maybe sit a couple rounds out
If people who didn't go to the school want to be fans, what's wrong with that? The school represents some kind of values, or image, and for Michigan what's not to like?
The Team the team the team.
I was busy passing out 174 candy bars last night, so I missed this. But, yes, anyone can cheer for any team!!! Ridiculous. So a plumber cannot cheer for a college team?? I pick sides sometimes in MAC games, but I didn't go to a MAC school, I went to Michigan. It's America, cheer for whomever you want! They are just mad because more people cheer for Michigan than state.
Just let it go...
They're jealous. They wish they had as many fans as us. You think they wouldn't dream of having Spartan Stadium filled with 109,000 fans every home game?
Maybe, but the weird thing is that during basketball season I would argue that they have had the massive non-alum following, not Michigan.
I live in NC in the Triangle. MSU MBB has played Duke and UNC numerous times. People are much more familar with Michigan as a brand in MBB, not to mention football (thanks to the Fab5 and last year's run).
Perhaps nationally, but I can't tell you how many "I root for Michigan football and Michigan State basketball" people over the last decade.
I've got a buddy, born in Memphis, roots for the UT Vols in football and the Memphis Tigers in basketball. THE EXACT ANALOGY I USE is that it would be like me pulling for Michigan in football and State in basketball. Not unreasonable to think there's more than a few Michiganders who do the same thing.
I have absolutely no problem with non-alumni being fans of a school. I see no harm in it at all.
I do, however, hate when people say "we" when discussing professional sports. The TIgers made the ALCS. You did nothing. "We" didn't make the ALCS, "they" made the ALCS. For whatever reason, that's always bothered me. While I don't do it, I don't mind as much when alumni of a University say "we." There is a shared connection with the University that raises alumni to more than just a fan/viewer - you were part of the University at one time and have a legitimate connection with the team.
I don't know how I came to these decisions in my head, but that's always been the distinctions I've made.
Disagree. While I/we didn't make the ALCS, we as fans are an integral part of why there is a team at any level. More importantly, we is a less complicated way of describing the team on internet forums.
Also, WE pay their outrageous salaries by buying tickets to games, TV packages, memorabilia, etc. We have every right to refer to teams that we as fans support as "we".
I remember reading an interesting Grantland article discussing the "we" issue in sports. I agree and I cringe when somebody says/writes that.
There's definitely nothing wrong with somebody rooting for whatever team they want. I was born and raised a Michigan fan, and I'm sure as hell not going to ditch the team and my fandom just because some guy says I have to be an Alumni to cheer. Sounds pretty childish to me.
There have been many sociological and pysch articles written on the issue of "we" in sports, but at least for the school it plays a critical role. The shared connection of "we" is what keeps people connected and donating to the school after they leave and is one of the justifactions for schools putting money into sports.
in the good old days. I remember starting out objecting to it, maybe for somewhat snobby reasons, coming to think that to the degree it suggested people felt part of something it was great.
The Walmart Woverine trope is fascinating when MSU fans are always accusing Ann Arborites of being snobs. The fact that working people tend to go for Michigan over State certainly suggests Michigan is doing something right. Pisses MSY fans off so much that they go out and make fun of workign people; you'd think they would see the contradiction.
If the sale of sports gear is an indication, MSU has almost no national reach whatsoever.
This seems unnecessarily complicated. If you're a fan, by definition you have an obsessive, fantatical devotion to the team, so why not include yourself in with it? If you didn't buy tickets and merchandise, the club wouldn't have the money to acquire all those players, anyway.
Sports teams do no exist without fans. Its how the bills are paid. We is 100% justifiable.
Regardless of the meta values behind it, saying "we" is ultimately a useful shorthand. Typing "Michigan" or "The Wolverines" over and over again is a pain. Saying "M" or "UM" reads like a verbal tic. This is a Michigan blog. If I say "we", you know what I'm talking about.
And it's not like this is the only place I do that. If I'm talking about the company I work for, I'll say "we" even if it's a project I don't work directly on.
Agreed. It's much easier when discussing sports to use "we" vs. "they" rather than saying the team name everytime. It's just an acronym, and it's just fine.
How many sports fans say something along the lines of "If we can stop turning the ball over and keep them in 3rd and long situations, we should be in good shape."? What is wrong with that?
No way. There is a reason that so many sports teams' jerseys have the team name at home and the city name on the road. They represent the city in which they play. That includes the fans of that city. I have no problem with people saying "we" won when their team wins, unless those same people say "they" lost when their team loses.
They're the Detroit Tigers. So if anyone is playing the "we card" frist, it's the teams. The Lakers changed names from the Minneapolis Lakers to the LA Lakers. It's not "The Tigers of Detroit" or "The Lakers from Los Angeles."
My paycheck and health insurance come from the University of Michigan. Is this person seriously saying that I have no right to cheer for a team that represents my employer?
Also, this is ironic because I work with two diehard Sparties.(who did not attend college)
Watch the video before you post.
Students, Alumni, and Faculty
Lots of folks who aren't faculty draw paychecks from Michigan. What about kids too young to have gone to college yet?
Lots of folks who aren't faculty draw paychecks from Michigan. What about kids too young to have gone to college yet?
i dont think that i have to be accepted to u of m to be a fan/ say 'we' when disscussing their teams
Or what if you have family members who went there? What if I, as an alumnus, have kids who grow up Michigan fans, and then one of my kids goes to Harvard or Emory or some school that doesn't have big time football?
And MSU has plenty of those kinds of fans. My little brother went to Western. He is a Michigan fan, and lots of his college friends were State fans.
This is why I hate it when MSU people use this. It's not that they don't have non-alumni fans, it's that they have far fewer of them than us.
For example, UM employs some 4,000 nurses.Then there are the thousands of people who are employed in a wide variety of jobs.
This is why little brother is relevant. It transcends the playing field. A university that can't attract non-alumni or any fans out of state will always criticize the crown jewel of the state for bringing in fans who didn't attend that school. They are basically complimenting Michigan without knowing it.
The only thing that bugs me is the front runners who latch onto a team because it wins big, but abandon it when it struggles. If you want to be a fan through thick and thin, as if you were an alum, go for it. Not everyone gets to attend college, why can't those people pick a team to support?
Losing enthusiasm for a team you're a fan of is different from being a "front-runner" fan who was a huge Pats fan a couple years back and is now buying a Manning Broncos jersey.
Probably the test is, would you root for a team to beat the Pistons? If no, you're unenthusiastic, but still a fan.
I don't know if that's really the test. If someone asked me if I'd root for a team to beat, say, the San Diego Padres, I'd say "no," but it's not because I'm a fan of them - I literally don't care about National League baseball either way, so I wouldn't root for or against any team there (with the sole exception of the case of an NL team meeting the Tigers in the WS).
Now if you said, "Would you rather see the Pistons win than anyone else?" I think that would come closer.
I think your last paragraph is what he meant. I'm the same way as you - I watched the Pistons all the time in the mid-2000s and have followed less closely since. But if anyone asks who my favorite NBA team is, it's still the Pistons. The difference that posters are trying to make here is if I picked a different good team to cheer for in place of the Pistons when they took a down turn.
Their obsession with this concept is quite bizarre.
I support the Meijer Wolverine.
seems pretty far-fetched to me.
As an alum, I love our fanbase whether they went to school at Michigan or not.
before I ever enrolled as a student. I videotaped every Michigan game that was on TV (not that many, considering I grew up in Texas). When I finally enrolled at Michigan at age 31, it didn't kick me up a notch of fandom or earn me status as an "official" Michigan fan (or Michigan Man). I had already earned that with every bit of joy ("Goodbye... Hello, Heisman!") and suffering (Kordell to Westbrook arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh) I'd been through as a result of living and dying Maize and Blue.
I've been "we" since age 5, man. I got 99 claims to Michigan fandom, and the degree ain't one. But I do like the way it looks on the wall. Mahogany frame, ya'll.
I am associated with who neither went to MSU, worked at MSU, or had a relative who went to MSU and is a Michigan State fan. And her rationale is because Green is her favorite color. Everybody else in the same situation cheers for Michigan. For obvious reasons. For some reason, this gets Sparty really persnickety.
