Home
i'm an actor, not a reactor

Primary links

  • About
    • $upport (lol)
    • Ethics
    • FAQ
    • Glossary
    • Privacy Policy
  • Contact
  • MGoStore
    • Hail to Old Blue
  • MGoBoard
    • MGoBoard FAQ
    • Michigan bar locator
    • Moderator Action Sticky
  • Useful Stuff
    • Depth Chart By Class
    • Hoops Depth Chart by Class
    • 2017 Recruiting Board
    • Unofficial Two Deep
    • MGoFlickr
    • Diaries, Windows Live Writer, And You
    • User-Curated HOF
    • Where To Eat In Ann Arbor
  • Schedule/Tix
    • Future Schedules (wiki)
    • Ticket spreadsheet
Home Forums MGoBoard

Navigation

  • Forums
  • Recent posts

User login

  • Create new account
  • Request new password

MGoElsewhere

  • @MGoBlog (Brian)
  • @aceanbender
  • @Misopogon (Seth)
  • @Aeschnepp (Adam)
  • @BISB
  • @EUpchurchPhoto
  • @FullOfTwitt (Fuller)
  • Hail to the Victors 2016
  • MGoFacebook
  • MGoPodcast
  • WTKA
  • Instagram

Michigan Blogs

  • Big House Blog
  • Burgeoning Wolverine Star
  • Genuinely Sarcastic
  • Go Blue Michigan Wolverine
  • Holdin' The Rope
  • MVictors
  • Maize 'n' Blue Nation
  • Maize 'n' Brew
  • Maize And Go Blue
  • Michigan Hockey Net
  • MMMGoBlueBBQ
  • The Blog That Yost Built
  • The Hoover Street Rag
  • The M Zone
  • Touch The Banner
  • UMGoBlog
  • UMHoops
  • UMTailgate
  • Wolverine Liberation Army

M On The Net

  • mgovideo
  • MGoBlue.com
  • Mike DeSimone
  • Recruiting Planet
  • The Wolverine
  • Go Blue Wolverine
  • Winged Helmet
  • UMGoBlue.com
  • MaizeRage.org
  • Puckhead
  • The M Den
  • True Blue Fan Forum

Big Ten Blogs

  • Illinois
    • Illinois Loyalty
    • Illinois Baseball Report
  • Indiana
    • Inside The Hall
    • The Crimson Quarry
  • Iowa
    • Black Heart, Gold Pants
    • Fight For Iowa
  • Michigan State
    • The Only Colors
  • Minnesota
    • GopherHole.com
    • The Daily Gopher
  • Nebraska
    • Corn Nation
    • Husker Max
    • Husker Mike's Blasphemy
    • Husker Gameday
  • Northwestern
    • Sippin' On Purple
    • Lake The Posts
  • Notre Dame
    • The House Rock Built
    • One Foot Down
  • Ohio State
    • Eleven Warriors
    • Buckeye Commentary
    • Men of the Scarlet and Gray
    • Our Honor Defend
    • The Buckeye Nine
  • Penn State
    • Slow States
    • Black Shoe Diaries
    • Happy Valley Hardball
    • Penn State Clips
    • Linebacker U
    • Nittany White Out
  • Purdue
    • Boiled Sports
    • Hammer and Rails
  • Wisconsin
    • Bruce Ciskie

Links of Note

  • Baseball
    • College Baseball Today
    • The College Baseball Blog
  • Basketball
    • Ken Pomeroy
    • Hoop Math
    • John Gasaway
    • Luke Winn/Sports Illustrated
  • College Hockey
    • Chris Heisenberg (Class of 2016)
    • College Hockey Stats
    • Michigan College Hockey
    • Hockey's Future
    • Sioux Sports
    • USCHO
  • Football
    • Smart Football
    • Every Day Should Be Saturday
    • Matt Hinton/Grantland
    • Football Study Hall
    • Football Outsiders
    • Harold Stassen
    • NCAA D-I Stats Page
    • The Wizard Of Odds
    • CFB Stats
  • General
    • Sports Central
  • Local Interest
    • The Ann Arbor Chronicle
    • Arborwiki
    • Arbor Update
    • Ann Arbor Observer
    • Teeter Talk
    • Vacuum
  • Teams Of The D
    • Lions
      • Pride of Detroit
    • Pistons
      • Detroit Bad Boys
      • Need4Sheed
    • Tigers
      • Roar Of The Tigers
      • Bless You Boys
      • The Daily Fungo
      • The Detroit Tigers Weblog
    • Red Wings
      • Winging It In Motown
      • On The Wings
    • Michigan Sports Forum

