No More Enhanced UFRs

Submitted by WolverineBlue on

For the past season and a third, I have been updating a web app that provides enhanced viewing of MGoBlog's Upon Further Review (UFR) reports. I have decided that the time has come to bring the updates to a close.

Last Friday's announcement post was downvoted by Thorin (of MGoVideo fame), who also followed up with a snarky comment. Thorin is the one MGoUser I would least want to piss off, since the app's linked video feature is entirely dependent on content from MGoVideo. He probably did me a favor by forcing me to re-evaluate why I am continuing to work on this when it has become a burden that takes precious time away from more pressing priorities.

I must also admit that I have been foolish in wasting even more time recently on further development of the app. My original grand vision for the project was to build not just a viewer, but a powerful UFR creator/editor. I added many of those editing features and was intending to test them during the bye week by sponsoring a community-generated UFR of the 2012 Sugar Bowl game. That exercise is now rendered pointless.

Ultimately, the true stake through the heart is the thorny issue regarding copyright ownership of the video clips. This issue threatens to pull the rug out from under the content at a moment's notice and I realized early on that it would prevent the project from ever evolving into any form of viable long-term offering. It has also prevented the owner of the blog that inspired the project from supporting or even publicly acknowledging the existence of the viewer. So I think it is time to wrap things up and say thanks to those who have voiced support in the past and I apologize to anyone who was hoping to use the viewer for future games. I will leave the website up indefinitely, but will not be updating content for future games.

Wolverine Devotee

October 3rd, 2012 at 5:17 PM ^

Thorin seems to be on his period as of late or something. Not only in this instance, but when I posted the highlights of the 1999 game against syracuse he had this comment-

WHY? You obviously have some disease that makes you want to highlight the 2 or 3 games in the last 30 years that WH hasn't already done. Get that checked out.

I see posting highlights of old games as a positive. It lets people relive memories and it educates the younger or average fan who maybe didn't see that game. I try to complete seasons of Michigan Football on YouTube. I put up games WH doesn't have up.

If anything I benefit the MGoYouTubers because I'm saving each individual person by shelling out $18 a DVD or VHS copy of these older games. And I'm not even close to the progress I want in this. I'm not even in knee-deep yet on this project.

Thorin

October 3rd, 2012 at 8:58 PM ^

I'm not saying Wolverine Historian is the only person who can do highlight videos. In fact, I'm eventually going to import his videos into the mgovideo database, but introducing highlights of the 1999 Syracuse game by saying that you've been looking for the game for years is absurd and obviously untrue. Sorry if calling him out hurt his feelings or whatever, but if you want a game, you go to Art Vuolo and buy it (SOMEBODY SHOULD REPORT HIM TO THE UNIVERSITY!!!1). I'm assuming that's what he did and the reason why he chose that game is because WH doesn't buy games and hadn't done that one yet.

Wolverine Devotee

October 4th, 2012 at 8:32 AM ^

I have been looking for it for years. You don't know me. That and the 1998 EMU game, 1986 ND game are the big three I'm searching for.

I do buy Art's videos (See 2004 vs SDSU, another one coming soon). I'm making quite an investment in this project. 

 

bdsisme

October 3rd, 2012 at 5:49 PM ^

Wow, total dick move by Thorin.  I value your enhanced UFR's and didn't mind that you posted the weekly updates to the board one bit.  So what if your threads didn't generate much discussion?  

That said, if you still want to do the enhanced UFRs but are now turned off to posting the updates on the board, just post twitter updates and I'll be the first to follow you!

gajensen

October 3rd, 2012 at 6:48 PM ^

Well, Thorin/MGoVideo has earned an unsub from youtube and an unfollow from twitter.  Can't stand by and allow pots to call kettles black.

triangle_M

October 3rd, 2012 at 11:30 PM ^

I don't think the hate here is warranted.  I just don't.  I think you provide a valuable service that I most certainly take advantage of.  If you look at your posts I try to upvote every one.  

