THIS POST HAS BEEN REDACTED SO I DON'T END UP ON TWIS.
Official Vent Thread
I honestly think the biggest disappointment this year is the O line. Run blocking has been atrocious, and they are an experienced group.
I completely agree. Whether it is blocking schemes or just technique, they just have not been able to drive defenses off the ball.
is assuming Lewan goes pro, we return 1 starter on O-line next year. I'm worried the blocking will be even worse next year than this year.
This x10000000!!! I know fitz hasn't looked great this year, but honestly, I don't see him missing that many holes. I see him getting frustrated by the lack of holes and then becoming impatient when running.
The only reason Denard has been able to run well at all this year is his own God given ability or the help of an extra blocker. The line has been very poor. Barnum and Mealer especially.
I dont blame the players, especially Bellamy, I blame Hoke and Borges all the way on this one, they failed to give these guys the motivation that this game was not lost. There was zero sense of urgency to win this game, 5 minutes to go we're making plays finally and the players are walking back to the line of scrimmage? I dont think so you play 2-minute drill football and you play to frickin win! Not taking timeouts to try and get our offense the ball? This was a pathetic coaching performance and one of the most disappointing Michigan losses Ive watched, this is more painful than the RR era because expectations are higher. The coaches should have been giving Gardner reps at qb all season, and they need to get Fitz out of their ass and give the ball to Thomas Rawls. Ridiculous, lose the stubbornous (coaches) and play to win. I hate this
welcome to the board
but once the 2nd half started and NO Denard ..... it was over and we all should have known it. Defense played well considering they also knew that the offense wasn;t going to score a bunch of points. Oh yeah ... the refs absolutely SUCKED, except for the fact that Nebraska's secondary could allplay for sparty ... fucking head hunters !!!!
OK .. vent over ..... go blue ......
I hope we at least got orange slices and Capri Suns during the second half...
I had two kids popped on my jr pee wee game today - both bleeding.
They went back in and we won.
I don't see that heart in this Michigan team.
They didn't throw on a jacket and scowl.
Michigan 5-3, Ohio State and Notre Dame undefeated, Tigers down 3-0 in the series, learning that Michigan could seriously be screwed without Denard next season... All I can say is: Is it basketball season yet?
Do not recall that in RR years, and if not, we might be nearly 50 years since that happened. Any historical statisticians or talented Googlers out there?
We didn't score a TD against ND, MSU, or Nebraska.
I only looked back about 15 years (posted below before seeing this) but didn't this happening before. Also, RR never had a game without a TD, even in 2008.
Honestly, at what point does hoke think about a new oc?
I don't know what im more angry about:
Scenario #1 Early on with Bellomy in game, receivers could not catch the fucking ball to maintain any semblance of momentum. I mean help the fucking quarterback out!!!!!!!
Scenario #2 Notre Dame housing Oklahoma and how we totally should have beaten them... commence the Notre Dame is #1 or #2 talk. God they are so over-rated!!!! Their quality wins are us? (clearly overrated) and now Oklahoma (also ALWAYS overrated). Bob Stoops is great at losing every big game he coaches in....
I honestly think I'm more mad about Notre Dame now that I spell it out but I can't really tell... I'm just so fucking mad
Your handle of AngryAlum is very telling.
We can't be happy because we're Michigan fans and Michigan lost. Now you are telling us that we can't be sad or angry in a thread titled "vent". If we can't get irrationally upset about sports games, what can we get worked up about?
We can't be happy because we're Michigan fans and Michigan lost. Now you are telling us that we can't be sad or angry in a thread titled "vent". If we can't get irrationally upset about sports games, what can we get worked up about?
It was spawned during the early RichRod years thanks to Threet Sheridan et al.... BTW I was a big fan of RichRod...
We now have field goal kicking. AND we should have field goal kicking for some period of time. I am trying to find some silver lining on this somber as hell evening.
If you cannot see why we're moving the ball so poorly on the ground, I don't think you're a very astute football fan. Michigan OL is just plain weak this season. They get very little push, they're not getting the second level, and when they do open some holes, they close up quickly as they cannot sustain the blocks long enough to let the runners through. Fitz is dancing and running east-west because there is NOWHERE to run.
