http://twitter.com/PreSnapRead/statuses/245879343249780737
"RT @McMurphyESPN Notre Dame will join ACC as full member w/exception of football. ND will play 5 FB games annually v ACC, sources told @ESPN"
so much for that
Notre Dame joins ACC W/ Exception of football
September 12th, 2012 at 9:43 AM
#1
Notre Dame joins ACC W/ Exception of football
September 12th, 2012 at 9:46 AM | 
ND copout
ND copout
September 12th, 2012 at 9:50 AM |
Traditionally stronger is
Traditionally stronger is
Traditionally stronger is basketball, but not the past couple years. If the B1G wasn't so terrible this year in football it'd be easier to make the case they are scared. I will say that I think the B1G will improve drastically in the next few years (fingers crossed), but who knows.
To Hell with Notre Dame.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:24 AM |
Sorry, but as Michigan
Sorry, but as Michigan
Sorry, but as Michigan returns to prominence, they and Ohio are going to increasingly dominate recruiting and the B1G is not going to get much better over the next few years. It looks like Wisconsin has climaxed and Penn State is not going to be Penn State for about 8 years. Last year's State squad was probably the best they have ever had or will have for another 10 years, and leaves only Nebraska as the only other team we could see cracking the top 10 any time in the near future.
I am sorry about this because while I long for the feeling again when we can expect to roll out of bed most every Saturday morning and roll over whatever B1G oppenent is on the schedule except for Ohio and at Iowa, we will never catch the SEC as the elite conference unless the B1G regains national significance and can consistently recruit in the south and the west. Notre Dame would have helped this cause but now, that will never happen.
Columbus bred, but home is where the heart is.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:32 AM |
Well, we agree. I said I
Well, we agree. I said I
Well, we agree. I said I think the B1G would get stronger. I think that having Michigan and Ohio return to prominance would constitute the league being stronger because right now they are pretty mediocre, along with everyone else.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:57 AM |
It wasn't a question as to
It wasn't a question as to
It wasn't a question as to B1G vs. ACC, ND was deciding between Big East and ACC. The Big East is currently negotiating their tv contract and it seems that ND was not too optimistic with respect to that. ND made the decision that Big East basketball prominence was slipping (w/ the loss of WV, Syracuse and Pitt). That being said, ND also wants to win football games and it makes sense for them to want to beat up on the ACC cupcakes. In addition, the ACC has more private schools, catholic schools, and overall, it has a similar makeup as ND, as opposed to the Midwest state schools of the B1G.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:07 AM |
No, the initial post was in
No, the initial post was in
No, the initial post was in regards to ND ever joining the B1G. But by all means, please continue to blindly disagree with everything I say.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:20 AM |
I think I meant to reply to
I think I meant to reply to
I think I meant to reply to the initial post. I.e., I don't think ND was down to B1G vs. ACC, but rather, status quo at Big East vs. ACC.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:25 AM |
I see, that's an easy mistake
I see, that's an easy mistake
I see, that's an easy mistake to make. Still friends?
September 12th, 2012 at 12:12 PM |
I'm friends w/
I'm friends w/
I'm friends w/ everyone...
except buckeyes and domers.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:06 AM |
Don't worry, if Michigan and
Don't worry, if Michigan and
Don't worry, if Michigan and OSU start winning some Rose Bowls and NCs, everyone will rave about the B1G.
It's the top of the ticket that matters. Take out OSU's pathetic performance against the SEC, and the B1G has a pretty damn good record against the SEC in bowl games, where it really matters. But all anyone remembers is what the B1G did in the BCS-level games.
M'Dog
September 12th, 2012 at 1:08 PM |
To be honest, I see the B1G
To be honest, I see the B1G
To be honest, I see the B1G becoming more like the Pac-12 in the near-future: really, really top-heavy. UM and OSU will be the USC and Oregon of the conference and compete for national titles. MSU will be like Stanford only in the sense that it is a rising program (I would never, under any other circumstance, compare MSU to Stanford). Nebraska has gone as far as it can under Bo Pelini, and Penn State will not be Penn State again for a long time. Wisconsin can bounce back, but they may very well have peaked too.
