leu2500

January 10th, 2014 at 12:09 PM ^

"Hoke is a good ol' boy, affable but dumb"



Obviously Brandon had to be involved - he would have to ok the type of money um is paying nussmier



But this coaching change was played very close to the vest, and all ducks were lined up before the news broke



And that wasn't how the RR firing/hoke hire played out



What's the difference between the 2? Hoke. So maybe he had a larger role in this than some give him credit for.



MI Expat NY

January 10th, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^

I don't understand the idea that questioning whether this was Brandon's or Hoke's call is somehow implying that Hoke is dumb.  Hoke has a different perspective than the rest of us, may have been fairly insulated from the criticism, and may have placed more value on loyalty and "family atmosphere" of the coaching staff than did Brandon.  There's a hundred reasons why Hoke may not have wanted to make a change that have nothing to do with him being dumb.  Many think keeping Borges would have been a dumb move, but that doesn't remotely mean anyone thinks Hoke is actually dumb.  

We had insiders saying up until the moment this was announced that Hoke wasn't going to make any changes.  It's not unreasonable to conclude from that talk and every public statement Hoke made all year that a change wouldn't be made without Brandon stepping in.  I don't understand why it's so offensive to wonder if that's what ultimately happened.  

Reader71

January 10th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^

Wondering is one thing, but the insistence on it after Hoke and Brandon have both commented on it is kind of odd. And Sam Webb, who is himself an insider with a really strong track record believes its all Hoke.

FWIW, I know Hoke a bit although I am not privy to anything specifically relates to this, and I don't see why anyone would think he is incapable of firing someone. As an assistant, he saw a lot of staff changes. As HC, he has made plenty of changes, going so far as to have a purge at Ball State. And, a lot of people think him and Borges had some kind of super unbreakable bond, which is silly. They are both professionals. And they have been together for only 5 years. The most important think to recognize is that Hoke would probably give his life to win at Michigan, so a coordinator is no big deal.

Section 1

January 10th, 2014 at 2:51 PM ^

Can I still use that old metaphor?  How many people will get it?

What you write, sounds reasonable and credible, as usual.  I have a different take, based on no more information than what you posess.

I look back on the infamous November press release from "Brandon's Blog."  You know the one; where Brandon absolutely went off on the rumor mongers who were fucking with the commitment of Jabrill Peppers by speculating about whether Hoke would survive the year.  And Brandon -- in what I still presume was a personally-drafted and little-edited rant -- went to great lengths to praise traditional Michiganism (all the usuals Schembechler/Moeller/Carr, etc.) but omitting (even insulting) Rodriguez, and mentioning Mattison (Peppers' unit coach on defense) but omitting Borges.

I think it was weird, but explainable in the way that Brandon was crafting a message he knew he could defend as the CEO of Michigan Athletics later on.

Reader71

January 10th, 2014 at 3:06 PM ^

That's fair. I wondered, too. But Brandon said it was Hoke's call (not even a hint at collaboration, and we know Brandon likes to be seen as a hands-on guy), and Hoke said it was a tough decision. For me, its case closed. This could be because I don't much think it matters either way.

But really, my comment isn't about the actual situation, but the fact that people believe your hypothesis because they thought Hoke was incapable of firing a friend. He's done it before. He will do it in the future. He learned from Carr, who had a ton of coaches. I never understood that particular suspicion is all.

Section 1

January 10th, 2014 at 3:14 PM ^

Hard to argue with any of it.  I wouldn't.  And of course my theory -- that Brandon knew what would happen with Borges way back mid-season -- doesn't mean that Hoke wasn't the decider.

Who knows -- here's some far-afield speculation -- but that Michigan reached out to Nussmeier way back in the 2012 season, and that Saban's decision about a new OC at Alabama was made for him, or made easier?  You're right that it doesn't matter.  But I don't know how anybody who read Brandon's Blog could have been surprised by Borges' release.

 

goblueatkettering

January 10th, 2014 at 2:53 PM ^

I was merely stating that Brandon's repeated insistence (often unprompted) that this move was all Hoke makes me think it is not true. I have never and will never insinuate that Hoke is dumb.
In the end, I don't really care who's idea this was. We got what appears to be a very good, young OC who can recruit. The firing/hiring was executed (ha) very well from where I'm sitting.

Mr Miggle

January 10th, 2014 at 1:00 PM ^

First, I question whether insiders were actually saying no moves were going to be made up until it happened. Maybe I missed it, but I only heard that from skeptical posters, not insiders.

Second, it's apparent that this move was in the works for some time before it was announced. So everyone making that claim had been wrong for awhile. I don't see how it's reasonable to conclude from that who was behind the decision. 

BlueCube

January 13th, 2014 at 2:50 PM ^

any changes (not sure if he included at this time). He may have been ok with keeping Borges if he couldn't find someone who was an upgrade. When they were able to convince Nussmeier to come, they made the change. Who approached Nuss is really immaterial. I think Borges may have been told or definitely had to know that they may look to make a change.