So I'm so pissed I can hardly speak. That was the most incredibly lame offensive show I think I've ever seen from a Michigan team. Even before Denard went out. Its been the same thing over and over against decent competition for the past two years, last week against MSU was no different. If I was the Nebraska defensive coordinator I could have done nearly as good of a job today, and last week as well. SERIOUSLY, keeping Bellomy in for the entire second half without trying something with Gardiner, thinking we would be able to run the ball with NO THREAT of a passing game, COULD IT REALLY HAVE BEEN ANY WORSE. I give big kudo's to what the defense has been able to do with a lot of underclassmen and few juniors and seniors (KUDO's to Greg and the defensive players), but Borges just plain SUCKS. I'm sorry, but we have gone from Rich-Rod who could run an offense but not have a defense, to Hoke, who has re-established a defense but has Al "I personally suck eggs and can't be creative" offense, so which is worse. My suggestion to the team: Hoke you need to get someone who can taylor your offense to your personnel and has some creativity and get rid of the IDIOT who is Al Borges!! If Bellomy is really our second best option at quarterback, you REALLY, REALLY are an overpaid idiot!!!!!!!!!!!! I would have thought that you would have a better backup plan for when (NOT IF) Denard was injured. Obviously I have given you (Borges) a whole lot more credit than is due, and the Michigan Athletic Department is paying you a significant amount more than you are worth!!!!!
This is a vent thread. Trying to be funny all the time makes you look like an ass.
Says the guy who makes a comment making himself look like an ass. Bravo
If calling someone out for continually trying to be funny when responding to posts full of frustration is being an ass then sure. By the way, posting empty fluff all of the time doesn't really mean you are contributing, but good for you!
You take this board and football way too seriously. Seek help for your anger issues. Humor is good for the soul, try enjoying it sometime.
The Official Vent Thread isn't a place to dispense some justifiable anger? Whether it be in defense of one's anger or in defense of another's displeasure is not relevant. Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity so i'll back away from you very slowly and make sure not to quarrel with someone of your intellect in the future.
with difficulty set to freshman and human ai at 100 and cpu ai at 0?
i think yes.
I think I am very scared of 2013, very very scared.
Really good defense. Extremely mediocre offense.
The receivers aren't good but, in Roundtree's credit he was robbed of the one catch and Gallon was going to lose 2 yards if caught the one WR screen. Gardner is a good athlete but if he is gonna get hit he won't make the catch. We needed to get the ball back in the hands of Drew " The Threat" Dileo, he always makes the catch.
It's truly inexplicable to me how we have one of the fastest, most dangerous running QB's in the nation, if not ever, and we constantly bottle him up with horrible play calling. Just totally uninspired crap. Sure Denard can make something out of nothing against mediocre teams but against any defense with a pulse our offense has been pretty much shit.
You do realize he missed most of last nights game right?
We seem somewhat short in this category. Thought D-line was great tonight, particularly in first half. Linebackers were great, couple breakdowns n secondary but not end of world. O-line was good enough. But, looks to me that this team has a single skill player (I am ignoring our place kickers). When he goes down, we are without any offensive threat whatsoever. I expect Funchess to develop, but there are no clear candidates for talented skill players next year at this point in the season. Not good.
Every game it becomes more obvious how badly UM needs Green and Treadwell.
Green and Treadwell are no sure things. No player is until they perform in college. Jake Ryan was a 3 star who had no major offers outside of the MAC until Michigan came calling. Will Campbell was a 5 star flop. Green and Treadwell are names - with pretty stars next to their names in the recruiting publications. It means nothing.
We need a stud WR and a stud RB - period. Who those names are - who knows.
He picks them to win every time. Show me a time he predicts them to lose and they do and I'll be impressed.
Especially when you see other teams that do not appear to be any better than us be able to put in back up QBs and win. I guess Denard is and has been our entire offense for a while now, this just proves it. But, why, after so long, have not been able to recruit capable guys that can win games without Denard? I mean I understand a back up not being as good, but three interceptions is significantly worse than what should be expected.
I hope we appreciate how blessed we have been to have Denard for the last couple of years. Desmond doppelgänger. Make something out of nothing. UM record setter. Big Ten record setter. Conquerer of staff infection. Dancer at bball games. RIchRod bridge. Michigan Man. And much, much more. I describe him as pure joy on the football field. We are in for a world of hurt when he graduates and I hope everyone realizes this.
can we get a gif of that roh bull rush and sack? watching that over and over will make me feel better.
meh. His first class are a bunch of frosh. Just him when he has 3 classes under belt. Until then he is managing. He has an elite d-coordinator who has been making a lot out of 'average', and a ho hum offense coordinator. I just hope he is not "Bill Ford" loyal to the OC who is a dime a dozen coordinator to me.
The 2014-2015 teams will be what Hoke should be judged on.
Can ever annoucer please stop telling us that Denard is one of the toughest players in the country when he is not. Obviously he is our best QB and one of the all time great athlete's to play at UM and we need him to win, but if he was as tough as Vincent Smith, he would have come back in the game. If he comes back in and takes snaps with his left hand and runs every down, we have a better chance in that game.
So true, he can't throw with a good arm, might as well just come in and run
You are saying that Denard isn't tough because he wouldn't come back into the game at quarterback, take snaps one-handed, and try to lead an offense without the physical ability to throw the ball?
While you're at it, why don't you call Marcus Lattimore a pansy-ass for waiting for that weak-ass cart to haul him off the field. HE HAD ONE GOOD LEG, HE COULD HAVE HOPPED.
