In all honesty.....while I see where you are coming from the fact of the matter is at this point I think you can't assume anything about next year until you know what members of staff are coming back.
well that's just, like, your opinion, man
In all honesty.....while I see where you are coming from the fact of the matter is at this point I think you can't assume anything about next year until you know what members of staff are coming back.
Agree - too early to over think things. Lots of things can happen during the post bowl break.
Oh one thing, I know a lot of people are down right now and may not go to the OSU game because that has the portends of a real nightmare. So if you are a regular ticket holder and aren't going to the game, please sell or better yet, gift them to a UM fan. Someone who may not be able to go to the game or has never been to the stadium. Let them go and enjoy the fun aspects of visiting the stadium. If you are hosting Thanksgiving maybe some of the out-of-town crowd might want to check things out. PLEASE do not sell them to a OSU fan.
I'm a person who's never been to the Stadium! I'd love to go.
Are you going to bring your big red "We Love You, Coach Hoke" sign?
You can just use the one from a few years ago and cross out Rich Rod's name.
Hoke is 1-1 against tOSU...not so much to love yet.
We needed to hang on by the skin of our teeth to beat the worst OSU team in over a decade with a freshman QB at home and then completely shat the bed last year. I see plenty there to love.
Upsets and the underdog playing up to their competition is nothing new in this rivalry.
ohio was awful in 1999, was leading for quite awhile and Michigan had to come back and win 24-17.
In 2002, Michigan hung around and had a chance to win it at the end.
A win is a win.
A sense of humor is missing here, no?
Wow, I hope I can be as cool and funny as you someday!
is a noun.
It is probably derived from a Germanic past participal of the verb, "to give."
Oh well, "gift" until it hurts.
I'm not excited for next year. Have you seen our schedule? It's going to be incredibly difficult. We play ND, MSU, NW, and OSU on the road, as well as Utah, and Penn State at home. I dont think that favors Michigan.
For having the rivalry games on the road, it is a fairly manageable schedule IMO.
Is it manageable? Yes. Is it winnable? Yes. Is it more difficult than if those games were home? Also yes. My point was; the toughest games on our schedule are on the road, which is worrysome, if not discouraging. I dont really understand your point?...
Don't forget we are playing The Horror II.
Check the schedule again. No Nebraska, but Northwestern in Evanston again.
Wait until next year! That's about all we have left at this point.
Um not really. Given the schedule and the fact that we're still going to be young I think it's wait until the year after next year.
Then we are ABSOLUTELY GOING TO KICK ASS!
I'm afraid I have to agree with mGrowOld. Due to our youth and schedule next year, I think 2015 is our best shot at being dominant (and even relevant), we wont play ND, we have MSU, and OSU at home, and our away games are going to be Maryland, Minnesota, Indiana, and Penn State.
Our schedule is difficult, although lewan and schofield have been decent, I'm not as worried as I once was. Honestly, neither have had a good year, IMO. Granted the new starters may not be as efficient right away, but it's hard to believe our line as a whole could be worse.
Not to pick on you leonhall, but every season preview this year said there was no way the line could be worse than last year. Every preview. Sadly we found out that was not true. I'll leave you with this quote from an old Garfield comic: Every time I think I've hit bottom, someone throws me a shovel.
Right, I will never listen to hype again. I never understood those though who thought this years line would be better, we were going to have 3 new starters, that typically is never good. Still if this experience is worth anything, maybe it will help for next season. At least magnusson is getting PT, albeit, a different spot, hopefully Kalis comes back, and between he and Bosch or Dawson, we are better in the middle.
That was the consensus - the oline in 2013 can't be as bad as 2012. Unfortunately for 2014 we lose far and away our two best olineman and return a bunch of guys who haven't looked any where ready for big time college football. It might be better but I'm not expecting much improvement from the oline next year.
Agreed. Next year is going to be ugly. Away games at ND, Ohio, state, and NW again. What does that say about our staff that we realistically have to look forward to year 5 to see any improvement? I've never had such little hope about this program, not even during the RR experiment.
"What does that say about our staff that we realistically have to look forward to year 5 to see any improvement?"
It's not great, but it does give us a clear indelible line of delineation. Hoke is not going to be fired soon and even Funk and Borges will probably still be around. OK, I can live with that. We don't want to become ND. We want to give every chance possible for the coaching staff to succeed.
