No Talent
We can't stop anyone on D because of lack of talent on that side of the ball. So say rich needs to get fired or whatever the hell every one else wants to say but YOU COULD FREAKING BRING BO BACK FROM THE DEAD FIELDING YOST BEAR BRYANT and everyother freaking great coach and they couldn't do shit with this TALENT LESS DEFENSE. BYE iam done now my frustrations have come full circle
November 7th, 2009 at 4:04 PM ^
Please leave, because we have a lot of talent. It is just not being used and developed well.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:09 PM ^
Apparently this isn't a very popular opinion but I agree 100%. Yes, we have had very high attrition but that is ON THE COACHES! And the players who have stayed have regressed. You can't tell me that if Obi Ezeh or Jonas Mouton went to Penn St. they wouldn't be absolute terrors right now.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:12 PM ^
What? They have mental issues with the game. Mouton went to the other linebacker spot when he should have covered the receiver. The linebackers have been horrible.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:27 PM ^
Brian posts these things here called UFRs... They're well-done, enlightening, etc. Read them.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:33 PM ^
I read them every week, man. My point is that it is the coaches fault that Obi Ezeh has regressed like he has. He should be riding the bench with the way he has been playing but he has been playing bad partially because he has bad position coaching.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
Do you watch the games too? He is "riding the bench".
November 7th, 2009 at 5:23 PM ^
I know he is dude - and I said that he should be with the way he is playing. I'm not saying that he should be in the game with the way he's been playing - I'm saying if we had better coaching he would be playing better and would deserve to be on the field.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:33 PM ^
is that they are reacting wrong to plays. Coaches are not telling them to run themselves out of position. Ever coach in America tells their LBs that if your in man coverage and the TE release YOU FOLLOW them and not bite on a play fake. Or during a simple off tackle run you attack the hole instead of waiting in the hole and getting taken out by a blocker.
November 8th, 2009 at 2:13 AM ^
Did you watch Obi play in 2007 when he was a RS Frosh for Ron English's D? He was a Freshman All-American, but it was more a result of just being a Frosh MLB at M then doing anything. He has never demonstrated much of the mental acuity needed for great line-backing. Maybe because he's really a goddamn fullback.
November 8th, 2009 at 10:51 AM ^
Can we knock off this nonsense about Ezeh "really being a fullback"? He's been playing linebacker for four years at Michigan, and for all we know, he could have been a fullback AND linebacker when he was in high school.
High school players switch positions ALL THE TIME when they enter college. Ezeh's failures at LB have nothing to do with the fact that he was a fullback when he was 17 years old. He's not good, but stop trying to explain it away with irrelevant points.
Brandon Graham was a linebacker in high school. He seems to be doing fine for himself at DE.
Steve Breaston was a quarterback in high school. Now he's in the NFL playing WR.
Brian Urlacher played every position under the sun in high school and in college, and he's been the Defensive MVP in the NFL at middle linebacker.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:26 PM ^
I think it's very relevant that Ezeh was recruited as a FB. He may have played LB in high school, but that wasn't what he was nominally recruited to Michigan for. In fact, I find it kind of unbelievable that none of our current starting LBs were recruited as Linebackers. That more than anything else is indicative of the Decimated Defense we have talked so much about.
November 8th, 2009 at 7:11 PM ^
Brandon Graham was recruited as a MIKE. He's playing DE.
Ryan Van Bergen was recruited as a DE. He's playing DT.
The defensive line is arguably our best unit, and yet 2/3 of the players are "out of position." On top of that, Craig Roh was recruited as a DE and is playing OLB, and Steve Brown was recruited as a safety and is playing SAM.
But all of those guys are playing pretty well at their adopted positions, aren't they?
And for the record, the coaches knew Mouton was going to be a linebacker.
High school positions don't mean as much as you think they do. High school coaches put their athletes at the positions that will be their biggest advantage. That's why you get guys like TJ Duckett and Jatashun Beachum playing quarterback and guys like Charles Woodson playing running back and free safety.
November 8th, 2009 at 11:45 PM ^
So we moved BG from Mike to DE, RVB from DE to DT, Stevie Brown from S to SAM and who to Safety?
