Not OT: Create an All-Michigan team from your lifetime
With all of the OT posts recently and talk about actual football seeming to wane, here's a topic to get the football engines revving again. Who would be on your All-Michigan team choosing only players from your lifetime (or the time you have been a Michigan fan)? For example, Tom Harmon wouldn't count for most/all of us, because he played before most/all of us were born. My list is somewhat limited, since I remember watching Desmond Howard as a kid...but I don't remember the names of all his linemen.
QB: Tom Brady
RB: Tyrone Wheatley
RB: Tshimanga Biakabutuka
TE: Tony McGee
WR: Desmond Howard
WR: Braylon Edwards
OL: Jake Long
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Jon Jansen
OL: Jeff Backus
OL: Steve Everitt
DL: William Carr
DL: Mark Messner
DL: LaMarr Woodley
DL: Brandon Graham
LB: Jarrett Irons
LB: Sam Sword
LB: Erick Anderson
CB: Charles Woodson
CB: Ty Law
S: Marcus Ray
S: Ernest Shazor
I realize the safety position is a little weak, but...well...Michigan isn't known for producing safeties.
Great post, Magnus. The one critique I have is with respect to Tom Brady. Now, he is most definitely my favorite NFLer and arguably the best QB of the past 10 years in the NFL. But I'd have to put Henne as my favorite Michigan QB due to the extended length of college career versus Brady. What do you think? (I'm with you: I remember the 1980s as a kid but not the lineman, etc.)
Also, at Tight End, I would put Jerame Tuman over Tony McGee.
I can't argue with Tuman, really. I thought about him before I put down McGee. I just thought that if McGee played in a more pass-friendly offense, he could have been a star.
Also, I always kind of got the feeling that Grbac was made by Desmond Howard. I never really think of him being that great of a quarterback, partially because his senior year was just so-so once Desmond left. On the flip side, Brady seemed to continue improving each year.
I agree about Grbac. I think I give him too much credit for throwing to Desmond. I graduated before the Tom Brady era so I'm a bit removed but I don't think I developed my love for him (yes, sexual desire too) until his NFL career started. As such, I think I have to go with Henne as my favorite QB.
Other than the QB and TE position, I agree with your list almost completely.
If he had been the 10 year NFL backup I thought he was going to be. I've never felt our offense was unstoppable, except his senior season. The only people who every stopped us that season was us. And it was mostly due to him, in a 4 wideout formation, tearing apart defenses. Sure he had good targets, and protection, and running help...but he looked like he does when he's on with the Pats that season.
And I know people who will disagree, but Grbac is the most overrated QB to me too. Put up numbers as our first all out passing QB, but made bad game time decisions, and wasn't a super leader.
I agree with your comments on Tom Brady. My ND friends accuse me of SuperBowl-caused revisionism, but I really did love him when he was playing for us. What I liked best about him is how he would routinely hit 7-8 different receivers each game, which he continues to do in the NFL.
But I do disagree with your opinion on Grbac, especially when you consider who he replaced and who replaced him. On the front end, we were so much better when Grbac replaced Michael Taylor and so much worse, on the back end, when Todd Collins replaced Grbac. Collins put up gaudy numbers, but he was the architect of those 8-4 seasons (you know, the ones that used to be considered a "losing" season for us). He always seemed to dump off for 3 yards when we needed 5, 5 yards when we needed 7, etc.
Which brings me full circle: Brady always seemed to get 6 yards when we needed 5, 8 yards when we needed 7.
I mean, we were better when Grbac came in (after his first season, at least) because frankly, Taylor was pretty bad. One of those "don't screw things up QBs". He might be on this list if we were doing a mirror universe version (2008 not included). I thought Collins was better than Grbac. The NFL seems to agree with me. Better arm, more accuracy. Grbac was always throwing bad INTs with no on in maize and blue in sight (see ND - 1992); and then blaming his protection (see post 1992 Rose Bowl). Quarterbacking wasn't the problem in 1993, it was replacing an offensive line that all went to the NFL at once. We led the league in passing efficiency for conference games. 1994 the Defense just wasn't that good. Gave up less than 20 points in only 2 regular season games. That team got hit with recovering from the Hail Mary, and gave undefeated Penn State their best game in a shootout. They just couldn't stop anybody.
You're absolutely right about McGee. Had he played on a Michigan team 10 years later than he did, he would've been a stud. Probably the best athlete Michigan has ever had at Tight End.
For like forever too.
Hard to not see Glen Steele in there, but Woodley and Graham definitely go in over him. I would put Grbac in front of Brady and Henne. Henne had better stats but never won a Rose Bowl or beat OSU.
