Discuss any possibilities you want here. There's about 15 different threads reviewing theories and they can all just be centralized here.
that is nice bonus change
I think that one was a given. He's now a starter and a necessary anchor in the secondary.
It's just that CC isn't really in the discussion of "can this guy play corner." He HAS TO play corner. Ready or not, good or bad, hell or high water. I'd be okay if the coaches wrapped him in bubble-wrap from now until September 4th.
What is important is not having one really good guy starting at any given position, but having depth, e.g. a group of 2-3 players pushing each other for time, each capable of handling the responsibilities of the position if the guy in front of him goes down. This is how Oklahoma had injury armageddon last year and still finished a very strong 8-5, less than 10 total points from likely winning the Big 12: their backups are almost as good as the starters.
The problem for us right now is there are not enough warm bodies on our CB depth chart. No one is saying this offensive convert is going to start, but we need to start training someone in the likely event that another injury occurs at some point in the season or one of the starters gets tired at some point, in some game, and needs to rest.
I'd take an elite starter over depth any day. Depth is nice when injuries hit, but your starter should be able to play 90% of meaningful snaps at a position like CB.
that you're fine with what had just happened? Personally, I would have liked to have seen some depth.
Have the the coaches released the depth chart?
Are we going based on talent? If so, are we just ignoring the Campbell, Turner, etc. examples?
a) We have early returns from coaches and players that he looks good, as well as comments from FormerWolv, who saw him in person.
b) If you can show me a depth chart that doesn't include CC as a starter (or at the VERY least a 3rd/nickel DB), and that doesn't make Henri weep (even harder), I'll give you Eleventy Billion MGoPoints.
So yeah, it's not a "given," (much like Sheridan wasn't a "given" to ride the pine last year) but CC is going to line up for the first snap against UConn... unless Angry Michigan Secondary Hating God gets to him first.
A fan-generated depth chart has as much value as my prediction for wins this season (7 before Wolfdoom, 6 after)...roughly none.
I agree that CC is the most likely candidate to start, but past experience says that making confident predictions about incoming freshman is pretty foolish.
I would agree. But when your choices are (a) highly touted, yet unproven, freshman at his original position, or (b) the player who volunteers when the coach asks "hey, who thinks they can learn to play corner in two weeks?"... I'm not JamieMac, but I'll put my money on (a).
At this time last year, our best guess at top impact freshman would have included Justin Turner, Will Campbell, and Brendan Gibbons. It probably would NOT have included Roh. We'd have been dead wrong.
We can say Christian is going to be better than Avery, Talbott, Rogers, etc. but we have no idea if thats how things will play out.
I'd include Teric Jones on the list but I've watched him try to play CB against WMU....
At corner we had Warren, Cissoko, Floyd, and Woolfolk (eventually), so the question was "can Turner beat these guys for a spot"? This year, who does CC have to beat to become a starter? Courtney Avery, Terrance Talbot, Teric Jones, James Rogers, and whatever other warm bodies the coaches find.
I'm not an insider or a prognosticator. But CC will be a starter.
that Turner was beaten out by Teric Jones...a freshly minted position switch from offense. I think most people were assuming Turner was ahead of Floyd last year for the 3rd CB spot, but that clearly wasn't the case.
The only reason to list CC ahead of Avery or Talbott is recruiting hype. We've seen that hype to be a pretty weak indicator for who is ready as a freshman to contribute.
We've seen highly regraded recruits sit while walk-ons, position switches, and trainwrecks play ahead of them.
From FormerWolv's practice musings last week:
That was one of the few points he made. It's obviously not a direct comparison to Talbott and Avery, but it certainly suggests he's performing well and should see the field. And, he said that before the Woolfolk injury.
but I'll take it as a given that he starts right after I hear the coaches say so
I'm not asking you to do anything. I just passed along some evidence that he's doing well and that he was likely to see the field before the Woolfolk injury...according to someone who's seen practice. You can do what you want with it. I just found it helpful and encouraging.
it is indeed an encouraging sign or at least its better than hearing something bad
Any Duke basketball players laying around with a year of eligibility left.
I think some of the new freshmen safties will have help out, Carvin, Ray, and Marvin (although I think he has a shot to get some time at safety this year, CB is now in more dire need this year).
I don't know how T-Rob hasn't gotten more play here. Plays at a position w/depth, fast, shifty, questionable hands. Isn't that the prototype?
JT Floyd and Cullen Christian or Teric Jones. I would be surprised if it was anything else.
our comprades over at maizenbrew have a rational look at the big picture and what we're working with currently, without anyone switching (except teric jones switching back from safety):
That was good at calming me down (for the moment). Thanks, good link.