The 2015 season is that chance. By the end of that season there will be no need for speculation, we will know for sure. 2015 lines up as the acid test: favorable schedule, all Hoke's 4*/5* guys, experience and depth at every position, Morris' 3rd year in the system. All the plausible excuses are gone.
If it's going to happen, it's going to happen by 2015. If that season is over and we're still posting threads about next year . . . it's time for a change.
Dude...hate to break it to you, but we're already ND. Except maybe worse since they've been to a championship game. The only thing we have to hang our hats on recently is sneaking our way into a BCS game. And losing to Texas in the 2005 Rose Bowl is pretty much the lone highlight since the '97 team.
Does the '99 Orange Bowl count as a highlight? How about the 38-0 beat downs of Notre Dame?
There is a very realistic chance Hoke will have the following record vs. UM rivals by then:
Let that sink in as you dream of 2015.
Since 2007 UM has gone: 9-4, 3-9, 5-7, 7-6, 11-2, 8-5 and probably at least 4 or more losses this year. We've pretty much already become ND.
The lack of hope has to do more with the fact that fans of this program have not seen improvement on the offense. In fact, it's been regression since ND. Why? We don't know because our coaches think everything is "good" and the play-calling is "good" and we just need a little better "execution". What would make anyone believe that an increase in age will make any of these players better?
what will be hard about the NW game? Colter will be gone, Simien is terrible and they don't have much else to work with
How dare you incur the wrath of a throw-god by calling him terrible!
If the meme that all young offensive line suck is true, then next year will be even worse than this year as we lose the most experienced and talented players on the oline and replace them with redshirt sophomores.
Lets see, suppose RS Seniors are worth 4.5 points and RS sophomores are 2.5, then we'll lose 4 points offset to some degree by the fact that the other 3 positions wiill be a year older. So, net loss of 1 pt, means our average will drop a little, but not much.
You're saying we'll be worse. Thanks for that.
Honestly though, I can't understand how we keep going backwards as an offense and seemingly not at least remaining at a certain level. Why don't the staff go back to Miller at center, Glasgow at G and bring either Kalis or Bryant in at the other G spot (not that G spot). At least we actually gained positive yards with those guys in and we haven't played better competition (other than MSU). I mean, we gained yards on ND and they certainly have a better D than Nebraska.
I can see why we were dreadful against MSU, but there is no excuse for what happened on Saturday and I have to think that if the line was playing at least as well as they were against ND then we could have at least gained positive yards on the ground, but this team is going backwards...How is any of this possible without our offensive staff being on the hotseat? It seems like the fans are the only ones willing to aknowledge what a train wreck this is and the fact that change is needed.
I'm curbing my expectations for this team next year. I've learned my lesson.
Just tell yourself before every season: "I refuse to believe the inevitable hype coming out of Summer/Spring practice."
Remember how our O-line this summer was supposed to be a jump forward from last year's, what with all the highly touted recruits and whatnot?
Dinardo on BTN saying after we beat ND that we were the best team in the big ten. Lol.
I like this thread
Yes. It has that commiserative quality to it that just feels so good on a Sunday afternoon. Kinda like I used to feel when my father would make me do chores around the house following a loss by the Detroit Lions featuring Milt Plum or whoever...
I actually think the OL will be better by the B1G part of the schedule next year.
Offensive Linemen are like the tires on a car. One really good one does not make up for three really bad ones. You are better off with four mediocre ones.
An OL without any stars but without the glaring weaknesses it has now will actually be a functionally better unit. No good, but functional.
That's not going to make us B1G champs, but it will keep us from losing/almost losing to teams like NEB, PSU, UCONN, Akron.
So that's progress of a sort.
I think its actually reasonable to expect the O-line to be better by that time next year, not just think it will be.
about how awful Omameh became under Hoke and how terrible the line was last season with 3 seniors in the middle.
Been good on oline? At this point I wish the staff would move schofield to guard and magnusson to RT.
I think I've discovered the problem. We think OL are like tires and we only use 4. We've got a 5th one in the trunk, but it is undersized and we don't use it often. When we do use the spare, we can't go full speed and take one of the original 4 and throw it in the trunk.
the coaching to be better. Whether that's with different coaches or with the same coaches taking some lessons over the summer, I just want the coaching to be better.
Gardner comes back as a WR, Bellamy,Morris, and Speight at QB.
Wrong answer, sir.
Agreed, I don't even think Tom Brady would be able to do much with this offensive live and the play calling Borges is throwing out there.