God damn Michigan fans piss me off sometimes.
RE: Denard's injury.... (I'm not a doctor) I've been dealing with an ulnar nerve issue in my dominant hand for about 18 months. I have a slight impingement of the nerve. 2 rounds of steroids, 3 bouts of physical therapy, and 1 elbow surgery later.... I stil have numbness and drop shit all the time. I also have some slight radial nerve issues as well, but its minor compared to the other issue. Those nerves can give you pain and numbness from the fingertips to the shoulder.
I'm not saying Denard has a serious long-term issue, but speaking from a similar experience with nerve issues in my arm, I couldn't imagine throwing a football let alone holding onto one. Again, I'm not saying omg Denard is lost. Its probably a stinger like funny bone hit that will be fine next week. I have to respect the coaches for holding him out in the 2nd half. Nerve issues are serious business....
It does suck losing in the crop circle though...
Ohhhh the pain.....
Still no playmakers on the outside, I am still hopeful for a few swing passes to "norfleet." This offense blows, nice play by the WR tonight, way to catch the football.
I still like to scream for craig like the old man in Friday "Get em Craig!!"
Hard to win that way. Amazingly we won one.
If I've counted correctly, 2002-2011 we had three games in which we failed to score a touchdown. Two in 2002 (Iowa and OSU), one more against OSU in 2007. This year we've had three now.
I'd be interested to know when was the last time we went two consecutive games without a TD, but don't feel like figuring it out myself. Weirdly, in 1998 there were two consecutive games where we scored 12 points, but both times that was by TD, FG, and safety (and we won both).
In 2002 against Iowa the 6 points did come from a touchdown, but the extra point was blocked.
The last time Michigan failed to score a touchdown in two consecutive games was in 1962 when they were shut out three times in a row.
Well done, thanks.
Didn't notice that about the Iowa game, just saw the 6 and assumed two FGs.
bringing in shit coordinators.
It's michigan FERFUCKSAKES. Is it that hard to find a proven coordinator that wants to coach here?
First Rodriguez undermines Schaffer, a proven DC and brings in his crony, GERG. I can't remember a Michigan defense ever being that bad. Cost Rod his job.
Then Hoke brings in Al Borges, a guy with a proven track record for mediocrity, or above average with the right talent.
Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.
Please prove me wrong. Please, please, please.
I love you, is Greg out of Town?
Girl = Michigan when Denard got hurt, Dog = Nebraska
Snow = incomplete passes.
Thanks for an awesome LOL moment. I needed it this morning.
against teams that can stop Denard from just running all day, the offense can't do crap. 0 tds against ND, MSU and Nebraska and we were lucky to get those 2 against Bama.
when Denard was injured, and Bellomy went 0 for 10 passing.
when Bellomy had 2 interceptions and failed to score a TD after a Nebraska turnover.
when Touissant failed to break a long run.
At least Borges did not down on the field and run Denard's elbow with a wolverine plush toy.
Hoke certainly has a poker face, when asked tough questions on the field, but what will he do to take away the tough questions.
Help me Shane Morris, you're my only hope.
When was last Mchigan team to not to score even a single touchdown in three games in a single season?
In 2002, we scored 9 in two games, so I assume no TDs there. In 1998 we had two wins with 12 points -- again, I am assuming 4 FGs. 1984 shows a shutout and a 6 point game against Ohio. 1979 shows two 15-point games -- unlikely, but maybe 5 FGs. 1972 shows two, but one is an 11-point game. 1969 shows two, as does 1967. 1963 shows two -- maybe.
I'm calling this a 50-year record. Team 83 was shut out three times in 1962, and finished 2-7.
We have four games to play.
might? even if you believe Bellamy can "manage" a team for a year, who is going to the backup QB next yr if not Shane? Please dont bring Devin Gardner up - he is obviously not what the coaches are seeking
Well I would like to vent about this thread ruining TWIS for me I will no longer be able to get a laugh at others expense after this epically fail thread 326 posts in less than an hour.
1. Bellomy is not ready to be a backup QB.
2. Where is Rawls? Fitz was ineffective yet again and Rawls doesn't touch the ball.
3. Denard's first instinct was to go out of bounds then cut back in at which point I screamed at my TV and then took what looked like a harmless hit and the rest is history. Lesson learned? Trust your first instinct! You're already hurt and throw yourself into two defenders when you could have went out of bounds instead of trying to stretch that extra yard or two and this is what happens. I firmly believe with Denard the whole game we win this.
4. Play calling was miserable yet again, for example, 3rd and long, blitz in your face coming and you know it and you call a Option play that anyone with a brain in their head knew was going backwards right when the ball got snapped.. What was with all the East/West over and over?
Just a few that I can think of right now.