When you funnel all of your guys up a position because you cannot recruit a position (in this case for Michigan that position was DE) that is a fundamental recruiting problem.
IMO the biggest problem that Michigan had under the Lloyd Carr era was never being able to recruit a top flight DE. They always ended up moving LBs to the position and then never recruiting more linebackers to cover their moves, which meant safeties moving to linebacker which meant that we had no quality safeties.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:36 PM ^
so Ezeh and Mouton have been coached to overrun plays, misread plays, and not tackle?
November 8th, 2009 at 4:17 AM ^
would start for Penn State? I'm going to assume you're concussed, meth-addled, or Phineas Gage.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:11 PM ^
If by talent, you mean Mike Williams being good at Dance Dance Revolution or Obi Ezeh being able to use a pogo stick, then yes, we have tons of talent.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:29 PM ^
Yeah, I am sure all the mistakes they have made on the field have nothing to do with coaching - nothing to do with preparation, practicing for Purdue, nothing like that. Blaming just the players is idiotic.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
i bet they just sat around all week eating pizza and watching gossip girls. how the hell is Jordan Kovacs supposed to know that running toward the line when youre 30 yards deep and letting a wr behind you for a wide open td is a bad idea if nobody tells him??!!?!?!
November 7th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
Right....because you know better than he does right? You were there, could see all he could, know the play that was called, plays that were practiced, what the coaches told him to expect, right? I am going to take a stab in the dark here and say that Kovacs probably has more football ability than you do.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:38 PM ^
My post was in jest. It wasn't some deep insight into the problems that the defense is having. I'm not blaming the players alone. There is no doubt that many of the kids on defense have great physical talent, it is up to them and the coaches to develop the mental talent.
November 8th, 2009 at 6:33 PM ^
Totally underrated. Wish I had one.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:15 PM ^
We definitely do have some talent on defense, but you can't say we have an allstar group of defensive players that are just poorly coached. It's definitely a combo of those. I really don't think that our DBs are very talented other than Warren. It comes down to the fact that the players are having to make reads, and they make poor reads most of the time. Now, maybe that is a coaching problem, and maybe that is a player issue, but I really think that none of us know. There is no way for us to know that. The coaches are trying and the players are doing the same.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:22 PM ^
This has been going on for a long, long time. During Lloyd Carr's 13 years at Michigan, 9 of the 10 ALL-TIME worse defenses, points wise for the season, was under Carr. The two worse were in '05 and '07.
Ron English/Lloyd Carr and the debacle of Appalachian State and Oregon was the nadir of the LC years; but it continues to this day. We've had other DC's and a new HC, but still the same crappy trend of a bad defense getting worse. The constant has been bad performances and the players, not the coaches.
Teams are like ocean liners; they can't reverse course on a dime. Recruiting doesn't make its impact immediately; its going to take another year or two.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:35 PM ^
Just one example of our extended futility on D: we STILL don't know how to defend a mobile QB and it has been over 10 years since McNabb embarrassed us while at Syracuse.
Our Offense will need to score 45+ a game next year if we are to have any hope. That is A LOT of pressure.
November 7th, 2009 at 8:10 PM ^
well into the 80's. Ricky Foggy anyone?
November 7th, 2009 at 5:42 PM ^
Perhaps here would be a good place to rehash the idea that we currently have 69 of a possible 85 scholarship players. Still think we have a lot of talent?
November 8th, 2009 at 2:02 AM ^
Kovacs and Leach disagree completely.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:07 PM ^
It is little bit of both. There are definite talent issues but there are also some coaching/development issues.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:08 PM ^
When you're starting walkons in front of scholarship players it isn't because there is no talent. It's because nobody is developing them. Ezeh should NEVER see the bench and Mouton should be a beast with his physical skills.
Stars only represent potential. It's up to coaches to develop that potential and right now that isn't happening.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:10 PM ^
Spot on Steve. Adios Jay . . .
November 7th, 2009 at 4:10 PM ^
the coaching development was Carr and his staff fault with some most of the upper class-men. Read Mgospoons's diary about it, is unbelievable what has happened with the defense.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:30 PM ^
NOt to mention players like Brandon Smith, who is an absolute monster, who hasn't been developed to the point where he can play on defense yet. Its awful to see someone with his size and strength go to waste. It was nice to see JB Fitzgerald on the field for once. I'm not sure what he was ranked but I believe he was a highly thought of recruit. I'd like to see Kenny Demens play eventually too.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:35 PM ^
And that most sophomores don't see the field and if they do it is because there are no upperclassmen?
