But maybe the Bulls, because I hear they once were a rival of the Pistons, and what's most important to me now is rooting against the Pistons.
one of my best friends is from SLC anyway so it'll be an easy transition
Jazz. And whoever drafts THJ
That is all
I wanted Trey Burke as much as the next guy, I was mad they didn't select him. After some time to think about it I realized I'm a huge Detroit and Michigan fan. What if Trey doesn't pan out? Not many NBA players do, so what if Trey didn't , I would much rather Trey not pan out in Utah then in Detroit. If it happens in Detroit it might tarnish my memories of his Michigan days, that's the last thing I want. If he turns out to be a great pg good job Trey nice pick up Utah, but nothing Trey can do in the NbA can trump my Michigan memories of him.
I hope you don't make all you life decisions based on the fact that "it may not pan out."
I could move out of my parents basement, but it may not pan out. I'll just stay put.
My dad's advice to me from a young age was a spin on this mantra. "Never expect anything and you'll never be disappointed." It hasn't worked out so well.
I am also a Browns fan and a Blue Jacket fan, so I am just bitter.....
When it comes to drafts, the Pistons are the Jets of the NBA.
Wow that's hilarious. I haven't seen that before
That is incredible. Someone should do that for the Lions as well... I bet its even worse of a train wreck.
Who the heck is Calvin Johnson?
remember Ralph Clayton? a big bodied, but fleet wide receiver? another Jets black hole.
Trey couldn't stay in Michigan, I'll root for him to be successful, but I'm a Piston through and through, still, I agree it's time for JoeD to step aside.
...I've been defending Dumars for years but this pick really annoys me. Right now I'm feeling like a very apathetic Pistons fan and it doesn't look like that will change anytime soon.
Just because Burke didn't go to the Pistons means us Detroiters can't root for our home team?
Shhhh...only feels now...
The Pistons join the Lions as hometown franchises that are dead to me. Go Utah Jazz and New England Patriots.
And now, the Jacksonville Jaguars as well.
For me, more than not picking Burke, it's that they threw away the pick. Just as I'm boycotting the Lions until the Ford family sells the team, tonight might be the start of my Pistons boycott until Dumars is gone.
Honest question: If you think the Pistons "threw away the pick," whom would you have preferred they selected? I was pretty upset the first few minutes after the pick, but, outside of my Wolverine fandom, and from a non-marketing standpoint, I'm not sure they made a stupid pick.
Here are the players that seemed to be realistic options at the time: Burke, MCW, Muhammad, McCollum, Pope. I like McCollum as a person, but he's a SG trapped in a PG body, which seems to be exactly what the Pistons didn't need. Muhammad has upside but is a huge risk and many had him sliding to the late teens. Most on this site were trashing MCW before the draft for various reasons. Anyway, I really wanted Burke to be on my hometown team for obvious reasons, but, aside from passing on Burke, I'm not sure this was a bad pick for the Pistons at their position in this draft.
Honestly, I would prefer Michael Carter-Williams or Shane Larkin. Michael Carter-Williams is a big point guard which the Pistons drastically need in the back court. Shane Larkin is play maker and he is a winner. Pistons lack a person who can score at will, Shane Larkin would fit that mold perfectly. Instead they took an unathletic wingman.
Most had him ranked higher than Pope, and the Pistons needed a point guard...
But they also need a shooter to stretch the floor. And I don't see Pope as being "unathletic." I only watched Georgia play once or twice, but from everything I've read Pope climbed the draft board precisely because of the quickness he showed in a number of combine drills. His slight frame is a concern, as is the diversity of offensive repertoire, but is he really "unathletic"? He's no McLemore, but, having watched his highlight videos, he seemed pretty explosive in many of his blocks and dunks this year.
You know, now that I go back and look through the players that were available, I have to agree with you. That means that I should revise my above statement to say that my problem is the combination of not picking Burke and not making the best pick. Could Caldwell-Pope turn into a really good player on the Pistons? It's possible. Do I think it's likely? Not at all. I don't trust players from bad teams in bad conferences, especially at the eighth pick in the draft. While I can't blame his team's poor performance on him, that makes me wary. Burke, on the other hand, is much more of a known quantity at a position of absolute need for the Pistons who made his team much, much better. The pick is reminiscent to me of many high picks in the Dumars era.
