A non-Doctor's guess at Demen's injury: Torn UCL

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April 2nd, 2012 at 12:22 PM
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JeepinBen
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Joined: 01/22/2010
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A non-Doctor's guess at Demen's injury: Torn UCL

So I'm not a doctor, I'm just going off of personal experience and the picture that Kenny tweeted.

ApXjZKCCQAAPfDD[1]

Based on the above picture (Thumb in a cast, other fingers free) and the fact that he'll be out 4-6 weeks I'm guessing Kenny has either a chip fracture at the base of his thumb or an Ulnar Collateral Ligament Tear. An x-ray would show which one it is. I have had 2 partial tears of my UCL and they hurt. (There is an Ulnar Cruciate Ligament, that's in the elbow and baseball players mess it up a lot). This injury is often referred to as skier's thumb because the method of injury happens a lot to skiers. It happens a lot to football players too. My first injury was when I tackled someone. Look at the back of your hand and pull your thumb down and towards you - that's the motion that the UCL prevents and how you can damage it. If Kenny slightly missed on a tackle - his thumb connecting with a shoulder or something but the rest of his hand didnt - and his thumb got bent back, that would lead to a UCL tear (my guess).

Depending on severity and if he needs surgery 4-6 weeks is a typical recovery. It's a joint that is easily taped and depending on his repair/recovery he should have no lasting effects. I had partial tears (no surgery or repair) and wasn't diagnosed for about 8 weeks after the first injury. My only medical restriction is that I'm not allowed to put my thumb in a bowling ball - all other sports and stuff are fine. Kenny's at Michigan, was diagnosed on sight and has some of the best medical care in the world. I'm sure he'll be fine come the fall. Here's wishing him the best during his recovery.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

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April 2nd, 2012 at 12:25 PM | He said he was out for a few (Score:3 Normal)
The2nd_JEH
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Joined: 06/11/2010
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He said he was out for a few days.

HEY! You there!

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:31 PM | That could just be Linebacker (Score:2 Normal)
Lionsfan
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Joined: 06/03/2011
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That could just be Linebacker Speak though.

It doesn't really matter though, since he'll be healthy by fall

If you're doing nothing, how do you know when you're finished?

StraightDave owes me a steak dinner

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM | Could still be true (Score:1)
JohnCorbin
Joined: 07/12/2011
MGoPoints: 187

He could just be missing a few days of practice, and then when he comes back maybe he'll be limited or something.

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:29 PM | Skiers Thumb (Score:1)
Tim in Huntsville
Joined: 11/06/2010
MGoPoints: 67

I did the skiers thumb thing many years ago skiing in Montana.  I skied on it the rest of the day and it was painful, but the pain was gone after a month or two and it has never given me problems since that time..

Tim

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:39 PM | This ^ (Score:2 Normal)
EZ Bud
Joined: 01/04/2011
MGoPoints: 476

A common injury from falling on an open hand with a ski pole still in it. I partially tore my UCL after taking a spill in Colorado. I didn't bother getting it fixed since I'm not a professional athlete, but you basically lose the pinching motion of your thumb (to the extent I couldn't even grab a bath towel between my thumb and index finger). Took mine about 6 weeks to get better without a cast or proper treatment. He'll be fine (if our mGoHolidayInnExpress opinions are accurate).

This is MICHIGAN

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:32 PM | Yep (Score:1 Redundant)
JeepinBen
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I was casted 4 weeks and I have no real limitations (can pinch etc) but I do get pain, my joint is still unstable but at this point that's more the damage I did to the cartilidge in the thumb knuckle than the ligament itself.

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:29 PM | Pinching (Score:2 Normal)
Tim in Huntsville
Joined: 11/06/2010
MGoPoints: 67

My injury was 30 years ago and I can still remember having the inability to grab a towel..  It hurt like hell back then, but it healed completely with no pain.  As a rock climber, I often have to grab holds that are actually called 'pinches', so I am glad there are no lingering effects..

When I hurt mine, I swear my thumb actually bent back and touched my arm.  I can see how you could do something like that making a tackle.

Tim

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:56 PM | particularly as much as... (Score:1)
MSHOT92
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our guys seem to arm tackle rather than moving their feet to plant a solid shoulder. Understandibly the backs etc. are rather shifty and quick, but it's something I've noticed for quite some time, it's like we've lost the fundamentals of solid open field tackling that other teams have mastered. To me it's the difference between good and elite programs. Sound tackling instead of third and fourth level whifs.