So my thread with tons of logical reasons for Denard Robinson is going to be deleted offhand?
And I'm not saying your thread should have been deleted. But I feel comfortable in the prediction that we're not going to play our (likely) starting quarterback on the defensive side of the ball.
Your sarcasm meter needs to get charged up.
Yep. There it is. Mea culpa. Looks like I've been more affected than I thought by the general bloodymindedness of the universe.
Yeah, I should have used Will Campbell. It's been a rough 24 hours.
might be the worst part. At some point since yesterday afternoon, I thought to myself "I wonder if we should line up our starting quarterback as a corner, too." And that idea didn't seem batshit insane.
Zack Freakin' Novak
Watching Novak and Vinopal in the same secondary together would be like eating an unwashed lettuce sandwich in a wind-storm in the Sahara.
You're like the slot-ninja of words.
Talented DB based on recruiting rankings. Issues have been mental, not physical. Perhaps CB is a better fit, even if his physical attributes aren't ideal...
is the simplified defense with heavier reliance on what we're hoping are more capable LBs. one would hope he could step up in an easy zone.
I think its time that RR or his coaches need to start hanging out in the track and field building.There were quite a few guys that ran with D-Rob during track season. Find someone else who can run fast enough to keep up with WR's and wouldn't mind throwing a hand in their face. When ND tries to pick apart our secondary they would have a big surprise....just a thought
He still has a year left. (A man can dream right?)
(sigh) but seriously... I think we have to look at a guy like Drew "The Real Dealio" who's primary position would be PR/KR but have the ability to mix in some DB work... this is unreal. Truly unreal.
It's not like we're counting on them in their current positions.
that most of us think that the sky is falling, lets just revamp the d alignment all together.
Lets go with a 5-5-1. that way we really dont need a secondary.
So here we go the new and improved starting D
banks, Big Will, sagesse, martin, RVB
mouton, fitz, ezeh, demons, robinson
I am jokking if this isnt clear.
... and two years of eligibility left, currently at Tatooine Tech, I believe:
Fluid hips, good with his hands, big enough to jam receivers... but I worry about top-end speed.
...at least this year we have actual scholarship players that we can throw out there. Granted, they aren't exactly experienced but at least there are options. And a little bit of time to get it sorted out too. Last year when Boo Boo self destructed, it was a matter of duct taping things together as quickly as possible.
Embrace the chaos, my friends. And dear offense: please score a lot of points.
Weren't Woolfolk and Warren our CBs last year?
At safety you had to rely on Kovacs and unproven but well regarded recruits (Williams, Emilien, etc.)
I don't see how the options / depth is improved this year. Our two best defensive backs (three if you include Brown) are gone, replaced by position switches (Gordon) and true freshman.
You're right about it being beneficial to have a couple weeks to sort things out, but its not like another injury or off-field situation is ruled out.
Technically Woolfolk started last year as a safety.
We lost four DBs from last year (Boo Boo, Warren, Woolfolk and Turner) but added six scholarship DBs with this recruiting class (Avery, Christian, Johnson, M Robinson, Talbott, Vinopal) plus two position changes (C Gordon and Rogers moved back from Wide Receiver). Everyone else who stuck around (Vlad, Floyd, etc.) is a year older.
I'm probably forgetting people but right there you're up four DBs from last year, with added experience for the youngins from last year. I'll grant you that Woolfolk is a better DB than any of the six we added, but at least this year we have warm bodies.
You're including the Stevie Brown LB/S spot, so you need to include Brown as a departure. If not, Williams and T.Gordon have shifted to that spot, so should count as departures too.
Regardless of the exact number of scholarship players at this position or that, I have a hard time viewing true freshman (especially guys like Vinopal) as a significant improvement to depth relative to walk-ons. Especially when we saw these same walk-ons play ahead of last year's true freshman and now have another year of experience.
Furthermore, Warren and Woolfolk were guys that could be relied on to play nearly full time. Its doubtful that inexperienced young players will be able to match that situational flexibility or conditioning level. In other words, you'll need two guys just to get even...
I agree that safety is deeper and more experienced than last year, but CB is obviously not. It seems that in general the fanbase is quick to forget their disappointments for incoming freshman and even quicker to reassign their hopes on the newest batch.
I'm sorry that sophmores, redshirts and true freshmen are unknowns. What do you want to do, trade someone to the Jets for Darelle Revis?
What do you want? Kittens? Will kittens make you happy? Here, have some goddamn kittens:
RichRod. He played DB didn't he? I hear he's a heady player who could end up coaching some day.
big will campbell. shove the WR down at the LOS, sit on him. done.
the DL and the LB's are the unit that is going to have to step it up the most. and fill the void left by the Woolfolk injury