Well this really isn't the case though. This might have something to do with where you grew up, but I knew a lot of kids growing up who were MSU fans over UM, despite not having a "connection." That said, far more people with no actual affiliation cheer for Michigan, and I agree that the reasons are obvious. But MSU purports that all of their fans are technically affiliated in some way and that isn't true. Some people just like MSU better. Just not anywhere near as many as Michigan.
I had the same reason for picking my favorite NFL team.
When I was 5.
as a non-alumni fan, and if a MSU fan starts throwing out the walmart insults, I usually just try to joke it off and say something like "Well actually I get my Michigan stuff from Meijer" and then they usually think I'm serious and start lecturing me about what they meant about Walmart Wolverine. It's kind of funny how serious they take their walmart insults. It's almost like they all have stock in Walmart the way they are promoting it by randomly talking about it over and over.
I also find some of the insults from MSU fans about non-alumni fans hypocritical. They often say stuff that non UM alumni fans take shots at MSU as an academic instiute (which I agree is dumb to do when it happens), but I think it's ignorant to not realize that there are many other good colleges in the state of Michigan besides Michigan and Michigan St. Just take a look at the MIAA schools - Kalamazoo, Albion, Calvin, Hope, ect. -All just as or more prestigious than MSU. Just because someone doesn't go to MSU or UM, doesn't mean they aren't educated.
Someone also may grow up a Michigan fan but may not go to Michigan because of various reasons such as financial aid, location, student size, programs/majors, ect.
Oh hell, just tell them you studied anthropology at U of M and your masters thesis was "MSU: A study of primitive cultures that fail to evolve "
is why we need posbangs back. Dude doesn't even have 100 MGoPoints yet and adds this gem to the board. Welcome sir.
I'm not a Walmart Wolverine; I'm a River Town Crossings Wolverine, which makes that steaming pile of shit in Okemos look like a flea market.
I think the only reason state fans get upset about "walmart wolverines" is because us as michigan fans constantly try to establish our superiority over them. they seem to use it to try and bring down our fan base as a whole pointing out those of us who dont fit the profile we try to highlight, the profile of the leader, the "best". But really they have fans that didnt go to their school, just like how a lot of us a slippery rock fans despite never attending The Rock. Fans follow a school for a variety of reasons and we shouldnt care about why somebody is a fan.
It's just a way to deal with cognitive dissonance - if our school is superior like I know it is, why do they have so many more fans? Well it must be because we have all the true fans while their fans are front runners that bought their t-shirts at Wal-Mart!
Until they start disowning fans that aren't alumni, it's hypocrisy.
The major reason Michigan has, and will continue to have a larger fan base is simple; the team wins on a consistent basis. As a youngster involved in athletics in the state if Michigan you had to essentially choose one or the other. To me it was simple. Michigan won consistently, while state did not. You may find four years worth of kids who favor state because they had consistent success. That would be about it though. The majority will continue to root for Michigan.
If I shouldn't be a fan tell Dave Brandon to stop producing so many WOW moments.
On a completely unrelated note, I'm sure that every Spartan basketball fan over the last 20 years is an MSU grad.
I'm pretty sure Sparty Stadium isn't full of just cow farmers alumni so that's a stupid argument whenever they give it. But to be honest, I do get annoyed when a non-MSU alum gives me crap about MSU-UM. Do you know how annoying it is to have a relative say from 2002-2006 that MSU has a better football team and this "will be the year"?
When it comes to talking crap about academics, saying one is better than the other, I do believe you should have a degree from one of those institutions or plan on attending before jumping in that fire. Don't talk about how UM is greater than MSU and you went to U Phoenix.
Walmarter here with a masters in Structural engineering and season tickets. Bring it on I say!
Meijer devotee with a Doctorate. I got your back.
millions of fans of CFB who didn't attend the university they cheer for. Without that interest, CFB would be a shadow of itself. Most notably, Ginger in Chicago wouldn't have the Big Ten Network or ESPN 2 or U to watch Sparty club Illinois without non-alum fans of CFB.
Likewise, there are thousands of students who are totally apathetic to sports teams on big campuses and feel no connection whatsover to XYZ field or Coach ABC.
Good rant, though. Kid was pretty annoying / entertaining.
So let's say I grew up in Ann Arbor, had a family full of UM alums, I followed Michigan my whole life, applied, got in, but also got into Harvard, and I decided to go there instead because, well, its Harvard.
I'm sure that makes me a lowlife Walmart Wolverine in their eyes, right?
Their infatuation with this whole idea really baffles me sometimes. Cheer for whoever the hell you want to cheer for, and to hell with what anyone else thinks.
I grew up in Ann Arbor, Dad got a couple degrees from the university, and I spent most of my free time doing activities somehow related to the university (summer camps, honor bands, volunteering at Mott, etc). I followed football religiously (I would seriously genuflect every time my school bus drove by Michigan Stadium).
When college time came around, I could either go to Michigan or to Caltech (up there with MIT as the top 2 engineering schools in the world). I decided to go to the school in Pasadena with no football team, a D-3 basketball that won their first game in 200+ tries when I was there, no snow, and an average of 1 Nobel Prize winner in each 4-year block of students.
All of my friends in college continued rooting for their hometown teams - my best friends were an Ohio fan, a Texas fan, Mizzou fan, and Florida fan.
Really, the MSU people are just jealous that they can't get the same state-wide and nation-wide appeal that Michigan does. So they do shit like Walmarting to pull Michigan fans down, because sometimes the only way to feel good about onself is to make other people look bad. Doesn't mean there aren't Walmart-caliber people in our fanbase, but how people root is their own decision. As long as you have a team and you stick with it, fuck everyone else.
Otherwise, bad call.
(/s, just because you never know)
I am confused, why would someone go to the Michigan of the East if they were accepted into the actual University of Michigan...
Run away from parents? Live in a different city? Not go to college with the same kids from high school?
"Walmart Wolverine" brings up. I'm surprised that no one--especially at these unverisities--doesn't note the inherent bigotry in that label.
Those who who use that term do so to reduce the humanity of those they are labeling. Walmart Wolverines is a codeword for white trash. We all know that it is. Yet, no one calls MSU fans on the carpet for it. Why? Why in an age we are quick to condemn homophobic or racist comments do we permit classist comments? Considering the ongoing class warfare in this country and the horrors that this conflict has caused in the past we would be wise to be vigilant about the use of such offensive terms.
I think most of us don't pay much more attention because we're not insecure about our lives.
use of racist terms ,women when sexist terms are used, and gays when homophobic terms are used? I want you to clarify that for me.
Its not different, but the psychology of the oppressed is different than the psychology of the oppressing class. When someone calls me "cracker" I don't get my feathers ruffled. When someone calls me "chief" I do (Native American). In this scenario, MSU feels like they are the oppressed so they can say whatever they want to. As Michigan alumni, staff, employees and fans, we can point to ~30+ game margin and say "scoreboard" the same way that yankee fans this week are saying, "8 world series champs for Boston is cute, call me when you have 24." We are the historical dominators (ergo oppressors) of this rivalry.
I'm over-simplifying but you get the picture.
Michigan is home to me; nevermind that I actually went to CMU. I thought at one time that I may want to come to Ann Arbor for a grad degree, but with a CPA certificate and my own software company, I don't really need it.
I did, however, send 2 or my 3 kids to school in Ann Arbor (and the other one may end up there eventually)..
I have been a fan since back when we used to watch Rick Leach play, then get inspired to go out and knock the living crap out of each other playing sandlot football, and I will always be a fan.
Go Fire Up, Chips!
Where is a good place to tailgate with fellow Michigan fans on Saturday in East Lansing?
I made it through 30 seconds before the overwhelming urge to roll my eyes like a valley girl took control, and I stopped. Hope there was something actually funny in there for folks who watched the whole thing
As a non-alum who has never even lived in the state of Michigan I find this reasoning adorably stupid. Is every Dallas Cowboys fan from Dallas? There's all sorts of fans of pro/college teams, some good and some bad. What matters is that you stick with the team through thick and thin.
I think most Spartan fans like to portray non-alum Michigan fans as people who could not get into the university where in my experience it has been the opposite. Most of my "Walmart Wolverines" friends were admitted to the University of Michigan but chose to attend other schools (Ivy League, Liberal Arts colleges, etc.). None of them applied or even considered applying to Michigan State.