I still think Devin is a pretty damn good quarterback, just that he got hit so many damn times that he gets nervous everytime he gets a bit of pressure which is kinda justified at this point.
And who knows how injured he actually is. He looks a lot slower out there, he's gotta be pretty banged up.
Disagree, Tom Brady could probably coach the o-line to actually improve, and as far as play calling, every time Borges called a play, Tom would say, "F-it, I'm Tom Brady, I'm calling an audible to something that will work".
to this. So finally Devin Gardner traded in interceptions for pointlessly taking sacks and hits. I'd still prefer someone who understands throwing the ball away. Even if you wanna claim he is injured, alot of the hits he takes are his fault for not just throwing it away or scampering out of bounds.
He does not know how to brace himself for ground contact or how to nicely fall on the ground. Everytime he's tackled he looks like he's going to get injured. Devin Gardner has 0 confidence and 0 football sense. He does silly things like slow down to stiff arm a guy instead of just run past him. You can't teach someone not to do that. No football sense at all.
Get a real QB in there. END THIS DAMN transition from RR already and put in a pocket passer.
Yes, let's put in a less mobile freshman so he can die that much harder when dudes blow through our line and the two receivers in patterns are on the second of their 145-move routes.
Currently, there is literally no one worse on the blog than the "bench Gardner because everything is his fault" crowd. No one. I would take the trolls over you.
I don't know who your telling to fuck off but in real life i bet you don't even lift your head to look me in the eyes.
It wont matter. Our offense under Borges has gone from 44th to 79th to 84th. Borges will continue to call mid boggling plays in big games and the offense will be at the bottom of the big ten again. The defense this year is good. They have had some mishaps, especially the secondary but i think they will be good next year. The offense will be a letdown. I think we go 8-4 next year.
I feel like 8-4 might be the best case scenario
You are assuming Borges will be back. I would not assume that at this point.
Our already confused qb and oline can learn a new offense!! Let's start over AGAIN!
It would probably take the offensive players all of 5 seconds to forget what they've "learned" from the current coaches. And I'm rounding up by about 4 seconds.
I just hope we don't look pathetic enough to lose recruits at this point
We are MUCH better without any fan saying he will no longer wear M gear. That's clearly a fair weather fan who didn't go to the school and is very indicative of why the board has gone to shit recently.
As an alum I always wear my M gear with pride, even in the 3-9 RR year. I'll be at the NW game Saturday, & wearing M gear Sunday, win or lose, just like I did today. Any fair weather walmart wolverines that want to stop cheering for us: there's the door, don't let it hit ya on the way out. Go root for Sparty, I'm sure they'd love to have more fans.
for dinner wearing a Michigan hoodie. Wearing the colors after a tough loss is about being proud to be a Michigan grad.
... (crickets) ...
Oooh! I've got some things to look forward to!
No more Leaders and Legends!
And four team playoffs!
Unless they come up with a four team playoff for the B1G East next year, I don't think a four team playoff is of much relevance to us.
Looking for the silver lining, M-Dog. Desperately looking for the silver lining.
Is it just me or does strength and conditioning need to improve before next season? I know this team is trying hard but they seem to be a step behind and unable to match the strength of other B1G teams.
This is a huge factor, especially since the most visible skills indicate an issue (poor drive blocking, marginal block shedding, solid tackling) and overall lack of explosiveness.
Green, Chesson, JRIII, Butt, Bolden, Stribling, Dymonte, Lewis - they clearly need lean mass. Our linemen need agility training.
We just are not a physical, quick team.
be better next season. I don't have a single doubt. People bitch about lack of improvement during the season but I see Butt, Chesson, Henry and others making strides.
This is a transition year for the offense and with the exception of the State game, regardless of how ugly, they have been in a position to win every game.
Hoke might be stubborn and he might be wrong, but I wish he'd go to the microphone and tell everyone he believes in what they are doing, that they have the talent to get it right and they will keep doing it as an investment in what he's building.
Agreed about Hoke.
It sounds trivial, but his public demeanor comes across as complacent and even a little bit confused. He comes across a just another spectator, wondering like the rest of us what's going to happen next.
I want to hear that there is a coherent workable plan and a real sense of urgency to implement it.
RB: Mike Hart
OL: Stenavich or Joe Tripodi from N. Illinois
OC: Tyrone Wheatley
DL: (get rid of Ferrigno) Anybody but Mattison and Hoke.
More insular thinking by hiring only Michigan Men. How do we square hiring only alumni (or homers from Ann Arbor) with being an elite program?