1. Bellomy was thrown into a road game, at night, Lincoln, Nebraska -- a very, very difficult place to play -- against a veteran Nebraska defense. I thought he looked like a RS Freshman -- he made some good plays, but mostly looked really overwhelmed.
2. Fitz has been ineffective because the OL isn't getting any push, nor opening any holes through which he can run. I agree that I'd like to see Rawls, but I have to defer to the guys that see the RB's every day in practice. If he's not getting any meaningful carries, there has to be a reason. I cannot speculate on what that reason might be, but I am certain that there is a good reason.
3. I agree, with Denard possessing the ball, the defense remains fresh, and Michigan wins.
4. I don't know what you were watching, but I thought until Denard went out, Borges was calling a very good game. He was mixing up the run and the pass, taking shots deep, and actually called runs from the I formation, instead of always running play action (something everyone in here has been complaining about).
I think the entire issue behind this offense is the ineffectiveness of the OL. They're far less effective than last year's OL, and it shows in Fitz's inability to gain meaningful yards, even against the weaker run stopping defenses on the schedule. I think everyone needs to re-fucking-lax. The sky is not falling, Borges is not unqualified, it's just that Michigan isn't able to control the line of scrimmage, and that causes trouble in every aspect of the offense.
This night could not be any worse. Loss to Nebraska, Tigers down 3-0, Sparty wins in OT, and Notre Dame beats Oklahoma and is now a real threat for a national title. These are the types of days I crave Zingermans to cheer me up. At least I have the mighty Lions to look forward to tomorrow....
Re: ND, sadly I don't see them any lower than 3 in the new BCS rankings, and 2nd wouldn't surprise me one bit. I has a sad.
To our wide recievers: "CATCH THE GODDAMN BALL"
This season we acquired two appropriate sized receivers, where one has good hands and the other has insane athleticism, yet we don't really play the long ball card when they have single coverage why?! Where did our explosive offense of last year go?
I hope Michigan's offense plays better.
Watching that game after Denard went out was like being in surgery awake and totally aware but unable to tell the doctor so all you can do is lie there in horrible pain and wait for it to be over.
Starting QB: Devin Gardner (no we need him as WR), Russell Bellomy (oh the horror, oh the horror), and Shane Morris (pray he gets over mono and does not get injured) or one of the many freshman QB's you can't name offhand.
Running back: Justice Hayes (if he does not transfer), Dennis Norfleet (if he does not get injured on special teams), or Thomas Rawls (after he finishs his Redshirt season, if that happans).
WR: we lose only Roundtree, but the real question - can any of them hold onto the ball, if by chance it gets thrown to them reasonably.
TE: we have Funchess, but there is another 5-6 TE's we never see.
OL: we lose only Patrick Onameh, Ricky Barnum, Elliot Mealer. Do we get a couple internal linemen, i.e. center or guard, who can shore up the protection for rushing.
Furthermore, will the QB always have to look to the sideline to get the play, or will Borges consider running a no-huddle offense or at least a hurry-up offense.
Can we improve our percentage in the red zone, or at least score a TD on defense, if not on offense?
Hate to say it, but we lose Lewan too. It looked all but certain that he was heading to the NFL after this season, and we just gave him a frustrating glimpse of some of the growing pains he would be facing on offense next year. Really hope I'm wrong...
It doesn't seem like his stock will really have risen much. And with the prospect of Kalis and Magnuson coming in next year... he could benefit a lot from the attention he'd get from a dominant OL...
Hope you're wrong...
He's had a bad season but I highly doubt he's our fourth best RB next year...
Soooo.... When does basketball season start. This game was a fucking disgrace. I usually try and stay positive however tonight there are NO positives. When you don't score a TD for 2 fucking weeks in a row and 3 of 8 games there's something going on. THIS IS FUCKING MICHIGAN. If one guy goes down we should be able to have more than 1 guy able to play the QB position. The defense played their hearts out but when the fucking offense leaves them on the field for an entire quarter they won't be able to keep it up forever. FUCK EVERYTHING!
This is the worst mgoblog has been since Penn State 2010. This thread is the definition of overreaction.
is very disappointing to me. He has killed Denard's mojo and natural instinct by forcing pocket passing on him. It is frustrating that our D is championship caliber while our offense has been stagnant and lacks explosiveness when we have the MOST explosive player in the country!
That being said, we need to win out and hope for some help along the way. Season is far from over.
Did you see Denard flinging the ball downfield tonight? One was ruled incomplete, but was perfectly thrown, and the other was caught. Borges was taking his shots, and has NOT killed Denard's mojo. Honestly, I don't know what some of you people expect, nor what the hell you're watching.
