O-line next year
So with Molk and Huyge departing after this year what will next years line look like?
Departure of Molk -
Most would expect that Koury would be the starting center next year. We will probably run an offense similar to what we ran this year as it will be still be the Denard show. Koury was recruited to play in the spread system and got a ton of reps last Spring when Molk was still recovering from injury.
Departure of Huyge -
First of all I think Huyge has been one of the most plaeasant surprises of the entire year. No one has really said anything about him the entire year which is usually the barometer that we judge line play on. Not bad for a last second MAC pickup that we took because of depth. I would figure that Schofield would move outside to RT and Barnum would take over at LG.
After this we have Miller, Mealer, and Bryant filling out the scholarship players. Any idea as to the development of Miller needing size or Bryant needing to lose size? Will Kalis play as a Freshman?
Ideas?
December 6th, 2011 at 2:04 PM ^
A line of Lewan - Barnum - Khoury - Omameh - Schofield sounds fine to me, with Magnuson - Kalis - Miller - Bryant - Garnett (yeah?) filling out the two-deep.
I didn't know Miller needing size was a development. He definitely does need more weight.
I would also imagine that the issue of Bryant needing to "lose size" is not a development either. Both of those things have been known since August.
Will Kalis play as a freshman? It depends on injuries and whether he beats out a returning starter, doesn't it?
December 6th, 2011 at 2:40 PM ^
Right, he knew that too about Miller and Bryant. He was asking if there had been any progress in losing or gaining size.
To which I would answer that most of that progress happens in the offseason.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:40 PM ^
I don't think Barnum would move to center given the extreme number of shotgun snaps in the offense. I think there might be a slight chance of Omameh moving to tackle, however. Aside from incoming freshmen it seems that he would be the #3 tackle anyway if Lewan or Schofield got hurt.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:11 PM ^
your first string sounds ok, but having THREE true freshman on the 2-deep is just asking for trouble.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:09 PM ^
Personally, I hope Kalis does not have to play this next season. He is supposedly the most college ready, but I would rather him RS and get ready to be a starter in 2013. I like seeing OL getting that RS year to get in shape to play college football and learn the offense. But if need be, because of injury or Kalis is just that much better than the rest, he could be a guy that starts toward the end of the season. I would rather not see that though.
Mealer hasn't shown much in the small sample size that we have, but he could be a solid backup. Bryant is another guy I would like to see sit behind Barnum and Omameh until 2013, when we go into a more road grader type of offense (only my speculation though).
Time will tell, but I don't think the OL will be bad next year. My starting OL is: Lewan, Barnum, Khoury, Omameh, Schofield. With Mealer, Miller and Bryant getting some spot duty. I could see Schofield play LT, with Omameh sliding out to RT, and Mealer / Bryant / Miller filling in in case of injury.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:20 PM ^
If Kalis is as good as we hear he is, you might as well let him play in 2012, because Michigan probably won't have him around for a redshirt senior season.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:33 PM ^
I am all for him playing if he is better than our currect backups. But if he is not, then I would rather not see his RS be burned if he can be a staple on our OL for 2013 as a RS freshman, through 2015 as a RS junior. But looking at our depth at OL, I doubt he does RS. It would have been nice if we had more depth, but that's cause has been mentioned hundreds of times.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:42 PM ^
I think Kalis may be better suited for our offense in 2013. I don't think he was necessarily recruited as a good fit for the Denard spread system. Could be very useful situationally however.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:52 PM ^
If Kalis is as good as we hear he is, you might as well let him play in 2012, because Michigan probably won't have him around for a redshirt senior season.But how often do offensive linemen go pro early? I'm hard-pressed to think of many.
December 6th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^
December 6th, 2011 at 7:19 PM ^
Orlando Pace, if I remember correctly.