Beveled Guilt

Site Search

Diaries

  • New
  • Popular
  • Hot
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 4 days ago
  • Thirteen unlucky minutes (TL;DNR-This is a bit of rant about the refs)
    docwhoblocked - 2 weeks ago
  • Fan Satisfaction Index End of Season Bball Survey
    OneFootIn - 3 weeks ago
  • How likely are we to revert to the mean?
    Bo Glue - 3 weeks ago
  • It's time to avenge Villanova's 1985 NCAA tourney upset over Michigan
    Communist Football - 3 weeks ago
  •  
  • 1 of 2
  • ››
more
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 1,397 views
  • 14 Months Ago: The Fire Beilein Threads.
    stephenrjking - 237 comments
  • This Month in MGoBlog History - April 2008: No Spring Game at the Big House! Hockey loses to ND in the Frozen Four!
    Maize.Blue Wagner - 9 comments

MGoBoard

  • New
  • Recent
  • Hot
  • Quote from Nebraska A.D.
    40 replies
  • PSA: 2018 FOOTBALL SEASON TICKET UPGRADES
    6 replies
  • More MSU takes. From USA Today
    52 replies
  • OT: National Park Week; What's Your Favorite?
    149 replies
  • New Q&A with Cam McGrone, video
    3 replies
  • Rice Commission recommendations to be released today
    70 replies
  • MBB: Wake Forest grad transfer PG Keyshawn Woods commits to OSU
    19 replies
  • Harmoniously OT: UM Men's Glee Club in AZ
    17 replies
  • Coach B w Andy Katz podcast
    3 replies
  • Michigan Alumni Club Scholarship Golf Tournament featuring Honorary Chair Glen Rice - This Saturday in Miami!
    5 replies
  • Hello? Boring Tuesday POSbang Happy Hour Thread
    115 replies
  • OT: UCL Semi-final First Legs
    14 replies
  • More evidence of awful culture at MSU, volleyball this time
    62 replies
  • OT: Rick Pitino Rumored to be Candidate for Detroit Mercy Job
    79 replies
  • New Jersey DE Aeneas DiCosmo: Prospect we should all want at UM
    55 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • Quote from Nebraska A.D.
    40 replies
  • More MSU takes. From USA Today
    52 replies
  • OT: National Park Week; What's Your Favorite?
    149 replies
  • PSA: 2018 FOOTBALL SEASON TICKET UPGRADES
    6 replies
  • Rice Commission recommendations to be released today
    70 replies
  • More evidence of awful culture at MSU, volleyball this time
    62 replies
  • New Q&A with Cam McGrone, video
    3 replies
  • Hello? Boring Tuesday POSbang Happy Hour Thread
    115 replies
  • MBB: Wake Forest grad transfer PG Keyshawn Woods commits to OSU
    19 replies
  • A piece of U-M broadcast history ends tonight.
    29 replies
  • Harmoniously OT: UM Men's Glee Club in AZ
    17 replies
  • Coach B w Andy Katz podcast
    3 replies
  • In-state recruiting rankings update
    125 replies
  • Michigan Alumni Club Scholarship Golf Tournament featuring Honorary Chair Glen Rice - This Saturday in Miami!
    5 replies
  • OT: Rick Pitino Rumored to be Candidate for Detroit Mercy Job
    79 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››
  • Belleville coach Jermain Crowell mad at UM again
    244 replies
  • "Being Not-Rich at UM" Guide
    168 replies
  • OT: National Park Week; What's Your Favorite?
    149 replies
  • The Evolution of Commerce - What Industries are Dying, What's Thriving?
    148 replies
  • Pep Hamilton on Shea: Can extend the play, make all the throws, plus other QB's
    129 replies
  • In-state recruiting rankings update
    125 replies
  • OT - Jalen Hurts possibly looking to transfer
    121 replies
  • Notre Dame Spring Game: analysis from M n B, video
    119 replies
  • Hello? Boring Tuesday POSbang Happy Hour Thread
    115 replies
  • No additional protest of Shea Patterson appeal by Ole Miss
    113 replies
  • Nebraska football
    105 replies
  • OT: Map of college stadiums that sell alcohol
    96 replies
  • Karsen Barnhart - did we cool on him?
    92 replies
  • OT: College Football video games coming back
    90 replies
  • UCF Knights unveil 2017 championship banner
    89 replies
  •  
  • 1 of 6
  • ››