This season is not over IMO. If we can manage to win 2 or even 3 more games with the bowl included (I know it's not very likely but either was 6-3 after the ND game), it will be huge in terms of recruiting and keeping things moving forward. Tanking to 6-6 or 6-7 OTOH could be disastrous moving forward.
My hope is that Brandon is the difference maker if Hoke fails to shake up his staff. Ask Tennessee what happens when your team goes into decline for more than a couple of years. A formerly loyal fanbase stops showing up at games. Florida, with the exception of big games, has the same issue.
This program has been very fortunate that fans have supported it through thick and thin, but there will come a time where people will start questioning the cost of attedance and Michigan Stadium not selling out will become a painful reality.
I happen to believe that the problem with the shrinking student section is partof a a trend that is happening nationwide and doesn't bode well for future NCAA football attendance which is in decline. Never before in the history of this or any other program has there been 65 or 70 inch HD displays so affordable with virtually all games available on TV.
So yeah, I think Brandon is painfully aware that the fans are upset. I suspect he heard the boos yesterday. At some point, lasers and blue wristbands and all the cutesy stuff won't be enough. If they haven't already talked, Brandon and Hoke are going to have a serious tete a tete in the not too distant future. Brandon can't afford not to.
Agree with everything you said. It is already happening.
Way too early for that. Wait until after the spring game to make a real prediction.
I don't like speculating. At the beginning of the season the receiving corps was a major cause of concern on the offense. We should have worried about every other position instead because our receinving corps is actually pretty solid especially with Funchess in at WR.
Regarding #2 anyway, if we're just talking about personnel on the field, then I think something that might help as well is a healthy and recovered Amara Darboh. I believe that injury hurt us when it came to receiving options this year, and it will be nice to see what he can contribute next season. As for tight end, I would agree with the OP as well - I do think the future here is pretty bright as well. At several positions, I think the future really is bright.
Nothing will change. 8-4 if Michigan gets very lucky. Rinse, repeat.
I just hope we can beat Rutgers, I would truly be embarrassed if we lose that game seeing as how it will most likely be my first Michigan game ever.
Optimistic. After rewatching yesterday's game I will declare the play calling was better than you think, the oline was borderline ok, with the biggest issue being pulling guards not targeting the right guy and a missed assignment or two on blitz pick ups. and Green looked better than Fitz (at least at running the ball), as Fitz missed 3-4 holes that were just following his blocking.
To me it looks like the biggest issue is that the game has sped up for DG, instead of slowing down. This is probably due to working on not throwing picks. He was reluctant to throw into some tighter windows that he needs to hit, and was late some too. Also as Nebraska walked a 8th guy into the box we never made an adjustment.
If DG can get his confidence back, and if Borges will give DG the ability to check out of bad plays, he can be great.
The first year guards (in the 2nd and 3rd starts) should be MUCH improved at targeting people. With those 2 improvements, the offense should be far more consistent next year, as long as the tackles are at least serviceable.
Seven sacks allowed and 29 yards on 22 carries if you remove the sacks. This was against a Nebraska team who has allowed 5+ yards a carry to pretty much everybody.
I appreciate people trying to look for silver linings, but there is no sugercoating how awful the o-line has been this year and most notably the last two weeks. None of the RB's (Fitz or Green) missed multiple holes, because they did not exist.
Of the UFR. When both teams stack the box and block 7 vs 8, it's going to be tight in there. Fitz gave up 1-3 yards on most of his runs by not following his blockers. half of the sacks were on Fitz or Green, 2-3 of them when there was no other pressure. Close to half of the runs, the line was outnumbered.
Put all of that together and the line was nowhere near as bad as most here would say. (Note, I am not suggesting they were good) The defense loaded up and blitzed all day. At some point the coaches have to help them out and/or the QB and WRs needs to make plays
There weren't a ton of holes but Fitz does not hit the hole, whether it be from the injury or just not being a physical back, I think it's time derrick green gets the starts.
Either The O Line Performed Poorly In Spite Of Good Play Calling, Or They Played Decent And The Play Calling Was Terrible.
-21 Yards Against A Team That Gave Up 270 To South Dakota State...Something wasn't Right.