That on several occasions Denard stand in the pocket, patting the ball 5-7 seconds and then throws either a late, inaccurate short pass or hurls it deep, the majority of the time inaccurate or a wr can't make a play. These instances are clearly Borges hammering pocket passing in Denard's head when he should be taking off and running, gaining 7-15 yards a pop. I think Denard is a playmaker with his feet and his arm in a spread offense and he is not utilized to his full ability in Borges' hybrid offense. Watch Braxton Miller with Ohio and watch Denard this year. You think there is a difference ? Ohio has a one man offense and they are explosive because he runs the football when his 2nd read isn't open, not running through 4 progressions and throwing the ball late. So yes, I know what I'm watching each week.
You are absolutely 100% wrong. Look Borges has fucked up and we can all agree on that. But blaming denard hanging out in the pocket too long and not running cannot be pinned on any of the coaches. I've said this 1000 times and it continues to be true. Denard, for whatever reason, has always been a guy who looks and looks and waits and waits for something to come open rather than taking off. It was true under coach rod and its true now. RR and Borges/Hoke have all said on numerous occasions that they wish denard would just take off sometimes when nothing is there downfield.
Brian commented on this numerous times during UFR's in 2010 when RR was here. Finally, last year (in the Nebraska game no less) it looked as though Denard had turned a corner and finally decided to make his legs his third read instead of continuing to wait. That turned out to be an exception rather than the new rule.
Borges has done plenty this year and last to deserve being questioned, but if you have watched Denard over his three years as a starter, you would know that him hanging out in the pocket too long and refusing to give up on plays downfield has been a constant throughout his career.
Thank you for that response. Stan,s only reply to anyone is always "I don't know what the hell you were watching, but.....".
Denard has achieved what he has because of his instinctive play, not because coaches have told him what to do and when to do it. They not only took away his mojo, they may very well be taking away his shot at any position in the NFL other than good practice material for the starters.
- I refuse to blame this loss on Russell Bellomy. Yes, he didn't perform well at all. But he has had little playing time. None with ANY significance. About 98% of it was in garbage time. He is a RS Freshman going into one of the most hostile environments (nice fans though) in the conference. At night. Oh, and it happens to be one of the most important games of the season and has HUGE division significance.
- Denard is going to be okay.
- New defensive front for most of the game I noticed. DE-DT-NT-DE = Beyer-Black-Washington-Roh
- Smith is the new #2 RB. Rawls didn't play at all.
- Mario Ojemudia was seen limping off the field (Per Mark Snyder). Leg injury supposedly.
- Defense is elite. No help from offense though doesn't exactly keep the defensive players from not being exhausted.
- This is where I have really just started noticing the departure of Darryl Stonum really hurting the team's passing game.
- Gardner is ineffective at WR. Need to get him back to QB ASAP and start prepping him for next year.
- PLEASE STOP WITH THE OBVIOUS SUB INS OF REYNOLDS AND JACKSON WHICH ARE RUNNING PLAYS. K?
We passed to Jackson he dropped it when hit for an incopletion
Two straight games without scoring a touchdown, and I find myself watching this:
Yep, seems about right.
This was the last week I planned on rooting against sparty anyways so for now I am hoping that msu runs the table because it only benefits us. It may be too late to say this, but I really hope we don't become the main joke for twis this week. Keep the faith ladies and gentlemen lots of season left.
How the zone run blocking has failed the RB. Most of the time it seems there are 3 defenders in our back field ready to tackle our RB after he takes a hand off. A lot of the time Robinson will make a big play by running up the middle. I have to blame the O-line coaches for failing on technique since we do have some talented OL!
Never liked the idea of moving Gardner to WR! He should be the back up QB and be in the competition next spring for starting QB next fall with Bellamy and Morris. Gardner has much more talent at QB than Bellamy and should be the starter when Robinson is out.
At the beginning of the year I had Michigan losing to AL, ND, NE and OSU to finish 8-4. After noticing how average NE and OSU looked, I thought this was a good year for us to run the table in the B1G. If Robinson is injured and cannot play for the remainder of the season we may end up losing at home to Northwestern and IA.
We may have to get use to the 7-5 and 8-4 records for the next few years. Once we get more depth and better skill players, we should turn it around by 2015 during Shane's RS Sophomore season.
Seems like every few weeks after some miserable FAIL the projections for UM's return to dominance gets pushed back another year....we are now saying 2015, ugh!
Unfortunately, we don't seem to have a passing game.
Michigan's defense played well most of the football game. But when you're on the road in a veyr loud, hostile stadium, your offense has to get first downs and score some points on it's own, otherwise the momentum gets out of hand. Nebraska's defense shifted the momentum completely the other direction.
The refs were bad, but they effed over Nebraska too in this game on a number of plays. I'm sure Pellini is going to ask that crew be shit-canned after the game - even though Nebraska won said game.
I will say this. Nebraska fans I met with and sat next to were a class act - very gracious, laughing and having a good time talking with Wolverine fans. Some were drunk, but they were very happy after what happened in this same game last year. They kind of realize that they beat a Michigan team that was not at full strength today and the drop off with Bellomy was very surprising to them.