... If you would have told me a month ago that the Pistons drafted Pope at the eight, I would have been disappointed--and I would have been irate had I known Burke was available. And I think you're right that great players on bad teams should make one nervous. [I watch, now watched, a lot of "Big East" basketball, and I'm always skeptical of the players on Providence and Seton Hall who put up big numbers.] With that being said, Pope wasn't playing for Eastern Washington and he did win the SEC Player of the Year award as a sophomore (I think I'm getting that right). And he "isn't just a scorer." I take solace in this: the Pistons need someone who can shoot who isn't such a liability in other areas that he can't start; Pope is a very good rebounder for his position and a plus-defender.
I would hope that the number eight pick had All-Star potential, and I don't like Pope that much, but this is a weak draft at the top. If he turns into a solid starter I'll be happy.
With all that being said, losing Burke still stings.
Here's the thing for me. I can totally agree that perhaps Burke wasn't the best pick. The concept that the pistons need a point guard is highly debatable with both knight and Calderon in the fold. However was Caldwell-pope really the best option? Sure he's a good player but that shouldn't warrant a #8 selection in the draft whether its a weak year or not. Think about this. Lets just say the pistons had drafted Burke and traded him to Utah like Minnesota did. Does anybody really think Caldwell would have been taken before the pistons would have had another shot at him? I think it's pretty likely he would have been available for the first pick and maybe even the 2nd pick. How crazy is it to consider giving up that good of a pick for someone who probably should have been drafted later?
The frustrating part isn't that they didnt pick Burke but that they so easily settled for a guy who easily could have went much lower. Two 1st rd picks would have been huge for this roster and if a GM can't see that it's pretty depressing.
"Does anybody really think Caldwell would have been taken before the pistons would have had another shot at him?"
I'm either not understanding what you're arguing or we're not talking about the same guy.
The Pistons drafted Pope at 8. Nbadraft.net projected Pope to be selected at 9 by the T-wolves. Bleacher Report projected him to be selected at 9 as well. SI had him ranked as the 14th overall player, possibly the best shooter, and considered him a good pickup for the Pistons at 8. Etc.
So... it's possible that the Pistons could have gotten him lower, but, with everything that would have had to fall into place, not terribly likely (and certainly not a given).
"Two 1st rd picks would have been huge for this roster and if a GM can't see that it's pretty depressing."
Sorry, not trying to pile on, but the Pistons essentially did get two first-round picks by grabbing Tony Mitchell. I don't want to give Dumars credit for what may have been dumb luck, but the Pistons seemed to do pretty well for themselves in this draft.
We'll just assume you're right and the projections (which had been so accurate up to that point) were right on this one. Obviously, the picks would have been different had the Pistons initiated the trade, but come on, Caldwell-Pope is not a better prospect than Muhammad and Dieng. I find it hard to reason that the Pistons got the best end of the deal in this situation. Even if you are one of the guys to doubt Muhammad, he could fill the exact same role as Caldwell-Pope. So essentially, even if you view Muhammad as a downgrade (which once again is all speculation) the Pistons picked a #9 projection in a weak draft over a #14 that can fill the exact same role and a shot to pick anyone they wanted at #21 along with the guy at #14 who could easily be better than Caldwell-Pope.
Like I said, Caldwell-Pope may be a great player someday, but from a management perspective, unless this guy blows up, I just don't see how you reason that it was the right choice. Even if the Pistons had not ended up with Burke there certainly was trade interest for Burke and you're talking about an extra 1st round pick.
You also point out the Pistons practically got two 1st round picks with their selections. Ok, well how about 3? Then you don't have to take Siva at the end of the draft and instead you could have taken a guy like Larkin. I'm sorry, I would take a combination of Muhammad, Larkin, and Mitchell over Caldwell-Pope, Mitchell, and Siva any day.
