Notre Dame Band - obnoxiously good
So now that UTL II is over, Michigan's won (HELL YEAH) and we're all basking in the pleasant glow of victory, one thing I noticed during the game was how loud Notre Dame's band was. I mean from the student section you could hear them from the opposite corner of the stadium. I could barely even hear our band even though I was seated almost right behind them.
You heard the contrast in the halftime show, too. When Notre Dame was doing their number I remember thinking to myself, "Huh. I can actually hear the songs they're playing." Of course they got booed as they entered the stadium, and again to a lesser extent as they started their halftime performance, but after they were done I actually heard applause for them. I joined in. Hey, they earned it. They were good. (I feel okay saying this since we won.)
Anyone else, or am I Irish-crazy?
September 8th, 2013 at 2:28 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 2:43 PM ^
Can't some of that be excused by the fact that we were playing an epic game to seal a perfect regular season and the Heisman? I was never in the MMB but I'm sure there must times when the exhileration of the moment makes it tough to keep it all together during some of the post-touchdown renditions of "the Victors".
September 8th, 2013 at 2:10 PM ^
So they can get subjected to even more bitching about valuing quality over volume. Because there's not enough of that as it is.
September 8th, 2013 at 2:24 PM ^
The commencement bands feature music majors. The MMB is almost exclusively non-music majors. So in addition to different environments, you're talking about different levels of musicians. I, for one, think the band sounds pretty damn precise given the environment and skill level of its musicians. It's not fair to compare to commencement bands...because of course commencement bands will sound better, more refined (I would certainly hope so, honestly).
September 9th, 2013 at 10:35 AM ^
were you sitting near the band because I was in section 26 and the speaker delay really screwed up how it sounded especially on lets go blue
September 8th, 2013 at 1:52 PM ^
That show was outstanding, and this season's band is incredible. People should go to the pre-game rehearsals at Elbel and see the work they are doing. My (slightly) inside information has it that the entire season will have very high production value. Professor Pasquale is up there in top hires for UofM along with Greg Mattison.
September 8th, 2013 at 2:06 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 4:48 PM ^
I don't care if he reads this blog or not, the guy was a dick and he didn't understand collegiate bands nor the purpose of a band at a football game. His tenure was a disaster, most people hated him, and it is no coincidence that the band is so much better now that he is gone. I know a lot of other band alumni were holding off on donating until he left, I wouldn't be suprised if more money comes in and more people join.
September 8th, 2013 at 6:49 PM ^
> the guy was a dick and he didn't understand collegiate bands nor the purpose of a band at a football game.
Jesus. You're insinuating that a guy who was employed by one of the best music schools AND one of the biggest athletic programs in the country (and is considered widely to be downright a Midwestern authority on bands) had no concept of what his job was.
Who's the dick again?
Now, don't get me wrong: I was myself plenty displeased with Boerma quite frequently. But wow, I did not know anyone on the internet could be so magnanimous about the hiring decisions of prestigious organizations.
I'm excited for Pasquale's tenure. He's gonna blow everyone out of the water (given that he already has). But seriously, cool your jets on Boerma.
September 8th, 2013 at 8:48 PM ^
Just because he was briefly employed at Michigan makes him exempt from criticism? His transition was a mess. He forced a number of people out and told one of my friends that she was a "cancer to the band". He threatened, yelled, insulted, and went on tantrums. That's just what I saw, but you may have had a different experience, but calling him a dick is not an exaggeration.
But really his biggest problem was treating the MMB like some DCI group. We were not music majors, and he had overly complicated music and unrealistic sets. No wonder sound production and formation quality dropped off since Nix, his shows were not realistic. And it was an embarrassment that the band had to be microphoned under his tenure, it never needed to be before. I don’t think you are aware of all the issues with him. But I think we can both agree that this new direction with Pasquale is much better.
September 8th, 2013 at 9:24 PM ^
I was there, too. All I'll say is that I too saw and experienced these things during the transition, and more. It wasn't a very fun season for a lot of us, and it really didn't have to be that way.
But at this point, to say more is unnecessary, and a bit like needlessly airing dirty laundry. It's in the past. Professor Boerma has a new position that is more suited to his strengths, interests, and teaching style, and I wish him the best.
It looks like the MMB has a great new director that understands the MMB's style and sound, and I hope what we've seen for the past two weeks continues in the years to come.
September 9th, 2013 at 12:59 AM ^
I dunno, Bando. I don't think that Pasquale's done much different than Boerma from an outsider's perspective, except for been a little more liberal in terms of what he's willing to field. Boerma was more conservative with what he'd field. (The insides of the band are getting a lot of revamping--things like reserve system, etc., so there's more adjustments going on inside than out.)