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:32 PM | Strange that it's called an "ulnar" collateral ligament (Score:2 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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The ulnar nerve does not extend through your thumb. 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:34 PM | Agreed.  It's on the ulnar (Score:2)
dmblue
Joined: 03/12/2009
MGoPoints: 569

Agreed.  It's on the ulnar side though.  They should have thrown the word pollicis to make it more clear

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:53 PM | Relationship with ulnar nerve is directional (Score:3 Normal)
bornintheArbor
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It's on the ulnar side of the thumb. Not directly related to the ulnar nerve. Things on the hand are basically differentiated as being on the ulnar side of things or the radial side of things. Ulnar means medial towards your pinky. Radial is lateral towards your thumb.  But because hands can be both face up or face down, to say something is medial or lateral would be confusing to a degree. Not everyone automatically assumes anatomical position.  So they say ulnar or radial because that's a constant that doesn't change. 

 

Edit: looks like dmblue got back faster.  Ulnar pollicis collateral ligament? All the ligaments between the IP and MCP joints in the digits are "ulnar/radial collateral ligaments".  Perhaps they didn't want to add pollices for the thumb because it isn't unique to the thumb. But knowing how insane anatomical labelling is, I'm surprised they didn't do things like "ulnar/radial digitorum CL" and "ulnar/radial pollicis CL". 

Flickr

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:53 PM | I think you are just (Score:2)
dmblue
Joined: 03/12/2009
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I think you are just suppposed to say ulnar collateral ligament of the thumb or whichever digit #.  For most of the intrisic muscles,ligaments, and maybe tendons, they just grouped them together.  

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:59 PM | Yes, because one can term the (Score:2 Normal)
gopoohgo
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Yes, because one can term the collateral ligament on the medial aspect of the elbow either:

"ulnar collateral ligament at the elbow"

or

"medial collateral ligament at the elbow" so you don't confuse it with the MCL @ the knee.

Anatomist fail.  Burn all your Netter's!!!!

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:24 PM | I burned my Grants (Score:3 Normal)
bornintheArbor
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I burned my Grants Dissector...but that's only because it had an accident in the anatomy lab. Would never burn Netter's. That thing is expensive.

 

Another thing that I stupidly omitted in my long response. The ulna and the radius play a huge role in the naming of things in the arms and hands. Which, really was the answer I should have given. Sorry.

Flickr

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:17 PM | A a non-medical person (Score:3 Normal)
Erik_in_Dayton
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This is all confusing.  Can't it just be called "Thumb Ligament No. 2"? Or at least the Ulnar Collateral Ligament That Has Nothing Really to Do With the Ulnar Nerve? 

It's tough to make predictions, especially about the future. -- Yogi Berra

                         

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:29 PM | Nope (Score:3 Normal)
Center Ice
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It's supposed to be as confusing as possible, so you sound much smarter. Like when we use anatomical position to describe location, instead of easy stuff like left and right.

Twitter

April 2nd, 2012 at 3:03 PM | It should be, but then most (Score:3 Normal)
ForeverVoyaging
Joined: 09/24/2011
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It should be, but then most anatomists would be out of a job. And since they have little intelligence and even fewer marketable skills, they insist on perpetuating the present nomenclature.

April 2nd, 2012 at 5:05 PM | What are you talking about? (Score:3 Normal)
dmblue
Joined: 03/12/2009
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What are you talking about?

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:52 PM | Different reference (Score:2)
Center Ice
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It is referencing the Unla, the long bone in the forearm.

It's been a while since I went through it all in paramedic, probably need to do CE to refresh before I try and drop the knowledge.

Twitter

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:37 PM | He could have just been (Score:4 Normal)
nickbob
Joined: 03/27/2009
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He could have just been hitchhiking with too much vigor.

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:52 PM | Also known as gamekeeper's thumb (Score:2 Normal)
mooseman
Joined: 07/10/2008
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Partial tears will heal with protection. Complete tears get surgically repaired.

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:54 PM | hopefully (Score:5 Normal)
TrppWlbrnID
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he will get the advice of some non-non-doctors.

2013 resolution - make it onto the 2014 favorite MGoPosters post, not ironically
April 2nd, 2012 at 1:29 PM | If he didn't (Score:2 Normal)
JeepinBen
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I'd love to know where he got the cast

"Over? Did you say, over? Nothing is over until we decide it is!"

