Official M Water Bottle Response
I just received a response from the M athletic department concerning water bottles. I had written:
"Hello, I recently received my football season tickets and was very disappointed to see that sealed water bottles will no longer be allowed into the stadium. I realize that there are free small cups of water and drinking fountains available. However using these sources will cause me to have to leave my seat during the game (I normally never leave my seat so I don't miss any of the great action). I'd like to ask that you reconsider this ban. At the least, perhaps you might allow entirely empty bottles so that individuals can fill up their bottle at the water fountains prior to going to there seat and then not miss any of the game.
Thank you for your consideration."
The response from the M athletic department:
"Thanks for the email. We appreciate your input. The water bottle policy was instituted for several reasons including to help the flow of traffic through the gates. Bottles have not been checked in the past, or at least not thoroughly. With new security procedures planned for this year, a tighter checking procedure is planned to be in place. If water bottles were allowed in, we would be forced to thoroughly check all bottles as they come through which would cause enormous back-ups at the exterior gates. As we found out last year after restricting all bags, the ticket taking process at the gates flows a lot easier if items are not brought in. This policy would not have been put in place without ensuring that our guests would have access to free water. In past years, we only had 4 water fountains and 3 "free water stations". This year, we will now have 28 water fountains and 40 concession stands that will give out free cups upon request. These cups will be 9 oz. size. In addition, every other concession stand will offer bottles of water for sale with the exception of Dippin Dots and Lemon Chill locations. While we knew this would be an unpopular policy, we felt that it was the best move to help with the overall logistics of bringing 109,000 plus fans into Michigan Stadium. Thanks again for the email and please do not hesitate to contact me with further questions.
Rob Rademacher
Associate Athletic Director
University of Michigan
734-647-9763"
This is a follow-up to a prior board post. For those that plan to continue asking for this policy to be rescinded, perhaps you can refute some of these points in your email to the department. I submitted my comments via the mgoblue.com feedback section.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:26 PM ^
i know this sounds cold hearted....but for the betterment of everyone's health I hope someone passes out due to the heat and the University gets sued. I don't buy the crowd flow reason. It takes what 2 seconds to check a bottle. This is a flat out money grab. I am embarrassed to be an alum that cares more about their bottom line than the safety of their fans.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:46 PM ^
If it takes 2 seconds to check a bottle:
110,000 fans going in via 4 gates. Say they're divided evenly, 27500 per gate. Lets say 15% of them have a water bottle with them (probably higher in those early September games).
15% = 4125 bottles to check per gate.
4125 x 2seconds = 8250 seconds = 137.5 minutes
2+ hours spent checking bottles per gate.
Makes sense to just let people have all the free water they can handle once they're inside.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:48 PM ^
Do you work for Absopure?
August 1st, 2010 at 10:51 PM ^
yeah they are giving away a 9 oz cup of water, not the 24 oz bottle of water with a cap
August 1st, 2010 at 10:57 PM ^
While I appreciate that reasoning, I don't think that's too sound.
I think 15% is very high, especially for the north entrances - the busy ones. Those entrances get bogged down about 30 minutes before kick off with students. I'd say about 3-5% of students have water bottles.
On the flip side, I'd bet the south entrances, which probably move much quicker, may have the higher percentage.
Plus, the "2 seconds" only has an effect if there is a backup on the line. If the line is flowing, the 2 seconds doesn't push it back, then it doesn't effect anyone else.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:17 PM ^
dude, that is assuming one person is checking every single bottle at each gate...
There are at least 20 gate checkers at each gate. So divide 4125/25 = 207 (was 206.25 but rounded up).
207*2 =504 seconds = 6.9 minutes
I knew I got a minor in math for a reason
August 1st, 2010 at 11:58 PM ^
First off, I think the 15% number is a bit high. Second, Tom from AA is right that the 2 seconds doesn't really back anyone up unless there is a large line to begin with. Folks that tend to bring water bottles are probably the same folks that are more prepared and go through the gates 30-60 minutes before the game when things move pretty quickly. My guess is that maybe 5% of the people come through with water bottles during the last 15 minutes before kick-off when things are busy.
If that's the case then it drops to ~46 minutes per gate. If there are 12 bottle/bag checkers per gate (maybe that's a touch high), then you're only looking at adding 4 minutes per checker. That doesn't seem like a whole lot to me.
EDIT: I mean this all to imply that checking bottles doesn't seem like it should add much time to the process and therefore we should be allowed to bring them in.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:38 PM ^
I've seen people pass out at games before, however I'm 99% sure it has more to do with alcohol than heat.
staying hydrated helps whether you have had too much to drink or are just sweating your ass off.
It takes more than 2 seconds to check if they are sealed and longer to check that they actually contain water if they aren't sealed...