December 6th, 2011 at 6:17 PM ^
You should never assume that an incoming recruit who hasn't played a down is going to be good enough to go pro early, and as noted above it's rare for OL to leave early. Very few true freshman OL are ready to take on D-I opponents in any case. Kalis should play if he's needed, but hopefully he won't be.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:58 PM ^
If he shows up in practice, Hoke will play him. If he's as ready as the scouts say he is, he will at least be on the 2 deep. Kinda sad to see EM nowhere to be found though.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:54 PM ^
as good as kalis is, there's a reason that very few frosh OL play. the game is just so much faster and that takes some getting used to. on the other hand, if kalis is as good as advertised, you want to use him while you can because you never know if he'll leave early.
December 6th, 2011 at 8:17 PM ^
I always wondered if that made the decision fo transfer just a little easier; to use a redshirt year for his transfer year. Is that how it worked with Boren? I think so -- he was a freshman in '06; a redshirt transferee in '08, played as a RSJr. in '09 and a RSSr. in '10. Right?
December 6th, 2011 at 2:16 PM ^
Have we seen Khoury at all?
I think the rest of the O-line - guards and tackles - will be fine. But the drop-off from Molk to Khoury frightens me.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM ^
When Molk went down 2 years ago.. The Sparty game
December 6th, 2011 at 3:03 PM ^
when Molk was hurt under Rodriguez. He seemed decent but a clear downgrade from Molk - hard to tell, because who isn't?
Khoury provides depth at both center or guard, but he hardly played this year so maybe the new staff doesn't love him.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:04 PM ^
That could be true, but everyone knew that Scholfield was the first backup at all positions except for center.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:17 PM ^
| Khoury | 10 | 7.5 | 2.5 | Had his share of issues but was not a liability; backup situation this year so much better than the Moosman shuffle last year. |
Backs up that assesment of Khoury. By the start of next season he will have almost two additional years since then to imporve. He can't replace Molk; no one can, but he will be solid and if someone beats him out for the spot, they will presumably have to be better than solid .
Its a big if, but even with Molk gone I think the line will be very good, IF they stay healthy.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:22 PM ^
"Losing Molk was a chunk of that. While Khoury didn't seem out of place he's the backup for a reason and his lack of experience contributed to a couple of screwups; the occasional iffy snap that threw timing off was not included in the numbers. I don't think I saw him get a tough seal like this all day:
(No need to embed, easy enough to picture awesome Molk reach block)
Even so a redshirt sophomore backup notching a positive number against Iowa's veteran, deep line is encouraging."
December 6th, 2011 at 2:25 PM ^
that miller is going to be a four year starter.
information from a team manager.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:48 PM ^
but I think that always has its way of playing out during practices, and more importantly, actual game performance. I don't take even serious inside sources too seriously. Even if this info turns out to be true, the only opinion that matters is Hoke's, and of course he'll put out whomever performs the best, nothing less.
December 6th, 2011 at 5:00 PM ^
December 6th, 2011 at 5:57 PM ^
Barnum slides over to tackle if there is an issue with the starters - and either Bryant or Khoury replace him at OG.
I think Gunderson/Glasgow are unlikely to have an impact until 2013 at the earliest. By that year Lewan could be in the NFL and they'd only have to beat out one or two freshman to enter the 2-deep.
Schofield and Barnum have practiced at multiple spots but isn't the Omameh to tackle talk purely hypothetical?
December 6th, 2011 at 8:59 PM ^
Although I have also heard that Barnum can play tackle, Omameh to tackle makes more sense because (a) he's not as good at OG as Barnum, and (b) he has more of a tackle body since he's taller and has longer arms than Barnum. I suppose it doesn't matter much if both can do it, but it sounds like Omameh might simply be a better tackle than guard, not the case with Barnum.
December 6th, 2011 at 2:31 PM ^
Are any of the walk-ons ready to make the 2-deep?
December 6th, 2011 at 3:01 PM ^
Four of the OL starters are all but set. Counting both Barnum and Schofield, there are four returning starters. While there's some talk of Omameh becoming a 6th-man, I find it unlikely that a 5th year player with his proven ability will get displaced. Coaches favor seniors and experience.