And then, like the Pac-12, everyone else is just kind of there.
I was hoping for a different story starting this year. I thought this would be the year where the conference, as a whole, starts catching up. Looks like that theory has fallen apart completely.
It's been a lot. Its been a roller coaster that for some reason seemed like it would never get good. But you know what? We kept fighting. It's like that old saying goes, "Those Who Stay Will Be Champions." -David Molk
September 12th, 2012 at 4:12 PM |
heh.
heh.
I laughed when I read the part likening Michigan State and Stanford; they are about as close similar as cottage cheese to roofing shingles.
If the haters don't hate you then you're doing something wrong. - David Cone
September 12th, 2012 at 10:49 AM |
Things are cyclical. The SEC
Things are cyclical. The SEC
Things are cyclical. The SEC has not gained enough momentum for me to assume they will break the cycle. Eventually, the Big 10 will be the best conference again, or the ACC, or the Pac 12. Alabama and LSU are really the only reason the SEC gets so much love. Look at Auburn and Arkansas...
Hail.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:35 AM |
I disagree. The SEC's
I disagree. The SEC's
I disagree. The SEC's biggest advantage is simply its location, in the most talent-rich region of the country. Unless people start moving back from the Sun Belt to the Rust Belt - or the NCAA starts hammering schools down there left and right - I don't really see how that will change. The specific SEC program on top may change, but that conference will probably always field some top contenders.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:57 AM |
The biggest talent pool
The biggest talent pool
The biggest talent pool states:
California - PAC 12
Florida - SEC / ACC
Texas - BIG 12
Ohio - BIG 10
Granted, the south has a slight advantage in HS talent, but it is not leaps and bounds.
Hail.
September 12th, 2012 at 12:29 PM |
It's a year old, but this
It's a year old, but this
It's a year old, but this link from rivals shows the ten best states for bcs recruits over that past 10 years. They look at total numbers of kids signing with bcs schools.
Sec Country (Florida, Georgia, Alabama) totals over 3000 recruits. Big12 (Texas) has 1850. Big ten country (Ohio, Pennsylvania) has Less than 1100. Acc/big east (new jersey, north Carolina, Virginia) has almost 1300. Pac10 (California) Has almost 1300.
http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1239398
For my privacy, my new username is "non-Oriental non-Andrew"
September 12th, 2012 at 1:21 PM |
Some of this may be
Some of this may be
Some of this may be attributable to the SEC's recent dominance. I don't think that those figures actually say as much as you think.
There is very little overlap in terms of conferences. The Big 10 does not share territory with other conferences (Iowa State and Cinci are the only ones I can think of, unless you count ND). This means there are 13ish schools in that recruiting area, unless you lump in Nebraska, which I'm sure was Big 12. That is the size of the SEC. Now consider that "SEC" states also house Miami, Florida State, USF, Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Louisville. That means there are 13 teams looking for players in Big 10 states, and at least 20 schools in the SEC footprint (I'm betting there are more that I am forgetting). That's a lot more schools to give away scholarships, especially when they are oversigning.
Hail.
September 12th, 2012 at 2:55 PM |
Except that talent isn't
Except that talent isn't
Except that talent isn't distributed evenly. The best schools get the pick of the talent. Given that the South, as a whole, is the richest vein of HS talent, the best programs in the South are likely to be the best teams in the country most years.
I don't see college football as "cyclical" at all. The big programs, by and large, remain big indefinitely. Michigan has been good for most of the last 120 years. Indiana has been bad most of that time. Those aren't likely to change.
One thing that has changed is that the South, the most football-mad region of the country, has experienced tremendous population growth over the past half-century. Also, the schools of the South no longer segregate against African Americans. There has been a noticeable trend away from the dominance of the Northern schools in college football, while most of the emerging powers are in the South (Oregon, with its close ties to Nike, is an exception). I don't see that as a temporary cycle. It's likely to be the new normal. Michigan happens to be one of the few Northern schools that can recruit nationally, so we still can compete for national championships. I don't think most other schools in our region ever will.