Only been following for about 10 years or so. Here goes
QB: John Navarre
RB: Chris Perry
RB: Mike Hart
TE: Bennie Joppru
WR: Braylon Edwards
WR: Mario Manningham
OL: Jake Long
OL: David Baas
OL: David Molk
OL: Steve Schilling
OL: NO IDEA
DL: Alan Branch
DL: Mike Martin
DL: LaMarr Woodley
DL: Brandon Graham
LB: David Harris
LB: Victor Hobson
LB: Carl Diggs
CB: Marlin Jackson
CB: Leon Hall
S: Jamar Adams
S: Ernest Shazor
I'm guessing you could probably throw in Taylor Lewan for that last OL spot, although he probably wasn't good enough as a redshirt freshman to warrant that much consideration...
Justin Boren?
Kidding, of course.
If you had Joppru on your list you were around for Fat Elvis Tony Pape. He was a good RT.
Could also go with Rueben Riley or Dave Pearson for solid linemen.
I don't necessarily agree with the pick, but I applaud your inclusion of Navarre at QB. That guy got thrust into the spot light well before he was ready, and I think his performance that first season really dogged his reputation. But by the time he graduated, he was a lot better than most people gave him credit for.
Since the whole Charlie Sheen media explosion, every time you post, I can't help but hear your posts in his strong out, insane voice. I know that you have had that pic for quite a while now - talk about gettin in ahead of the curve. Winning.
Ha, I tend to forget that my avatar is Charlie Sheen and not actually Ricky "Wild Thing" Vaughn. I'm not sure how I feel about using Sheen to represent myself online anymore...
Aw, who am I kidding, my avatar is winning.
your avatar is an F-18 bro
It's oozing tigerblood. Rock star!
Born 1955, started following team in 1962. None of the OL are centers, but hard to move anybody off that line.
QB: Tom Brady
RB: Ron Johnson
RB: Tyrone Wheatley
TE: Ron Kramer
WR: Desmond Howard
WR: Anthony Carter
OL: Jake Long
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Tom Mack
OL: Dan Dierdorff
OL: Reggie McKenzie
DL: Tom Keating
DL: Bill Yearby
DL: LaMarr Woodley
DL: Brandon Graham
LB: Jarrett Irons
LB: Ron Simpkins
LB: Erick Anderson
CB: Charles Woodson
CB: Thom Darden
S: Rick Volk
S: Dave Brown
Didn't Michigan's all-time leading interceptor (Tom Curtis, I think) play in the late '60s or early '70s? I'm just curious, but why wouldn't he be on your list?
I feel like a noob because I don't know Yearby or Keating.
Curtis's last season was 1969 IIRC. He certainly was a candidate, but DB was a loaded position in the 60s and 70s. Other contenders were John Rowser, Mike Bass, Randy Logan, Bennie McRae. Yearby was a 2-time All-American and anchor of the defensive line on the '65 Rose Bowl champs. Keating didn't get that much acclaim at UM, because the teams he was on were all lousy. But had a great pro career, starting in Super Bowl II and making 2nd team All-time AFL.
Thanks for the history lesson.
I love this post. Gets us thinking of the great Michigan teams of the past during what seams like the slowest offseason ever. My list looks similar to most, but here it is.
QB: Henne
RB: Hart
RB: Biakabutuka
TE: Tuman
WR: Manningham
WR: Braylon
OL: Long
OL: Hutchinson
OL: Jansen
OL: Backus
OL: Baas
DL: Carr
DL: Branch
DL: Woodley
DL: Graham
LB: Irons
LB: Sword
LB: Harris
CB: Woodson
CB: Law
S: Ray
S: Shazor
I'm probably nuts but I'd put Manningham and Desmond in as the two WRs. I'm leaving Braylon off my list because I always thought he was an a-hole, if only because he whined to get the #1 jersey (in my opinion). I know this probably won't win me a popularity contest, but it had to be said.
Manningham was hardly a model citizen either...
That's definitely true. But, personally, Manningham's pure excitement as a player exceeded his propensity for not being model citizen-ish.
But I'd say "pure excitement as a player exceeded his propensity for not being model citizen-ish" could be said for both of them. (And I'm splitting hairs. Both were excellent, and neither are ax murderers. Maybe not the first choice to date your daughter, but not horrible).
I can see going either way on this, but I think that if you are just going to compare bad behavior, I have to agree with Profit that Braylon was more of an A-hole. From what I understand, Mario's only real issues were his frequent use of weed and his sometimes lack of effort. Certainly not explorary, but Braylon's issues were more akin to being an arrogant ass, and acting as if he was the greatest thing to come through our program. The former is easier to get past than the latter.
At the end, I still loved both of them and actively root for both in the pros, because anytime a former Wolverine succeeds in the pros, it is a good thing.
By the way, I didn't include Desmond because he was before the time that I really actively started to follow M football (in 1993, when I knew that I would be going to M the following year). I did, however, see the famous Desmond-strikes-the-Heisman game. It was actually the first M game that I ever saw (from NY) - I was at a friend's house and his father was a M alum and die hard fan. He had the game on and just about lost his mind with excitement when Desmond struck the pose.