Support MGoBlog: buy stuff at Amazon

The Next Chapter in the Penn State Story That Never Ends

49 posts / 0 new
Login or register to post comments
Last post
November 1st, 2012 at 2:12 PM
#1
bluebyyou
Joined: 09/07/2009
MGoPoints: 10804
The Next Chapter in the Penn State Story That Never Ends

Graham Spanier has been charged with a series of crimes and Curley and Schultz face new charges.

 

"Spanier was charged with perjury, obstruction, endangering the welfare of children, failure to properly report suspected abuse and conspiracy. Curley and Schultz face new charges of endangering the welfare of children, obstruction and conspiracy."

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8579116/graham-spanier-ch...

A horrible situation that will be with us for a while.  I'd guess at least a year or two until the legal phase is completed.
Top
  • Login or register to post comments
Tags:
  • MGoBoard
  • Big Ten
  • football
  • Graham Spa
  • Penn State
  • Sandusky Scandal

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
November 1st, 2012 at 2:17 PM
#2
BillyOcean
BillyOcean's picture
Joined: 01/21/2011
MGoPoints: 1103
next chapter after that..

Nuts get cut if with a rusty screw driver..blaow!

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:29 PM
#3
Toby Flenderson
Toby Flenderson's picture
Joined: 01/16/2012
MGoPoints: 10190
Fuck those enablers, fucking

Fuck those enablers, fucking cowards

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:42 PM
#4
david from wyoming
david from wyoming's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 2981
Does mgoboard really need

Does mgoboard really need continual coverage on this?

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:50 PM
(Reply to #4) #5
BlueFab5
BlueFab5's picture
Joined: 11/20/2008
MGoPoints: 285
Look out, mgoboard police.

Don't click on the thread if you don't like the topic.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:50 PM
(Reply to #4) #6
BlueFab5
BlueFab5's picture
Joined: 11/20/2008
MGoPoints: 285
Look out, mgoboard police.

Don't click on the thread if you don't like the topic.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:55 PM
(Reply to #4) #7
Toby Flenderson
Toby Flenderson's picture
Joined: 01/16/2012
MGoPoints: 10190
If it doesn't interest you,

If it doesn't interest you, don't click on it. I think it's interesting

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:58 PM
(Reply to #8) #8
david from wyoming
david from wyoming's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 2981
I'm not saying it isn't

I'm not saying it isn't interesting, since that is clearly a personal opinion that will vary on the individual level. I'm wondering how is really directly relates to Michigan sports and if fairly small developments in a dark story need to be discussed at length on this forum.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:10 PM
(Reply to #10) #9
Toby Flenderson
Toby Flenderson's picture
Joined: 01/16/2012
MGoPoints: 10190
The former president being

The former president being charged with numerous crimes isn't fairly small. You seem to be the only one who doesn't care. That's fine, just don't be a dick about it.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:37 PM
(Reply to #14) #10
david from wyoming
david from wyoming's picture
Joined: 03/15/2009
MGoPoints: 2981
I'm not sure how asking

I'm not sure how asking questions is being a dick.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:44 PM
(Reply to #18) #11
joeyb
joeyb's picture
Joined: 10/12/2008
MGoPoints: 14048
We get ~3-5 actual news

We get ~3-5 actual news stories on the boards any given day during the season. Upping that by 1 is OK by me even if it doesn't directly relate to Michigan.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:37 PM
(Reply to #18) #12
Mr Miggle
Mr Miggle's picture
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 31247
You were asking a loaded question.

