way. I am sure that Indiana fans (all three of them - I kid, I kid), were/are pretty irate about that call.



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Sten Carlson

November 15th, 2015 at 12:49 PM ^

I've noticed since Mike Martin was terrorizing opposing OLines that Michigan's DL gets grabbed/held constantly, but draws very few flags. I remember someone asking Hoke/Mattison about it and they said something about selling the hold a bit better. I agree with posters above, Michigan's DL was outmatched versus IU's OL, but there were so many plays -- especially edge runs -- where it looked like IU's OL was totally holding our edge contain defender and drew only one flag. It's confounding to say the least, and I wish Harbaugh would address it to the team, the conference, and the fans/media.

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Sten Carlson

November 15th, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^

Yep! I get that good OLinemen seem to make DL's stick to them somehow, but Wormley, in particular, seemed to have his jersey tugged on constantly. Maybe the holding rule has evolved somehow, and the Michigan coaches haven't yet caught up with the trend. Our OL doesn't draw an inordinate number of holding calls, but they also can't set the edge effectively at all -- especially as compared to IU yesterday. I can't believe that the staff is missing something -- that seems just as implausable as a concerted conspiracy against Michigan. Either way, it's very confusing and unsettling to me. It seems like it's every game too! Minnesota was holding all over the place, as was Sparty, but few if any flags were thrown. Wtf?!?

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Danwillhor

November 15th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^

the overall "help the offense" mentality and rules within football at the moment. Many OLs are now coached to start a split second before the snap (watch Indiana, ND, Oregon, etc) to no call. When done right it's never called. Further, offenses move so much that I think refs either count defensive players out of the play too soon or the ball is literally 5+ yards past the LOS in a second so anything behind is just ignored. It all bothers me but what I noticed in the games you mention was a clear attempt to illegally keep a defender from getting to the edge before the runner. By any means necessary, legal or not. As I noted above, the white gloves the IU OL wore were no accident but when a defender is flowing to the sideline, the engaged OL is on the opposite side of the defender (his back/side) and the defender mysteriously can no longer move in the flowing direction, that's holding. IU did that all game with Wormley to no call. Physics dictate that the OL would have to be on his chest to cause that kind of legal stall and they almost never were. As far as what we're doing (or not doing), I can say I've noticed but I don't think we're very good on the OL. I think our OL is just trying to move in concert every play and using what slight holding benefits the refs/game allow is beyond them at the moment. Cole is still our best OL and he's a true Soph that has started since day one. We're just not very good up front so I think those extra coaching tips are being ignored right now in place of basic teamwork.

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Sten Carlson

November 15th, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^

Well said. I've said it before: so many times a Michigan DLineman gets immediate penetration and get the "arm across the chest" move that used to ALWAYS draw a flag, but none are forthcoming. It's so blatant, yet it seems to be allowed now cause, amazingly. You're 100% correct about the physics. The play they highlighted last night was indicative of the problem. IU's top OLineman turned Wormley inside within the rules. But then, Wormley was flowing down the line and he seemed to be "stuck" to the IU OLineman. Even as Wormley's movement pulled away, he couldn't. Why? Because IU's guy was holding him back. The initial "block" was fine. It was the rest of it that should have been flagged -- and it is almost every time in the NFL! The

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