I am excited about a number of things for next year, but I am trying to keep my excitement in check because I was this year too. That being said, here’s what I’m excited about on defense. I am excited about a full year with a healthy JMFR. I am excited about Ross. I am excited about Peppers and fully believe he steps in as our best DB. I am excited about Stribling. I think Peppers, Countess, Stribling, Taylor, and Lewis will be a pretty good set of DBs. I am hopeful that Thomas and Wilson will be ready at safety, but also a little nervous about that too. I am still excited about Pipkins if he is healthy and I think Mone is good enough to step in and play as a freshman. I think Henry is coming along and those three will be enough in the trenches next year. I am still nervous about our pass rush but hope Ojemudia or Taco make a big jump and overtake Clark. I thinnk Hand like Peppers starts from day one if he decides to come aboard, but I’m not all that optimistic he will any longer. I am really excited about Ferns and think he may break into the lineup the same way Ross did. I think he takes Bolden’s role.
On the offensive side I am still nervous about Braden. I don’t believe practice hype. I am also nervous about Glasgow. I am excited about the potential of the young guys…Bosch, Kugler, Kalis, Dawson, etc. I know they will still be young, but I am hopeful with another year under their belt that Kalis in particular will be better. With just an average offensive line I think we can do a lot with our other weapons. I am excited about Butt and Funchess and think with Butt’s success we can keep Funchess at WR permanently. I think Funchess, Darboh, and Chesson should be just fine next year. I think Norfleet can be a weapon if we decide to use him. I am still excited about Green if he gets some space from the guys up front. I still believe Gardner can be a great weapon if we can get a running game going with the backs and he's not constantly worried about getting drilled. I am excited about Speight and Harris, although I think Harris needs some time to develop physically.
Overall I think our team will be very similar to this year’s team, only with a little more experience, and a little more talent which will again be really young. I really think Peppers ability and confidence will be a difference maker for our team eventually if not next year. I am really confident in Ryan. We just need to develop a leader on the line. I hope Ojemudia or Taco and Wormley make a big jump because I am not confident in the other DEs. There's no reason to beleive if they stay healthy they can't in year 3. But, overall our defense should be good enough albeit not great if we can just get a running game going. Here’s to hoping a year of experience, maturity, and time in the weight room will do wonders. I think the peices are there it's really just a matter of coaching them up, putting them in positions to be successful, and gaining some confidence. We need a big road win thought to get that confidence going. Few guys on the team will have been around for a big road win. We are gonna have to earn it to change the culture. It won't happen by accident.
The only 2 things that could keep next year's team from being better are if no tackles are at least ok. (Magnuson should ease those fears some?) or if we have a major coaching change.
Other than that we either have people back or 'normal' turnover with experienced backups stepping in.
I disagree about all of those freshman stepping into starting roles. We won't need that anymore!!! Those who do should be stars (Peppers). On the dline, Poggi and/or Hurst should be next guys in instead of Mone
I think Mone is a star. On Michigan's current roster, which is probably based off summer numbers Hurst is 6'2" 270 and Poggi is 6'4" 260. Mone is 6'4" 315 in high school still. Mone is a top 5 DT in the country in high school. Poggi was the #22 DT and Hurst was the #54 DT coming out of high school. Nothing against either kid because they both have potential, but they both are not in the same talent pool as Mone. I wouldn't expect Hurst or Poggi be ready to contribute until year 3. Mone already has the size to play big time college football and he's acutally leaner than the other two. Both Hurst and Poggi need time to develop and gain strength.
Poggi was ranked much higher than that on Rivals.
How much higher? I'm still guessing he is nowhere near a top 5 guy, right?
Top 5 DT. 70th ranked player overall.
I guess time will tell on the ranking then since I have access one ranking system. But, Poggi does not carry the same size (315lbs vs 260lbs) and scouts seem to think Mone is already at his physical cieling and has the size and strength to contribute early. I never heard that about Poggi.
MGoStrength, don't you know by now that all freshman and sophomores are not able to play quality football? That's why the team is performing so poorly this year. Get up to speed with the current board trends!
Devin's leadership in the receiving corps.
Just an idea. I'm sure it will spark some conversation here.
Players coach.. Do we really believe Hoke and co. would, for lack of a better word, "demote" Gardner to receiver? I think it would be the correct move and would put him in a better position to use the abilities he has, but still.. I don't think they'll even consider that unless it's Gardner's choice. Just my opinion.
They should do it for the remainder of the season. I said it yesterday bench toussaint and start green and Morris the season is over let them get the experience for next season. Honestly it's the only way hoke can gain back some respect. Switching Gardner to receiver is an idea with gallon gone we won't have much experience just a bunch of stars next to some name
Don't get me wrong, I love the idea and I hope it happens.