The guy behind me lamented after Denard Robinson ran for another first down "That kid is just such a phenominal athlete!" And NU fans around him nervously agreed. That was the highlight of the night I'm afraid.
GO BLUE! BEAT MINNESOTA!
A lot of people got sent to Bolivia tonight, but most of them deserve much worse. And let me be the first to say I believe this is the worst loss of the last two years, given the way we just totally threw in the towel. But the season is far from over. Stop trying to make TWIS.
I realize there's a wee bit of drinking going on but please, read through your post at least once before saving...
My fiancé is a physical therapist and said an ulnar nerve injury which is what sensed had could take a day or a month to heal depends on how badly it's damaged
It would certainly limit Denard in his rushing no matter how severe the inury is, at least for a few weeks. You do not want to keep Denard hitting the ground with his right elbow in the near future. What bothered me most was that he didn't do anything on the sideline during the game, which means that the damage could be rather severe.
Yeah, because Urban inherited the absolute worst fit for a spread style QB to run his offense in Braxton Miller. But hey, lets fire Borges just as Denard is graduating and his pro style 5 star is about to arrive.
drunk TWIS drunk TWIS drunk TWIS drunk TWIS. Today sucks. Michigan, in all sensse of the word, loses. The world wins. Me = sad.
is based on the play of the QB. If was mainly based on a RB we would still have a passing game. Without Denard, this offense comes to a grinding hault. Let's face facts, the oline isn't very good, aside from Denard we haven't rushed the ball well all season. 5'-9" or 5'-10" running backs won't get very far in the B1G.
If Denard doesn't play again this season, we'll be lucky to get to .500. This is why I hate having running QBs and why the NFL shys away from them. I probably shouldn't say this, but hiring RichRod will cost this program more than the three years he was here. The oline will be behind for another year or two and we have no experienced RBs to count on. The QB situation speaks for itself.
The rest of this year and all of next year won't be pretty.
You cant blame this loss on richrod. Hoke didnt have to bring a mediocre pro-style OC with him.
He could have hired a spread option guy to work with our talent. HC's are capable of changing offensive philosophies with success.
Schembechler changed from the option to pro style when the time was right. Les miles plug and plays successfully with OCs when his good coordinator gets hired away.
A lot of the pieces are there. A great DC. Hoke is a great recruiter and im sure his players love and want to play for him.
But lets face it, he fucked up with his OC hire. Borges is not proven as an OC, beyond average or slightly above. Borges could have prepared gardner as both receiver and backup QB.
Antwaan Randle El started his senior year as a receiver in training camp because he demanded to start his prep for the nfl. Randle El saw that the qb in his place was shit, so he switched back -after the season had started and had another great year.... so dont tell me we couldnt prepare gardner for both positions this year.
When you have a dual threat qb of denards stature, injuries are a very real likely outcome. Leaving nobody home to back him up was a blatant fuck up to say the least.
You're "bullshit" dude. I'm getting sick of all your belly aching, you throwing blame at Borges, and refusing the see the obvious -- Michigan lost some key players on offense, especially on the OL and it'a making it very hard to do anything on offense. Open you fucking eyes for fuck sake!
So sorry its getting old for you. Whats bullshit is that people (including you, dipshit) dont acknowledge what a complete failure it was to leave nobody behind denard when we could have prepared devin.
I saw plenty of plays where bellomy had all the time in the world and still made horrible throws/decisions. Granted, he is young, inexperienced and may have a future. But right now he has no business seeing the field with devin on the roster.
Open your fucking eyes.
DEVIN IS FUCKING HURT YOU BLITHERING MORON! He's got a separated shoulder, and is just healthy enough to play WR (ineffectively for the most part I might add) but not enough to play QB. Do you REALLY think that Hoke would leave a struggling RS Fr. QB in the game if he thought there was another option? REALLY? You're a fucking moron if you think that. So, given the fact that Hoke didn't go to Gardner, it means: 1) either Bellomy is BETTER than a healthy Gardner, and/or 2) Gardner is better, but cannot play QB due to injury.
Basically, what we saw was Michigan's 3rd string QB, not its 2nd string QB. Your statement about Bellomy having, "no business seeing the field with devin on the roster" prove my point, and disproves yours. He saw the field with DG on the roster; therefore, he MUST be the best option for whatever reason.
ReDenard had to sit out a series. They put in bellomy.
Even if bellomy was more capable, which hes not at this point, the point is devin isnt getting the reps to even have the chance to go in there.
Theyve made it clear bellomy is their guy. They want him to go in there if denard goes down. He is more borges' type so to speak.
So to answer your question, even if devin can be a more effective qb at this point, yes, yes they would put in bellomy.