You termed it continual coverage. When was last board topic on the PSU scandal? There have been plenty of minor news items about the case that haven't been posted here. This one is pretty significant.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:52 PM
(Reply to #10) #13
kdhoffma
Joined: 07/10/2008
MGoPoints: 2688
Maybe you should take it up

Maybe you should take it up with Brian... since he has covered the PSU/Sandusky story multiple times on the fornt page.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:20 PM
(Reply to #10) #14
mejunglechop
mejunglechop's picture
Joined: 07/09/2008
MGoPoints: 6619
The immolation of one of the

The immolation of one of the Big Ten's power programs matters quite a bit to Michigan.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:28 PM
(Reply to #10) #15
saveferris
saveferris's picture
Joined: 07/02/2009
MGoPoints: 15708
I tend to agree

The NCAA isn't going to impose any additonal sanctions on the Penn State football program as a result of these indictments.  The Penn State fanbase will continue their mass-denial that their devotion to Paterno was an enabling factor in how this whole scandal played out.  The Paternos will continue to claim their father's innocence and non-culpability in this matter, reinforced by the Penn State's fanbase devotion to the memory of their beloved football coach.

So from the perspective of how this affect Michigan football:

  1. Penn State is going to suck and be easy pickings for the next several years
  2. Penn State fans will continue to exhibit a complete lack of contrition with regards to the scandal, and instead find some kind of faux nobility in their punishment.
  3. We'll continue to find their attitude infuriating.

Basically, nothing to see here.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:45 PM
#16
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 29685
So with Spainer, Schultz and Curley...

all charged with crimes relating to the cover-up, I can't help but wonder if Paterno himself would be looking at any type of charges if he were still alive. Him and McQueary are the only other two with "direct" knowledge, for whatever that might be worth.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:07 PM
(Reply to #5) #17
the unsilent ma...
the unsilent majority's picture
Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 172
I sure as hell hope so

I would argue that Paterno's knowledge was more intimate than Spanier et al.   

I don't necessarily like to hear about this story either, especially on my "escape" blog... However, perhaps that is precisely why it is, and continues to be, an appropriate post. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:54 PM
(Reply to #5) #18
WindyCityBlue
Joined: 07/23/2008
MGoPoints: 5518
This is an interesting thought

Paterno's death might be the only thing that saved whatever reputation he had left.  While he certainly was under intense scrutiny for his actions, he still had a sizable fanbase who were "behind" him.  However, if he had lived, imagine seeing Paterno being carted off in handcuffs or wearing prison orange. Very weird, but with that old man scowl he often had, he might of actually fit the part. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:05 PM
(Reply to #24) #19
justingoblue
justingoblue's picture
Joined: 11/16/2010
MGoPoints: 29685
I turned on ESPN...

a few minutes after I posted that, and they asked their legal analyst the same question. My guess from his tone of voice and his verbatim answer ("very difficult" to charge with conspiracy) makes me think that the police and the DA might have threatened Paterno with something to secure his testimony and cooperation, but they probably wouldn't have gone through the trouble to indict him with anything.

Then again, PA politics on the matter have to be incredibly messed up right now and anything might have happened. One point of interest is that he wasn't named a co-conspirator in the presentment, at least according to ESPN's guy (which he then implied might come up in the other trials).