Than lazy. Not sure what happened with Mario. He seemed a sweet kid coming in, but got sidetracked. He wasn't on the same page as the team to start '07. He seemed to regress personality-wise, while Braylon was at his best as a senior. Mario getting in screaming matches on the sidelines with Mallett wasn't great either, but then, it was Mallett.
But beyond that, there's just the numbers. Braylon has them all. He's the only guy to challenge AC's records. And it's been a long time since we've become pass heavy, so a lot of guys should have caught up to him in Bo's old offense.
I like the list. Good to see the name Steve Everitt. I would replace Shazor with Tripp Welborne, two-time All-American.
I always remembered the name Tripp Welborne because he was playing when I first started going to Michigan games, but I was clueless about football at the time. I never paid attention to safeties. I did pick Everitt from around that time, but I remember watching games on TV and seeing him maul people.
I still remember him playing a good chunk of a season with a broken jaw. That guy was the personification of toughness.
Some of the dorm room stories about him....
Welbourne was phenomenal not just at the cornerback position, but on special teams blocking place kicks with Vada Murray. He comes in a close 3rd just behind Ty Law for me. Had he not shredded his knee his senior year, he would've had a good pro career.
He was a Safety. The Strong Safety.
And adding to better safeties for the list, besides my top two, Corwin Brown.
You're right, of course, my bad....dude flew around the field so much, it's easy to get confused.
Where to put him, he'd be my 3rd CB problem. Because we're around the same age, and our lists are similar. (Though I think you went with more just D-linemen than by position below :-)
Fixed...
I would put Tripp and Vada in there. I also remember how often they blocked kicks -- it always seemed like a possibility when they were in the game. (And they clearly make first team for first names.) But I may be a little biased because they were the starting safeties around the same time that I really started being aware of individual players. For the same reason, I also think of Greg McMurtry (from Brockton, MA, as Keith Jackson would always add) and Chip Calloway as the best pair of receivers we've had (maybe not best individually, but best pair).
Speaking of Tripp Welbourne's knee, I feared the Minnesota game in the late 80s. That game claimed not only Tripp Welbourne's knee but also Tony Boles' knee.
If i recall, Bo made a new rule after Welborne tore up his knee by crashing into the visiting team's band on the sideline. For years, Bo would now allow any visiting bands to sit directly on the field. Do they still do that?
I think there have been times when the band sat in the corner of the field for particularly packed games, but that hasn't happened in a long, long time. If I'm not mistaken, I remember opposing bands sitting on the field during the Carr years.
QB: Chad Henne
RB: Mike Hart
RB: Chris Perry
TE: Jeramy Tuman
WR: Desmond Howard (don't remember him... but c'mon)
WR: Braylon Edwards
OL: Jake Long
OL: Steve Hutchinson
OL: Davis Baas
OL: Jeff Backus
OL: Jon Jansen
DL: Alan Branch
DL: Mike Martin
DL: LaMarr Woodley
DL: Brandon Graham
LB: Jarrett Irons
LB: Sam Sword
LB: David Harris
CB: Charles Woodson
CB: Ty Law
S: Marlin Jackson (Junior year)
S: Ernest Shazor
YOU'RE NOT ALLOWED TO BREAK THE RULES!!!!!!!!!!
"Who would be on your All-Michigan team choosing only players from your lifetime (or the time you have been a Michigan fan)?"
Desmond played his football at Michigan during my lifetime. I was in 3rd grade when he graduated. Ergo, rules followed.
/BOOM. Statutory interpretation'd.
Touche. I just didn't understand how someone who was walking and talking by 1991 couldn't remember Desmond Howard, so I figured you were born after that time.
I lived in Tokyo, Japan from '87 to '91. The only live games I got to watch were Japanese baseball games.
I will say, though, that Japanese baseball is some fantastic baseball. I got to watch several games at the Tokyo Dome, and the fans there take their baseball very seriously. I remain a fan of the Nippon Ham Fighters to this day, though I have a soft spot for the Hiroshima Carp. Their fans... well, lets just say that their fan base has been through some shit.
I would have to be with you. I have been a lifelong fan, but I only really remember back to about 1997 also (I was born in 1988). My only thing would be Biakabutuka over Perry, but only because I love his name more than Perry's. But both are definitely worthy of that spot, IMO.
But he was right at the front end of my Michigan memories (313 might be the earliest specific game I can remember). Chris Perry has a special place in my heart because he was hauling the rock when I was at Michigan.
One of my favorite Michigan performances of all time was his 51-carry afternoon against Sparty in '03. He was like fricking Rocky that day. Dude just kept getting back up.
That was my senior year Ohio State game and, until the birth of my son 11 years later, the greatest day of my life. Even though we were flat broke at the time, my buddy and I bought a brick outside Michigan Stadium to commemorate that day. TD Tim was unstoppable. The best parts were that Eddie George was left in the dust -- just over 100 yards, IIRC; a pretty good day, but he won the Heisman and got only a third (!) of what Timmy had -- and that we were OSU's only loss that year. The weather was also crazy nice, more like spring than late fall.