Yes the coaches haven't developed SOPHOMORES correctly... I feel like Charlie Brown.
UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
November 7th, 2009 at 4:40 PM ^
....he's got 4 stars on rivals? that means he do good at football. how comes the coaches keep tellsing them to be bad? stupid coaches
November 7th, 2009 at 5:01 PM ^
you say how it's not RR's fault that players can't tackle and basically state it's the players fault, but here you make excuses for them bc of their youth? Make up your damn mind.
November 7th, 2009 at 5:07 PM ^
And did a good ole Ctrl-F and searched for Tackle. And I couldn't find the word tackle anywhere in my post...
I'm not saying it's the players fault I'm saying that they are young and young players are inconsitent and don't know the scheme and aren't used to college football. How the hell is this refutable?
November 7th, 2009 at 9:51 PM ^
Have u watched a Michigan game this year. Ezeh is BAD. He should see a whole lot of the bench until he learns not to put himself in bad position.
Are we getting the best position coaching? Probably not.
Do we have the horses to run this race? Defiantly not.
To put alot of blame on coaches is stupid. They simply do not have big ten quality LBers/DBs atm. Now if in say another year or 2 we still don't have players competent enough to play, then its time to look hard at the coaches.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:08 PM ^
We are seeing on the field what Mosopogon wrote in his excellent diaries regarding defensive recruiting and retention. Poor recruiting/retention doesn't make its effect felt immediately - its felt when those players lost/not gotten would be juniors and seniors. That is now.
A good diary would be to compare this year's defense to last year's. I think last year's defense was better (its just that last year's offense was much, much worse).
November 7th, 2009 at 4:09 PM ^
I agree there's no talent, but it's the coaches job to protect a 24-10 lead and they flat out laid an egg.
And it may be too early to tell, but next year's defensive class doesn't look that great either.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:17 PM ^
It was completely his fault that he pitched that ball and didn't keep it for the loss. It was also his fault after that TD that he didn't catch the crazy onside kick.
Yes it was all RR's fault. His scheme was TERRIBLE!!!!
(It's sad when you're getting pos banged for this opinion)
November 7th, 2009 at 4:24 PM ^
receivers that were wide open in the second half. Old, slow fat fart.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
how this logic continues to work.
nevermind. its not worth it.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:58 PM ^
But they're young and they're.... young. Why was an option play called? Stupid call. How can we not put away these teams when we lead at half? If you asked any "elite" coach (which RR is touted to be) to protect a 2 touchdown lead at half i'm sure 90 percent of them could do it on a constant basis. I can understand if we were playing elite competition but we're not.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:44 PM ^
we run the spread OPTION. that's why an option play was called. its not just the QB CHOICE offense.
November 7th, 2009 at 9:55 PM ^
instead of actually spreading out defenses and making them play in space, we should do the same play over and over and over and over again? TO HELL WITH TRYING TO ADD DIMENSIONS TO AN OFFENSIVE ATTACK!
November 7th, 2009 at 5:38 PM ^
knowing our D is terrible. Going conservative to eat clock and limit the number of plays our terrible D has to face would have been the right choice here.
And I can't believe I am calling for Lloyd ball here.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:10 PM ^
OBi ezah was a fucking fb coming out of high school woolfook, michael williams and JT floyd were all low 3* kevin leach is a fucking walk on jordan kovacs is a ohh you guessed it walk on stevie brown and jonas mouton were high rated SAFTY'S who were too freaking big to play safty so they had to move to linebacker where mouton BLOWSSSS on and stevie brown is pretty good. But now I guess your going to tell me about warren and grahm w/e I am too mad so whatever
November 7th, 2009 at 4:12 PM ^
ya forgot periods and paragraph breaks and coherent thoughts.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:13 PM ^
I'm so confused. Are you disagreeing with yourself and arguing your own points are dumb?
I mean, if you are, that's kind of cool.
November 7th, 2009 at 4:19 PM ^
bluevoix you my sir are very smart