I'm sure Brandon and Hoke consulted with each other on this. Pretty much any AD would have to be consulted because of the money involved. It's not a surprise.

BlueCube

January 13th, 2014 at 2:54 PM ^

any changes (not sure if he included at this time). He may have been ok with keeping Borges if he couldn't find someone who was an upgrade. When they were able to convince Nussmeier to come, they made the change. Who approached Nuss is really immaterial. I think Borges may have been told or definitely had to know that they may look to make a change.

I'm sure Brandon and Hoke consulted with each other on this. Pretty much any AD would have to be consulted because of the money involved. It's not a surprise.

cmgoblue

January 10th, 2014 at 11:37 AM ^

I wish someone would have asked a more pointed question regarding his departure from Alabama. I know he sidestepped a few questions that hinted at this, but with all of the rumors about a "mutual" parting, I found myself wanting to know what really happened.

jmblue

January 10th, 2014 at 12:38 PM ^

I doubt we can keep him that long.  He'll probably leave in 2-3 years to take a head coaching job.  However, if he enjoys his time here, maybe he could end up being Hoke's successor down the road anyway.

CooperLily21

January 10th, 2014 at 11:48 AM ^

Anyone know how he runs the show - does he call the plays from the sidelines a la hurry and line up to survey defense before calling plays or is he a traditional huddle-up guy?

Soulfire21

January 10th, 2014 at 11:55 AM ^

One of my favorite parts:

 

Music to my ears

Don't read most other @ESPN_BigTen tweets because they pretty much talk about how terrible Michigan is, etc.

teamgreg8

January 10th, 2014 at 12:00 PM ^

mgoblue.com's front page says there will be an archived version available at 12:30 with better audio. Internet's slow at work so I think I'll just wait until I am home. From reading this thread, I am really looking forward to Spring ball and on! 2014!!!!!!!!

Don

January 10th, 2014 at 12:01 PM ^

"We apologize for the extremely low audio level in the live version of football offensive coordinator Doug Nussmeier's press conference. An archived version with better audio will be available around 12:30 p.m."

Uper73

January 10th, 2014 at 12:04 PM ^

None of this really means squat, nor the spin we will hear in spring ball or fall camp. By the end of September we will know if there have been enough positive changes made. By the end of November we will know if they worked. Nothing less East division champs and a slot in BIG title game is acceptable in Hokes fourth year.

lazyfoot10

January 10th, 2014 at 12:22 PM ^

"Nothing less East division champs and a slot in BIG title game is acceptable in Hokes fourth year."

You might as well get the pitchforks out now. 

Look, I'm certainly more optimistic than I was a few days ago, but I'm not about to go say "East champs or bust!!!" with OSU and MSU teams that are bound to be better than us again. Plus, we play them on the road...

I just hope we look like a better team next year. 9 wins is very much a possibility on that schedule. Then the schedule gets lighter in 2015 so if things get going in the right direction again, 2 years from now could be very fun.

lazyfoot10

January 10th, 2014 at 12:47 PM ^

I mean, it's possible, but we'd have to make some serious improvements. Even if we do get to their level, again, we have to play them both on the road. Under Hoke, we have not done well on the road. 

It's probably a bit premature for all this, but honeslty, if we win one of those games next year, I'll be thrilled. 

Uper73

January 10th, 2014 at 12:59 PM ^

Understand your logic. It's his fourth year, schedule or not he should be there OR so close it's obvious the team is on an immediate path to be there. in 2015. Remember- if Hoke does not get there the next guy will want 3-5 years to "fix" it. That would be a very long down cycle. I like him and want him to do it. Yes, There will be tough teams , but I don't think a team will have to go undefeated to win the division. He has to beat either State or OSU no matter what or he will be under huge heat.

Section 1

January 10th, 2014 at 12:28 PM ^

I can't find any full video of the Rodriguez introduction from December 17, 2007.  I'd like to watch that again, to see what it was he supposedly got so egregiously wrong, compared to anything else.  I know that John U. Bacon thought that it was at least in part problematic; he's made that much clear in Three and Out.  I re-read the liveblog of it; it seems so unremarkable, except in hindsight.

I have a hard time getting to worked up, either pro or con.  It's a press conference.  I'd like to hear some good questions, and I'd like to see some good answers.

I get the distinct impression that fans, wanting so much to latch onto anything in a down time for their sport, just want some emotional connection; some personal-feeling lift.  What does he look like?  What does he sound like?  What sort of feeling am I getting?  I guess that there's a place for all of that.  But I can't imagine a more forced or artificial setting for those kinds of appraisals, than a press conference.

Odds that Nussmeier was shown a video of the Hoke press conference last night?  98%.  Odds that Nussmeier was shown the Hoke and Rodriguez videos together? 55%.