There are a large number highly educated and successful Michigan natives that did not attend Michigan due to other opportunities but returned to the state for graduate school or other employment opportunities. In my experience, none of these people in the Metro Detroit area root for MSU.
I don't care to watch the vid, but it sounds like Sparty's inferiority complex is showing. What do I care if U-M fans aren't alumni like me? The more the merrier. And if that pisses off Sparties, so much the better.
This sums up my feelings perfectly. I'm an alum but if you want to be a fan and didn't go to UM, that's your choice and I'm perfectly happy to cheer along side of you.
I grew up 20 minutes from AA...have been cheering for M FB for 45 years. I had the grades to attend UM but the family didn't have that kind of cash. Okay, we didn't have ANY cash. I worked, put myself through community college, transfered to Walsh College (Troy) and got my undergrad there.
I'm proud where I came from, how I got to where I am today, and if all that makes me a WalMart Wolverine then so be it. I'm not jealous of M grads but happy for all of you...proud to cheer alongside you. I have never, ever felt unaccepted by alums, students, etc.
Alumni, students, and faculty are the only ones that should say 'we'. It's a university, not a pro team. And that university is there for its alumni, students, and faculty.
Just like in high school, I think any school is a family experience. I have no problems with parents (who are footing the bill in many cases) and siblings rooting for a university because of family connections.
How odd. People who have worked at UM longer than you have been alive don't have the right to say "we". Something about that seems so terribly unjust.
so it's fine for me, with my 6 year old liberal arts degree, to say "we really need to win the division this year, that's going to be huge for us" as though I'm actually a member of the current team... but not for, say, Brady Hoke's wife. Interesting.
Anyone and everyone can say we. If you get butthurt about it because of a degree or whatever it might be then that's your baggage and instead of trying to make me carry some of it I think that I'll leave you to the whole load.
What does that make me?
I used to be critical of the whole "we" thing but as message boards and discussions via internet have become ever so huge, it's just too practical to say we instead of The Universty of XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXX.
e.g. "We need to move the ball against the Spartans this weekend for a few long drives to wear down their defense; if we continuously go 3 and out it's going to become harder and harder to put up points on them." I guess one can insert "the guys" or "Michigan's football players", but srsly, it just makes sense to say we. I agree at times in can be cringe worthy but for game discussion it's simply the easiest way.
*This is more to the discussion above and doesn't really fit down here.
Also, to what thes thread was really about: I didn't go to Michigan nor did any relatives and I didn't even grow up there. I. Don't. Give. A. Sh*t. Nobody can take my fan card away; I won't let them.
I always refer to the team as "Michigan." The only time I use the words "our," "we," or similar pronouns, I'm referring to this blog or the fanbase in general.
I didn't attend Michigan because I didn't want to find myself in debt. I absolutely could have gone to UM. I got a 33 on my ACT and I decided to go to BGSU for nothing. Can't beat that.
I grew up in Ohio with a family full of Ohio fans. I've been a Michigan fan since I could consciously make a decision about who I was going to be a fan of (I was 5 in '97.. and Charles Woodson in The Game sold me). I don't want to hear that I'm a "Walmart Wolverine" because I didn't go to school there. And I don't think it's fair to question any other non-alumni's fandom.
Spartan fans just don't understand this concept of garning fans around the world. Michigan State is a lot like Bowling Green. You don't grow up a Falcon fan... you're a fan because you went there.
I must love sofas.
A V8 engine is complicated.
But Bees are complex.
I'm not an alum, but my father is and I was born at U of M. I've always bled maize and blue, even all four years I was at Western.
Are you me?
Well before I ever thought I would go to school at Michigan. I almost went to CMU but I would still have been a big Michigan fan/supporter!
could not get in or want there kids to get in. My uncle bought a class of 2013 shirt for my cousin when he was born, he framed it and gave it to him after he graduated. First person in our family to get in. He was told his senior year in High school he would not get in to Michigan, he did. I was simply brought to a game in 95(Virginia) as a teen living in California then, I was hooked. My wife applied, wasn't interviewed for med school, 2 years ago applied and was interviewed but didn't get in to do residency. We wanted to be associated but its hard, especially for out of state people, I was merely born in Michigan so I kept UM in my blood since it was a family desire to get in. It's just nobody has a desire to make MSU a goal when they can aim higher, beyond a few ivy schools UM is on top.
"YOU ARE!!!" "PENN STATE!!!" ...obviously has nothing to do with Michigan but college sports has a different feel. When you're on campus and in the stadium it's perfectly natural to feel like you're a part of something. People need to realize this and move on. I didn't go to Michigan but my Dad has had season tickets since I was 5 (29 now). I went to school in a different country. I don't relate to anything accademically but the football team is special to me. All those Saturdays with my Dad are still special to me. It means something to me.
This. I didn't attend Michigan,I served in the Army and went to school in another state. But my Dad started taking me to Michigan games when I was 8 years old, now I'm 32 and I still join him whenever my girlfriend and I can make the trip and get tickets. The memories of that mean the world to me, and continuing to do it today means just as much. As far as I'm concerned, the Sparty bros and their skanks who use that term would tell me that those memories are for shit. Fuck them.
That might not be a bad chant to adopt...
As someone with a couple degrees from U-M, I have zero problem with anyone being a fan of my school. I think it's flattering if anything. I recognize that a lot of people couldn't attend, for various reasons.
This "issue" makes me laugh a little though, because it's basically an acknowledgement that Spartans can't say anything to those of us that did go here.
What a schmuck. I guess I can't go to any more games even though I have season tickets. Bummer.
As long as you don't try and make fun of Sparty's academics when you didn't go to a school as good as msu, then there's nothing wrong with it. I'm a pround Walmarter myself.
Any high school or college, then?
I kid, I kid. I know next to nothing about Sparty's academics.
Oh, this is rich coming from Staee...
What a surprise, all the non-alums are so offended and taken aback...
Though this guy comes off as a douche his logic seems correct. If you haven't spent four years eating, living, and breathing on a particular college campus, poured thousands of dollars into tuition and living expenses into any given school, or are employed there, why even care? Why not root for the Lions with such fervor? Or the Pistons? Or the Tigers?
Collegiate Athletics is a uniquely American phenomenon. This great country of ours is filled with so many large academic institutions. College Athletics has literally grown from the adoration and loyalty that these alumni feel for their schools.
Makes you wonder if the commercialization of College Athletics and the growing number of "Walmart Wolverine" types is a coincidence.
UM pursued the non-affliated fans, not the other way. Do you seriously think Yost built a 85,000 football stadium in the 1920's(when the average person had far less opportunity to go to college) for alums and students? No, he didn't. He, like Rockne at Notre Dame, purposefully went after "subway alumni" to grow interest in the sport and in the university.
The Big House is big because of commercialization. It is designed for the student, alumni, faculty, and yes, the football fan. Decades later Don Canham further embraced the subway alumni by directly appealing to the working class fans(because the Big House was a big empty) with promotions, advertisements, etc. Oh and the hiring of a man who epitomized Midwestern working class values--one Glenn "Bo" Schembechler --didn't hurt the cause either.
Heh, what a surprise, you never attended M. Sorry for pushing your buttons.
So high school students or members of the military can't be fans of any college teams whatsoever? Seems legit.
Heh, what a surprise, you agree with the guy in the video but say he's coming off as a douche, when you yourself are as well.
I was pointing out the foolishness of your post.
Real thought out.
Cosign. Well said, State Street.
So those recruits that say they've been Michigan fans for life are wrong? I'm sure they would be interested to know Bando frowns upon them.
High school kids can't be Michigan students or alums.
Another red herring!
How is it a red herring? The statement was only people that have attended can be fans. They haven't attended. No mention was made of opportunity.
And again, members of the military can't cheer for any specific team?
Here's the issue. If your argument is that attending the University makes you a bigger fan, a better fan, or gives stronger ties to the school and the program as a whole, I agree. I wouldn't argue that. If you're arguing that anyone that didn't attend can't or shouldn't be a fan of the university and it's teams/programs, that's ridiculous.
Then we agree.