I'm sure Hoke is terribly worried about getting your respect back. There is no chance of them sticking Morris in there to get killed behind a bad oline. Remember David Carr. You don't do that to a young QB at any level.
He is too dynamic of a player to not have the ball in his hands as often as possible. He has made strides in recent weeks with cutting down on turnovers, and last I checked has accounted for 20+ touchdowns this year (something he wouldn't be able to do at WR).
Do people not understand that Devin has not even started two full years yet at QB? He will most likely make significant improvements next year to become a more consistent player. He does need to learn to throw the ball away more, but that is not something that can not be improved on. To throw him under the bus in not even his second full year when he has no running game to support him, is being coached by a predictable OC and is playing behind an awful o-line is borderline ridiculous.
Also his mobility has created alot of plays out of nothing this year (though it has created some negative ones as well). Those positive plays made out of nothing would not have occured with a less mobile QB back there.
Morris will get his shot in 2015, UM doesn't need to throw another inexperienced QB out there. That has happened far too often in recent years.
Wait until next year. Wait until next year. Wait until next year.
How many times have we been saying this to ourselves? That next year is going to be "our year?" A lot of coaches have done more with less in a shorter timespan. I don't see any excuses left on the table anymore.
Said we were 2-3 years away before this year. Popular opinion said next year to challenge for B10, 2 years from national relevance. Sadly this is the 2nd straight year of the Center, guard, guard combo being a huge question mark. Preview said we would get better just due to the 3 freshman/ sophmores couldn't be worse than last year, they certainly haven't been better
If we still have Borges and Funk around next year, it won't matter how much the o-line improves in the offseason. Teams will continually stack the box and Borges will refuse to do anything but run right smack into the middle of it.
I don't see us winning a big ten title with either of those guys as members of our staff. Their respective units have gotten progressively worse each year since they've been here.
Maybe not. Having a returning QB should allow more audibles. And watch yesterday's game again. More than half of those runs looked like banging your head into a wall at first glance were really just one missed assignment from 5-10 yard gains.
Remember we are only 2 weeks removed from the best offensive performance in school history. (Halfway joking but really)
Oddly enough UM has had 1 season in the past 6 years where both the QB and OC both returned
with actual knowledge.
Well, until we get Saban, Meyer, Harbaugh, or another notable high profile proven coach we will continue to say it. Or until our current eventually gets us there.
I am optimistic for next year though we will need some competent offensive coaches. The defense should take a step forward. In fact we may be similar to MSU though again depending on if we make a change and on who we get we will have talent on the offensive side of the ball.
There is a foundation here we just need the right people on the bus in terms of coaches to activate it.
Regardless, I'll still be in Evanston next weekend largely because I live in Lincoln Park and my friend is planning on coming into town to watch the game with me.
We are bringing back 7 starters from the oline! ( but will have to bring in 1-2 new guys). Miller, Glasgow, Kalis, brzynski?, Bryant, Magnuson, and Bosch, not to mention not playing a true freshman at TE.
From what I saw yesterday, tackle in this offense is the easiest spot to pick up. Guards are constantly pulling and trying to target the correct guy. This year of experience should really help.
Losing Gallon, Dileo, and Fitz isn't great, but we have the next guy up identified. The b10 once went 6 straight years with only senior QBs going to the Rose Bowl. Having a 5th year returning QB is a HUGE deal.
Because miller, Glasgow, Kalis, Bosch, magnuson, Bryant, and burzynskie have all started at some point on the oline. That would equal 7
none of those returning olinemen for 2014 look like they should be starting right now. Maybe the light comes on for a couple of them between now and September next year, but to me UM's oline prospects don't look that good for next year.
We will be better, but incrementally so . Lewan and Gallon are losses but all others probably have replacements with higher ceilings. Schedule tougher because of away games opponents . I hate to say this but Gardner should probably go back to WR. Coaches won't do it , but w/o a spectacular turnaround the rest of the year one has to wonder if the team will really support him at QB given this years slide. Of course , the entire offensive staff needs to be replaced as well as DB coach. The only thing worse than a disappointing season is winter, spring and summer with no football.
I agree with a new DB coach as well.. People think mallory is good, but he came from IU where his dad or brother coaches, and the secondary has continually gotten worse year to year..