September 12th, 2012 at 6:57 PM |
Throw in deep, deep south
Throw in deep, deep south
like Mississippi, Arkansas, etc., there are a lot of athletic players who are very raw. Sometimes they don't develop, but when they do, they are usually the difference maker.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:37 AM |
I disagree. The SEC's
I disagree. The SEC's
I disagree. The SEC's biggest advantage is simply its location, in the most talent-rich region of the country. Unless people start moving back from the Sun Belt to the Rust Belt - or the NCAA starts hammering schools down there left and right - I don't really see how that will change. The specific SEC program on top may change, but that conference will probably always field some top contenders.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:41 AM |
I'm not ready to write
I'm not ready to write
Sorry, but as Michigan returns to prominence, they and Ohio are going to increasingly dominate recruiting and the B1G is not going to get much better over the next few years. It looks like Wisconsin has climaxed and Penn State is not going to be Penn State for about 8 years. Last year's State squad was probably the best they have ever had or will have for another 10 years, and leaves only Nebraska as the only other team we could see cracking the top 10 any time in the near future.
I'm not ready to write Wisconsin off because of last Saturday. They're a program that has been very consistent for about 20 years now, and their athletic department seems committed to keeping that going. I also think Illinois might finally get it together with PSU declining. They're the flagship school in a state that produces a fair amount of talent, but they've shot themselves in the foot time and again.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:59 AM |
Wisconsin's success has been cyclical since Alvarez
Wisconsin's success has been cyclical since Alvarez
When they have a lot of guys with experience in their system, they do well. When they don't, they tend to struggle. They went to the Rose Bowl two years in a row, so they're due for the down end of the cycle.
Where's Charlie Bauman when you need him?
September 12th, 2012 at 2:50 PM |
Wisconsin has had 18 winning
Wisconsin has had 18 winning
Wisconsin has had 18 winning seasons in the last 19 years. Under Brett Bielema they're 61-20. Sure, they might have a rebuilding year now and then, but to suggest that their program has peaked and will now decline (which the above poster appeared to be suggesting) seems baseless.
September 12th, 2012 at 4:14 PM |
hmmmmmm...
hmmmmmm...
I think Beckman moves the needle in Illinois; he'll have the same success he's had elsewhere.
If the haters don't hate you then you're doing something wrong. - David Cone
September 12th, 2012 at 12:35 PM |
Sometimes
Sometimes
I think people get too into how conferences are doing as a whole. If in a few years Michigan is competing for national titles I'm not really going to care if the rest of the conference is weak.
For the record, I'm not a eugenicist.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:21 AM |
NSFMF
NSFMF
That still leaves them 4 games. I would bet that they would want Michigan for one of those four. Maybe MSU and Purdue as well some years. You may see them rotate out for a few years every once in a while going forward, but I doubt this changes much for Michigan.
September 12th, 2012 at 4:18 PM |
Unlikely
Unlikely
Michigan doesn't need to be ND's partner at their whim to meet their new ACC commitments.
I'm confident the Pimp Hand will either a) demand an annual commitment (home/home) or move on to another quality opponent.
Note his right hand is ready for this exigency immediately below:
If the haters don't hate you then you're doing something wrong. - David Cone
September 12th, 2012 at 10:08 AM |
I wouldn't call it afraid to
I wouldn't call it afraid to
I wouldn't call it afraid to join the b1g if we let them do what they are doing with the acc I'm sure they would jump at the chance
September 12th, 2012 at 10:14 AM |
I'm not so sure. ND is
I'm not so sure. ND is
I'm not so sure. ND is established in the Midwest. I think they are trying to be proactive in competing in large markets outside the Midwest. There are only 2 marquee, national games that ND would participate in the Big Ten, that being us and Ohio State. They already have us locked up. This is just a case of ND wanting its cake and eating it too.
