(OFFICAL per fox sports) ND suspends 3 starters, 1 backup for academic fraud
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=109&f=2594&t=13053689
http://www.uhnd.com/bb/forum/index.php?action=display&forumid=6&msgid=2…
http://notredame.247sports.com/Board/87/Contents/Staff-Academic-Issue-R…
http://www.irishenvy.com/forums/notre-dame-football/203702-rumored-viol…
Supposedly, 3 starters, 1 backup
again, rumor, but "Hearing Moore (backup LB), Ishaq (starting DE), Daniels (starting wideout), and Russell (starting CB)... FWIW"
UPDATE
Leading story is a female tutor doing players' homework in exchange for....services. If true, players will likely be expelled. Also potential for vacating 2012 "Return to glory" version 5.0 season.
UPDATE #2
The four alleged players were not seen at ND practice today, which is the first official reporting suggesting some truth the rumors.
http://notredame.247sports.com/Bolt/Players-Missing-From-Fridays-Practi…
UPDATE #3
Yahoo Sports sources: Academic probe underway at Notre Dame involving football players. Story: http://yhoo.it/1oOXKnQ
Now official per fox sports
http://www.foxsports.com/college-football/story/notre-dame-fighting-iri…
August 15th, 2014 at 12:02 PM ^
Oh snap.
August 15th, 2014 at 3:43 PM ^
First you're chickens.
Now you're cheats.
Can't wait to punch these guys out in a couple of weeks and then send them off our collective radar for good.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
Considering how ND claims to give academics a lot of attention in their program, what happens to these guys over the long term will be very telling. EDIT: Some talk about inelgible players and vacating wins, possibly. We'll see.... May overshadow our 2 new Home/Home series news? /s
August 15th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 12:10 PM ^
Let's be fair: If this is true, it gives credibility to the idea that Notre Dame takes academics seriously. Remember when Auburn and LSU had to sit all those guys for academic issues? Of course not, because... obviously.
Notre Dame takes academics seriously, thus guys who don't make the grade actually sit out, even if they were going to be a starting quarterback. It's like sports that take doping seriously--the ones that do actually catch people juicing. The ones that don't never have a positive test ever, because they aren't actually trying to suppress it.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
And that's why I tabled it with, "If they take it seriously..." then what actuatlly happens to these individuals over the long term will be telling. If they're suspended for a year like Gholson was, then its consistent. If anything less, and considering how serious the infractions are, who knows. No judgment from me, just an interest in what happens next.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^
It depends on what the issues are. The general consensus was that Gholson was caught cheating, not so much a grades issue. I suspect that most schools are more aggressive in punishing cheating than punishing students who fail to meet certain grade standards.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:27 PM ^
I think he admitted as much...
August 15th, 2014 at 12:49 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 12:15 PM ^
This would only be true if EVERYONE were complicit. If offenders continuously get caught, it only means that at least part of the whole is functional. The culture that breeds the offenses still exists.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^
Given what surveys say about rampant cheating and plagiarism throughout American academia, the culture is pretty much ubiquitous in this country. I think that's bad, by the way. I don't think we can consider Notre Dame worse than most other places, just better at actually dealing with what they find.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:34 PM ^
given what surveys say about rampant cheating and plagiarism throughout American academia, the culture is pretty much ubiquitous in this country. I think that's bad, by the way. I don't think we can consider Notre Dame worse than most other places, just better at actually dealing with what they find.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:23 PM ^
to the idea ND takes seriously that those who aren't academically eligible will be suspended etc. But let's not get ahead of ourselves and give them credit for the punishment phase and extrapolate that out to taking academics serious. If they were taking academics serious wouldn't it follow they wouldn't have players in academic trouble?
You implied, using Auburn and LSU as examples, that if a school isn't suspending players for academic problems they A) Don't take academics serious and B) They're hiding something. Fine, using that logic does that mean Michigan doesn't take player academics serious and is Michigan hiding something? I'm sure you didn't, but that's where your logic was leading.
I think what we have going on here is that ND the school takes academics far more serious than ND the football program.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
Tate Forcier, Demar Dorsey and a couple other RR recruits with acedemic issues so IDK what your point is
August 15th, 2014 at 12:42 PM ^
What I was doing was refuting the idea that Notre Dame must be a hotbed of academic dishonesty because they catch people engaging in it, when in fact catching people involved in it is a sign they take it seriously. I used Auburn and LSU as examples of schools widely believed to be engaged in unethical practices who probably don't take class all that seriously--they don't seem to have a lot of academic scandals, and that's not necessarily a sign that they are morally superior in this area.