Now I have to tear up my 100 million Michigan Football donation, sadly, it also included another 100 million just for the marching band so it would never again be at the mercy of a myopic Athletic Director.
I'm sure I'll be able to find a women's roller derby team to root for somewhere that could use it.
Do we though? You agreed with a post from someone who said people that didn't attend shouldn't be fans. So which is it?
Did you actually read what he said?
Did you? You don't think questioning why someone would even care about the school or the team if they didn't attend, and then immediately following with the suggestion to go follow the Lions is akin to saying you shouldn't be a fan?
If he was attempting to express the same idea as your post below, he did it in a pretty terrible way.
Of course you agree.
Wasn't going to post in this thread, because I'm not actually offended or taken aback -- don't particularly care whether someone thinks I should qualify as a fan, but I can answer this part:
"If you haven't spent four years eating, living, and breathing on a particular college campus, poured thousands of dollars into tuition and living expenses into any given school, or are employed there, why even care? "
Several reasons, but primarily: I was born in UofM Hospital; I spent 18 years "eating, living, and breathing" in Ann Arbor, attending nearly every football game (even the spring ones), and most hockey games (including those in the early-mid 1980s when you could walk up twenty minutes before the game and sit on the glass); and both my parents and uncles are alums and season ticket holders, as are most of their friends and mine.
I'm not saying my reasons are better worse than any other's, but that's why I care -- and why I still pay for my season tickets even though I live 1,200 miles away and can only make a game or two per year. I guess I could have stopped caring when I graduated from Pioneer and decided to go out of state for school, but I didn't. If that doesn't qualify me to be a fan as much as someone who flew in from the east coast for a two year grad progam, or to teach a few classes, then so be it.
The fact is that these respective teams are public relations tools. Both schools want the subway alumni fans. More fans equal more revenue for programs and more publicity and good feelings for the university. At some MSU fans will realize this and stop using this hypocritical argument.
My mom and dad are both from Michigan originally. I lived there personally for several years. I have a brother and a sister who were both born in Ann Arbor. My mom and 8 out of my 18 total aunts and uncles are Michigan alumni. My parents have been season-ticket holders for decades (since my mom was a student there) even though they have lived in Kansas, Texas, and currently in California.
I did not attend Michigan for financial reasons, so are they saying I can't be fan because I decided not to attend because I couldn't afford it without a scholarship? BS. I am as big a fan as anyone (as my wife will attest) and it has been engrained in me since birth.
Now, I have never been a fan of ever referring to Michigan or any athletic teams with "we", but that is personal preference.
Sparty gonna Spart...
Can you only be a Lions fan if you worked for the organization?
Didnt think so. Everyone has non-alumni fans and as an alum, I welcome them. No reason their fanship is any less valuable than ours. They might be the ones standing up in cheering while the alums yell "Down in front!!"
They are upset because no one outside the state of Michigan gives a rat's ass about Michigan State. Big programs like us have fans across the country and even the world.
Is the correct answer.
Because I don't have a degree from the Michigan State College of Agriculture and Applied Sciences.
First of all, Sparty has PLENTY of in-state fans that are not alums, and they don't complain about that. But their school has no national appeal.
Second, I gave a talk yesterday to a Rotary club and met a Spartan. His granddaughter just asked him if she should go to MSU or U-M, and why. He responded: "If you want to have a good time, go to Michigan State. If you want an education, go to Michigan." Michigan's academic and athletic prowess make it a package that very, very few schools can come close to matching. Even Spartans know this deep in their soulless hearts.
Finally, I am not a U-M grad, but much of my family is. My aunt actually raised money for the university on a full-time basis for years after going to school there. U-M has been in blood and on my TV since I was born, but getting a scholarship and the opportunity to play college sports elsewhere lured me away.
Saying you can't be a fan of a school you didn't attend is akin to saying you can't support a professional sports team if you don't live in that team's city. It's pure jack-assery, and exactly what I expect from MSU.
I'm not alumni I might as well quit life too!
I think this argument that State fans make is ridiculous. I'm a senior in high school, living in Illinois. For whatever reason, I've loved Michigan since I was in elementary school. I more than likely won't be able to go there due to out of state tuition. To say I can't root for them is absurd.
I grew up going to Michigan football games in the seventies and eighties. I've been to more games than most alumni. I didn't go there for a variety of reasons, but why shouldn't I feel a connection to the University of Michigan?
The idea that only alumni have the emotional bond to be fans is silly. I think he'd have a better case if he argued that only former players can be fans. After all, only they have really shared in the emotional bonding and struggles of an athletic team. What do alumni know? They just paid their tuition.
This would be true for pro sports as well.
graduate degrees from Michigan. My dad, his MBA and my uncle HIstory and Law degrees from Michigan. I was a legacy, that chose to go to a smaller school. In retrospect, I wish I had gone to Michigan, but I received an excellent education and college experience. I wanted to be farther from home, being from Jackson.
I have been going to Michigan games since I was two. It's the only school I know and have an impossible time rooting for any other team except those that play against ND, MSU and Ohio. I think Oklahoma would be my second favorite, but there is really no connection.
I'm a non alum fan as well. I lived in Michigan until I was 13, then moved down south. My dad is an alum and I would love to be, but life happened earlier than expected, so I attended school close to home. I love Michigan sports and even when I finish graduate school at UT I will still be a die-hard Michigan fan.
I've been a huge fan of Michigan since I can possibly remember why should that change because I chose a different school to attend?
One things I've started pondering the past few years: So people say, be a fan all you want but maybe don't bash the other school's academics (cough *Michigan State University* cough). So, okay, on the surface that makes sense. However, I feel maybe to a certain extent, that the things UM is about other than sports SHOULD be used as reason to cheer for (again not to go on the offensive with).
Let's say people begin to like Michigan early on in their lives, and it sticks, they're a die-hard and lifelong fan but never attend or live in Michigan. This is all gravy as far as I'm concerned.
And then, as people get older they realize how great an institution UM as a whole really is and all the great things about it/them; shouldnt that maybe even harden the fandom because people who didn't attend CAN say these great things about it? Can't people who are from out of state or who couldn't get in or who chose to go elsewhere or who couldn't afford it, utilize the defense that they root for an institution that does things better than many other do and that notion has helped secure their fandom? I'm not saying to go around and gloat about UM and talk smack about other schools/institutions, that's silly to begin with, but is one able to stick up for their team/school by acknowleding certain things that make the team/school great that aren't necesarrily sports related?
I know plenty of fans who didn't go to Umich that are way bigger fans than some of my out-of-state roommates were at Michigan.
I've been a Michigan fan since birth. (Seriously, my first baby pictures are with Michigan stuff) I currently go to GVSU, and that will never change my fandom. This is why Michigan is such a powerful brand, they accept anyone that will root and buy merchandise. MSU wont.
I regret giving this idiot one more view on his youtube channel
Just shows the intelligence of state fans
The notion that you cannot be a true fan without attending a particular school is downright annoying. If anything, it stems from the jealousy of fans of programs that don't receive the same degree of recognition that accompanies having a large, widespread fanbase.
The only thing that mildly irks me from time to time is when people that aren't students, alumni, faculty, etc. refer to themselves as not just fans, but as "Michigan Men."
"Michigan Man" is a meme solely confined to the football program.
that term became popular by Bo when Bill Frieder decided to leave the BASKETBALL program.
just remind them that the term was used by a non-alum to justify the replacement of an alum with a non-alum
Best post on here!
This subject comes up every year. Let's try not to worry about it. It's jealosy over the Michigan brand.
I live and pay taxes in the state of michigan that help fund all the public schools including michigan, msu and even grand valley. Ill cheer for whoever i feel like! I also dont say we but i don't really care about it. Why is this such big deal? Guess what? Fans generally identify with the teams they support. Without fans there are no teams. I've been going to games since i was a little kid. Unless my children up at another school, ill always cheer for michigan. I'm convinced that people who worry about this stuff must not have any actualy problems with their own life. I mean seriously, how empty is your life to the point where this becomes a legitimate concern?
I was thinking this myself. If you really care about this debate, your life must be either be going really well or be really empty.
I use to work with a self-proclaimed "Biggest MSU Fan" that went to WMU that made the argument to me that Michigan was worse, because we had more fans that didn't go to our school......