The arrangements are still by Boerma, and the drill looks little different to me. Some of the field work looked sloppy on the Beyonce video (although with no light, it's easy to imagine why). I didn't see the Pregame that was aired on BTN, but I heard the marching was meh.
It does seem that volume and tone quality are both improved this year, to my outside ear, but much of the preferences of Pasquale is retained from the style of Boerma. Let's not forget that Pasquale was Boerma's right-hand man for 6 years.
September 9th, 2013 at 1:01 AM ^
"He threatened, yelled, insulted, and went on tantrums."
Who? Bo? I'm kidding, but I'm also kind of not.
I know his transition was a mess. Yeah, he struggled. A lot of what he did in his last four years demonstrated some of his struggles. But his intensity lessened as the years wore on, largely in response to overwhelming feedback about his teaching style. He worked his ass off to try to be a better leader. His philosophy of "Change nothing" that he clung to when I was there was what bothered me more than anything else.
And you're right; "employed by Michigan" does not automatically imply exempt from criticism. My point is that someone clearly thought he was qualified. And he was. One of the best conductors I've ever seen, if not the best. And the best marching band arranger around. I see you disagree:
"overly complicated music and unrealistic sets"
Couple things--Boerma didn't and doesn't write drill, to my knowledge, although he does have a few go-to drill people. I don't think I ever experienced a set that was "unrealistic." Largely, if anything, the drill was most often bland and unexciting for most of his tenure.
And overly complicated music? If you mean nuanced arrangements, then, well...different strokes for different folks? His arrangements are incredible, imo. Just because he isn't power chording it on every damn song like 90% of collegiate marching bands doesn't mean his arrangements are "overly complicated."
Sorry, but the trend in collegiate marching band is toward DCI. Not completely (see: woodwinds in MMB), but it trends that way. Hence why OSU's style seems so antiquated.
As far as the band being miked under his tenure...I dunno. My understanding is that the "More damn sound" complaints from the old fogies and their ilk is as traditional as The Victors. I think that was a culmination of more than just Boerma's tenure.
My point is, give the guy a break. He did work hard to make the band good. If he didn't succeed to your personal standard (read: not everyone's personal standard), let it go. Since we both agree that Pasquale will have a better tenure, we can also both agree that John Pasquale and Scott Boerma are close personal friends, and I believe firmly that Pasquale holds Boerma in high esteem. I'll take Pasquale's appraisal over yours any day.
September 9th, 2013 at 10:41 AM ^
boerma is great at writing music and arranging, and did the pieces for the bond show from the last game. He is much more suited for a traditional band environment than a marching band and im pretty sure he knows it. He did seem to struggle fitting music to the game situation at least from our perspective. Also pasquale is just a more likable guy, everybody already loved him as assistant director and he has some of the most hilarious metaphors when you screw up.
September 8th, 2013 at 6:00 PM ^
Why does it matter if Boerman reads the blog? Are you hoping to get a job that you need his recommendation for? From what my friends in the marching community have told me, that recommendation won't do much for you.
September 8th, 2013 at 1:41 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 1:53 PM ^
There's a dick joke in here somewhere.
ND is pretty average and does indeed cover stuff up with a million members. Also, their drumline has been chickening out of drumoffs long before their AD caught the disease.
September 8th, 2013 at 2:02 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 1:42 PM ^
MMB will always need full woodwind instrumentation, because you can't play The Victors properly without a strong woodwind section -- I hate to admit it being a former trombone player, but clarinets are critical on that one. So MMB will always be quieter than bands that can load up on brass. MMB was a bit louder when they did more high step. It required greater conditioning, and you had a whole lot of extra air in your lungs you had to exhale quickly, and you exhaled through the horn. But they can do much more intricate stuff now than they could in the old days, so it's a wash, I suppose. Other bands, especially Wisconsin, do "death marches" where they just work on volume at the expense of everything else. Michigan has never done that, and probably never will.
September 8th, 2013 at 1:43 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 1:46 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 7:03 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 1:49 PM ^
C'mon folks, it was a godawful performance by the ND band. CMU last week was a much smaller, but still superior, band. ND played at best high school literature (and needed sheet music to do it), and while some might have found it loud, I couldn't hear much, and it had no quality whatsoever. From my seats in Section 39, we had a perfect angle on the formations. It was a simple program and they couldn't even hold that together. Their diagonals were embarrassingly non-existent, they couldn't hold a straight line to save their lives, and many of the band members were out of step. I can't honestly come up with a poorer performance from a visiting band in recent memory.