September 12th, 2012 at 4:21 PM |
Hmmmmmm...
Hmmmmmm...
ND is taking a bath on the finances by not joining the B1G; Wiscy, Penn State, Ohio and Michigan are all certainly major established national brands.
ND might have more control in the ACC and the opportunity to compete against weaker competition in FB/independence (hello Maryland, BC, Syracuse etc.) but they are not having their cake and eating it to.
The B1G offers a lot more cake.
I wonder if the B1G even really wanted ND at this point.
If the haters don't hate you then you're doing something wrong. - David Cone
September 12th, 2012 at 5:21 PM |
The ACC cake is going to get
The ACC cake is going to get
The ACC cake is going to get a lot bigger. ND keeps its own TV contract and can cherry pick ACC bowls, which they get to keep their own money. Sounds good to me.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:19 PM |
Agreed. This smells like
Agreed. This smells like
Agreed. This smells like what Texas did to the Big XII.
It is unclear if the Big XII will continue to survive the inequity of Texas cherry picking.
I predict something similar happening in the ACC: the one or two strongest programs eventually getting sick of being a ND handmaiden and leaving. Should take about 5-6 years to fall apart.
Casey Anthony: Buckeye fan.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:58 PM |
It does seem to be a coup on
It does seem to be a coup on
It does seem to be a coup on Notre Dame's part. They were smart and made the buyout figure cost-prohibitive.
I think this move really screws the BIG. Doubt there will be any more expansion talks about Maryland, UNC, Duke, GT, and UVa. Or BC for that matter.
September 13th, 2012 at 7:22 AM |
gigantic buyout
gigantic buyout
details aren't clear, but it seems that the acc just changed its buyout terms so that to get out of the league schools have to pay 50 mil...and the number goes up over time.
hard to imagine anybody anytime soon anteing up 50 mil to leave. the question, it seems, is when this nd-acc deal is up, whether the acc will be able to leverage nd in as a full football member.
September 12th, 2012 at 9:46 AM |
Whoa...
Whoa...
Did not see that coming... (at least not today)
Homer? Who is Homer? My name is Wolverine Incognito.
September 12th, 2012 at 9:48 AM |
This came up when all the
This came up when all the
This came up when all the conference re-alignment craziness was happening. The timing is strange, but the conference choice is not that surprising.
September 12th, 2012 at 9:51 AM |
Why does it have to be
Why does it have to be
Why does it have to be partial? Stupid ND
September 12th, 2012 at 10:12 AM |
LOL ND
LOL ND
They continue to believe that their football program is so unique from all the others (well, maybe it is compared to the other ACC programs). But when has ND been truly relevant in the past 10 years? Not to say that Michigan hasn't had a rough patch recently, but Michigan is a happy, participating partner of a conference and is not holding itself out to be above the system.
Disgruntled former moderator. I got a lot of problems with you people!
September 12th, 2012 at 10:26 AM |
I wish I was wrong
I wish I was wrong
As hard as it is is to admit, they are...I mean they have their own seperate national TV contract and get special consideration from the BCS while being able to schedule more freely than any conference school, there's no reason for themto change that no matter how much I hate them for it
"Slappin' the Bass" - Matt Vogrich (maybe)
September 12th, 2012 at 10:55 AM |
Not quite
Not quite
With the death of the BCS, ND doesn't get special treatment anymore... Or did they keep their "special" privilege?
"If life is the road, then Ohio is simply a place to stop for gas." -- Scott Burgess, Detroit News, 9/16/2010
September 12th, 2012 at 11:11 AM |
Is it dead though?? I thought
Is it dead though?? I thought
Is it dead though?? I thought they were just going to pick "x" teams for a playoff instead of a 2 team championship game
"Slappin' the Bass" - Matt Vogrich (maybe)
September 12th, 2012 at 5:23 PM |
The BCS is dead. The teams
The BCS is dead. The teams
The BCS is dead. The teams picked will be based off of record, ranking and strength of schedule. Better start dropping those FCS teams.