EDIT: Ok, Larkin was probably not the best example, but Isaiah Canaan would have still been available, who was taken early in the 2nd round. Still an upgrade over Siva.
The Pistons absolutely do not need another big since they have Monroe and Drummond. Muhammad is a one dimensional scorer who can only go to left plus has off-field issue surrounding Muhammad. KCP is more athletic and a better shooter than Muhammad.
Both Larkin and Cannan were gone before the Pistons 2nd round pick so no way they can take them at that point. Dumb example as well. They gambled perfectly on Mitchell who has a potential to be a superstar if he get it together. Mitchell is Paul George clone IMO.
Well first off, Muhammad isn't a big. He would have played on the wing in all likelihood in Detroit. And second, I said they could have picked up Canaan if they had opted to do the Burke trade instead. They would have still had their 2nd round pick for Mitchell, but had an extra first round pick to use. I just assumed they would have used it on a point guard since that was the 3rd player they selected in the draft.
My point wasn't to argue that Muhammad is better than CP. In fact, I would probably take CP over Muhammad myself. My point that was I would not have taken CP and Siva over Muhammad AND a guy like Canaan. There isn't a big enough difference between CP and Muhammad to warrant selecting Siva at #56 instead of the #21 pick (Canaan).
I better understand the sort of trade you had in mind. I probably agree that the Pistons packaging Burke in the way Minny did for the players that they ended up drafting at 14 and 21 would have been a bigger haul of talent than CP. [If, however, they have rightly judged CP to be appreciably better than Muhammad, I'm generally not in favor of grabbing more quantity in the draft beneath the lottery selections.]
Also, just to clarify, I wasn't arguing that the Pistons made the best choice or the "right choice." I was disagreeing, first, with the earlier poster's original premise that the Pistons wasted their pick, and, secondly, I was noting that, if the Pistons had decided they really wanted CP, they were hardly guaranteed to grab him any lower, since it was commonly believed that the T-Wolves wanted him at nine. In the end, CP was considered to be in the 10-12 range in terms of talent, and since he fills a need, I think it's a sensible pick.
P.S. I think Michigan4life is referring to Dieng as the "big man" that the Pistons didn't need (not Mohammad).
Yes, that's more along the lines of my thoughts. Not convinced he fills the exact need the Pistons are looking for, but we'll have to wait and see I guess. It just gets so frustrating to see other teams make great moves and see Detroit make moves that honestly appear like settling. Best of luck to the kid, but my disappointment to skipping on doing something else is sky high.
in Tony Mitchell who is Paul George clone. I would take KCP and Mitchell over Muhammad and Cannan. Muhammad is a blackhole waiting to happen.
Muhammad was considered a bad pick by many even as low as he was picked. His stock has plummeted.
This was a rare combination where Michigan has a player who projects to be a very good starter in the league, and the pick itself would have actually made sense. If Trey had been projecting as a 2nd round pick and likely not a starter, this would have been different.
If you are honest, some douchebag will call you "overrated"...
Well, Randy: you have managed a "flamebait" and a "redundant" for this comment. I am sure your "honesty" is greatly appreciated by someone, though. Besides, the first unofficial "rule" about mgopoints is to never mention yours, especially when bitching.
Damn you've hit 10.5 K! Way to be.
Obviously we're all biased here but Joe D has been horrendous since 2004-05. Trey was being hailed as a possible #1 overall pick and he fell into the Pistons lap at #8. Stuckey, Knight and this draft pick are all shooting guards...awesome.
Absolutely for me... Joe gotta go!
Guess I'll only go to one Pistons game next year.
You mean the one with Vanilla Ice performing at halftime. The Red Dragon only performs for Gold Standard teams like Michigan.
People quickly reasoned that it's best for Michigan players to not be cursed by playing for the Ford family.
Utah Jazz. They have my favorite player. That easy.
Joe D is terrible. He was fortunate to have Knight and Drummond fall in his lap and he didn't blow it, but this year he straight screwed up. He has no business being a GM. None.
I'd rather cheer for the Heat than the Pistons.