News chimes in with facts, research... Detroit newspaper community stunned
I didn't see a separate thread for the article in the News by Angelique reacting to all this, so here it is:
http://www.detnews.com/article/20090830/SPORTS0201/908300317/Michigan-p…
Specific quote that bodes okay for us:
'Before the NCAA can begin an investigation into any violation, there is a process that initiates with the school conducting its own investigation. The school then takes it to the conference level and then, if warranted, the NCAA becomes involved.
While the NCAA is aware of the Detroit Free Press report, NCAA spokesman Chuck Wynne said Sunday it would be premature to comment on the potential ramifications for Michigan's football program.
"We don't comment on any current, pending or potential investigations," Wynne said. "The reason we have these restrictions on hours is because it's a student well-being issue. They need to have time to go to class, to practice and time to be students." '
August 30th, 2009 at 6:05 PM ^
thanks for the link.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:08 PM ^
"Former players have chosen thus far not to speak on the record for fear, they said, of ramifications. "
This still makes no sense to me. What possible ramifications could there be for FORMER players???
August 30th, 2009 at 6:18 PM ^
Flash forward to 2033, the 25th reunion of the worst Michigan team ever...or maybe they won't be allowed to come back and train with Barwis.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:21 PM ^
they'd lose out on their honorary captain status.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:27 PM ^
Few want to look like guy who rats out his alma mater.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:33 PM ^
I would hope that fewer would want to be the one that actually ratted out their alma mater.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:45 PM ^
I have an easy fix for those players who don't want to look like the guy who rats out his Alma mater, don't rat out your Alma mater! Just follow these two steps:
1. Don't rat out your Alma mater.
2. Repeat step 1 as necessary.
Even Mcfarlin could do that.
August 30th, 2009 at 7:04 PM ^
Who's this McFarling everyone is talking about?
August 30th, 2009 at 7:39 PM ^
I'm not sure if you're being serious, but searching in the search box will give you searchy type answers.
But seriously, anybody want to make the Mgoblog version of Let Me Google that for you?
August 30th, 2009 at 10:58 PM ^
They are cowards. Anyone who is not willing to put their name to accusations can not be taken seriously.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:09 PM ^
"I was a senior, and I really thought, 'Maybe this is how it's supposed to be -- maybe this is what it takes to win.' So I didn't complain. I just think they came in last year with the attitude that we had to be tough. I actually heard it got a little easier this year."
August 30th, 2009 at 6:14 PM ^
so he's saying that it was the same way under Carr....while the Freep article made it sounds like it was only under RR. It just sounds like a few disgruntled kids trying to get back at the school/RR.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:15 PM ^
I think your quote would correspond to a self investigation that went to the point of self reporting a violation.
I think the NCAA can run their own investigation whenever they want on anything they want. Like the Alabama book dealings, that wasn't self reported was it?
August 30th, 2009 at 6:44 PM ^
I will crawl around the net to try to confirm this, but I thought there was an Alabama investigation first.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:17 PM ^
"'As much as I want to say (Rodriguez) is the only one (to surpass the 20-hour rule) and to say he's the worst, I can't,' the player said. 'I'm sure that happens at every school. It is what it is.'"
It seems this person obviously did not like Rodriguez.
August 30th, 2009 at 7:04 PM ^
when I read that, "'As much as I want to say''', nope can't tell your a little peeved at RR.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:37 PM ^
This reminds me very much of the "Spygate" scandal that the Patriots went through two years ago. Much was made about a behind-the-scene practice that almost every team admitted to doing.
I think we're gonna be the whipping boys of this issue for the media and NCAA, who are both trying to make an example of someone-- at least until this is proven wrong.
August 30th, 2009 at 6:59 PM ^
of kick them when their down. Had M gone the other way last year (9-3), these kids most likely would have kept this shit to themselves.
The negative effect of this though is a little concerning. I just hope for the best possible outcome, because it is out of our hands.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:08 PM ^
Notice how nowhere in that article does it say that the allegations are not true.
Justifying breaking the rules because "everybody else does it" does not make breaking said rules the right thing to do. The rules are in place for a reason, and just because there is an expectation that the NCAA will not punish a program for breaking them doesn't mean it's OK to break them.
When are we going to stop blaming the Free Press for uncovering what seems to be true, and start admitting that Michigan broke the rules? We're Michigan. We should be above cutting corners to be successful.
I realize I'm probably in the minority on this around here, as it seems fairly fashionable to hate on the Freep, Rosenberg, Snyder, etc. etc., but if Angelique Chengelis filed a story that essentially amounts to corroboration with excuses, I'm inclined to believe the allegations are with merit.