September 8th, 2013 at 1:57 PM ^
I was only watching on TV, but the one thing that struck me, at some point in the 2nd half after they'd closed the gap (to either 27-20 or 34-27, can't recall), their cheerleaders/fans started a loud cheer. I don't know if they were mic'd for TV but I couldn't believe how loud it was for a visiting section. Fortunately, we gained a first down and I didn't hear it again.
September 8th, 2013 at 2:37 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 2:31 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 2:22 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 4:40 PM ^
other Michigan NotreDame game. I agree with ppToilet (really??). I found Michigan band quite loud and the skirted wonder band a bit quieter...
September 8th, 2013 at 3:05 PM ^
Nothing like a band topic to remind us all why the self-moderation system is crucial to this board.
September 8th, 2013 at 3:33 PM ^
The rancor of a lot of the comments are amusing to me, actually.
September 8th, 2013 at 3:12 PM ^
Where online can we find videos of halftime shows? I heard the band posts them usually on Sunday or Monday?
Thanks in advance.
September 8th, 2013 at 5:01 PM ^
BIG THANKS!
September 8th, 2013 at 3:48 PM ^
MMB member during the 95-98 seasons here. From my view high atop section 34 ND's drill looked pretty bad. Lines were terrible and diagonals worse. With that and the flip folders, I was far from impressed. Plus they don't have a flag line (I was an MMB flag rank leader). I enjoyed the MMB's show and thought they did a great job, especially considering the challenge of doing a show with limited lighting.
September 8th, 2013 at 3:55 PM ^
There was more than one time last night that the sound coming from ND's band made me cringe. There was definitely a bit of blasting going on there and it just didn't sound good. Loud? Yes. But good music? No.
September 8th, 2013 at 4:53 PM ^
They were fucking awesome.
September 8th, 2013 at 9:29 PM ^
September 8th, 2013 at 5:51 PM ^
Lots of brass, lots of music loudly...btw, my wife asked what cartoon music they were playing when they started the nd victory march....I busted out laughing cause she had no idea and was serious.
September 8th, 2013 at 6:48 PM ^
more cowbell!
September 8th, 2013 at 6:54 PM ^
I'm not even gonna read through the comments to see if this has been said, but this is a stupid thread. OF COURSE their band would sound louder from where you were. You were BEHIND the michigan band. There's your answer. Almost 100% of their sound prjects forward. Thus the ND band playing in your direction was much louder. Also since when does loud=good?
I'm pretty sure this was a troll thread but I took the bait.
September 8th, 2013 at 10:15 PM ^
Really. Can we all agree on the following?
1) The opposing band in Michigan Stadium usually sounds louder because it's facing you. The MMB is below you and facing the other way.
2) The MMB is smaller than many Big Ten bands. Michigan, despite its image as a gigantic midwestern university, is smaller than many Big Ten schools as far as undergrad enrollment. Marching bands are virtually 100% undergrad.
3) The comparison between 80 music majors...sitting down...playing from printed scores vs. 300 non music majors...playing while marching hundreds of yards...playing hastily memorized music is absurd. It's not even apples and oranges. It's apples and dump trucks.
And one observation. I have great respect for Scott Boerma. He knows marching bands. I also have great respect for John Pasquale. He is excellent. But guess what? The Beyonce arrangements that the MMB played last night...were by Scott Boerma.
That's all.
September 9th, 2013 at 12:39 AM ^
The MMB is NOT smaller than many Big Ten bands. The MMB is 400 strong.
However, the pregame contingent is roughly on par with most elite Big Ten bands (235).
September 9th, 2013 at 12:56 AM ^
September 10th, 2013 at 7:53 PM ^
I'm a former ND band member, and just wanted to say thank you for the compliment. It's always great to hear that we made game day more fun for everyone!
I'd also like to say thank you to Michigan marching band for typically being a kind host and polite visitor when they come to our stadium. They have never tried to link arms 3 deep and keep us from taking our own field for halftime (*cough* USC *cough*).
September 10th, 2013 at 8:45 PM ^
I don't know how many band members they travel with, but Notre Dame has one of the larger marching bands in the country. 380+ members according to their website.
I've seen folks clamoring for MOAR brass instead of woodwinds, but come on, we have some sick flute parts.
ND played a lot of pirate sounding jams--I found them to be a swashbuckling annoyance.
At least they contributed to the largest crowd ever?