September 12th, 2012 at 11:43 AM |
OTOH, ND's deal with NBC
OTOH, ND's deal with NBC
OTOH, ND's deal with NBC isn't as lucrative as generally believed (I'm pretty sure Big Ten teams get more money from the BTN than they do from NBC). They're doing okay financially, but they're not making out like bandits.
September 12th, 2012 at 10:58 AM |
It sucks to admit, but they
It sucks to admit, but they
It sucks to admit, but they are unique from everybody else. Maybe not on the field wise, or tradition wise, but until other schools get their own TV contracts (the Longhorn Network doesn't really count either), and get special inside access to the BCS, Notre Dame will be unique
If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?
September 12th, 2012 at 11:24 AM |
Oh, I definitely agree that
Oh, I definitely agree that
Oh, I definitely agree that they have received "special" treatment for years. But I also think that all that will be quickly coming to an end. Their TV contract with NBC comes to an end soon (has it been renewed?) and the playoff system is going to mess with their auto-bid into a BCS spot. Their belief that they are special is quickly moving from the realm or reality to fiction . . .
Disgruntled former moderator. I got a lot of problems with you people!
September 13th, 2012 at 3:57 AM |
So she finally flashing her
So she finally flashing her
So she finally flashing her boobs and shaking her nasty ass for a player, but she still not going to give up that nookie so fuck that bitch she is nothing but a tease. Can't handle that B1G reputation for physicalness so she settled for a lame who is more sensitive to her needs. Have a good life baby!
"There will be blood on the field and it
won't be mine. … Quote it. Let them
know."
Kyle Kalis
September 13th, 2012 at 8:42 AM |
Forgot whose tweet this was,
Forgot whose tweet this was,
Forgot whose tweet this was, but it pretty much summed it up (from yesterday, and I'm paraphrasing).
"Notre Dame to join ACC with exception of football is like having Kate Upton as your girlfriend but without the sex."
And when we play as a team, when the old season is over, you and I know it’s going to be Michigan again. Michigan!
September 12th, 2012 at 10:16 AM |
Bowl payouts, NBC contract
Bowl payouts, NBC contract
I think the main advantage ND gets from remaining independent is that when they play in a bowl game, they get to keep all the money to themselves. That may not be a big deal when ND is playing in the Kraft Fight Hunger Bowl and taking home $300K. But if they go to a BCS bowl (or whatever they will be called once the playoffs begin) and get an $18 million check, they don't have to share a dime of that with a conference.
By comparison, Michigan loses money on bowl games--even ones with huge payouts like the Sugar Bowl last season--because the expenses associated with the game, plus the ticket guarantees and all that are huge, and then the revenue you bring in gets divided twelve ways.
Then, of course, ND has its own TV deal with NBC that is worth millions annually and gives them huge nationwide visibility. I'm not sure whether that would be affected if ND became a full ACC member but if so, that is another reason not to dive all the way into a conference.
"You will suffer humiliation when the team from my area defeats the team from your area." -- The Onion
September 12th, 2012 at 10:50 AM |
Not untrue.
Not untrue.
But it also means Michigan gets to share in the wealth of Wisconsin's Rose Bowl, MSU's Cap 1, and all the way down the line. And two years ago, when we didn't go to any bowl, we got a share of all the other bowls the Big Ten was in, so that was just profit. So it equals out some.
"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk
September 12th, 2012 at 11:38 AM |
We did not lose money going
We did not lose money going
We did not lose money going to the Sugar Bowl. The $78,k number in the headline of the story is also misleading. The Big Ten made $4M in profit on the game and it was put into a pool that we got well over $2M from.
While ND gets millions from their TV deal, it's millions less than Purdue gets from being in the Big Ten. I think it's generally agreed that ND is willing to sacrifice revenue to keep their independence in football.
Eating is murder.
they have always been afraid to join the B1G, so they join the weaker ACC (except perhaps stronger in bball)... we should end the football relationship with them