August 1st, 2010 at 10:29 PM ^
does it really take that long to see if a water bottle is sealed?
the next ban will be on seat cushions.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:29 PM ^
oh look....I just received the same bullshit email.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:55 PM ^
as did I
August 1st, 2010 at 10:33 PM ^
I don't get it, either open the gates earlier ahead of kickoff or widen the entrances for people to get through and have bottles checked.
ND has 4 entrances into the stadium and I have never had line problems with bag checks or bottle checks (ND has the same policy as UM had last year), maybe they don't want to staff that many people? ND has always seemed to have had more ushers than other stadiums for its size, at least that I have been too.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:18 PM ^
The gates are already open more than 90 mintes prior to kickoff, and they're a ghost town at that point. Opening them earlier wouldn't help. Michigan Stadium is also nearly 50% larger than Notre Dame stadium, so the same number of gates (4) perhaps indicates a problem (with Michigan Stadium).
August 1st, 2010 at 11:36 PM ^
Gates open 2 hours before kickoff, FYI.
2.5 hours for the suite owners...
its more like 35% but thats why I think its more of a staffing issue for the size of the stadium. Seems like I passed a lot more ushers at ND for it being so much smaller. Last year there were 3-4 guys outside the gate directing people, then like 8 at the turnstiles and then to either side 2 tables with around 4 people each for bag checks. Last time I was at UM it was the ticket checkers and a few tables in the middle, with about 4-6 people checking bags.
That was before the new bag policy last year so maybe things have changed but just my 2 cents.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:34 PM ^
But they never say the real reason why it's not allowed. This will cause me to think twice about buying tickets. This policy would never be implemented if we were drawing 70k per game. Come on DB, you are a savvy guy, doing the right thing.
When I was in school, I used to bring two water bottles. It takes a lot of energy to actually try and make the big house loud. You lose a lot of fluids screaming all game! The sun takes its effect over four hours. It's not easy getting out of the bowl, hello!!! More people will have to act like the blue hairs.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:02 PM ^
Okay I understand being upset and all, but your really going to think twice about buying tickets? Seriously? Just hydrate before the game, grab something to drink at halftime, and you'll be able to scream all you want . This little policy shouldn't stop you from buying tickets to the greatest sporting event in the country.
August 1st, 2010 at 10:39 PM ^
maybe the people from the Athletic Department need to sit in the stands in about row 5 with the sun beating on them all day when its 90 outside and feels like 110 in the stadium, and then see if they want to climb over everyone, and up the stairs, miss the game and get a 9 oz cup of water then climb back down to their seat just to realize that 9 oz cup of water has had no effect
August 1st, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^
They should have one gate that allows sealed water bottles, and everyone who doesn't have them could go through the other gates.
That is the best idea I have heard so far. That way, people either choose to wait longer in line to bring their bottles in, or they choose to get in faster and get the free 9 oz cups inside.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:06 PM ^
August 1st, 2010 at 11:12 PM ^
This is why cargo shorts were invented...
August 1st, 2010 at 11:22 PM ^
that will be snuffed out by the cops real quick...Cops can easily tell if there is a bottle in your jacket or pants. I would know and have a $125 ticket to prove it.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
I assume you received a ticket because there was alcohol in that container? If all you had was water then you could just play the old "Oh, didn't know they weren't allowed in anymore" card.
not my finest moment...
August 1st, 2010 at 11:29 PM ^
This is my back-up plan. Probably an empty bottle though so that it doesn't weigh down on the fabric and show strain, indicating that there is something in them.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:15 PM ^
will someone give me the email to the athletic department? I'm about to email their asses and advise friends and family members to do the same.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:17 PM ^
[email protected] goes directly to the email the response came from. Or there is the online form at http://www.mgoblue.com/feedback/mich-feedback.html
August 1st, 2010 at 11:19 PM ^
Well he stated in the E-Mail that they knew it would be unpopular. I'm not going to waste my time.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:23 PM ^
I understand being a little bit upset, but is it really that tough to go 1.5 hours without water? The "outrage" to this policy seems a bit much, IMO.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:26 PM ^
I'm not really outraged. Just a little annoyed more than anything.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:28 PM ^
well in 90 degree weather that is common for the start of the season it is.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:44 PM ^
How many Michigan games have you been to that lasted 1.5 hours?
August 2nd, 2010 at 12:31 AM ^
Halftime?
August 1st, 2010 at 11:24 PM ^
Honestly I don't think this has anything to do with profit or with time. I think this is all security theater - the appearance of having tough security even if it doesn't have a whole lot of teeth. The reality is it's not difficult to get contraband into Michigan Stadium - it's not like they give you a pat down or anything. The number of people I've seen drinking Jack Daniels out of lemon ice cups demonstrates this. But "security" policies like this make grandma feel better and deter dumb criminals / terrorists (which make up >95% of all criminals / terrorists). They do similar crap at the airport, obviously.
As far as the evil profit motive, I guess I don't see it - how much does the University stand to make off of extra water bottle sales? Aren't most of the concessions run by outside vendors? Do these guys pay a fee based on sales? I would suspect that most pay a flat fee to get to operate, in which case the University has only minimal incentive to increase their sales.