If you believe it is OK for Michigan to do this kind of stuff because everyone else does it, I'd argue that you really have no idea what Michigan tradition really means. Our tradition is built on doing things the right way. I'm sick and tired of seeing excuses being made for ignoring NCAA guidelines because we want to be "competitive" or "winners" or any of that. We're more likely to be "winners" going 0-12 adhering to every NCAA guideline than we are going 12-0 by cutting corners. I'm sorry, I will not stand for my University's football team making excuses for cheating under the guise that it's what we need to do to be "competitive" or "modern." Our football program owes more to our University than that.
August 30th, 2009 at 8:45 PM ^
Just maybe, it doesn't say the allegations aren't true because they are withholding indictment until an official investigation report (worthy of reporting)is released.
If Michigan were to "win" and go 0-12 rather than "compete" you will soon find them on Brown and Princeton's schedule or worse, in pages of history next to Chicago...
August 30th, 2009 at 8:47 PM ^
I think it's just the lack of detail in the reporting on the Freep's part. We know the official limit is 20 hours, but there are so many things that don't count towards the limit (taping up, rehab, film study, meals). Spend an hour getting ready, 4 hours of practice, an hour showering, hour at dinner, two hours of film study and that's already a 9 hour day without any down time in between.
I don't think there's anyone in the world who believes we're under 20 hours when those things are taken into consideration, but the Free Press report doesn't provide the detail we need to know if Michigan broke the rules (admittedly that's a pretty herculean task to get a detailed minute by minute breakdown of exactly what the players do).
I realize the 'Freep has a conspiracy against us' crowd seems to be drowning out some voices, but that's my take on the backlash.
August 30th, 2009 at 9:28 PM ^
You do realize that this happened under Carr as well? Henne admitted as much earlier today. It's like staying with your rank leaders to practice after rehearsal. You don't have to do it, but if you want to make block, you do.
August 30th, 2009 at 10:05 PM ^
According to what has been written, no, these violations did not happen under Carr. Players apparently felt that things like optional summer workouts actually were optional, attendance wasn't taken, and players weren't punished for not attending. People might think the phrase "practice is optional, but so is playing time" is cute, but it can easily be taken to be a threat that you'll be benched if you don't show up, which is a clear NCAA violation.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:19 PM ^
You didn't read what Henne said or you are actively ignoring reality. Football at the level of Michigan is a business. Stop pretending that this is 1970 and more than 3 or 4 of these players would be at Michigan if it weren't for football. Frankly, it's getting annoying as shit.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:40 PM ^
Was he obligated to be there by coaches?
"Nah," Henne said. "That’s the players."
Pretty sure I read that part, and I'm pretty sure that's the key difference between NCAA violation and not-NCAA violation.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:50 PM ^
Yup, just like everything we've heard so far today. It's all optional. Playing time was optional under Carr as well. Do you remember all the random games missed by players that would otherwise start or give significant contributions under Carr? It happened then too. This has happened as long as a coach realized the NCAA rule severely limits the players ability to develop into a winning team.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:02 AM ^
You really think Lloyd was pulling players out of games because they skipped optional practice? If you asked somebody to give a list of reasons Lloyd might have kept a starter out of a game before this blowup, I don't think "missing optional practice" would be very high on anybody's list. Usually that was reserved for things like skipping class.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:43 AM ^
You're putting the Lloyd on a pedestal. Do you really honestly think this stuff wasn't going on two years ago?
August 30th, 2009 at 8:57 PM ^
Brodie is officially the fun police
August 30th, 2009 at 10:41 PM ^
I'm sure these allegations will prove to be untrue. As far as Michigan cheating or breaking the rules, I think you are way off here. RichRod and his staff have been coaching DI football for years. Do you think they don't know the rules? I think the players, the public, and the press don't know the rules. This coaching staff and U of M compliance staff probably know the rules better than any in the NCAA. They script practices, summer workouts, Sunday workouts all to be compliant with the NCAA. Sure they are probably as crafty as any highly paid defense attorney would be in any situation to keep their client from being incarcerated, using every technicality possible, but I bet it is all within the rules.
If Michigan were, as you say, cheating or breaking the rules, where are the big ten championships at? Where are the victories over that team from down in Ohio? Where are the BCS bowl games?
I'm sorry to say to all you RichRod haters out there, this football program is on the right path. Bo was a great man. But the good ol'boys network is now gone. The game has changed and so must we. To carry on the tradition of winning, of championships, of the Big House, of a national power, a prestigious university and producer of great young men and women that represent it, we have to change.
Have faith, be ALL IN FOR MICHIGAN.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:14 PM ^
great headline.
August 30th, 2009 at 11:17 PM ^
Even though you just had to post this.
"If Michigan were, as you say, cheating or breaking the rules, where are the big ten championships at? Where are the victories over that team from down in Ohio? Where are the BCS bowl games?"
Please don't remind me, my head is spinning enough from the last 24 hours.