Fact is, both schools have most fans not in their alumni base. Who cares? Only those looking to whine that is who.
Most Tigers, Lions and Redwing fans don't even live in Detroit.
I don't really see why people feel the need to justify their fandom. This is about as puzzling to me as Michigan State fans' reactions to academics jabs.
Alum or not, did anybody here want to sit down last fall after the football team started 0-2 and have a chat with some 3rd grade dropout from Alabama or some doofus who watched "Rudy" too many times as a kid? No matter how sincere their devotion to the school (or at least its football program), on some level we just don't give a shit.
MSU students/alums love their school. Listening to people talk up another school (and one that just happens to conveniently have won more football games than any other) is probably annoying. Especially when (as I can attest from my student days), there can be a big difference between attendance at the Big House and Crisler Arena. Just like it would be annoying to see some dude who pulled a North Carolina t-shirt out of the bargain bin giving you the timeout sign as you go about your day.
I've followed my entire life. I am not entitled to root for it because I didn't attend the school. Does that mean my entire life is, you know, a big lie?
The funny thing is, I married an MSU grad whose best friend married an MSU grad but never attended the school, yet lived near campus and now roots for Sparty relentlessly. I don't hold this against her. And I love my wife even if she is a Sparty, but I choose not to watch the rivalry with other Sparties, because, you know, this is what they are. And so, even though I lived in Ann Arbor for more than a decade, and I followed the program my entire life, I am supposed to subscribe to the belief that unless you went to UM you don't have a clue what it's like to go to college or THERE.
What a douchebag. Lots of folks love their country and support it without having served in the military. That doesn't mean they are exempt from saluting the flag and celebrating holidays.
As a Michigan alum, I welcome all fans of my alma mater, regardless of the nature of their connection to the school, as long as they represent the program with class. That goes for students, alumni, and unaffiliated fans.
I do think there is a distinction between alumni fans and non-alumni fans, since as alumni we have a deep connection to the university as a whole by virtue of our student experiences. But that doesn't mean that a non-alum has any less standing as a Michigan sports fan as do those of us who went to school there. And I would much rather associate with classy, well-informed Michigan fans who went to school elsewhere (or not at all) than a fellow alum who does not carry himself/herself in the same fashion.
I'm all for a big tent for good Michigan fans, no matter where they went to school.
The only reason this is an issue is because Sparty doesn't have any non-alumni fans - thus the jealous term of "WalMart Wolverine" was born.
As a non-alumni fan this is my position:
When I watched the 1997 team win that national championship I remember running out of the house with my brother and neighbor and going absolute nuts! I was 9 years old. Thats before me or anybody my age were even thinking about college. I went year in and year out through those battles against Ohio and feeling as if I was part of it all. I was a fan before any of my MSU grad friends/associates had even considered going to MSU. Michigan has been my team since which bookbag or trapper keeper to get was our biggest decision let alone which college to attend. So why would I now let them tell me who I can and cannot root for? Kiss my ass if you dont like my enthusiasm about Michigan sports.
Every kid from Michigan who grew up loving them CAN'T and/or won't go there. Period.
P.s. People are stupid.
That's nearly identical to my experience. I remember seeing bits and pieces of Biakabutuka's 313 and the 1996 upset in the Shoe but the first game I sat down and watched all the way through was the 97 opener when I was 10. I've watched close to every single game since then so I don't really give two shits about someone who tells me I can't be a fan because I didn't go to school in AA.
Both my parents are Michigan alums, but obviously by my username I didn't follow their footsteps and ended up in Kalamazoo for 4 years.
I was raised the Maize and Blue way and in turn I'll raise my kids the same. Embrace the Wal-Mart and screw anyone who looks down upon you and your fandom.
I, too, am a diehard Michigan fan who ended up going to WMU because it just made sense. No shame in it. Always glad to see another Bronco on the board. ROW THE BOAT!
Woohoo! My dad was a WMU alum. I may love Michigan to an unhealthy extent, but I have a soft spot for the broncos.
I went to my first game with a non alumn who held 24 season tickets and hasn't missed a game in 41 years. Please dont attempt to compare "financial" burden with everyone. And as stated here, if public tax dollars support a school in anyway "we" includes every state tax paying member of said state. This is hilarious on a galactic scale.
...I'm a taxpaying citizen of the great state of Ohio and there's no way in hell any Bucknut usage of the word "we" includes me. There's nothing hilarious about that thought at all, galactically or otherwise.
It pisses me off when I see young kids in state gear. Don't they know they need to go to school there for at least two semesters before they can be real fans? That's the rule right?
They need to attack a group of nerdy kids and before they can be real Staee fans. Until then, they're just little poseurs.
Also, they must have an older, smarter, more successful brother.
Well played my friend.
Wow. What did I just watch?
I am a Michigan alum, but the more fans the merrier, I say. We have great teams with great traditions and many people grew up watching and learning about them who ultimately went to school elsewhere. Why should they not have the similar passion about it? As others said, this is jealousy over the depth and size of Michigan's fanbase as well as the reach of its brand. It also seems to be an admission that, in the end, they have no real argument, only a stilted concept of the "non-alum fan" that they invented and then railed against.
It's a good thing when the ignorant state fans (99% of them) pull the "did you go there?" card.
That's usually their defense mechanism they use when Michigan beats them and they have nothing left. Like last year. When Michigan beat them in pretty much every single varsity sport. It was domination.
It was never a dream of mine to attend school at Michigan. Yeah, it would be kind of neat. But I rather not drown myself in financial debt right off the bat to start my life.
My dream has been to move to Ann Arbor or a border city, have season tickets to football and hockey, get married and have a kid and push them so they could maybe go to Michigan.
Was literally raised a fan and there's an old VHS tape of me running around cheering as a 5 year old in my little #32 jersey when Michigan won the 2000 Orange Bowl in OT.
I don't even understand why this is a topic on this board. Who gives a flying fuck where someone went to school? That isn't any of your business to begin with. According to their logic, I can't be a Red Wings fan because I have no formal affiliation with the organization.
Solid logic sparty. Don't blame others because no one gives two shits about you that is not an alum or doesn't live in the State of Michigan.
t's a good thing when the ignorant state fans (99% of them) pull the "did you go there?" card. That's usually their defense mechanism they use when Michigan beats them and they have nothing left
I find it quite hypocritical that if you're a non-UofM alum, and Michigan beats MSU, they'll pull out that card all the time and act like you don't have any bragging rights. And then if Micigan loses to MSU, suddenly you are a true Michigan fan that will get crap and it doesn't matter if you want to Michigan or not?
I don't know why people would question (or care about) a person's reason for school fandom. People can develop an emotional attachment to a school regardless of whether they attended - I was a huge UM fan when I was 11 years old and definitely had a "we" attitude.
Conversely, attending a school doesn't make a person a fan. My wife and I are both UM alums. I'm fanatic, but my wife doesn't care at all about UM sports, only to the extent it affects my moods on Saturdays.
My fiancé is an M3 at Michigan's Medical School, I think that gets me a few points in this fight.
Fandom is fandom, there is no need to justify and there are no rules
However, I'm all for this: if Sparty feels that way, then they should forbid non-alums for cheering for their team. Michigan coaches and players (and alums) should simultaneously make it clear that they welcome all fans.
Not everyone gets to go to college, you know.
Because I like reading the different stories about how people became M fans. No one needs to justify - what the hell business is it of theirs -, but the stories are always a great read.
As a Canadian there was no way I could afford tuition to Michigan. The first chance I got I made donations to the athletic programs I follow and the marching band, plus the 500 donation to get on season ticket list. All in all I gave the school I love more than anything over a grand in donations and two season tickets for hockey and football. Does this count?
Most of the sparty friends I have never went there, their parents did. Some of my friends go there or did, but green gear is sold at Wal-Mart too. Have no idea where this idea that all sparty fans graduated from MSU came from. It's a very puerile argument, especially to direct it at the school with the largest alumni base in the world.
In the state of Alabama, Auburn fans say the same thing about Alabama. I know in South Carolina, Clemson fans say that. Maybe it is just a second school or ag school thing.