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:15 PM
(Reply to #25) #20
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 34191
FWIW

My half-assed take is that a failure to report charge would have been the most plausible one for Paterno.  Conspiracy sounds like a stretch. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:20 PM
(Reply to #5) #21
Gwhizz
Gwhizz's picture
Joined: 03/22/2011
MGoPoints: 2100
Moot

point.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 2:56 PM
#22
jmdblue
jmdblue's picture
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 7934
Mildly off the subject, but

these charges tend to further make me believe that this whole unbelievable affair was best left to the legal system.  I shed no tears for PSU serving its severe probation, but I still wonder how it helps.  Paying a kid to play for your team (cash, tats or cars), keeping them in practice for too long, fudging their grades...none of this is illegal....that's why we need NCAA enforcement.  Abusing children falls way outside the bounds of what the clowns at the NCAA should be doling out punishment for and no NCAA punishment comes close to what Sandusky and his enablers should/will receive.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:00 PM
(Reply to #9) #23
JeepinBen
JeepinBen's picture
Joined: 01/22/2010
MGoPoints: 25475
Devil's Advocate

But what if the crimes were covered up to protect the football program? We've seen in the aftermath how tied into the university the football program was. If it was all about saving the football team/Joe Pa... then it was an NCAA issue.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:18 PM
(Reply to #11) #24
the unsilent ma...
the unsilent majority's picture
Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 172
Worse yet

There is a strong argument that the football program was used to enable the crimes, not wholly unlike Sandusky's "charitable" foundation.  After all, access to the program was one way that prick lured some of the children. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:28 PM
(Reply to #11) #25
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51905
I don't

think the crimes were covered up to protect the football program.  The initial non-disclosure was due to denial, actual disbelief, individual character deficits and institutional ineptitude.  The long-term non-disclosure was due to the participants understanding the seriousness of the initial non-disclosure and not wanting to face the personal and legal consequences of failing to disclose in the first place.  I can almost guarantee that protecting the football program was not part of the equation.  I don't know if Sandusky was close with any of these guys, thus, I could not argue if the argument was made that they were protecting Sandusky,  the acts had nothing to do with the football program.  Initial disclosure to appropriate authorties of what McQuerrry had witnessed would have resulted in short term bad ink for the program, but would not have evidenced any wrongdoing on behalf of the athletic department/football team.  Sandusky would have been fired, imprisoned, and Penn State would have taken the field the next year without any sanctions.  The "protecting the football program" angle does not make sense.  They were protecting their own asses.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:29 PM
(Reply to #16) #26
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51905
Not

flamebait.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:10 PM
(Reply to #16) #27
the unsilent ma...
the unsilent majority's picture
Joined: 09/22/2012
MGoPoints: 172
I don't know about that...

At some point there was a moment of reflection for all of those involved, whether immediately after the witnessed incidents or longer.  At that time, the witnesses, to a man, weighed all of the factors.  The only time that they would have feared for their own asses was the moment after they weighed the factors and decided against disclosure; only then did it become a "cover-up".  One of the likely factors in the determination against disclosure was the fate of the "program", because up until that point they were in no personal danger of trouble.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:11 PM
(Reply to #16) #28
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 34191
I agree that it doesn't make a lot of sense...

...but it seems to me to have been part of the motivation none-the-less.  A motivation doesn't have to make sense. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:26 PM
(Reply to #29) #29
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51905
I could

agree that these guys did not want to be "mixed up in anything" in a generic sense, but the idea that their love for Penn State football and so forth was a motivating factor I just don't buy.  Possibly fear that damage to the football team could damage them individually, I could buy that, but not in the "compettitive advantage" sense that is referenced below. 

I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt that not one Penn State recruit from 1998 - 2012 made their commitment to Penn State due to the lack of child sex abuse scandal.  Just does not have the same ring as a new Escalade or a bag of cash.  These men acted inexplicably and in a disgusting fashion, it just has nothing to do with Football, and there is nothing Emmert can say to convince me otherwise.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:00 PM
(Reply to #33) #30
Erik_in_Dayton
Erik_in_Dayton's picture
Joined: 12/03/2008
MGoPoints: 34191
Two points:

First, I'm not sure that Joe Paterno distinguished the well-being of Penn St. football from his own well-being, for good and for bad.  PSU's legacy was his legacy. 