So, who will be the 5th starter? The general assumption is that Khoury or Miller will ascend to replace Molk, but there's a good deal of position flexibility. Schofield and Barnum can play guard or tackle. Barnum seems versatile enough to move to center if Khoury or Miller prove to be weak links. If that's the case, a spot opens for a freshman (or Bryant) to move in at either tackle or guard. In other words, the best 5 guys will play.
I think a freshman is almost certain to play. Hopefully it's just one. But with only 8 returning scholarship players, they would need good fortune in terms of attrition/health to not use a freshman or walk-on next year. They're particularly thin at tackle where Mealer or Barnum will be the top backups and they're probably better fits at guard.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:10 PM ^
Were there any reports saying that Barnum can play center, or is that just your assumption?
December 6th, 2011 at 3:17 PM ^
IIRC, someone on the coaching staff said Barnum could play any position on OL, and I assumed that included Center.
But even if it was my assumption, generally speaking, most guards can move to center, because snaping the ball isn't the hardest thing in the world. It's common for people who've never snapped the ball in high school to be developed into centers at the next level. You'll deal with some muffed snaps due to inexperience (like we did when Khoury replaced Molk) but it won't grind your offense to a halt. Some guys will be inexpt at it, but I belive that's uncommon.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:43 PM ^
I guess you don't remember when Mooseman had to come in to snap because of Molk's injury then. It pretty much grinded out offense to a halt.
December 6th, 2011 at 5:02 PM ^
I haven't been impressed with Barnum. He was a highly regarded prospect and has been a titty baby since his arrival. Kalis will steal his job at lg halfway through the Bama game.
December 6th, 2011 at 7:57 PM ^
we really missed Molk on zone runs. Moosman blocked fine, but with Molk I feel like we were almost gauranteed to have a numbers advantage on the playside. David Molk made our running game a ton better by sealing playside tackles.
Luckily we've got two good runners in the backfield and a better looking passing game heading into next year - along with four returning linemen who got significant playing time. Whomever the center is ought to not have Moosman's problems snapping - but I think it's only natural to expect our run game to be a bit less reliable early in the season.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:15 PM ^
then I think at least 1 or 2 almost have to not redshirt just to break up numbers a bit. Kalis seems like the most ready of the guys to step into the 2 deep right away but there is still a lot of time before that happens. It would be great if one of the lineman could enroll early, but I have not heard of anyone of our OL's looking to do that.
December 6th, 2011 at 3:53 PM ^
I'm not convinced he'll be back for a 5th year, however, I won't say he's leaving...so don't forget about Elliott Mealer who's seen time this year at OT and OG.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:06 PM ^
I think we can guarantee that Mealer will be back for his 5th year. Unlike SR we need all the scholarship bodies at OL.
December 6th, 2011 at 4:40 PM ^
Keep in mind we have two walk ons who have the size (and some various powerlifting and wrestling awards) to make the roster. Depending on the situation I could see both of them getting time. They'll have had the bowl practices and the spring practices to gel with their teammates, something only the EE freshman will have.
While the guys we're recruiting are better athletically, there is something to be said for having rapport with the other guys on the line, being really solid on the snap counts, and such. Be interesting to see who comes out of summer camp where.
December 6th, 2011 at 5:28 PM ^
imagining getting Banner, Diamonde and Garnett to go with Magnuson and Kalis? A Fab-5 offensive line, lol
December 6th, 2011 at 8:01 PM ^
December 6th, 2011 at 5:59 PM ^
As questionable as the O-Line is, I'm more concerned with our D-Line and our schedule. Two things may ease my worries: Dilithium and Mattison.
December 6th, 2011 at 7:06 PM ^
I'd like to know if Ash and BWC will be ready to go next season. This to me seem to be the biggest enigma come spring camp. With Pee Wee enrolling next fall...these two young men are going to be the focus of Hoke & Co after the bowl season is over.
December 6th, 2011 at 8:08 PM ^
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say Wilkens will be starting next to BWC..
December 6th, 2011 at 7:44 PM ^
going to stick for 5th year, sez they.
We'll see, sez I.
December 7th, 2011 at 12:06 AM ^