Actually MSU has strict guidelines if you want to cheer for Sparty and are not an alum.
When I signed up for season tickets a couple years back, they said they were sending someone out the next day to verify that I actually graduated from State.
I thought I was screwed since I didn't actually go to school there.
So....I put this out in front of my house....and guess what?
He approved me on the spot! No questions asked!
I needed a good laugh.
People are free to like any team in any sport for any reason
UM grads have no reason to be annoyed that their brand is popular, and MSU grads just have to live with the fact that theirs is not...
It was taxes that built the Big House so that the whole state couod enjoy. Everyone needs to be proud of their accomplishments and their status, but no need to try to dissect your in rival's fan base. Stop being a dbag and go change the world with your degree and leave the hd sports and beer to me and my ne'r do well brethern. I am kidding. My advice: Just let people decide who they like to root for and stop being so butt hurt.
My husband and I graduated from UM-Dearborn. So, we are not considered real UM alumni by most people. We don't care. We loved UM-D and we love AA's teams :)
I've always been a Wolverine fan, of the school and the teams. I grew up a Michigan fan and don't understand changing just because I went somewhere else.
I'm sure an educational connection would be great but I can't imagine that making me more of a fanatic.
Didn't our ancestors defeat the French at Appomattox Courthouse, invent the moon, and sire Angelina Jolie so that we could CHOOSE whom to root for? Does this guy want our sports choices forced on us TALIBAN-style? Because to him I say, why don't you go live in Cuba with Osama bin Laden and Ho Chi Minh?! I, for one, choose the Stars and Stripes!
No fanbase other than State's cares about this... can you imagine a Texas or Alabama alum making that video? It's just the proof that State is a second rate team.
Never heard Alabama fans say that but Auburn fans do. It is, in my opinion, a second school phenomenon.
I've donated enough money to the Michigan athletic department that I feel like I deserve the right to say "we." Like a lot of you I've got a sweet sticker on my car that says I'm a donor dammit. And if I have to follow the booster rules with recruits then I'm a we. Haha
Is he a homosexual?
I hope you have a son who becomes a big muscular football player with a deep voice who turns out to be gay so you can realise how wrong you are.
If you're reply to this is "omg political correctness is ruining america even though I just stereotyped and offended gay people" than GTFO.
...until the genital stimulation test results come back.
Seriousy, though, who cares if he is?
I was born in Grand Rapids, been a Michigan fan all my life, but couldn't afford the out of state tuition after my family moved. If I'm a sidewalk, Walmart, or whatever other stupid name they have for people like me, them I'm proud to be one.
As long as we're throwing out insults let me thank you for dispelling the rumor that every time a Sparty gets too excited they burn a couch. Good thing too becasue that pleather sofa would have gone up like napalm.
Now that that's out of the way... I didn't go to Michigan, I went to Indiana. And while I do agree with the video statement that the College you attend does remain a part of you. I LOVE Bloomington, and I always will. What he is missing is that most of us have 18+ years of fandom before we get to our chosen school. During those 18+years for me are games with my Dad and Grandfather, games and moments that I relive in my head countless times during each season. Those are the things that have cemented my love for Michigan, not a diploma.
I'm embarrassed to say that after 32 years, a Michigan football win still improves the quality of my weekend. While a loss usually means a sports cool off period unitl at least monday afternoon. If I had waited until getting to college to fully develop into a fan as "The Social Media Pessimist" suggests, there is no way that that my rational mind would have let me fall this deep. My hatred for Notre Dame, disgust for Sparty and blind rage for OSU and everything associated with that program is INSANE! I totally understand that, and I can't wait to pass that on to my one year old son. And if I do my job correctly he'll have a fire that burns in him for Michigan regardless of where he chooses to attend college, as long as it isn't MSU, Purdue, Notre Dame or Ohio State.
So can people whose mailing addresses aren't Detroit be fans of the Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, Pistons? You can be a fan of whatever team you want to be. Lamest argument in all of sports!
STOP LIKING THINGS I DON'T LIKE
represents more than a degree. I consider some of my non-alumni friends to be more "real" fans of M than some of my fellow alumni.
I look at it this way: I went to Michigan. I have a Michigan degree. (And, yes, RCMB trolls, from the Ann Arbor campus.)
My connection to Michigan is different than the non-alum who only identifies with the Block M and sports and probably couldn't pick the Union out of a lineup of gothic collegiate buildings if they tried. And it pisses me off when non-alums try to pass it off like "I'm out of state!" or "not everyone could get in!" or "my parents went there!" The bottom line is, sorry, you didn't.
My Michigan degree takes me places. It has direct ramifications on my life. It's more than your sports fandom. Michigan Athletics are great, but the University is greater. Michigan isn't for everyone, I understand that. But if Michigan means that much to you, you probably could have tried to do it. Until then, don't try to act like alums shouldn't be proud that we did, try to pass it off like we didn't sacrifice something to do it, or that there's some degree of "real fan" credibility that can make up for it.
If that makes me elitist, fine. But the fact remains that people who actually attended the university are not the same as those who didn't. That's just how it is. Don't get me wrong, having a degree doesn't automatically make you a better fan. But it's not just about sports.
You're certainly entitled to be an elitist, that's your perogative, but this just seems disingenuous considering everything else you just wrote. You do probably think you're a better fan, which is fine if you think that way I suppose.
Don't get me wrong, having a degree doesn't automatically make you a better fan.
...anyone is trying to take the achievement of your degree from you. Even more, your post makes me wish we didn't root for the same team. We are indeed different.
It does make you an elitist, but I'm cool with that. You had the resources, smarts, drive, luck, or whatever that got you there and that's awesome. I am "just a fan" and that's the way it will always be until one of my kids hopefully goes there and I can find a way to make it happen and I am ok with that too. I am not a big fan of any non player saying "we" anyway, but I especially try and avoid it.
I haven't read on this post the non alums writing to minimize those who have earned degrees from UM. Nobody here is telling to you take your degree and shut up. The non alums are giving experiential evidence of why, they too, can align with UM albeit a bit more vicariously than you.
connectiont to UM football without having attended the university. I, for one, grew up watching Michigan football with my father. For me, Michigan football will always be associated with him. So you are a fool when you say that non-alums cannot have deep connections with Michigan football. They can and do.
Family comes before all--at least for well-adjusted people it does--and UM football has been a passion my family has shared for decades. My grandfather, who grew up a ND fan(as an Italian Catholic) was buried in a Michigan sweater.
As it is, I, my uncle, and step-mother work at UM. My aunt graduated from UM as my dad went to UM for a year before I was born. I was born in UM hospital and have lived around Ann Arbor my entire life. Michigan has had a presence in my life for as long as I can remember.
You could stand to get out more, Bando. You seem to live in a bubble completely ignorant of others experiences.
There's a very small part of me--a part I don't have a lot of respect for, truth be told, but it's in there--that thinks that you can't really be a Michigan fan unless you've lived in Ohio. And not Toledo, but the deep red part of Ohio, someplace like Newark or Springfield maybe, where every person you have met in your entire life was a Buckeye fan, where 3/4 of the teachers in your high school went to OSU, where there isn't a single person in your entire fucking world that isn't going to make your life miserable for the next 364 days if Michigan loses to Ohio. Where there's never any temptation to say "we" because, well, because it's just you.
My connection to Michigan is different too (I suppose everyone's is); it's certainly different from any alum's. For that tiny part of me, Brady Hoke might be the only person I share my fandom with.
I know it's wrong, of course. But there it is.
Maybe some of the people who identify with the block M and the football team couldn't give two shits about how much more there is to the university? Maybe they don't need to have had the experience of standing near a third string running back in Angell Hall or having taken a class with Jake Butt. Maybe to them the football games on fall saturdays are enough and they didn't need to go into debt or put themselves through hell trying desperately to get the full Michigan experience?
And nobody gives a shit about your degree or how hard you worked for it, get off the cross.
It is funny that so many people claim this thread/topic is dumb, then feel the need to detail the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon that prove they deserve to be considered a super-duper Michigan fan.