Dont tell me it doesnt happen. Same shit happened to brady hensons sophomore year. In fact we lost a couple games primarily because of it.
I guess its hard for you to believe that coaches make big mistakes, have lapses in judgement at that level. Believe me it happens.
Call me every name in the book you ignorant fuck but its clear the coaching staff made bellomy their guy. Look no further than the reps in practice and the alabama game.
This guy has all the flower and unicorn answers.
All posters who question a coaches or players ability or performances are "fucking idiots who don't know anything about football".
Can't wait to see RR succeed at Arizona. He's won everywhere except Michigan where he wasn't allowed to bring his successful coaching staff with him. When that happens, I wonder where the fault will lie? Successful everywhere BUT Michigan.....hhmmm?
Denard was successful when left alone to make decisions for himself when necessary. Enter Borgess and now not so much.
Borgess is unimaginative, hard headed and arrogant. Sick and tired of hearing about kindergarten and bubble screens. Try concentrating on using the talent you have instead of wasting it, i.e.- Bama, ND MSU and now Nebraska. Win or lose those games, there has been an absolute waste of any talent that these kids bring to the table.
"5'-9" or 5'-10" running backs won't get very far in the B1G."
Yuk, yuk, yuk. Do you shop at Kohl's?
How tall was Barry Sanders? How tall is Darren Sproles? Do you think they could have competed in the Big Ten?
and yes if we didn't lose Denard we would have won that game. i will say that if anything positive came of this its that Bellomy finally got some meaningful pressure situation snaps. Yea he was horrible and his receivers did him no favors but at least he finally got some experience to build on.
As for Big Al, I'm getting sick of these ultra conservative game plans. He experimented with all those formations last season so where the fuck is all this stuff. He needs to OPEN UP THE PLAY BOOK.
he should be fired after this year
Open up the playbook? Did you see the passes to Tree downfield? What about the open play book versus ND? Did you see that? You don't "open up the playbook" when you cannot even execute your base running play. Everything starts from there. You control the LOS, you run your base, you make the defense adjust to stop you from just cramming it down their throat all game, then you hit them with play action, etc. Simple, football 101. You guys are making this far more complex than it is. You're lashing out at the coaches because you think there is something that they're refusing to do, or something that they overlooking (like you know better), when it is YOU that is overlooking the obvious -- MICHIGAN'S OL IS WEAK, VERY WEAK, AND WITHOUT A GOOD OL, NO TEAM MOVES THE BALL EFFECTIVELY. The only reason that Michigan has had ANY offensive success is because Denard is so dynamic.
I can't take any of your gripes seriously because it is clear that you have no fucking clue what you are talking about.
1) you think hoke not wearing a headset has anything to do with the outcome of the game
2) you think the oline looked good
3) you blame fitz's lack of production on predictability of play calls and not the shitty oline
4) you want to "throw the ball downfield when they are blitzing...not the dink pass BS" except that you kind of, you know, need time for the receivers to get downfield. But when blitzes are hitting the qb 2 seconds after the snap you can't really throw a 40 yard pass.
You must have a sad life
"One Saturday you're drinkin' the wine, the next Saturday you're stompin' the grapes."
please derrick green dont bail on us now!
Exactly how does an uncommitted recruit bail?
If everything in football "starts up front," as the cliche says, why is it so hard to look at Michigan's lack of offensive production and realize that it's due to a very weak OL? Is it because it's somehow more satisfying to bitch about the OC? When a running team, in a running conference, CANNOT RUN THE BALL, it's a serious problem. As Bill the Butcher said, if you think the OL looks good, you're really not paying attention, and as such, you're arguments are meritless.
Glen Mason's Ugly Wife, et. al., can bitch all they want, but they're just pissing in the wind. Michigan ran the ball quite well last season, with the same guys running the ball. What's changed? The big guys up front giving Denard and Fitz holes to run through. For some reason people seem obsessed with the OC, and refuse to admit the fact that no OC can scheme around weak OL play. Yes, the OL is realatively good at pass blocking -- I say relatively because Nebraska, ND, and Bama were content to sit back and not pass blitz as they wanted to contain Denard -- but unfortunately, Denard isn't the most accurate passer, and the WR's aren't the best at getting separation. But, the OL is fucking horrible at run blocking.
Again, why is this so hard to understand? Why do so many of you assume that it is incompetence/stubbornness of the coaching staff. Last year, Michigan pounded the ball over and over with Fitz. They ran "predictable" plays, the ran zone-read after zone-read. They ran inverted veers, and QB powers, to great success. Nobody cared that it seemed conservative and predictable, because the OL was blocking it well, and it fucking WORKED! Then, as you all SHOULD know, things open up because you're able to run. This year, not so much. When you cannot run your base offense with any effectiveness, the defense has the upper hand.
You guys are complicating something that is very simple!