Now, its okay to over-extend yourself occasionally - we've all done it, at one time or another.  Grownups forgive these things.   I've made some bad posts, but I don't have the time served that you do, so I can understand the investment.   I wouldn't try to fight this though, just take the lumps and keep doing what you do.  

What did Aristotle say?  The ideal man bears the accidents of life with dignity and grace, making the best of circumstances.  We can't all live that, but I hope you and the OP find the grace to continue your contributions, because ultimately, the community suffers the most from the gap in content if this ends poorly.

I look forward to more Thorin and enhanced UFR posts.  

cozy200

October 3rd, 2012 at 6:52 PM ^

Your time so we have nothing to say about how you use it. Even dickish comments don't have the right to sway you one way or another. About the AD revenue.. Nobody gives a shit. Its a free site.

Sopwith

October 3rd, 2012 at 8:37 PM ^

While it's certainly possible you'd be receiving a threatening letter at some point in the future, you have a fairly compelling defense under the "transformative use" doctrine, a niche of the more well known "fair use" exception.  Unless someone thinks they could win an argument that your posting of enhanced UFRs (or Brian's un-enhanced UFR's, for that matter) could substitute for the original work (i.e., the original broadcast of the game), you're in a good defensive position.  Let me put it this way, if I were representing one side or the other in such a suit, I'd much rather have your cards than the copyright owner's.

Seth

October 3rd, 2012 at 9:38 PM ^

As many in blogging can tell you, the line isn't drawn on what's fair use or isn't, but what you can do before somebody with more lawyers tells you stop.

Fair use protects very little nowadays, because the copyright holders hire guns to threaten actions when they know they don't have a case, and we fold because we don't have the means to defend ourselves despite being 100% right. Until there's a class action against the worst offenders (Thought Equity Motion and The Ohio State University are two) who go around bullying small-time media in the name of controlling their brands, fair use might as well not even exist.

Thorin

October 4th, 2012 at 3:18 AM ^

I think you're being incredibly naive about what kind of a product Inside Michigan Football is. It's eerily similar to what military information operations/public affairs calls command information. They're not selling a 20 minute TV show; they're selling the program. Anything that increases the visibility of that information is, in the AD's view, good for the program.

kmd

October 4th, 2012 at 4:28 AM ^

http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/082212aab.html

They only offer access to the video on mgoblue.com if you pay for a subscription to MGoBlueTV. If what you were saying was true, they would make it publicly available. Not to mention the fact that the AD isn't the only party involved since it's being aired by Fox Sports Detroit. Fox Sports and their advertisers don't particularly care if people see the information, they mainly care that people are seeing the commercials, which I presume you're cutting out.

Thorin

October 4th, 2012 at 5:48 AM ^

I've tried but it's impossible to edit the commercials out of PNC Bank's Inside Michigan Football brought to you by Hyundai. My point was that the university profits more from the football program than mgoblue subscriptions which I assume are part of an agreement with Fox. People who watch it for free on YouTube may not be willing to pay for a subscription and even if they are, the amount of lost revenue is insignificant compared to the increased visibility of the product. Meanwhile, Fox is busy deleting NFL videos.

Thorin

October 3rd, 2012 at 10:51 PM ^

Thorin is the one MGoUser I would least want to piss off...

Then why draw attention to yourself (and your site [again]) by starting a Thorin is a dick thread? I've obviously pissed off seven or eight people but if I ever stop posting, I can promise that there won't be any grand announcement.

Thorin

October 4th, 2012 at 12:17 AM ^

Fair enough, the OP is not all about me, but the thread pretty much is. Just to be clear, there's nothing I can do to make him stop doing enhanced UFRs or posting links to them on the board. He's made his own decision to stop and given a reason/excuse that has nothing to do with me personally. It's not his fault that everyone used that as an excuse to attack me, but it was probably predictable.

justingoblue

October 4th, 2012 at 1:53 AM ^

Your first reply was at 6:34PM Eastern; there were sixteen replies at the time. Of those sixteen, nobody would say that more than nine had anything to do with you. Those nine:

regardless of the point Thorin made, he was unecessarily dickish

No kidding. Just looked at his comment you'd think he was the proprietor of MGoBlog and he didn't do the same thing. Talk about sense of entitlement.