None of this means the policy makes sense, but I don't think it means the University is trying to screw everybody.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:44 PM ^
Aren't most of the concessions run by outside vendors?
Pretty sure that is the case. The U doesn't run the concession stands, per se. Some company runs the majority of them, I forget the name.
August 2nd, 2010 at 11:41 AM ^
And there may have been a lil "Sweet-n-Lo" in their contract that the AD would include bottled water in the ever lengthening list of things you can't bring into the stadium.
August 1st, 2010 at 11:35 PM ^
FWIW, my repsonse to rob:
"Rob,
I do appreciate you taking the time to respond to me. I understand and appreciate that there will be several places to get water within Michigan Stadium this year. I am grateful for that. However, as you are probably very aware, the design of Michigan Stadium is such that often times the largest back-ups are not at the exterior gates to enter Michigan Stadium, but at the entrances to each section. These lines can sometimes take 5 minutes to get through. So it is only with the greatest reluctance that I ever leave my seat during a game. During the hot September months, the new policy would probably require me to leave my seat at least 2-3 times in order to stay hydrated with only 9 oz cups. That means spending time away from the action and away from cheering on our players in the Maize and Blue.
Is there any chance that the policy could be amended to allow in empty water bottles? It would be easy for fans to hold them upside down without a cap on to demonstrate that there is no liquids in them that might cause security problems. Then fans could fill them up at the water fountains before the action starts.
All I'm asking for is a policy that would allow me to stay hydrated at the games without missing the action, which I feel I pay a good deal of money for.
Many thanks for taking the time to respond."
EDIT: I got an out of office reply. He'll be back in on Monday...
August 2nd, 2010 at 12:11 AM ^
Got the same e-mail as most of you and wrote a similar response.
My biggest problem is that they basically want us to use the free cups, which will last all of a minute or two since they're just cups and can't be closed or anything and will force fans to miss parts of the game. As others have said, if you're down close to the field, it's going to take some time to hike up to the concourse, find a free cup, get it filled, and return to your seat. Obviously that ain't gonna happen, because I'm not about to miss any of the game.
All I can say is I can't wait to hear my voice after games if I go without water. Usually it starts to go by halftime if I don't have water, so this will be interesting.
I am strongly concerned about the health of our fans especially the elderly and young children during the early season games. It can approach above 90 in the stadium. To stay adequately hydrated, the American Medical Association, recommends an individual drink half of their weight in oz. For a 150 lb person this is 75 oz, so ~8 of the 9 oz cups they will give out for free. With the extreme bottleneck in the aisles of the stadium, most fans will not get enough hydration to stave off dehydration and heat exhaustion and possibly heat stroke at worst. All it is going to take is one fan to pass out from dehydration to open up the athletic department to litigation.
I refuse to buy the bottleneck concern at the gates the university brings up as a reason closed water bottles was banned. with the large number of volunteers checking water at the gates the past seasons, there has been little if any hindrance to fans entering the stadium grounds.
I replied to Rob and wrote a similar message. Allowing empty nalgene and aluminum bottles will easily address the concerns this ban brings about. Even TSA allows empty nalgene and aluminum bottles past security checks.
I will close by quoting Benjamin Franklin, "They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
If your so concerned why don't you just get there early and buy a water bottle or two before the game starts. Then you dont have to leave your seat and your health won't in a dire situation.
Lets see I am a poor married graduate student (my wife is also a student) after the AD forced me to buy both hockey and football tickets at the same time to maintain my seating priority. I can barely afford to park, let alone pay $4 for a 12 oz bottle of water inside the stadium. My wife and I would go to Meijers the night before and buy 64 oz bottles of aquafina to take into the stadium. During the first couple of games, those bottles would be empty by halftime. We all cannot afford to pay the ridiculous markup on concessions at the stadium.
I will tell you from my experiences from the past, you can drink all the water you want before the game. You will just piss it out in the urinal by time gametime starts. With the bottlenecking in the aisles (and other students from stealing your seat), most students are discouraged from leaving their seat. What about those with disabilities? This is definitely a concern for the handicap. I am aghast the university is this short sighted. I shouldn't be surprised though considering the University attempted to pass off the renovations as a repair to get around the Americans with Disabilities Act.
August 2nd, 2010 at 12:14 AM ^
How does a water bottle have anything to do with security? It just doesn't make sense. These types of things are bullshit and I call it how I see it.
They dont allow water bottles or any fluid in greater quantities than a few ounces past the security checkpoint.
There have been security concerns that flammable liquids can be disguised as water or soda and be used as a weapon.
I dislike the fear of terrorism argument for these policies but it is the world we live in today.
If you honestly believe that then I suggest you look at the mysterious building # 7. But as a Michigan grad I suspect you've had enough physics education to have already figured it out.
The world we live in... stranger than fiction