I was an out of state student and my parents and I had to scrape to afford the airfare to get me to campus for orientation, not to mention getting to graduation. I don't buy or have any sympathy for the countless sob stories as to why people couldn't get in and/or attend the University of Michigan. If you are qualified and broke, the school (or any school for that matter) will make sure you can attend. If you aren't qualified (especially if you live in Michigan) then maybe you could have made better choices in high school. If you are a success later in life and can donate or buy tickets for the teams you like, I don't think anyone begrudges your success or resents your presence.
And I was at basketball games when we started the year 0-6. And I was there the same year when we started winning games and you couldn't get a seat for the MSU game. Needless to say there was a palpable difference in fan presence. The number of people with "real fan" credibility at Michigan (or any other school with any degree of athletic success) is ridiculously low.
Michigan football has a bunch of non-alum fans because Michigan football wins most of the games they play, and has done so for over 100 years. Northwestern football has almost no non-alum fans because they sucked for a long time. Nobody goes around justifying why they couldn't get into NU or explaining how their uncle's podiatrist is a big donor or bitching about the high cost of colleges that are actually good (which turns out to be about the same as the cost of colleges that aren't any good).
and there were non-alums there when the bball team was 0-6 and alums who only started caring once we beat Duke. It's too broad a bat to beat anyone with. And it's clearly a tiny minority of our fanbase who actually care... unsurprisingly the ones who always have a superiority complex
Grew up in Missouri, not one family member went to college. Watched Harbaugh, Desmond (my favorite college player ever) Elvis, Tyrone, Timmy B, and many others any chance I got on Saturday. Always had Michigan gear. Went to K-State, love my alma mater, but was a Michigan fan long before I even considered attending KSU. Graduated and attended my first game at the Big House soon after. I try and attend a game a year now and have for the last 5-6 years with no plans to stop. Had my favorite game experience ever at Under the Lights 1 with my wife. Still watch, support, and go to KSU games, but UM has been my team forever and my dream is for my kid or kids to go there one day. Screw anyone that thinks this is wrong or stupid.
Since i watched Rick Leach and the Wolverines take on the Selmon brothers and OU in the 1975 Orange Bowl.
I watched the video and I was amused. I trust he doesn't follow any pro teams bc by his logic, you'd have had to have actually played the game or for that team to cheer.
I wanted to go to Michigan but there was no way I'd have BEEN admitted. Instead I was offered a scholly to play baseball at MSU after my soph year at GRJC. Sparty was in my top three and Michigan didn't recruit JUCO's. So, I went down south. It wasn't bc of Sparty, to this day I wonder if it would have changed my allegiance if I'd have gone green.
However, there are plenty of people who bring their kids to games who may never go to the schools but have an affinity towards them. Is he saying those not yet enrolled in higher ed shouldn't be there as well?
Saturday, please hurry
The pro sports argument is a red herring. By nature, pro sports are a private enterprise. You're watching someone do a job they're paid for. There's no parallel to the college campus, or the Econ 101 class with the entire O-line squeezed into the row behind you, or paying tuition to an institution that sponsors the team. It's not even the same thing at all.
It was no diversionary tactic.
I echo the reply to your previous comment one poster wrote.
We are different, indeed.
The experience makes it more authentic, got it.
what percentage of the student body do you imagine have a class with a single football player? That's not an experience most alums have, let alone the entire o-line.
When do we get to the part where you denigrate us normal alums for not being as close to the team as you bandos were, btw?
Here we go again. This is such a non-story. You don't need to be a graduate of a university to be a sports fan of it. Christ, is that so hard to understand?
If you are born and raised in Michigan like I was, you generally pick Michigan or Michigan State to root for as a youngster. A few freaks in SW Michigan may even pick Notre Dame.
I was hard core fan of Michigan all through middle school and high school. I didn't apply to Michigan. I went to Western because it was more affordable and a lot of my friends went there. But there passion for Michigan sports never left me.
I didn't go to U of M, my sister, brother in law, his two brothers and both his parents did. I was a fan of Michigan long before my sister went there, the reason was my Grandpa was a season ticket holder. My 1st game and love for the university started when I was 8 the first time I stepped foot in the Big House.
Now at the age of 32 and my grandpa long gone I am a season ticket holder, so I can be a fan of whoever I want.
I never lived in Detroit yet I'm a fan of the pistons, tigers, red wings and lions.
Well to be honest the real reason I picked to be a fan of U of M over MSU at the age 8 was, I liked cheering for a winning team!
being an Alum is the difference between being a Michigan Man and a Michigan Fan. Sure you can root for a school you didn't go to, if that wasn't the case college football wouldn't be nearly as popular. And with the videos high school point, of course people who didn't go to a high school root for it who do you think fills the stands? You seriously think all those people are alumi and never moved from their old town or comeback for every home game? Heck no, those people are students, parents, and local fans just like in college. The only difference is colleges get more media coverag, have more recognition and people have much more loyalty towards them. The idea that you can't be a fan because you didn't go to a school is ridiculous. Alumi get a more nostalgic feeling watching games probably and are much more likely to be closer and more involved with the school but you don't have to earn the right to be a fan because that's what a fan is, someone who likes something.
Not trying to be argumentative and I agree with everything you said, except I didn't go to Michigan, nor have I ever lived there, and I'll be damned if I'm not a Michigan Man. Honestly this is probably hard for someone who did live there/go there to understand, and I totally ger that. But I live and breathe Michigan sports. Just wanted to throw in my .02 - thanks.
You do realize Brady Hoke isn't an Alum, nor was Bo. But they are "Michigan Men"
Just to let you know, I wasn't trying to be a dick, every person is entitled to his/her opinions. I just thought I would comment on you opinion that only Alum are allowed to be "Michigan Men"
To M for medical school, and we will always be die-hard fans, even though I will be on an athletic scholly at a D1 school, M will always come first for everything except my sport and basketball.
conversation of the year
the "DOES UM-FLINT COUNT" argument is worse but thankfully only comes up once a year unlike this bye week staple.
I understand why they feel the need to harp on this, but I don't understand why we bring it to this board. Not one stadium in America, including MSU's, would be filled every Saturday with alumni only. None. Look at Ohio. As John Stewart pointed out, it seems like they are required by law to have 5 red hooded sweatshirts each. Do the Sparty fans think they all went to OSU? Nope. Sparty fans do this to irritate us and we let them. I did not go to UM. Would I have liked to? Who knows. I don't really think about it. I assure you, my University of Charleston education has suited me just fine. By the way, my brother is a huge MSU fan. Did he go to MSU? No he did not.
.. always bums me out because I didn't go to Michigan (I went to Siena Heights University before they added a football program) and I feel like somehow I have to justify myself. Why? So someone else can feel better about themselves?
No you don't. Just tell them to fuck off and move on with your fanhood.
But I may get my grad degree from there if I ever feel I can handle the debt of tuition for the executive MBA. I have lived in Michigan all my life and my grand parents were alumni thus I was raised by Michigan fans to only become a Michigan fan every since I knew what a football was. Not just a fan of Michigan football but a fan of the school...die hard Michigan through and through! I am proud of that regardless of how it looks to Sparty or anyone else for that matter. Go Blue Beat MSU.
So Brady Hoke, Bo and Yost are not Michigan Men, because they are not Alums?
If you represent the popular opinion of your peers, fear not, I shall have no such disillusions. I'd rather not be associated with the likes of you.
Jesus Christ, I don't need a Michigan degree to look at his MGoHandle and come to the reasonable conclusion that he is a troll.
Have no delusions that mgosux bites pillows and burns couches. Sometimes at the same time.
With a rubber penis
Didn't you all know? MSU fills Spartan Stadium with 77k Alums every home game.
I reluctantly read some of the YouTube comments and noticed the creator of the video involved himself in the conversation. A couple of points of amusement:
1. He prefaced the video with "I know this is going to piss people off". He then engaged in conversation by being pissed off at presumed pissed off people. I believe he is just channeling his inner Drew Sharp; looking for page hits by taking the contrarian view on any anything against Michigan.
2. He claims to "work for a fairly large publication in Chicago".
Dude, you work for fucking RedEye and you don't even write for them. How dare you call yourself a journalist when you work for an entertainment newspaper where 90% of the content centers around Public Transportation closures, drink deals on every day of the week and why your homosexual friend in Chicago can't find a roommate.
...and yes I'm damn proud to be a Walmart Wolverine.