This can be a key issue, because if people bash schools who catch cheaters while assuming that schools who don't catch them are clean, the net effect is that schools will actually enhance their academic reputation by covering up scandals and acting like they don't exist. That was a serious problem with doping in cycling, for example--the UCI did not want Lance Armstrong to test positive because it would taint the public image of the sport. As a result, the sport was much dirtier.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:59 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 2:07 PM ^
Maybe a little too strong in ND's case.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:44 PM ^
Well said. This is one of the reasons I'm going to miss this rivalry.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:50 PM ^
Good for ND... and good for UM for having those standards. But shame on the "student-athletes" that forget to study.
UM has graduated 69 of 69 seniors since Hoke started. This will be 4 starters that ND had to suspend for academics. I like this trend.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:22 PM ^
I know you didn't exactly say this, but "rooting" for student/athletes of a rival to fail in the classroom is very disappointing to hear.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:44 PM ^
I root for my team to win. I never root for any person to fail off the field to help my team get that win. That's just petty.
And "rooting" for someone to fail won't work unless you actually know voo-doo or are a diety. I don't and am not, so, I won't waste my time.
But never forget that these are grown men and they are capable of making the right decision in life. I never hope for individual failure, however, if York or these ND players fail to make the right decisions then they face the consquences. And how that shapes their team is also a consequence.
Rooting for failure? No. Acknowledging the effects of one's failure? Just factual observation.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:51 PM ^
any dietys, not even to beat ND.
August 15th, 2014 at 2:17 PM ^
"i" before "e" except after "c" unless spelling Deity.
August 15th, 2014 at 2:21 PM ^
or Beilein
August 15th, 2014 at 3:51 PM ^
While I look for a pencil, go take a closer look at your post - it will be easy to find, it is right above my reply.
http://mgoblog.com/mgoboard/offical-fox-sports-nd-suspends-3-starters-1…
August 15th, 2014 at 4:52 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 2:36 PM ^
They didn't fail, they cheated.
It's not like they tried their hardest and studied as much as possible just to come up short. It's the exact opposite, actually. I don't feel bad for them at all.
August 15th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^
Technically, they failed at cheating, so ....
August 15th, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^
They booted their starting QB who went 12-0 off of the team for cheating on a test.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:11 PM ^
between not making the grade and CHEATING. Then again, I guess if you're not going to the make it may be what caused you to cheat.
If you read some of the comments further down it sounds as if an academic advisor may have been fudging grades in 2012 and they may be vacating wins for playing ineligible players. One poster was very upset as Brian Kelly was suppose to get their academic standards "dumbed down" so they could get more 5 stars.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:29 PM ^
I agree with your point generally, but if the rumors reported by the OP are true, this goes somewhat beyond cheating. I would think most schools would treat trading "services" for schoolwork a bit more seriously than "someone did a term paper for me because I'm on the FB team." It is a bit more unseemly when there is a quid pro quo.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:09 PM ^
happen at every school, including Michigan, you are mistaken. Of course, its the same with players getting $ from boosters. No program can claim to be 100% clean. What separates the good programs from the bad, is the culture they establish, including what they do to those found to guilty of violating the rules.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:33 PM ^
at least 2 posters have their heads in the sand. Cheating happens at every institution by athletes and non-athletes alike. No school or team can stop it 100% of the time from ocurring. What matters is what each school does to prevent it in the first place and what they do once it is discovered to have ocurred. I would hope and expect that Michigan would handle such an incident appropriately.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
Would be funny if Golson's one of them.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:17 PM ^
Or, extremely sad. Knowing that the kid didn't take advantage of a massive second chance.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^
If the "Daniels" mentioned in the OP is DeVaris Daniels, then it is definitely sad because - if there is something going on here and his name did indeed turn up - this was his second chance actually. He was suspended in the winter for failing to maintain academic eligibility along with ND hoops standout Jerian Grant.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:37 PM ^
His name hasn't come up in the rumor mill, but Daniels has and he's already missed a year due to academics so it's almost as bad.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:03 PM ^
/Everett Golson'd
August 15th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
considered a bad thing.
Don't get me wrong, I hope we hang fifty on them this year.
I probably shouldn't assume this is self reported since this thread is the first I've heard about this, though.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:05 PM ^
August 15th, 2014 at 12:08 PM ^
Does Sylvia or Ina have to go?
August 15th, 2014 at 12:13 PM ^
I don't get this reference.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:16 PM ^
and Google was no help
August 15th, 2014 at 12:20 PM ^
but I think he meant Irish. They don't have go to class either, in comparison to Malik McDowell who was reportedly told by some other sparty players that going to class was considered "optional" for football players.
August 15th, 2014 at 12:32 PM ^
I think everyone reading this thread realizes that he meant Irish. I just don't get the other two names.
August 15th, 2014 at 1:12 PM ^
Just doin' my best here...