Yeah, I thought he used to be a fairly decent and polite poster, and just in the past 6 months or so has really turned into a dick. Anyway, thanks for your effots WB.

Also, Thorin is a dick and this is the internet, don't worry about pissing him off.

I disagree strongly with Thorin about your posts being spam, though.

I understand if you don't want to take the time to do it anymore, but it's a shame that Thorin was such a dick to you about trying to do something cool, useful, and generous for the mgocommunity.

So, I suppose that Thorin doesn't post links to something he works on week in and week out? I'd take that hypocrisy with a grain of salt.

Thorin seems to be on his period as of late or something.

Wow, total dick move by Thorin

The majority of these posts are not attacking you. I count four responses to your post in the previous thread, three that are critical of your persona/work, and two that are personal attacks. If you count differently, please let me know. I'd love to see the twenty or thirty attacks before 6:34, though.

justingoblue

October 4th, 2012 at 3:57 AM ^

Saying you were being a dick in the pervious thread is not attacking you personally, as you originally claimed (I counted four, and considering your posts later in this thread, were those really inaccurate?). Further, if you read what I posted, I simply said I disagree. I was unaware that meant I was calling you a dick; thanks for informing me.

Thorin

October 4th, 2012 at 4:43 AM ^

I count 5 dicks, 1 sense of entitlement, 1 hypocrisy, 1 on his period and your post which I didn't take as an attack. Of those posts, I ignored the 5 people who called me a dick (because I mostly agree) and replied only to the one that called me a hypocrite. You also forgot to count the OP which was like "Thorin is my best friend ever, but he took a huge dump on me three days ago and no one noticed so I'm starting this thread to alert you to that and also let you know that I've decided not to contribute any effort to the community and it's all his fault. Oh and copyright something."

Seth

October 4th, 2012 at 4:43 PM ^

Plus 1 reply that's just someone bragging that I managed to find the 1 pixel of Reply button behind the Moderate button that covers it once you get threaded this far. #mousedexterityFTW

Also I find what you do so useful (seriously it has saved me so much time when trying doing Hokepoints/Museday columns) that I think you've earned the right to be a dick on occasion.

lhglrkwg

October 3rd, 2012 at 11:12 PM ^

It's amsuing to come to a thread where someone has been called out and then I wonder "Hm I wonder if they will post anything in here". Then I can scroll down and just see all the gray bars with "(Score:-1 Trolling)" and find said person. It's like a built-in filter function on mgoblog

ChopBlock

October 3rd, 2012 at 11:20 PM ^

Viewing a UFR in the viewer is an entirely different kind of flying altogether than just watching the every snap video. Thorin loses no money on me watching in the viewer, and in fact gains some.

Upshot: this really looks like a petty cat fight between two people who provide(d) really great and valuable content to the site. Here's to hoping they can reconcile.

stephenrjking

October 3rd, 2012 at 11:40 PM ^

Wow. I was going to comment, and then this bitterness volcano erupted all over the thread.



So I'm going to avoid the acrimony and just post my congratulations to the OP anyway. Your product was useful and well-executed. It was unique. And while it may not be worth the time or the personal hassles, it was good while it lasted and you should be proud of it. I hope you won't look back on your efforts with regret.



Move on, learn something from the experience, and do well in your next efforts. And forgive, too.

scooterf

October 4th, 2012 at 4:38 PM ^

Why is Thorin a mod here? I don't post much, and the first time I tried to blockquote I messed it up. I edited it, fixed a few, then went back to fix the rest and he locked it so I was unable to edit it. Just seemed so childish, but whatever. Now we're losing a very cool UFR feature because he's whiny.