I think the coach should be d-line because the secondary and d-line work in tandem. You need pressure to play tight man coverage. A HC and a DC spending part of their time coaching that position I don't think is acceptable ... A dedicated guy, much like in the first season of the Hoke regime, can work wonders. Focus and dedication are legitimate. Not saying Hoke and Mattison are bad coaches - I can't expect them to do everything at once while still having stellar line play.
It's a shame none of us will see the 2914 recruiting class... They are supposed to be the real deal
So true. Kali's, mags, miller, Bosch will be old enough then to execute, right?
I will be optimistic when I see an O line that can run and pass block. Until then wash, rinse and repeat.
Who cares about the skill positions you mentioned. How about the OL and DL?!? Can't do anything else if they suck. And they do. No reason to think they'll get better with Borges, Funk, and to a lesser degree Fred Jackson around. (Why can't the RBs pickup a blitz?)
Have you looked at next year's schedule? We'll be lucky to win 6-7 games. The home slate of games is also terrible and includes the Horror part II. It's possible that we'll barely get to 100,000 in attendance for some home games next year.
Is it really so hard to formulate an educated opinion? There is no problem with you thinking this but state why. The whole point on this thread was to discuss and debate why, or why not, to be excited for next season. Not just throw insults towards the staff or team.
We will say next season.
I'm a Mich fan, slappy, whatever you wanna call it.
I will always wear Mich stuff. I will always support the school and my team.
I know my limits...but I will not, because a team doesn't live up to my expectations, quit. I love Mich and bleed maize and blue.
If you stop donating, rooting, going to games because they aren't the best team in the world. Fine, that's your choice, but loyalty wins for me. I know where that stands, with the school I grew up with and the school I graduated from.
I am excited every year. No matter what. Football and basketball. My M flag flies high in front of my house. I don't care if you like it...
Not to mention we are a top 10 university in academics. If I ever get to the point where the athletics mean more to me than my education and my experiences in Ann Arbor, shoot me. I wear M apparel because I love the school and that ain't changing.
You don't want to wear it, fine. See you later bandwagonites.
Has anyone ever thought that maybe it's not coaching? Maybe it's the players...
I'm not saying either way...but winning cures all.
Stop listening to Whitlock and the other talking heads that think they know all the answers...
Form your own opinions.
I said nothing about luck...but, luck plays a small roll.
Just cuz you get 5 star recruits doesn't mean you going to be great...
Coaching has something to do with it...but a coach can yell and scream for days...IT STILL HAS TO BE EXECUTED!
It's a combination of both. You cannot blame the coaching staff for everything.
Your argument is fine. I just feel it's both. Not just the coaches. The coaches lost the players.
Blame that one whoever you want. Listen...we could be Florida.
Hoke is fine. He didn't do a good job...this year. Carr has rough years too. 7 of his 13 years coaching he had 9 or less wins. 7-5 in 2005.
Personally I think it's an offensive thing. Borges issue. But that's me...
Defensively...I think the players just aren't very good. Overrated. We need to recruit our system. Dantonio has done a great job with this. He has players that 'buy in'. We need that. Mich can't sell itself anymore with hoke. He needs to sell his system.
Peppers is a great start. Hand would help. McDowell would be awesome. But they NEED to buy in. We all can be michigan men...but can you play that way???
have execution problems because they have roster depth and in Saban's case, multiple years to develop guys.
Hoke will be coach so I would guess 8-4 and 3rd in division. Loss in Gator Bowl to Vanderbilt
is he out of the NFL or did he pick up with another team? I would love to see him on the staff next year.
I believe the OL will be the same or marginally better in 2014. That scares me. The OL needs to take about 4 steps forward just to be considered average; at best I see 1-2. I am scared that Green has not flashed in any game not called CMU. I have not seen 1 run that made me say "Wow almost like Yeldon..." or "This is our Hyde". I hope he surprises me but I have yet to see a thing. Drake Johnson is a mystery as is D. Smith.
You mention the WRs - I like Chesson starting to emerge and Funchess Chesson and the legend of Darboh would make a decent top 3 I hope, and you assume one of the RS frosh this year make a leap next year. But Gallon is great...and Chesson or Darboh is not Gallon. So even with Funchess out there, it's a drop off IMO.
Devin will be a senior and I hope he gets his swag back and more importantly is able to read defenses better and find his 2nd option. If not its all moot. Butt should be a very nice player next year.