Second, I just don't agree that you can say that recruits committed due to a lack of a child abuse scandal.  I agree that they presumably weren't thinking in those terms, but most people don't think about the absence of those things until that absence is gone, i.e., until the thing that was absent is present.  The association of "Penn St." and "child sex abuse" could have been damaging to recruiting, and what Paterno and co. did had a sort of logic to it if what you cared most about was protecting the football program, though (as I said above) it was a bad decision even if that was all that you cared about. 

I didn't neg you btw.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 8:14 PM
(Reply to #35) #31
ijohnb
Joined: 09/21/2009
MGoPoints: 51905
I

know you didn't.  I remember having a discussion on the board about this with you a few months ago.  I am not bothered at all by your position and the points that you make, and my own points are certainly debatable.  I just feel like the NCAA really did not consider what their involvement and the position they took meant for the future of their enforcement policies.  Their decision was an indictment of the entire college football culture, but they set an example against a program that was not an offender with regard to the actions they typically penalize, and with regard to actions that will in all likelihood never be duplicated.  These men were going to be arrested, imprisoned, and bankrupted regardless of what the NCAA did, and all the NCAA did was penalized MORE KIDS for the cowardly actions of a few men.  Upon actually unemotional scrunity, the NCAA's actions in this matter do not make sense.  (But it is not clear cut, and this entire event can and will be studied at high levels of organization management and interpersonal communication - it is truly the Challenger disaster of college athletics) 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 2nd, 2012 at 1:13 PM
(Reply to #11) #32
Blueph
Blueph's picture
Joined: 07/08/2008
MGoPoints: 12760
Response to Devil's Advocate

This was a particularly heinous crime, and covering it up almost certianly was done with the intention of protecting the football program.  But I can't think of another instance in which the NCAA punished a school for criminal behavior of its administrators/coaches when the behavior didn't directly relate to the school's sports teams.  The NCAA isn't punishing Arkansas for having its then-coach give a false report to police when he was motorcycling with his mistress, then trying to cover it up - so why here?  (note: not saying the crimes are comparable in significance)

I can't think of a single positive impact the NCAA's sanctions on Penn State will have.  Are they trying to show PSU and other schools that they shouldn't harbor and enable pedophiles?  I think they probably already got that message.  Unlike sanctions stemming from shady recruiting practices, these sanctions aren't necessary to send a message, because the courts have already done that.  At some point, the NCAA has to let the legal authorities deal with criminal behavior and focus its sanctions on the actual teams and competition.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:00 PM
(Reply to #9) #33
1464
1464's picture
Joined: 06/21/2010
MGoPoints: 36385
Sigh... PSU had an ungoing

Sigh...

PSU had an ungoing on-field advantage by not reporting this.  They put their football team ahead of innocent children in fear of the fallout of an investigation. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:05 PM
(Reply to #12) #34
jmdblue
jmdblue's picture
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 7934
Again...I don't shed tears re: the probation, but...

while they (undeniably and horribly) put football before abused children, the NCAA is not here to enforce laws that aren't on their books.  Coaches and administrators looked the other way while another coach committed crimes.  They should (and hopefully will) be punished for it.  If Sandusky was writing bad checks and Curly got wind of it and ignored it should the PSU football program pay a price?  No players took benefits or acted in a way that broke rules. 

I see and respect the opposing side of this argument, but I think the nature of the crimes skewed the viewpoints for many of us.

As for your "sigh..." enough already.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:11 PM
(Reply to #26) #35
jmdblue
jmdblue's picture
Joined: 12/01/2010
MGoPoints: 7934
In addition...

to inappropriately respond to my own post....besides the overriding concern for the victims of this monster....it is incredibly instructive to see how, even in a culture that would have to be considered a center of "manliness", how damned few brave people there really are.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 4:18 PM
(Reply to #12) #36
vablue
Joined: 11/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1923
All evidence to the contrary

It is hard to imagine they gained any advantage by not reporting it, and certainly not an "ongoing" advantage. Had they reported in 2001 or just stopped Sandusky from having any access to PSU facilities, teams, and players after the 1998 incident it would have almost certainly been a minor blip on the screen and may have been used as further evidence that PSU does things the right way no matter the consequence, their big selling point under Paterno.