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:00 PM | Been hearing on Twitter and (Score:2 Normal)
justingoblue
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Been hearing on Twitter and whatnot that he bought it out of the back of a Jeep from a guy named Ben.

Go Blue!

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:55 PM | As a doctor, great (Score:2 Normal)
gopoohgo
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As a doctor, great diagnosis!

My treatment for that would have put him in a temporary SPICA splint and said "Go see Dr so and so, my partner who is a hand surgeon" hahahha.

April 2nd, 2012 at 12:57 PM | I'm no doctor... (Score:3 Normal)
Mr. Yost
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...but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

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April 2nd, 2012 at 12:58 PM | My guess? (Score:5 Normal)
My name ... is Tim
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My uneducated guess? 

Leprosy.

"Nowhere is there a better university, in any way, than this Michigan of ours."

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:14 PM | One thing we know (Score:4 Normal)
BiSB
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It's not lupus.

It's never lupus.

They no longer call me Bisbiño

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:44 PM | OMG IT'S PROBABLY A (Score:4 Normal)
blackgandhi
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OMG IT'S PROBABLY A LUPUS/LEPROSY COMBO!! EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!!!

GO BLUE! MClub supports you.

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:49 PM | Luprosy? (Score:4 Normal)
BiSB
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Luprosy?

They no longer call me Bisbiño

April 2nd, 2012 at 4:18 PM | Better than lepus. (Score:2)
M-Wolverine
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That's not a good night.  Especially if you get it in your hands, like Demens.

"I love him, he's a great coach, he's a great mentor, he's a great friend. He's every single thing you want a college coach to be, and he does it flawlessly." -David Molk

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:32 PM | For what it's worth (Score:3 Normal)
MGoStudent
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For what it's worth, I know [someone extremely close to the process], and that person said it was "Gamekeeper's Thumb", which I'm assuming is a term for a torn UCL, so this seems like a spot-on diagnosis.

[ED:BISB - Don't want to get anyone in trouble, so I edited out the person's exact relation to the rethumbening process. Sufficed to say that IF this post is accurate, the redacted person is easily close enough to make such a call.]

EDIT:  Thanks for the watchful edit, absolutely don't want to get anyone in trouble.

Closing an open tag...

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April 2nd, 2012 at 1:12 PM | Wait. Are thumbs... (Score:1)
wolpherine2000
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...fingers?

 

As a matter of fact I like beer.

April 2nd, 2012 at 1:13 PM | I heard he practiced this weekend (Score:2 Normal)
SpreadGuru
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With the cast.

"Forty-two Big Ten Championships!"

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:28 PM | Hmmmm... (Score:0 Overrated)
April 2nd, 2012 at 1:37 PM | For reference purposes (Score:2)
BiSB
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They no longer call me Bisbiño

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:33 PM | I had this exact injury a (Score:2)
AA2Denver
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I had this exact injury a couple years ago. I did it while racing my bike, took a corner too hot and tried to soften the blow. It's no picnick, it freakin hurt. I couldn't grab my handlebars for about 4 weeks, it eventually healed to full strength. For the next few weeks he will be able to do most everything but tackling and probably some weight training.

-----------------

Screw Lance.

April 2nd, 2012 at 2:58 PM | Did anyone else freak out and (Score:1)
DrunkOnHiggins
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Did anyone else freak out and open this thread not even knowing what a UCL is?

"And if that doesn't wet your appetite, you're watching the wrong channel."

You can usually find me bumping some Reggae, hammered on Higgins Lake with the goon squad. #HALOL

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April 2nd, 2012 at 6:13 PM | Guilty. (Score:1)
Mr Mxyzptlk
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And halfway expected a belated April fool's prank.

April 2nd, 2012 at 3:14 PM | Hey I tore my UCL (Score:3 Normal)
Znell
Joined: 03/16/2011
MGoPoints: 63

Me and Kenny have so much in common now! Anyone want to see my sweet scar?! No? No one? That's never worked with the ladies either.

April 2nd, 2012 at 3:20 PM | The technical term for this (Score:2 Normal)
ppToilet
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kind of injury is a "boo-boo".

April 2nd, 2012 at 10:29 PM | I'm not a Doctor, BUT (Score:2)
Maizenblueball
Joined: 12/08/2011
MGoPoints: 487

I do watch a lot of Scrubs.  So that makes me qualified to give my medical diagnosis... Demen's injury is from excessive thumb wrestling.

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