I've been cheering on Michigan since...we'll...ever. It's been a family school (also dating an alum), but I never applied as I knew I wanted a small liberal arts school. I continued to cheer on michigan throughout college as well...cause ya know...DIII Football.
I don't need some asshat telling me I can't root on my favorite team. No, I didn't go to Michigan, but at this point I'm not sure it matters.
I'll never have the same connection as an alum, I get that. But damnit if someone'll tell me if I can't root for my favorite team!
Its funny that puke green makes fun of fans who are non michigan alums, because i have encountered plenty of sluts and morans who also wear/are state fans because they think state is a "cool" university even if though they never went there.. Some dont even know where the school is even located lol
This has always been an interesting topic to me, because I did not attend the university and am not even from Michigan, but have been a fan as long as I can remember (and can't imagine being a bigger fan even if I had attended). In my experience, those who have given me grief for "choosing" to be a Michigan fan (a) are not Michigan fans or (b) think it's just a bandwagon thing.
The truth is I didn't "choose" to be a Michigan fan. While there are plenty of reasons I can give for why I love Michigan, in the end, it's like trying to explain (as a non-scientist) why the sky is blue. It just is, and I just am. There is only one team that I want to win no matter who they play. There is only one team I want to watch no matter who they play. That has been true in good and bad seasons, and I've experienced plenty of both. It may not be rational, but that's part of being a fan.
Thankfully, it's getting to the point where most everyone I associate with knows I'm a fan and so I don't have to try and explain it anymore. Most new acquaintances see the Michigan flag flying on my house and my kids wearing Michigan t-shirts and just assume I went there. I don't correct them.
Sure, I'll bite. I didn't go to U of M, so by Sparty standards, and some of my fellow U of M fans standards, I'm not a true fan; A Walmart Wolverine, if you will. Here's my U of M association resume:
I was born at U of M hospital to two U of M alumni parents. I've lived in Ann Arbor all but 5 years of my life. As a kid, I was a ballboy for the U of M womens bball team for 2 years (with Greg Mattison's daughter) and for the men's team for 1 year (during the 2nd yr of the fab five). I worked for U of M for 3 years, am a season ticket holder for basketball and get my football tickets from (and sit with) a former captain of a rose bowl winning Michigan team. More importantly than all that, I'm simply a Wolverine fan.
So, why does a degree mean more than all that? Stupid Sparty logic.
I grew up a Michigan fan but circumstances led me to the school across Washtenaw. I had intentions of transferring to Michigan but that never happened. I liked going to EMU. I still follow Michigan and have my trusty M-hat but I take pictures at EMU sporting events (on the field no less). Does that make me a Walmart Wolverine? Hell, I don't even shop at Walmart.
Every major university in the school has their non-alumni and student alumni...and so what?
ridiculous - completely.
Likewise I believe ALL the fans of Alabama and Auburn attended one or the other school... yep!
Michigan state fans are just jealous because they don't have many fans who didn't attend MSU, so they always want to criticize those Michigan fans that didn't go to the school. Many times I've sat in the stands and the first question most pose to Michigan fans is, "did you even go to Michigan?". The reality is those MSU fans wouldn't be MSU fans if they didn't attend the school, where as Michigan fans are Michigan fans regardless.
The Michigan brand is as successful as it is because if it's die-hard fans, most of which didn't attend Michigan. Michigan State's fans are its current and former students and maybe their family and some faculty.
So here's a question for the guy: What about people who served in the Army, Navy or Air Force but didn't attend one of the academies, are they okay to root for their respective academy?
Like I said above...I think this is silly.
That is a great question. I know I always want Navy to win and I have never seen the academy with my own eyes. I was active duty (Team 8, SDV Team 1) and would have stayed past my 9 years if not for a little mishap in Afghanistan.
I'm a Navy fan myself. My dad, my uncle and both my grandpas were in the Navy. I would have gone into the Navy myself had I decided to enlist. So does that make me a Walmart Midshipman? :)
That is term I will start to use.
I was enlisted my entire military career.
I am a WalMart Wolverine
I grew up a Michigan fan....but I was the first person in my family to even go to college. I went to UM-Dearborn (because I went on a full scholorship for grades)...and I went there again for my engineering masters....then I went there again for my MBA. I am not embarrased about that.
Don't worry...I have no illusion that I am an Ann Arbor grad and I don't tell people that I am. Ann Arbor grads let me know that I am not a "real wolverine" whenever they get the chance.
I am a huge Michigan fan, heck, my two year old's room is Michigan-themed...he went as a "Michigan Football guy" as he calls it, for Halloween. He can sing Hail to the Victors.
If any Ann Arbor grad does not like that, or feels like I don't deserve to root for their team....then they have the right to that opinion.
I am extremely happy with my 3 degrees from UM-D and the life that they have helped make for me and my family. I loved my college experience. I played a sport, rented a house with some buddies and we had a great time...including the season football tickets...which I know some wolverines get heartburn over. Hey...two of my friends went to UM-Dearborn and played in the Marching Band....full field members of the band that traveled to bowl games and everything.
If that means that I am forever branded as a Walmart Wolverine....I am ok with that. Maybe I will right that wrong with my kids going to AA.....but man....if they turn out to be the kind of people like some of the AA grad posters I have seen on here....maybe not.
UM-D is family!
if non-alums must be branded as Wal-Mart, then branch campus alums get to be at least H&M Wolverines.
I always wondered why Walmart Wolverines was supposed to be insulting. You're making fun of us for having a huge national following? Our university if so successful that we have people who didn't even attend who badly want to be part of the fanbase? Never understood the criticism.
I should've turned down that athletic scholarship to my school (still better than MSU), and forgone four years of varsity Division One athletics, to attend the school in my hometown, a mile from my parents, and hang out doing all the same stuff I did in High School.
Nah, I'll leave and go see a bit of the world and get out of Ann Arbor.
On a serious note as a resident of Detroit, I expect that I will not see any Red Wings/Tigers/Pistons/Lions gear when I am in East Lansing this weekend.
Go to a place like Lincoln, NE. NE football is all they have and just about everyone there is a fan...going to the University probably makes you a god there, but it is not the only path to fandom.
Well, Sonny Boy, let me tell you a story. Once upon a time, just about everyone in the state of Michigan was a fan of both UM and MSU. I was myself.
Everyone had a favorite when the two played, but most rooted for Michigan - except for folks with a very direct connection to MSU. Or they might decide who to cheer based on who might have the most potential to have a great season (which was usually Michigan).
Not sure when or why it happened, but at some point it started to become a nasty, death to the other guy, us or them, type of mentality. For my part, that originated with State fans. They gradually became very nasty, to the point of wishing ill will and injury on Michigan players.
They despise Michigan, and for that, I now despise State. I stop short of wishing harm, but my preference is for them to go oh and whatever every year.
I really miss the old way, but I fear it's gone forever.
The advent of internet boards, boots, etc started the decline. When people could start anonymously spewing their hate without fear of repercussion. I don't dislike MSU the university it is the insufferable loudmouth portion of their fan base I can't stand.
*Blogs, not boots. Damn phone.
Missed this last night due to T or T. It is silly. It is an old Spartan talking point, but is exposed as BS if even one of nearly 80k fans in Spartan Stadium isn't an alum. By that way of thinking, the vast majority of ND/ USC/FSU/Alabama/etc. football and Duke/UNC/G-town hoops fans are all frauds. Does one need to flash one's diploma for entry in to Spartan Stadium?
Ridiculous. The person who made the video should get out more.
Try those arguments in a state where there is one team for everyone to root for. You think Nebraska runs some kind of alumni litmus test before you can buy tickets or cheer for the team? Which Nebraska pro team would those non-alums be rooting for, again?
Growing up my uncle always watched UM football. I started watching during the Grbac,Howard and Alexander years. I was hooked.
I would be one of those fans who have never had a student I.D. from the only great school in the Staee of Michigan. I'm also careful not to refer to any team I'm not a part of as we. I feel it's an insult to the players, past and present. It's an insult to the students, I don't know the whole story, what it's like to go through the experience of college.
Lil Sparty Firecrotch isn't going to tell me I can't be a fan of my favorite team, even if I didn't go there.