As evidence we need look no further then Syracuse basketball. Their situation is very similar to what PSU would have looked like had they done the right thing. What has happened to Syracuse? A month or two of bad press, but no real downfall in recruiting and I don't think anyone expects them to suddenly fall of the face of the planet in terms of their on court performance.

Now that said, I have no problems with the sanctions. Ultimately the football team was used to help enable a child abuuser to gain access too young children and take advantage of them. The administration and head coach had some knowledge this was taking place. When your football program is being used as an access point for a child molester to gain access to young boys, the program should not just go on as usual. No other organization would be able to just move forward freely and the same should be true for a sports team.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:21 PM
(Reply to #31) #37
Mr Miggle
Mr Miggle's picture
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 31247
I think that you and many others

are making the wrong point. Rather than only consider what damage would have befallen their program by reporting Sandusky in 2001, think about what the cost to their program would have been if they did the right thing and reported what they knew in 2010 or at various points in between. While it's probably true that they gained little from the coverup initially, as time went on the cost of reporting was going up. They were no longer just avoiding bad publicity due to Sandusky's acts, but the fallout from their own inaction or coverup. During most of their coverup they would likely have perceived the advantage that the football program gained from not reporting was substantial. Of course, that was probably not their only motivation. Perhaps worse, they were also committed to continuing their coverup, even if they learned of new assaults.  

Syracuse is a poor comparison. The charges there always looked shaky and have been refuted. The school was never implicated in a coverup..There probably is no good example to use. That's a good thing, even though it makes our arguments more speculative.  

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 10:43 PM
(Reply to #37) #38
vablue
Joined: 11/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1923
I don't follow this logic at all

Why 2010? Paterno and company knew in 2001 and arguably in 1998. 2010 is really no different than 2011, which they are being punished for. And let's be really honest, while an extreme black mark, it did not affect the team or recruiting until the sanctions were handed down. I just don't see any evidence that they would have been worse on the field if this came out. And had they done the right thing when they first knew there clearly would have been no affect.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 2nd, 2012 at 9:29 AM
(Reply to #46) #39
Mr Miggle
Mr Miggle's picture
Joined: 10/07/2010
MGoPoints: 31247
several points

1) You are incorrect that it did not affect recruiting before the sanctions came down. Don't you remember all the complaining about Urban poaching their decommitments like Armani Reeves? Their 2012 class took a big hit.

2) For a program that heavily sold its tradition and pristine reputation in recruiting, it would be illogical for this scandal not to hurt. While their 2013 class was off to a strong start, that does not mean it had no effect. I would argue that replacing Paterno with a new, high energy coach gave their recruiting a big push. It was long overdue for football reasons and their recruiting should have been even better without the scandal.

3) You might notice that I talked about the damage they would perceive to be done to the program. I imagine that they feared the damage would have been worse than we might think now. Weren't many of us surprised at how well they recruited pre-sanctions? Similarly, while we look back and say nothing much would have happened if they had turned in Sandusky in 2001, they probably didn't see it that way. There would have been some difficult questions to answer about the access Sandusky was given after the 1998 allegations. It's very possible they knew more about Sandusky's history than has come out. Was he really there for 30+ years before his first offense?

4) Who is to say the NCAA wouldn't have acted even if PSU had belatedly reported Sandusky some time between 2001 and 2011?

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:42 PM
#40
treetown
Joined: 11/10/2010
MGoPoints: 2240
Worth tracking

I'm sure many people would like to put this whole Penn State episode away but it maybe still worth following even on this board because the outcome may affect how college athletics are overseen on all campuses.