The defense should be better - hopes for Taco, Mario, Wormley, Henry on the line...Pipkins has yet to flash, we'll see if he does next year. Clark was not that effective vs Neb but seemed to improve vs MSU. If he can put it together his senior year it would be a plus but I dont count on it because it is ...Clark. LBs I thought would be great for us this year but thus far have been above average - some of that is probably due to an average DL; if they were left clean I think they might impress more. Next year you have a senior and healthy JMFR, a senior Morgan, and a senior Beyer along with Ross who I incorrectly thought would have a massive breakoutout 2013. Maybe in 2014. So I will throw the hat in the ring and say LBs will be great next year and top unit on team. In secondary, Stribling with a year under his belt I am excited about. Taylor and Countess come back as 3 year starters - if Mattison does not play press next year than he will never play press. We'll see if Peppers does stuff as a frosh but based on Green hype and this staff I cant get excited about any freshman right now.
We don't have a FG kicker we can count on, and a punter who shanks it 1-2x a game. Disappointing at this type of program.
I see another 7-5 type of season with losses at EL and Columbus guaranteed and ND likely. Tough games versus Utah at home and PSU. And 2-3 other games the fan base is saying "wow how the heck is this game a (a) close win or (b) a loss". I dont see us dominating anyone but maybe 2 teams on the schedule. I see a great chance of Hoke being fired in 12 months with what I believe will happen in Columbus behind a senior Braxton next year and a defense, unlike ours, showing playmakers starting to pop everywhere among their TRUE freshman (Bosa), RS Freshman, and sophomores. If Hoke loses by 25+ in AA and 25+ in Columbus back to back, I dont know how you defend him.
But you think our linebackers have only been average? Our safeties don't lead the team in tackles for once I believe cuz the linebackers are there. Ross is the best playmaker in that group till Ryan's healthy and he hasn't "broken out" as you say because for some reason bolden keeps seeing the field and that kid just does not get the mental side of the game. They have been good as a unit this year.
Next year we get haggerup back punting problem solved. And is wile back? Cuz he's not an awful FG kicker. Clark will be better even if it isn't up to peoples standard. And we will have way better receiver depth than we've had since the Braylon, avant, breaston, Arrington, manningham, tabb days. So I don't get the gloom at the WR position.
Really it is up to the coaching of the oline. If there's no development there were hard pressed to move significantly forward.
Public suicide attempts are not looked at kindly in ann arbor. They tackled me after I doused myself in gasoline but before I could light the match. Now my skin is all dry and itchy.
Let's promote Stenavich and send Funk packing today. I think that is a damn fine idea. Then we can get a full time QB coach and add in a full time D line coach. Perhaps we can find a role for Ron English because he did pretty well with our defenses before. Maybe he can coach the D line or Linebackers. This can happen now!
Then after the season ends we can get a new OC, hopefully someone who doesn't refuse to even try going 4 or 5 wide sometimes to spread out the D. Then, we need Stenavich to teach RB pass protection/blocking. Hell, if Vincent Smith could do it I don't know why Fitz can't be taught to do it.
the decline of Michigan's shutdown defenses to English.
My hope is that next season, Borges calls run play after run because we're actually gaining yards. Not because he's a one trick pony
6-6 to 8-4, Whip pee! We will lose on the road to ND, MSU, NW and OSU, so here are your 4 losses. But it could be worse if we lose a few more at home, then we could be 6-6? But in '15 I think we will go 9-3? DB loves Hoke, so he will be around for another 5 years!
After thinking about it I am not sure if firing Borges will do any good. Hoke will probably just bring a former Michigan coach who is washed up. Why can't Michigan get creative? Five years ago Gus Malzhan was coaching high school football. Michigan should try to find a young hungry guy who is not afraid to be creative. Alas this will never happen. Michigan is content to be mediocre.
This is where Dave Brandon makes it happen or not. Mostly likely not. OK, definitely not.
I am not fan of his, but if he can get rid of Borges AND have had the foresight to do the due dilligence to have already researched a sweet list of those "young hungry" coaches, a list from which Hoke must pick, then I will happily re-evaluate how poor of a leader I think he is.
I will be dressed in my maize and blue and cheering like hell before a crowd of Ohio fans and a half empty student section. But I will be there, and I will be proud of my team. Go Blue!
Stopped reading after
"1. The defense is pretty good this year."
As long as Hoke and staff can get the team back to wining 8 or 9 games a season, he will be happy. I'm sure this year and next will be Hoke's two worse at Michigan but I can see him being a consistent 8 or 9 game year a winner! Yeah!