...you know, that thing you do when you need to get players to play better. You watch tape with them and practice working on deficiencies. Sounds novel, right? Because I don't what Borges (and to certain extent Hoke) does to improve the offensive play.
And we can't blame this on talent, because we have it. More so than most of Nebraska & MSU opponents that were able to score at will against Nebraska and at least a TD against MSU.
It seems to me that Borges inherited an experienced (and believe it or not a well coached offensive unit) last year that made him look good. It almost reminds me of when Ron English was deemed a god for a season. Then reality set in. Same thing is happening here.
I agree 100% that coaching and practicing your deficiencies etc is important and necessary. But what if, after all that coaching, the player still doesn't get? I mean this happens often right?
Take Will Campbell for example. This year he has been okay, but after 2 years of what we can assume is phenomenal coaching (based on the improvement of the rest of the D) he has not even come close to being an above average Big Ten DT let alone the THOR GOD OF THUNDER, he was thought to be coming out of HS.
Now normally, I assume that if, after all that coaching, a guy still doesn't get it, you tell him to take a seat on the pine and put someone else in to do his job. The problem is, we don't have anyone to put in other than walk-ons at this point.
Look, Borges hasn't been perfect, in fact he hasn't been good on many occasions. But I agree with the poster above, and I think that people are severely overlooking the problems we have up front. Barnum, Mealer, and to a lesser extent Omameh have struggled to get generate push on many occasions and the offensive line as a whole has failed miserably to open up holes for Fitz and Denard. Denard, as we all know, is beyond exceptional at turning a tiny crease into 6 points. Fitz is a great back, but he isn't a runner on Denard's level (who is really?), and he needs holes to open up in order to be productive.
Well said Bill, and I agree with you!
Look WindyCity, coaching is obviously paramount. But, as Bill said, what do you do if all your upperclassmen on the OL, for example, aren't getting any better? What if they've reached their collective ceilings? These guys were ALL recruited by RR, and with the exception of Lewan, I don't think any of them would start on the OL in the past, nor in the near future. But, at this point, they're the best and most experienced that we've got. We know what happens to freshman OLinemen, and I promise you that everyone in here would be freaking the fuck out if Hoke decided to waste RS years for guys like Kalis, Magnuson, etc. You would think that with an OL with 3 RS Sr's and 2 RS Juniors, it would be the strength of the program. But, again, remember the circumstance in which these guys entered the program. Remember how pissed everyone was with RR's OL recruiting.
Anytime you see a back go from 1,000 yard in one season, then, without an injury or a new OC, drops to virtually nothing, you can be sure that it is the OL that isn't performing. I don't think anyone really appreciated how much Molk meant to this team, and to the offensive performance in particular. Remember the Sugar Bowl, when Molk was hobbled and had to sit out the beginning of the game? Remember how anemic the offense looked? I am all for coaching, but at some point, like say 4-5 years in the program, if you're not getting any better, I think it's on you, not the coach.
for actually posting without calling someone a fucking idiot or asking what they were watching,
I agree with you 100%. Have always believed that the trenches is where a game is controlled, but, I'd like to see an attempt at adaptation.
This game sucked because it seemed that anything that could go wrong, did.
Bad passes, no holes, dropped passes, bad calls.....hard to sustain anything when fighting all of that.
We are now seeing just how much we miss Molk!
The University of Michigan should hire a quaterback coach.
The rest of my venting will be mostly directed at UM football fans that like to pretend how much more knowledgable they are than other fans, etc. etc. etc.
I love Denard. He's a once-in-a-generatior talent, and i'll win and lose with him. They'll be some loses because he has deficiencies (perhaps correctable with a QB coach). But for Denard to be successful, the offense pretty much has to be designed around him. And on this blog, most have bitched up a storm when Borges tries to do normal football things like establish a vertical passing game. Whenever Borges deveates from the script of designing the offense around Denard, he sucks. Well, this is what you get when that offensive design loses Denard.
Oh sure, Bellomy looked awful. Hard not to look awful when Nebraska is playing video game defense: just overload blitz again, and again, and again. Where would his meaningful snaps have come from? Two top five teams in the OOC schedule, and a starting QB that still needs refinement in his senior season.
Also, it will take more than a year or two to climb out of the recuriting black hole and be a team where injuries to stars or near stars mean replacement with the next star or near star.
But if we hire a QB coach we have to get rid of one of the other assistant coaches because we are only allowed to have 1 head coach and 9 assistants which we currently have. So you would have to eliminate a position coach in order to bring in a QB coach. Unless you are talking about bringing in a new OC who is also a QB coach.
I think the offense will start to click once we stop trying to turn Denard into a pocket passer. How many time last night when he stood, and stood, and stood in the pocket, could he have taken off and got some meaningful yards. Denard wants to play QB in the NFL, but I don't think it will happen, so stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole. If Denard is in the pocket for more than 3 seconds, he should bolt.