Once what happened with college athletics was first the head coach's problem, then the athletic director's but it is clear now that everyone upto and including the president can be considered. The NCAA recently announced that they were extending the reach of penalties so that assistant coaches could no longer be the easy scapegoats for violations and be tossed in as a sacrificial lamb to halt an investigation - their head coaches and other oversight personnel would all share in the penalties.

No place has a monopoly on bad events or good events. But the places with few bad events usually acknowledge that they can occur and don't pretend they are impossible. That willingness to acknowledge and think about that possibility is the first important step in ensuring that it won't happen.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:48 PM
#41
LSAClassOf2000
LSAClassOf2000's picture
Joined: 01/07/2011
MGoPoints: 81403
The Same Guy...

"The only downside for us is if the message isn't `heard' and acted upon, and we then become vulnerable for not having reported it," Spanier wrote in 2001. "The approach you outline is humane and a reasonable way to proceed."

Wow. You would never know that this is the same Graham Spanier who was a founding editor of the "Journal Of Family Issues" and, until recent events, a respected family therapist. When Spanier's involvement in the coverup was made known, it just amazed me that a man whose work in academia included finding ways to help the very people he would aid in coldly hurting could abandon his reputation so nonchalantly in these e-mails. That being said, this seems to indicate more evidence of a "cult of personality" around that program, if even people in a position to fire and report those involved were too afraid to proactively stop it then. By doing nothing, he helped a predator destroy more lives.  

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:48 PM
(Reply to #20) #42
OmarDontScare
OmarDontScare's picture
Joined: 08/13/2010
MGoPoints: 1800
The fact that Spaniers

The fact that Spaniers background is in Family Counseling is just unfathomable. Yet, here we are.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 3:53 PM
#43
Indiana Blue
Indiana Blue's picture
Joined: 09/19/2010
MGoPoints: 4915
Just needs an OT modifier ...

I thought it was somehow going to contain something to do with U of M ... not - thank god.

Go Blue!

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 5:39 PM
#44
Wendyk5
Wendyk5's picture
Joined: 11/20/2008
MGoPoints: 16680
And didn't he, not a month

And didn't he, not a month ago, come out publicly on ESPN or ABC and deny any involvement or wrong-doing? That email is damning - he must have known it was out there. It's hard to fathom how he - or any guilty person for that matter - can continually publicly deny their guilt. It's pretty shameful that Sandusky is appealing his verdict as well,  costing his victims more pain and the taxpayers' of his state money. The human condition is confounding. 

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 6:32 PM
#45
VAWolverine
Joined: 11/06/2008
MGoPoints: 3665
The Sports Illustrated...

cover jinx bit PSU in the ass again today before I even received the magazine in the mail this evening.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 1st, 2012 at 8:49 PM
#46
Ernis
Ernis's picture
Joined: 09/23/2008
MGoPoints: 2554
Irreverence

 

But seriously. Make lamb chops out of those bastards.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
November 2nd, 2012 at 2:43 PM
#47
French West Indian
French West Indian's picture
Joined: 12/28/2011
MGoPoints: 1840
Anybody...

...that finds the Penn State scandal interesting should really take a look at the Franklin scandal in Nebraska.  I just finished reading Nick Bryant's book, The Franklin Scandal:  A Story of Powerbrokers, Child Abuse & Betrayal and it has some mind-blowing stuff that will really cause you to look at the Penn State ordeal from some different angles.

I'm not defending Spanier but a statement like this, for example...

"These charges are the work of a vindictive and politically motivated governor working through an unelected attorney general ... whom he appointed to do his bidding," the four defense lawyers wrote."

...take on a different light after you've learned a bit about how these cover-ups work.

Oh, and there is also an unaired Discovery channel documentary film about the Franklin scandal for those who'd rather watch TV than read a book.  Here's a link to it on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asvl6kO1Vo8

At any rate, I think that there is probably a lot more going on with the Penn State scandal than most people in the general public realize and it really in the interest of every decent citizen to keep pursing the truth here.

Top
  • Login or register to post comments
Powered by Drupal, an open source content management system
Theme provided by Roopletheme; sidebars adapted from Chris Murphy.